O/T........EVs

[Goddy]

Now I know this is a football forum, so apologies for the off-topic, but I'm after a bit of (relatively, I hope) unbiased thoughts on EVs.

Any ideas about boring things like range (battery life), when the battery degrades over time - which I assume it does - can you change/update/upgrade it, any concerns about safety issues, how best to fund getting one (taking into consideration depreciation, reliability, ongoing costs (such as servicing etc), as well as the usual stuff about which is the best of them to buy (again, I'm hoping for some unbiased comments ideally.

Any thoughts welcome and thanks, in advance.

[dougcollins]

I trust they're going to get cheaper when we're all forced to buy one.

Though, undoubtedly, it'll go the other way.

[Plissken]

Get a home charger and it is vastly cheaper (I just did 180 miles over the weekend and charged at home - £5.66 for a 70% top up). Battery life is not a concern. Servicing costs are cheaper, much fewer moving parts. Driving it really easy, especially with one pedal driving and regen braking, especially around town.

Range anxiety is a thing you get over very quickly and is usually a thing pushed by people who have no clue. Last time this came up on UTC, one bloke insisted he needed to be able to drive from Burnley to Bournemouth and back without stopping for food or the loo. For those who live in the real world, most journeys are of a few miles so it is much more efficient and cheaper.

Charging infrastructure is reliable, easy to find and widespread. Again, ignore the nay-sayers. A home charger is absolutely the way to go if you can though because it is so much cheaper.

[gandhisflipflop]

Having spoken with companies such as Shell about EV over recent years, I’d advise if you are going to get one, go for a fully electric one and not a hybrid which are little more than a marketing fad in my opinion.

I personally won’t be getting one and will be holding onto my petrol for as long as possible.

[Bow]

I test drove one of the new Polestar 4s last week, and it is quite incredible. I haven’t made up my mind between that and the Audi etron GT yet, but I’ll be ordering one of them.

I’m a proponent of leasing cars so long term issues aren’t on my radar. Electric cars do feel more like pieces of tech than they do traditional cars - I’m not sure I’d want to buy an electric car with the view of driving it for 15+ years. Mind you I’d say the same about ICE cars too.

[Caballo]

It's a minefield, is the short answer.
If you can't fit a charger at home and aren't wedded to single handidly saving the planet then they're a none starter. Conversley, if you travel a 100 miles a day, are home every night to charge and brave enough to buy 2nd hand, you're quids in.

[morninbob]

Beware, the range halves when it's cold.

[Leon_C]

Beware, the range halves when it's cold.

In the interest of science, the range is likely to dip 10-20% when the ambient temperature is very cold.
Other factors which affect range are, of course, driving style (enjoying "spirited driving" can zap range) and terrain (hills.)
Large wheels/rolling resistance also reduce range of vehicles, like-for-like.

Note: You can also request your EV to be nice and toastie warm when you set off. You can bin that ice-scraper.

[Plissken]

Beware, the range halves when it's cold.

Not true in the slightest.

[Selby Claret]

Leased a 74 plate Ford Explorer in Nov - unreal tech - £500 a month
EV charger and tariff with British Gas - free ev charging for a year and 70% (ish) off all electric in the house 0000-0700 (night time dishwasher a must)
Range about 275 miles so far - bought a 3-pin charger too for emergencies and visiting the in-laws (charges about 2% an hour)
Be mindful that for new vehicles I think road tax is getting hiked in Apr 25 for vehicles above a certain list price
Working out so far to be approx £150 saving in fuel per 1000 miles if charging at home compared with previous 1.2l petrol car (that's not with the free charging we are currently getting - that would be with a normal overnight charge which we will face from Nov 25)

NB to charge at home you need a smart electricity meter

[Plissken]

Oh and another bit of advice. If someone says something like “when we’re all forced to buy one” or “wedded to saving the planet”, it’s a fairly good indicator that that person can be ignored.

[Burnleyareback2]

I have decided to lease the last couple of cars as the 2nd hand market is so expensive, especially for petrol cars.

I take delivery next week of my first EV, the spec and power would likely of been 50% higher on a petrol car. It may also depreciate faster than petrol but as it’s leased that’s not my issue.

Charger being fitted next week at home. Car seems like great value and there appears to be lots of great lease deals out there.

Good luck with what you decide.

[mdd2]

Beware, the range halves when it's cold.

Bet it’s not brilliant in a jam in summer with the air con on either

[Sheedyclaret]

We had a hybrid and returned it a few years back sticking to petrol for now

Notice the car tax is going up on EV in some case higher the petrol vehicles another government scam

[mdd2]

I have a friend who goes to South of France in an electric car
Charged once before the ferry and twice in France I
on the way down. Twice again coming back and again in UK. But he did about 1400 miles

[CrosspoolClarets]

Love my Tesla 3 4WD and have for over 5 years now. I’ve been to Lands End in it and nearly to John O Groats. The car can navigate to superchargers along my route, tell me ‘live’ while driving how many stalls are currently free, and precondition the battery for charging while driving.

I got 20% immediate tax deduction when buying it, have saved loads on petrol since, and have had few maintenance costs apart from new tyres.

The only thing I would say is that when it comes to the lesser used family 2nd car, the business case goes a bit wonky, because 2nd cars do far less miles. So when the clowns try to force us to buy an EV for a 2nd car, that will prove very expensive.

[Stproc]

I bought a second hand Kona in January so I’m still in the learning phase. Driving it is easy, comfortable & nice & quiet. I’m still in the rang3 anxiety stage which makes me nervous about how many miles are left & battery %s but this is easing now as I’m finding it doesn’t affect real world driving. I’ve ordered a home charger but I’m currently charging up from a 3 pin plug which I’ve set to only charge during economy hours and it puts about 50 miles a night into the batteries.
So far, everything that is supposedly public knowledge has been shown to be just complete twaddle peddled by people who don’t like EVs. Unless you’re going to be driving 200+ most days then EVs are the best solution. Costs are coming down on the used market now, I’ve just paid £18k for a 2yo car with 10k on the clock & it’s packed with features

[Oshkoshclaret]

I've had a Tesla with home charging for the past 3 months and it's been a serious quality of life upgrade. Never going back.

[ClaretDiver]

We leased a VW Id3 for the wife on an NHS scheme. We also have a diesel XTrail. We have a very good ev tariff for electric and a home charger. Only once had to charge it at a station. The wife did 14000 miles last year and the cost of the electric to run that was £452….

Overall happy with the car, range of 212 miles on full charge.

Slightly less in winter with heaters etc going but that is to be expected.

[beddie]

I’d lease one, if the battery plays silly beggers then you’d need a mortgage to replace it. Go for the biggest kWh you can afford. A relative recently took delivery of a new Audi etron Q6. It’s a beast. I lifted the bonnet and said to him “ I don’t know if you’re aware but some buggers nicked the engine”

[Bosscat]

I run a Citroen EC4 (2021 vintage) thats done now 11000 miles, when new full charge (50kw battery) 220 mile range ... (realistically 180 miles Summer 150 miles Winter) ... It costs £00.1165p to charge per kwh overnight at home on our OHME Home pro charger.

Also we have a 2023 Citroen C5 Aircross PHEV that has a range of 25+ miles on EV only. This we use for longer journeys. Also I use for going to Burnley for the matches in Hybrid mode it does 130+ mpg and costs £1.50 to charge overnight.

Never used a public charger as we only use the EC4 for local stuff etc.

[PremierLeagueClass]

Get a home charger and it is vastly cheaper (I just did 180 miles over the weekend and charged at home - £5.66 for a 70% top up). Battery life is not a concern. Servicing costs are cheaper, much fewer moving parts. Driving it really easy, especially with one pedal driving and regen braking, especially around town.

Range anxiety is a thing you get over very quickly and is usually a thing pushed by people who have no clue. Last time this came up on UTC, one bloke insisted he needed to be able to drive from Burnley to Bournemouth and back without stopping for food or the loo. For those who live in the real world, most journeys are of a few miles so it is much more efficient and cheaper.

Charging infrastructure is reliable, easy to find and widespread. Again, ignore the nay-sayers. A home charger is absolutely the way to go if you can though because it is so much cheaper.

I’d advise anyone actually here for a sensible answer rather than as a means to push their anti-electric agenda to read this post. Having gone to an electric car 12 months ago it’s bang on the money.

It really is scary the level of misinformation out there.

[Plissken]

Bet it’s not brilliant in a jam in summer with the air con on either

Well, it's not sitting there wasting petrol of an idling engine to power the AC, nor does the EV power drop when the AC is on.

[Belial]

I love big engine cars, but I saw a an i4 M50 around a year ago for a good deal so took a punt. It has been spot on...has some serious power and torque and the handling for a 2 tonne car is amazing. It all depends what you want tho - there are cheaper EVs like the MG's around that are supposedly good value if you aren't as bothered about the drivability and finishes etc.. Tesla's, as much as some take the p1ss out of the drivers of them, are very good cars.

I charge at home and only very occasionally have had to use public chargers. I did have one day where I went to 3 different ones and all either failed to work or were out of order but the 4th one I found was fine Range in summer was around 285 miles - in coldest winter it's about 210 (so ignore the comments about it reducing by 50%). Also ignore the scaremongering of the fans using up all your power... having the fan all the way on a longer journey probably uses up 3-4% so just factor that in when you are charging.

I wouldn't buy new either - the 1st year has a huge depreciation, more so than an ICE.

[Plissken]

I bought a second hand Kona in January so I’m still in the learning phase. Driving it is easy, comfortable & nice & quiet. I’m still in the rang3 anxiety stage which makes me nervous about how many miles are left & battery %s but this is easing now as I’m finding it doesn’t affect real world driving. I’ve ordered a home charger but I’m currently charging up from a 3 pin plug which I’ve set to only charge during economy hours and it puts about 50 miles a night into the batteries.

With you on this, but I have a tip for when you get the home charger. If you are at a public charger, only fill up with what you need to get you home and then do the rest on the home charger.

It's obviously cheaper but many people - including myself for a while - was in the mindset of petrol fillups. It takes no real extra time to fill a petrol tank up to full than to half, even if you only need half. I was doing the same with the electric chargers.

Obviously charging takes longer the more you put into it, so reducing that time is the goal. If you have 20% charge and need 30% to get home, then charge to 40-45% in ten minutes and top up at home. Don't plug in and go to 80% because you don't need to, it takes longer and it costs you more.

Basically charge to what you need, not what you can - which is the opposite of ICE.

[Goddy]

Can I just thank everyone for your input here. As PremierLeagueClass says, there's so much misinformation out there it's good to get the views of everyone who has practical experience of EVs (both positives and negatives).

Plissken - thanks to you in particular for your (what seem to me) sound and considered thoughts/experience.

I like the look of the Polestar 4 (although the 'no rear window' thing seems a bit weird) or the Audi A6 Avant e-tron. Also reckon I'll look at leasing (which I've never done before but need to start looking at the whole thing as an annual cost of running a car rather than not owning (a depreciating) asset).

Thanks again, everyone for your thoughts!

[Plissken]

You can arrange a Polestar test drive online and do it from their space at the Trafford Centre. I think they may even bring it to you, can't remember. (I have a Polestar 2, which I love. Definitely interested in a 4 at some point.)

[Caballo]

Oh and another bit of advice. If someone says something like “when we’re all forced to buy one” or “wedded to saving the planet”, it’s a fairly good indicator that that person can be ignored.

Wedded to saving the planet was said by me Plissken, the wife's got a leaf and I've just excahnged my Merc hybrid for a used Polestar! I think that qualifies me to have an opinion.

[MarkGreen]

I've had a Tesla with home charging for the past 3 months and it's been a serious quality of life upgrade. Never going back.

I am exactly the same, albeit 2 months.

I got a Model 3 RWD from the Tesla certified pre-owned center in Manchester. It is in mint condition and only costs me £330 a month. - The new garage in Colne has 8 Tesla super charges now too, for those who are local and don't have the luxury of home charging.

£2.20 to charge from around 5% to 80% using Octopus 0.07pkwh EV tariff. That gets me around 190 miles with current weather conditions.

[Burnley1989]

Beware, the range halves when it's cold.

Mine loses about 60 miles, so goes from 230ish to 170ish (motorways)

I'm used to mine now, nice to drive but for someone who drives 30k miles a year and not a Tesla driver, charging can be a pain in the arse and expensive.

I was driving BMWs before this though, so I've saved a bomb in company car tax

[Bosscat]

Beware, the range halves when it's cold.

No it doesn't ... not in mine ...

[enduroclaret]

My work van is an electric Vito. I get paid by the hour, so I’m paid whilst I charge. On a 85% charge I get 140 miles (160 in summer) one day this week I went from home (Knutsford) to Southport, Liverpool, Chester and Milton Keynes. I charged up 5 times.
Remember that you don’t want to be left stranded with no charge, so 160 mile range is in reality 120 miles max. You need at least 40 miles of range left, chargers are often faulty or busy so you’ll need to have some range left.
A home charger is great if you run a car with a regular commute…..but when you have to rely on public chargers it can be a
ball-ache

[Leon_C]

The physical sensation of EV acceleration can also be factored in.
The 0-60 of my current and past EVs, plus pretty much every one I've ever been in, is enough to put a smile on my face.

[Darthlaw]

Had a Tesla model3 LR from 2020 - November last year. Loved the car and never had any mechanical issues in the 70k miles I did in it. On the MOT the only issues were brake corrosion as I used regen braking to slow the car 90% of the time. Build quality not great, sadly, on that model year which (comically) even involved the paint falling off the sills and tailgate. Tesla repaired this at no cost though.

Battery probably degraded by 10% in the time I had it and in the cold I would probably lose 25% range maximum.

I've now moved to a BYD Seal and, aside the less intuitive software, think it's streets ahead of my Tesla. Range is longer, performance faster and drives much more like a European premium brand vehicle.

As has been said above, once you get your head around the range and planning your charging, you'll never look back.

[Stproc]

Beware, the range halves when it's cold.

Excellent mine will do over 500 miles in the summer then

[fatboy47]

Tried for a year, didn't like, now back to diesel.

I do a lot of very long drives.

[dougcollins]

Note: You can also request your EV to be nice and toastie warm when you set off. You can bin that ice-scraper.

My diesel A6 does that.

[Boss Hogg]

Electric go karts are great, maybe ok for a local runabout but as for a main car no thanks.

[dougcollins]

Electric go karts are great, maybe ok for a local runabout but as for a main car no thanks.

That's my current opinion.

Happy to receive the evidence that changes it.

[Awayfromburnley]

I was cynical about getting an EV.

Got one and it's genuinely the best vehicle i have ever had by a considerable distance.

Acceleration and handling is phenomenal

Range is great. Yes if you do 200 miles a day regularly it will be some burden to charge, but realistically who does that? Even then it's manageable.

Ask yourself how many EV owners you know who were desperate to swap back to petrol? Barely any.

Go for it. Lease recommended if possible.

[wilks_bfc]

We’re one month into having gone to an EV, an e2008

We are a 2 car household, but I WFH mostly so it’s mainly used by Mrs W to get to work and back each day.

Did have the inevitable range anxiety, especially as I was driving 4 of us to Skegness for the weekend.
Tbh I could maybe have done the journey there on a full charge, but I would have had find somewhere there to charge it to get back
Bit of planning ahead and we stopped at Barnetby to charge up and have a coffee for an hour and then didn’t same on way back

[morninbob]

Excellent mine will do over 500 miles in the summer then

Not with the air con on it won't.

[bobinho]

Well, it's not sitting there wasting petrol of an idling engine to power the AC, nor does the EV power drop when the AC is on.

If a petrol engine is running and powering the AC, then the fuel isn’t being wasted is it? It’s being used to provide a service.

[IanMcL]

If a petrol engine is running and powering the AC, then the fuel isn’t being wasted is it? It’s being used to provide a service.

You are correct. It is just polluting us all.

[bobinho]

Happy to be convinced it’s the future. I would like to know WHY it’s the future tho… driving them certainly won’t save the planet. That’s not me being cynical, it just won’t. The planet is warming up and that’s a fact, and no matter what we do it will continue to warm up. Then when it’s fully warmed up, it’ll begin to cool again, until almost all the planet is covered in ice again. I’m going to call this period “an ice age”. I know - crazy right?
So now we’ve put that away, what does it give us?
Imagine the government invests massively in making sure the country is EV friendly (it currently isn’t) We are all driving them…it’s the new “norm”. How much to charge when it’s either charge up to drive anywhere or walk? Absolutely - it’ll go from next to nothing to almost everything. Zero road tax!!!! Yippee!!! When all we have is these vehicles, does anyone really think the govt won’t invent another way to screw us over with a tax for an unforeseen problem that using them brings?

Like I say, I’m happy to be convinced they really are the future. Had a ride in a Tesla the other day. Driver put his clog down and I honestly hadn’t felt acceleration like that since I went on a track day on my GSXR 750. It was absolutely UNREAL! The performance and ride quality was exceptional. Would I consider one? Only to save money. It’s the only thing these things are likely to save, and that’ll only be in the short term.

[karatekid]

The UK government receives tax revenue from drivers of petrol and diesel cars via two key methods: fuel duty, which brings £28 billion a year into government coffers, and Vehicle Excise Duty (road tax), which nets roughly £7 billion. Combined, these sources make up 1.5% of the UK’s GDP and account for around 4% of all tax revenue.

If we all go to EV’s they will need to recoup that somehow. I’m not sure they really want us all to ditch our internal combustion engines just yet. It sounds like they are doing something so they will be happy with that.

How do you charge your EV when you live in a block of flats or an apartment building. How about a terraced street with no driveway.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Used to love my EV car. Now I can’t wait to get rid of it and get a diesel car.

If you are only planning and bobbing around town in it they are great. If you want to do any meaningful travel on a consistent basis just don’t bother.

I regularly have to drive from Durham to Bristol for work, a journey that would take approximately 6 hours in a diesel car is taking me anywhere up 9 hours now.

Charging on the road is a real nightmare and costs an absolute fortune. £130 worth of charging to get to Bristol and back the other day. (Starting with a full tank at both ends)

Also worth noting battery performance in year 4 for both myself and a colleague has dropped off a cliff.

[Newcastleclaret93]

You can arrange a Polestar test drive online and do it from their space at the Trafford Centre. I think they may even bring it to you, can't remember. (I have a Polestar 2, which I love. Definitely interested in a 4 at some point.)

I’ve got a polestar 2 how do you use yours? Small journeys or are you using it for regular long journeys?

[Prof]

I’ve had an EV9 for the past year and it has been great. I do 140 miles round trip 2-3 days a week and charge at home.

Around town it will get about 330 miles on a full charge which goes down to about 260-270 on the motorway. In the winter when it is really cold that drops to about 210-240 ( depending on how cold it gets).

I was nervous about getting one but now I can’t imagine ever going back.

Having said that, I’ve got a few friends who had teslas and they couldn’t wait to dump them and get a different EV. They just were not particularly well built.

[Stevie Morgan]

The UK government receives tax revenue from drivers of petrol and diesel cars via two key methods: fuel duty, which brings £28 billion a year into government coffers, and Vehicle Excise Duty (road tax), which nets roughly £7 billion. Combined, these sources make up 1.5% of the UK’s GDP and account for around 4% of all tax revenue.

If we all go to EV’s they will need to recoup that somehow. I’m not sure they really want us all to ditch our internal combustion engines just yet. It sounds like they are doing something so they will be happy with that.

How do you charge your EV when you live in a block of flats or an apartment building. How about a terraced street with no driveway.

How do those people "charge" their petrol and diesel cars? Come on it's not difficult to envisage where we need to get to, the transition just seems slow when we're in the middle of it.