22 games unbeaten in the league

[CrosspoolClarets]

Interesting analysis from Sheffield United supporter:
https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/pos ... ts.102603/

I chuckled at that. Love his enthusiasm and analytical edge but really this shows where cognitive bias comes in. I started reading the post last night and immediately thought “he will have them as winning by 1-2 points”. Lo and behold, he did.

To be fair though he did say it was too close to call, and some Blades fans on their Burnley threads are saying we are better than them if we can keep scoring.

[Goliath]

I chuckled at that. Love his enthusiasm and analytical edge but really this shows where cognitive bias comes in. I started reading the post last night and immediately thought “he will have them as winning by 1-2 points”. Lo and behold, he did.

To be fair though he did say it was too close to call, and some Blades fans on their Burnley threads are saying we are better than them if we can keep scoring.

We have started scoring haven't we?

[dvalley69]

We have started scoring haven't we?

Yes, that's why he said KEEP scoring not START scoring!

[Goliath]

Yes, that's why he said KEEP scoring not START scoring!

Alright keep your hair on, I clearly misread it

[dvalley69]

Alright keep your hair on, I clearly misread it

Just pointing out what he said. You keep your hair on. I was only highlighting the poster's point, which you didn't see, but did this time.

[Bullabill]

Getting the name of one of our former players in there as well...nice work

By George you're right !

[NL Claret]

By George you're right !

And Ian

[Rowls]

For comparison the 23 undefeated was 17 wins and 6 draws, this would be 14 wins and 9 draws if we win on Saturday.

If we’d matched the 2016 win rate the extra points would put us top of the league.

It’s worth remembering that Brighton and Middlesbrough pushed us really hard that year. Easy to believe in hindsight that it was a forgone conclusion but it was anything but.

[Goliath]

If we’d matched the 2016 win rate the extra points would put us top of the league.

It’s worth remembering that Brighton and Middlesbrough pushed us really hard that year. Easy to believe in hindsight that it was a forgone conclusion but it was anything but.

I felt at the time it basically hinged on the last minute equaliser v boro and to soke extent at Brighton as well.
That's the thing we've been really crap at this season, building pressure late on in games when we need a goal, until we break through..... That and having the quality of Matt Taylor on corners with a centre back who loves to score in Michael Keane..

[Rowls]

I felt at the time it basically hinged on the last minute equaliser v boro and to soke extent at Brighton as well.
That's the thing we've been really crap at this season, building pressure late on in games when we need a goal, until we break through..... That and having the quality of Matt Taylor on corners with a centre back who loves to score in Michael Keane..

There was a steely resolve in 2016 that I fear may be lacking this time round.

But neither should we forget how lacklustre we’d been in the first half of the season, culminating in the thumping at Hull before the glorious run-in began.

Here’s hoping the gloves really come off for the current squad.

[houseboy]

Part of the reason for that is when the 23 run occurred, assuming we make it and beat or draw with Luton. The 22 game run under VK ended at home and against QPR who were in the bottom 4 at the time (would have been 20th had Reading not been deducted 6 points). Similar to Luton this weekend-just had their first win in 11-should be a walk over but we all know it wont be, not usually at this stage of the season.It is what makes the game at this level so knee trembling as anything can happen.

That QPR result was a total farce. Players falling down injured all over the park on obvious instruction. Time wasting like I have never seen. Three all went down at once all over the pitch. Referee should have booked some early first half but left it till about half way through the second. I cannot remember such a disgraceful bunch of cheats ever.

[dandeclaret]

There was a steely resolve in 2016 that I fear may be lacking this time round.

But neither should we forget how lacklustre we’d been in the first half of the season, culminating in the thumping at Hull before the glorious run-in began.

Here’s hoping the gloves really come off for the current squad.

That steely resolve to grab a draw from the grasps of defeat, rather than the steely resolve to rarely look troubled in any game?

[Rowls]

That steely resolve to grab a draw from the grasps of defeat, rather than the steely resolve to rarely look troubled in any game?

No, I wouldn't describe it that way, even though I understand your point.

It's very difficult to describe how we subjectively appraise our teams. The best way to put it is to look at the difference between Cullen and Barton and Flemming and Gray.

Neither Flemming or Cullen are pushovers but neither has that nigh psychotic aura that Barton and Gray had. Flemming and Cullen are arguably better footballers. The same comparison be relevant in comparing 2016 Dyche and contemporary Parker - I think Dyche has a slight edge. It's not about physical size, more to do with just how crazed they are in their will to win.

We're much more composed and less hurried in our play these days. There are undoubted benefits but I don't see it as an untrammelled positive.

I think our current squad has a more footballing talent than we did in 2016. The ceiling for these players is hopefully even higher. But I fear there's something intangible that is missing.

As I said, it's tricky to put these subjective thoughts down in writing. There's not really any right or wrong, only opinions. How would you describe the differences between the 2016 side and this one?

[dandeclaret]

No, I wouldn't describe it that way, even though I understand your point.

It's very difficult to describe how we subjectively appraise our teams. The best way to put it is to look at the difference between Cullen and Barton and Flemming and Gray.

Neither Flemming or Cullen are pushovers but neither has that nigh psychotic aura that Barton and Gray had. Flemming and Cullen are arguably better footballers. The same comparison be relevant in comparing 2016 Dyche and contemporary Parker - I think Dyche has a slight edge. It's not about physical size, more to do with just how crazed they are in their will to win.

We're much more composed and less hurried in our play these days. There are undoubted benefits but I don't see it as an untrammelled positive.

I think our current squad has a more footballing talent than we did in 2016. The ceiling for these players is hopefully even higher. But I fear there's something intangible that is missing.

As I said, it's tricky to put these subjective thoughts down in writing. There's not really any right or wrong, only opinions. How would you describe the differences between the 2016 side and this one?

Expectation levels? 2016 was a world where teams didn't always bounce back to the prem - in fact it was the exception, so the ceiling of expectation in the fan base was much easier to achieve. Now, given the way the game has gone, the expectation level is basically anything except the very best (of which Burnley pre season were an 8/1 shot, so around a 11% chance of actually happening) is unacceptable. This has manifested in many ways - a lack of atmosphere in the ground, a lack of appreciation of what's being achieved on forums like this, and a lack of tolerance of performances that dip below the line.

The fact that a 22 game unbeaten run, in a season averaging over 2 points per game, still sees people on here rushing criticise the manager, and give very little credit to the team is testament to this.

[Burnley1989]

Expectation levels? 2016 was a world where teams didn't always bounce back to the prem - in fact it was the exception, so the ceiling of expectation in the fan base was much easier to achieve. Now, given the way the game has gone, the expectation level is basically anything except the very best (of which Burnley pre season were an 8/1 shot, so around a 11% chance of actually happening) is unacceptable. This has manifested in many ways - a lack of atmosphere in the ground, a lack of appreciation of what's being achieved on forums like this, and a lack of tolerance of performances that dip below the line.

The fact that a 22 game unbeaten run, in a season averaging over 2 points per game, still sees people on here rushing criticise the manager, and give very little credit to the team is testament to this.

Spot on, it's been so strange this year.
We've become that sort of fan base we hated

[Spijed]

No, I wouldn't describe it that way, even though I understand your point.

It's very difficult to describe how we subjectively appraise our teams. The best way to put it is to look at the difference between Cullen and Barton and Flemming and Gray.

Neither Flemming or Cullen are pushovers but neither has that nigh psychotic aura that Barton and Gray had. Flemming and Cullen are arguably better footballers. The same comparison be relevant in comparing 2016 Dyche and contemporary Parker - I think Dyche has a slight edge. It's not about physical size, more to do with just how crazed they are in their will to win.

We're much more composed and less hurried in our play these days. There are undoubted benefits but I don't see it as an untrammelled positive.

I think our current squad has a more footballing talent than we did in 2016. The ceiling for these players is hopefully even higher. But I fear there's something intangible that is missing.

As I said, it's tricky to put these subjective thoughts down in writing. There's not really any right or wrong, only opinions. How would you describe the differences between the 2016 side and this one?

When you talk about resolve do you think the defence in 2016 was better at seeing out games than it is now?

[jlup1980]

Spot on, it's been so strange this year.
We've become that sort of fan base we hated

I think there's a number of reasons why the team and Manager are still getting criticism. It's mainly the style of play, but I also don't believe there's a great affinity with the team after two years of merry-go-round transfer windows. Add to that the clear short falls of the team (strikers in the main), and it's not a surprise the season has caused frustration. I think there's a general feeling that we should be doing even better.

For what it's worth, I think Parker has done a brilliant job. To average two points a game is remarkable, especially with so many players sales, loans, and injuries to contend with. We've still not seen anything from Sambo, Beyer, Ramsey, Redmond, or Tresor. I'm going to guess their wages have been felt by the club though. This season should be seen as a success regardless of outcome, but expectations are high and some won't be happy unless we make automatic promotion.

[Rowls]

Expectation levels? 2016 was a world where teams didn't always bounce back to the prem - in fact it was the exception, so the ceiling of expectation in the fan base was much easier to achieve. Now, given the way the game has gone, the expectation level is basically anything except the very best (of which Burnley pre season were an 8/1 shot, so around a 11% chance of actually happening) is unacceptable. This has manifested in many ways - a lack of atmosphere in the ground, a lack of appreciation of what's being achieved on forums like this, and a lack of tolerance of performances that dip below the line.

The fact that a 22 game unbeaten run, in a season averaging over 2 points per game, still sees people on here rushing criticise the manager, and give very little credit to the team is testament to this.

Agree that the expectation levels have risen. We probably differ on where to draw the line of what is, as you say, an 'acceptable' level of expectation.

But there's other factors at play - the perceived level of performance, our restricted style of play, the lack of goals and attacking intent. It does feel surreal to not be so buzzing given the results this season not to mention our league position and that unbeleivable defensive record but a lot of the criticism is legitimate. The lack of attacking intent has been there for all to see. Only lately do we appear to be creating chances on a regular basis. Our weak attacking stats show this to be true.

The results are great. Scotty and the team deserve a lot of credit. There's just a nagging feeling that this team could be pushed further, and a fear that failure to do so will ultimately cost us.

[Rowls]

Spot on, it's been so strange this year.
We've become that sort of fan base we hated

Definitely a strange season. Not sure what you mean about the fan base though.

When you talk about resolve do you think the defence in 2016 was better at seeing out games than it is now?

I was generally less worried about Sean Dyche teams conceding but then they didn't play around with it at the back so much - even though nobody but nobody has conceded less goals than us at this level under Parker. My concerns about conceding =/= actually conceding.

Both sides had a habit of shutting up shop after scoring goals. Dyche's side were more likely to score 2 or 3 and manage the game to closure. Parker's side are doing this after 1 or 2 goals.

Clearly, Parker's side has the better defensive record but Dyche's side won more games and 'saw more games out'.

If I had to hypothetically back one side over another I'd back Dyche's 2016 side over the Parker's current team but it would be a very close game. Fine margins and all that.

[NL Claret]

I’m not quoting as there be too much text etc however “Our weak attacking stats show this to be true.”

We are 8th in the league for goals scored. Wasn’t there an article earlier in the season about the lack of goals in the championship this season?

[Rowls]

I’m not quoting as there be too much text etc however “Our weak attacking stats show this to be true.”

We are 8th in the league for goals scored. Wasn’t there an article earlier in the season about the lack of goals in the championship this season?

As ever with stats, you can read them multiple ways.

Being 3rd in the league you'd expect our goals scored to be similarly high. 8th is below what you'd expect.

There's also the fact that we've put 4 past Luton and Sheffield Wednesday and 5 past Cardiff and Plymouth. That's great.

But we've drawn a blank 13 times in the league. That's worrying.

[NL Claret]

As ever with stats, you can read them multiple ways.

Being 3rd in the league you'd expect our goals scored to be similarly high. 8th is below what you'd expect.

There's also the fact that we've put 4 past Luton and Sheffield Wednesday and 5 past Cardiff and Plymouth. That's great.

But we've drawn a blank 13 times in the league. That's worrying.

Just looked at the table for 15/16. Middlesbrough were promoted having scored 63 goals. 18 in the remaining games would be similar.

The PL is a different ball game I know, when we finished 7th we had a negative goal difference.

Don’t get me wrong, we have had some poor performances, Derby, Stoke, Leeds etc when we never looked like scoring. Hopefully we will continue to create and convert chances that we have done in the previous 5 league matches.

[It Is What It Is]

22 Games Unbeaten AND 8th in the league for goals scored.
I'd settle for that in the Premier League next season.

[Spijed]

Just looked at the table for 15/16. Middlesbrough were promoted having scored 63 goals. 18 in the remaining games would be similar.

The PL is a different ball game I know, when we finished 7th we had a negative goal difference.

Don’t get me wrong, we have had some poor performances, Derby, Stoke, Leeds etc when we never looked like scoring. Hopefully we will continue to create and convert chances that we have done in the previous 5 league matches.

Laurent missed an open goal against Stoke in the last minute.

[Rowls]

22 Games Unbeaten AND 8th in the league for goals scored.
I'd settle for that in the Premier League next season.

Hear hear!

[Burnley1989]

Definitely a strange season. Not sure what you mean about the fan base

I think some have become arrogant, I guess it comes with success.
Constantly moaning about the manager whilst on this run is not something we'd have ever imagined would happen at this club... but here we are

[dougcollins]

Dyche 'seeing a game out' was at another level. Time wasting and game management was honed to perfection.

[Rowls]

I think some have become arrogant, I guess it comes with success.
Constantly moaning about the manager whilst on this run is not something we'd have ever imagined would happen at this club... but here we are

Yeah, for some lucky young buggers, they've only known this relative success. Only natural there'd be a lack of perspective and annoyance for us to fall away from what they take as the status quo.

When I started watching in the 90s I was constantly appalled at what felt like non-stop pessimistim from fans who''d seen us fall to from top to bottom.

[Darnhill Claret]

When supporters moaned at Dyche teams, they would defend themselves by saying they wouldn't moan so much at younger players, implying they would give younger players more time and be more accepting of their inconsistencies.
Well I think we know that some people are only accepting of high standards and think they are entitled to have a go if players don't reach those levels and hammer players when they make mistakes or miss chances, and so it will ever be.

[ClaretGent]

Time to dust this off...

IMG_20250308_165714.jpg (167.84 KiB) Viewed 1366 times

[GetIntoEm]

This is better than the Dyche one

[gandhisflipflop]

Has any side ever done 23 undefeated twice in the championship?

[Marney&Mee]

Time to dust this off...

IMG_20250308_165714.jpg

Your surname is incredibly apt…

[Hibsclaret]

Has any side ever done 23 undefeated twice in the championship?

Not sure but we have done 22 three times

[GetIntoEm]

Glad we sang 23 23 today with parkers name in there. Im 99% sure we won't lose again this year

[Burnleyareback2]

Glad we sang 23 23 today with parkers name in there. Im 99% sure we won't lose again this year

I whispered at the end of December that we won’t lose a league game again this season. Truly think we will go the hole hog.

[Woodleyclaret]

2 points behind DL and the Blades both catchable by us

[Ric_C]

I't all about mental resolve now on and off the pitch. The fact that we have Cullen, Brownhill and Barnes who have been here and done it before will be invaluable.

In theory we could finish the season 33 undefeated and on 102 points (if we draw with Blades) and still not go up automatically, which would be crazy.

Looking at the fixtures, I feel we have the toughest run in, but who knows, we just need to keep winning. I think if we can sneak ahead of the Blades before we play them will decide the season, as they will need to go for it at the turf, and I feel we can pick them off.

[IanMcL]

23. Role on Tuesday. We can do this.