Manchester United

[Conroy92]

I missed time for the edit but I'll add the whole Ronaldo debacle was only born out of fear of city getting him. And that turned into a massive back fire.

[JohnMac]

SAF departed leaving the team as Champions again but that squad was creaking a bit. Since then the Managerial carousel has attempted to put their stamp on things with most crumbling under pressure.

The trend has been constant as well, buy a really decent player and turn him into an average one. Maybe the attraction of playing becomes less when you have been given an absolute guaranteed fortune regardless of playing and winning.

[CalamityClaret]

Fergie set up the youth system that brought them together and brought them along.

A small part might be fortune but mostly it was hard work and judgement - much of it directly attributable to Fergie. Not only did he set up the scouting network, he also set up the coaching teams and instilled the culture of professionalism and the work ethic that turned these promising youngsters into world beaters.

Liverpool arguably had just as talented youngsters in the likes of McManaman, Carragher, Redknapp, Fowler, Gerrard and Owen.

One side won zero PL titles, one side hoovered them up.

It wasn't luck.

I wasn't aware he set up the the youth team but no one can tell me it wasn't luck that all those lads were in the same youth year. Please don't think i'm knocking him as a manager but that was a result. I haven't checked but the Liverpool players you mentioned were years apart I think. That said great manager

[Rowls]

I wasn't aware he set up the the youth team but no one can tell me it wasn't luck that all those lads were in the same youth year. Please don't think i'm knocking him as a manager but that was a result. I haven't checked but the Liverpool players you mentioned were years apart I think. That said great manager

Yeah I know what you're saying and I see your pov. Certainly those players came through in a clump and it was perhaps fortune or a statistical fluke they came through together.

I'm not sure of the details but I'm confident Fergie did a root & branch reform of their youth system when he first arrived and the class of 92 was his work bearing fruit.

Those lads all fed off each other - they had a work ethic and commitment that drove them forward. We could debate all day as to what extent Fergie was lucky to have them and how much their development was down to what he instilled in those players and the wider culture in the club.

A few things stand out to me:

Gary Neville very deliberately and consciously decided to abandon his bury school friends so that he wouldn't be exposed to beer, nightclubs and other temptations. I think Beckham did the same when he moved up from London.

They players had the beer pumps removed from the players bar. They were Fergie's kids through and through.

Comparé and contrast to Liverpool's "slice boys"!

Yeah, it will always be unprovable either way and it isn't one or the other but if I had pick "lucky" or "earned" I'd say Fergie "earned" his luck with this group of players. He sculpted them.

[karatekid]

Saw this on bbc sport .

Ratcliffe's Ineos group completed a deal worth about $1.6bn (£1.25bn) for a stake in Manchester United in February 2024.

Ineos then took over football operations at Old Trafford and quickly began a restructure with Ashworth appointed sporting director, Berrada as chief executive and Jason Wilcox as technical director.
In June, Ineos opted to keep Ten Hag as manager but then sacked him and his coaching staff, at a cost of £14.5m.

United paid Sporting £11m to bring in coach Ruben Amorim as Ten Hag's replacement in November, and they also paid £4.1m to hire and then fire Ashworth.

So how are they saving money?

Free lunches will no longer be provided for staff at Old Trafford, saving more than £1m a year, while the catering arrangements at Carrington will be unchanged for the remainder of the season.

[ecc]

Making staff redundant is sick for a club like that. Just advoiding signing one players on inflated wages would have done the job.

[ecc]

Fergie set up the youth system that brought them together and brought them along.

A small part might be fortune but mostly it was hard work and judgement - much of it directly attributable to Fergie. Not only did he set up the scouting network, he also set up the coaching teams and instilled the culture of professionalism and the work ethic that turned these promising youngsters into world beaters.

Liverpool arguably had just as talented youngsters in the likes of McManaman, Carragher, Redknapp, Fowler, Gerrard and Owen.

One side won zero PL titles, one side hoovered them up.

It wasn't luck.

Did they not have a youth system prior to Ferguson?

[IanMcL]

Did they not have a youth system prior to Ferguson?

Matt Busby will be turning in his grave!

Busby Babes says it all.

[Milltown1882]

Did they not have a youth system prior to Ferguson?

They played 4,253 consecutive first-team games since October 1937 with a graduate from their academy in the squad so Ferguson must be knocking on a bit now.

[GetIntoEm]

I'm sure they'll cope without free lunches

[Rowls]

Did they not have a youth system prior to Ferguson?

The point isn't "there was nothing before Fergie".
The point is that he improved it and created the mindset that made the Manyoo setup the best in the country.

Before Fergie:

Russell Beardsmore
Mark Hughes
Mark Robins
Scott McGarvey
etc.

After Fergie:

Ryan Giggs
Gary Neville
David Beckham
Paul Scholes
Nicky Butt
Phil Neville
Wes Brown
John O'Shea
Darren Fletcher
Danny Welbeck
Marcus Rashford
Mason Greenwood

[Rowls]

O'Farrell's Fledglings?

McGuinness's McMinions?

Sexton's little'uns?

Docherty's Ducklings?

Atkinson's Not kin sons?

Nope.

[Rowls]

Bobby Charlton touching on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOjQhIs ... OfFootball

[houseboy]

If it’s entitled fans you’re after, you’re looking at the wrong Manc club.

Disagree with this really. It’s true that since the money came in from oil they have acquired a few hangers on but historically they have always been a pretty down to earth bunch. Always thought City fans had a great sense of humour and the ability to laugh at themselves. And the fans never deserted them in the old third division days. It’s a shame that they got the money and became corrupt. If I were a Manc I’ve always said I’d be a City fan.

[mdd2]

Busby created a team as capable as Fergie but in a different era.
Manchester United were chasing a hat-trick of league championships in the 57-58 season and were second to Wolves at the time of the air crash, but they dropped 21 points in 14 matches (max 28pts) after the Munich crash and finished 21 points behind the champions Wolves. It took Busby 5 years to get a trophy after Munich and then they won the league again in 65 and 67 getting the European Cup in 1968 retiring the following year, although he was back briefly in the 70-71 season from December until season end.
Who knows what might have been in the absence of that disaster which took out 10 players, 8 fatalities and 2 who never played again (Jackie Blanchflower and Johnny Berry).

[JohnMac]

So many of their signings have failed to adapt to the Premier League or the pressure of Manchester United.

Mason Mount regardless of injury has been like a fish out of water. Hjoiland looks like a bottom end Championship player and no sign of him improving.

Getting rid of Scott McTominay, a Graduate of their Academy whilst retaining players like Casemiro and Eriksen tells me it's name before performance at Old Trafford.

As for the new Manager, he seems humble enough but really isn't showing himself in a good light with his refusal to adapt. His 'My way or No way' isn't going to work and alienating players won't help.

Bruno actually cares it seems but I'm not convinced there is much dressing room cohesion.

[Clovius Boofus]

Disagree with this really. It’s true that since the money came in from oil they have acquired a few hangers on but historically they have always been a pretty down to earth bunch. Always thought City fans had a great sense of humour and the ability to laugh at themselves. And the fans never deserted them in the old third division days. It’s a shame that they got the money and became corrupt. If I were a Manc I’ve always said I’d be a City fan.

Same here.

[Taffy on the wing]

So many of their signings have failed to adapt to the Premier League or the pressure of Manchester United.

Mason Mount regardless of injury has been like a fish out of water. Hjoiland looks like a bottom end Championship player and no sign of him improving.

Getting rid of Scott McTominay, a Graduate of their Academy whilst retaining players like Casemiro and Eriksen tells me it's name before performance at Old Trafford.

As for the new Manager, he seems humble enough but really isn't showing himself in a good light with his refusal to adapt. His 'My way or No way' isn't going to work and alienating players won't help.

Bruno actually cares it seems but I'm not convinced there is much dressing room cohesion.

The McTominay one was madness...good player who clearly cared & was manure through & through.
Always thought they looked better when he was playing.

[karatekid]

Some of their star signings getting grief:

Ratcliffe lamented the fact the club still had payments owed on players signed before he took control, citing what he said was a £17m payment still to be made for Sancho this summer.
The England winger was a £73m signing from Borussia Dortmund in 2021 but returned to the German club on loan after falling out with then-United boss Ten Hag and was loaned to Chelsea at the start of the current season.
"If you look at the players we are buying this summer, that we didn't buy, we're buying Antony, we're buying Casemiro, we're buying Onana, we're buying Hojlund, we're buying Sancho. These are all things from the past, whether we like it or not, we've inherited those things and have to sort that out.
"For Sancho, who now plays for Chelsea and we pay half his wages, we're paying £17m to buy him in the summer."
Brazil winger Antony is another on loan, at Spanish club Real Betis, after struggling at Old Trafford following an £81.5m move from Ajax.
Compatriot Casemiro arrived in 2022 in a £70m deal, while Denmark striker Hojlund arrived the following year for £72m.
Cameroon international Onana joined the club in the same summer for £47.2m.
When asked whether he was suggesting those players were not good enough for Manchester United, he said: "Some are not good enough and some probably are overpaid, but for us to mould the squad that we are fully responsible for, and accountable for, will take time.
"We've got this period of transformation where we move from the past to the future.

[claret wizard]

So funny to see these little meltdowns coming out into the open. I mean, it’s like he knows nothing about running a football club. There’s only one reason Utd are in the financial situation they are, it’s the hundreds of millions in interest payments. All those decisions being made by his joint owners (who incidentally will have approved the purchase payment structures of the players he mentions). Did he even do any due diligence? Looks like United only got a bleating board member.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Seems like a car crash of an interview.

[dougcollins]

Saw this on bbc sport .



Ineos then took over football operations at Old Trafford and quickly began a restructure with Ashworth appointed sporting director, Berrada as chief executive and Jason Wilcox as technical director.
In June, Ineos opted to keep Ten Hag as manager but then sacked him and his coaching staff, at a cost of £14.5m.

Jason Wilcox as in ex-b@st@rd Jason Wilcox?