O/T........EVs

[Stproc]

Seems like the gist of this thread is that if you just toddle about a bit on a daily basis, an EV is ideal, but if you want to do some substantial mileage (without having to wait around for a few hours) an EV becomes much more of an issue.

I’ve just driven to Skye & back in an EV. Fully charged at home before setting off, topped up nr Glasgow no problems. As for waiting about for a few hours - I went to washroom, got a coffee then 5 mins stretching my legs & the car was charged to 80% which is the recommendation.
You need to be able to think ahead and plan your charges but someone with an average brain should be able to cope quite well. The only issue is when a charger is occasionally not working but there’s plenty of them, even on Skye.

[Burnleyareback2]

A really divisive topic with very few impartial comments.

I didn’t set out for an electric car. My shopping list was something that was full of equipment and something quick. For the money the Tesla Y beat everything hands down. Anything that I wanted with petrol was twice the price.

I’m into the 3rd week now and still love it.

[Foshiznik]

How did it go Foshiznik?

In the end I went for the new Ford Explorer as the lease deals blew everything else out of the water. Lovely car too.

[1HappyClaret]

I am taking delivery of the Renault Scenic Iconic long range in April which WLTP say 369 miles on a charge. Real world seems to suggest about 330 but less in cold weather. This is after having a MG HS plug in hybrid. We also looked at the Ford Explorer but we have had Renaults before without any problems. Will report back with thoughts and costs. Will go with Octopus Intelligent Go tariff which will give my 7p\kWh during the night or during the day if issues with supply overnight.

[turfytopper]

Great car — I looked at these, but used car prices are very high for these! Can I ask when you bought it?

Of course you can.....I bought on the 6th March 2023 from a Toyota dealer in Sandhurst...Inchcape.

It was advertised as having 11 miles on the clock and was 12 months old. At around £9000 under the new price I thought I'd go and see it.
I've covered 8000 miles and it was recently serviced again. The car is fantastic. Not a pocket rocket but as all the mod cons, comfortable and so so frugal.

[Bosscat]

Of course you can.....I bought on the 6th March 2023 from a Toyota dealer in Sandhurst...Inchcape.

It was advertised as having 11 miles on the clock and was 12 months old. At around £9000 under the new price I thought I'd go and see it.
I've covered 8000 miles and it was recently serviced again. The car is fantastic. Not a pocket rocket but as all the mod cons, comfortable and so so frugal.

In 2019 I bought a 6 month old Citroen C3 ex Demo with 61 miles on the clock for the Mrs it was £5K off list price ... Traded it in for the EC4 in 2022 and got more than I paid for it the extra paid for our OHME Home-pro wall charger.

[GetIntoEm]

Anyone drive a EV without a home charger? Not worth it?

[Stproc]

Anyone drive a EV without a home charger? Not worth it?

If you charge at home, at night on the lowest tariff it is about 7p per kwh
If you charge at commercial chargers it is 60-89p per kWh
If you don’t have a charger you can still plug into a normal mains socket overnight but it’s slower. This is fine unless you’re doing over 80 miles a day.

[GetIntoEm]

If you charge at home, at night on the lowest tariff it is about 7p per kwh
If you charge at commercial chargers it is 60-89p per kWh
If you don’t have a charger you can still plug into a normal mains socket overnight but it’s slower. This is fine unless you’re doing over 80 miles a day.

So I currently do a max of about 200 miles a week, have access to a normal plug socket outside. Not sure my antiquated electrics will take a charger that's all. But certainly have a outdoor plug I can use

[GetIntoEm]

Also to add, can charge at work for 10p per kwh

[Bosscat]

So I currently do a max of about 200 miles a week, have access to a normal plug socket outside. Not sure my antiquated electrics will take a charger that's all. But certainly have a outdoor plug I can use

You definitely need a 100amp main Fuse for a 7.5kwh Charger ... as we have ...

[wilks_bfc]

So I currently do a max of about 200 miles a week, have access to a normal plug socket outside. Not sure my antiquated electrics will take a charger that's all. But certainly have a outdoor plug I can use

You’ll be able to charge it that way but as stproc says, it’ll be a lot slower to do.

We have a 7p tariff between midnight & 5am and have the charger set for those times only.

[Bosscat]

You’ll be able to charge it that way but as stproc says, it’ll be a lot slower to do.

We have a 7p tariff between midnight & 5am and have the charger set for those times only.

We have Economy 7 so get cheap rate between midnight and 7am. 7 hours more than enough to charge our 50kw EC4 battery and 15kw C5 PHEV battery.

[Plissken]

So I currently do a max of about 200 miles a week, have access to a normal plug socket outside. Not sure my antiquated electrics will take a charger that's all. But certainly have a outdoor plug I can use

If it is anything like my experience, the company doing the charger installation will do a survey and also check with the electricity supplier.

In my case, the supplier approved the installation but said they wanted to check the supply themselves. Charger fitted, no problem. Electricity North West came, had a look and determined that the overall supply to the house wasn't up to modern standards, especially as it is looped with other houses (don't ask, I have no idea). So next month they are coming, digging part of the drive up, laying a newer, better cable and fixing the drive afterwards for the grand total cost of £0.

(As I understand it, it is the suppliers responsibility that the supply to your house is of an adequate standard, not yours, so if they determine it needs fixing then they do it as their expense.)

[basil6345789]

We have Economy 7 so get cheap rate between midnight and 7am. 7 hours more than enough to charge our 50kw EC4 battery and 15kw C5 PHEV battery.

Is not Economy 7 toast in June 2025?

[Bosscat]

Is not Economy 7 toast in June 2025?

Only if your meter is a radio controlled meter ... Ours isn't accordong to our supplier.

[Claretitus]

Just ordered the new Renault 5 E-Tech, in Roland Garros trim. Also just switched from B Gas to Octopus , and will sign up to their Intelligent Go, to qualify for my 12 months free charging. Just over 250 miles claimed range on this, but 220 WLTP will mean only 1 charge a week needed.

[basil6345789]

I’ve just driven to Skye & back in an EV. Fully charged at home before setting off, topped up nr Glasgow no problems. As for waiting about for a few hours - I went to washroom, got a coffee then 5 mins stretching my legs & the car was charged to 80% which is the recommendation.
You need to be able to think ahead and plan your charges but someone with an average brain should be able to cope quite well. The only issue is when a charger is occasionally not working but there’s plenty of them, even on Skye.

If you charge it to over 80% is there a fire risk?

[Caballo]

If you charge it to over 80% is there a fire risk?

It's related to the number of battery 'cycles' and conditioning, nothing to do with fire risk.

[Caballo]

Also to add, can charge at work for 10p per kwh

Careful with that one, HMRC view it as BIC if you're paying below the companies purchase tariff. Ours were originally subsidised as an incentive to move to EV, but the tax man made it more hassle than it was worth for both company and employee.

[Herts Clarets]

You’ll be able to charge it that way but as stproc says, it’ll be a lot slower to do.

We have a 7p tariff between midnight & 5am and have the charger set for those times only.

A Tesla model 3 standard has a 57kwh hour battery. The maximum draw you will get from a 3 pin plug charging is 3kw/h. To charge it to 80% so 45kw/h would take around 15 hours. Anything other than a plug in hybrid with a relatively small battery will benefit from a 7.5kw EV charger.

I am quite happy carryng on with my ICE vehicles for the foreseeable, until such time as a move away is enforced. My daily commuting vehicle is a diesel and quite frugal and for the weekends and good weather, I have something an EV will never be able to replace and that is the sound of a flat 6 3.4 litre boxer engine in my Porsche Boxster S. And that is despite the eye watering cost of the annual RFL....

[Plissken]

Just ordered the new Renault 5 E-Tech, in Roland Garros trim. Also just switched from B Gas to Octopus , and will sign up to their Intelligent Go, to qualify for my 12 months free charging. Just over 250 miles claimed range on this, but 220 WLTP will mean only 1 charge a week needed.

Everyone I know who has looked at one has absolutely loved it. I have to admit, they seemed to have absolutely nailed it - and the very silly Turbo-E is the cherry on top of the cake.

[Plissken]

A Tesla model 3 standard has a 57kwh hour battery. The maximum draw you will get from a 3 pin plug charging is 3kw/h. To charge it to 80% so 45kw/h would take around 15 hours. Anything other than a plug in hybrid with a relatively small battery will benefit from a 7.5kw EV charger.

First thing to do with an EV is learn to get out of the mindset of "I need to fill up" and replace it with "I need to charge to the amount I need".

[Stproc]

So I currently do a max of about 200 miles a week, have access to a normal plug socket outside. Not sure my antiquated electrics will take a charger that's all. But certainly have a outdoor plug I can use

If you purchase a charger & the supply to your house is inadequate then your supplier will upgrade it free of charge. My house is ‘looped’ with next door and it is being unlooped at no cost to me.

[Stproc]

If you charge it to over 80% is there a fire risk?

No, it’s about prolonging battery state if health.

[Quicknick]

Aren't they boring to drive?

[Bosscat]

Aren't they boring to drive?

No

[IanMcL]

Anyone drive a EV without a home charger? Not worth it?

I have free supercharging, so I am an exception!

[Quicknick]

Heavy on the roads.

[Caballo]

Aren't they boring to drive?

Definately not, atleast not in a straight line. They're a little heavy in the corners for the most part for spirited driving, but boring isn't a word I'd use.

[jsclaret]

Just started looking for a nearly new smallish SUV EV. There are some around with heat pumps. I understand the technology but has anyone any advice or thought on whether they are worthwhile?

[Leon_C]

Aren't they boring to drive?

I've had 2 EVs, both admittedly at the higher end of the performance spectrum.
Both were (the current one is) amazing to drive, and a daily source of excitement. I don't think a human ever, ever gets bored of the sensation of controlled acceleration... I get a kick, every single time, out of joining a motorway on a sliproad, especially when it's quiet

Beyond those bursts, the immediate torque makes driving way more fun, being able to safely and confidently pull out into a lane of traffic is satisfying, each time.

A lower centre of gravity helps, too!

[Quicknick]

I've had 2 EVs, both admittedly at the higher end of the performance spectrum.
Both were (the current one is) amazing to drive, and a daily source of excitement. I don't think a human ever, ever gets bored of the sensation of controlled acceleration... I get a kick, every single time, out of joining a motorway on a sliproad, especially when it's quiet

Beyond those bursts, the immediate torque makes driving way more fun, being able to safely and confidently pull out into a lane of traffic is satisfying, each time.

A lower centre of gravity helps, too!

Explained well. Thanks.

[Row x]

I've had 2 EVs, both admittedly at the higher end of the performance spectrum.
Both were (the current one is) amazing to drive, and a daily source of excitement. I don't think a human ever, ever gets bored of the sensation of controlled acceleration... I get a kick, every single time, out of joining a motorway on a sliproad, especially when it's quiet

Beyond those bursts, the immediate torque makes driving way more fun, being able to safely and confidently pull out into a lane of traffic is satisfying, each time.

A lower centre of gravity helps, too!

My petrol driven, adaptive cruise control does similar, and reads the speed signs and adjusts accordingly, won't let me crash into anyone, and I can fill up anywhere.

When electric vehicles do the same, at the same cost, I might think about it.

[dougcollins]

and I can fill up anywhere.

When electric vehicles do the same, at the same cost, I might think about it.

I think fill up anywhere 'within minutes' is the key. Until electric cars can do that it's a problem.

I do have a full EV at home, out of interest.

[Foshiznik]

I think fill up anywhere 'within minutes' is the key. Until electric cars can do that it's a problem.

I do have a full EV at home, out of interest.

It’s only a problem if you make it one. Most new EVs can charge to 80% in around 30 minutes so if on a long journey and you’d normally stop for a coffee and a toilet break at a motorway services it’s not inconvenient.

[wilks_bfc]

It’s only a problem if you make it one. Most new EVs can charge to 80% in around 30 minutes so if on a long journey and you’d normally stop for a coffee and a toilet break at a motorway services it’s not inconvenient.

Exactly this

We went with EV at start of the year and had the inevitable range anxiety, especially as I was driving to Skegness within the first week of having it

Like you say, on most long journeys you’d be stopping for a break anyway and can quickly top up the charge during that time

[Leon_C]

Exactly this

We went with EV at start of the year and had the inevitable range anxiety, especially as I was driving to Skegness within the first week of having it

Like you say, on most long journeys you’d be stopping for a break anyway and can quickly top up the charge during that time

Same as this. I'm back into EV after 2.5 years of a diesel (after 3.5 years in an EV between 2019-22.)

The charger network in 2019 was shocking. Absymsal. I didn't need to use public chargers much, but that WAS a problem. Electric Highway in its infancy was dogsh*t. Other charging networks thin on the ground. Instavolt was the single standout reliable operator.

Some 6 years on, there are rapid DC chargers everywhere, pretty much. Even central Wales, probably. My car will do 200-220 miles if I drive carefully, or 180-200 if I drive it with some spirit. So, with a little forward planning on a long journey (essentially an idea within 20-30 miles where I would need to stop) then there is no issue.

I know it's divisive, like many things - but driving an EV is more fun (for me) than driving a diesel auto, every single day of the week.

[dsr]

It’s only a problem if you make it one. Most new EVs can charge to 80% in around 30 minutes so if on a long journey and you’d normally stop for a coffee and a toilet break at a motorway services it’s not inconvenient.

So if you're going to Coventry on Saturday in a petrol car, you drive there and back without needing to fill up. But if you're in an electric car, you can drive to Coventry, look for a charger at the ground, not find one because it's a bit busy, and charge up for half an hour at the first services heading back north. Not quite as convenient as petrol is it.

Please don't pretend that there are no inconveniences about electric cars. Of course there are inconveniences - inconveniences that can be worked round, perhaps, and minor inconveniences, perhaps. But to claim that refuelling is not inconvenient at all is simply nonsense and it provides ammo for those that won't have an electric car at any price.

(I don't have a decision to make. Nowhere to charge at home = no electric car. Simple.)

[Plissken]

Even my car manages to get to Coventry and back without needing a charge and it’s not the most efficient EV out there.

[1HappyClaret]

Although I don’t get my new Renault Scenic until next week it would do the 250 mile round trip without having to stop to charge.

[dsr]

Even my car manages to get to Coventry and back without needing a charge and it’s not the most efficient EV out there.

Some can, some can't. Leon's car, for example, won't do it. Turf Moor to Coventry City, per google maps, is a 280 mile round trip - it is an inconvenience to have a car that can't do that with spare capacity. It's not an impossible situation, but an inconvenience.

[Stproc]

So if you're going to Coventry on Saturday in a petrol car, you drive there and back without needing to fill up. But if you're in an electric car, you can drive to Coventry, look for a charger at the ground, not find one because it's a bit busy, and charge up for half an hour at the first services heading back north. Not quite as convenient as petrol is it.

Please don't pretend that there are no inconveniences about electric cars. Of course there are inconveniences - inconveniences that can be worked round, perhaps, and minor inconveniences, perhaps. But to claim that refuelling is not inconvenient at all is simply nonsense and it provides ammo for those that won't have an electric car at any price.

(I don't have a decision to make. Nowhere to charge at home = no electric car. Simple.)

1) most EVs will do a return trip to Coventry.
2) why would you charge up at the ground?
3) why would you not find a charging station, the car & countless apps will tell you where they are, whether they are working, if in use
4) why charge up for 1/2 hour at a service station, you only need enough charge to get you home (+ a little spare).

I’ve just calculated my electricity usage for charging overnight through March & it is £28. I used to put £70-80 worth of diesel in.

[GetIntoEm]

I think I'm gonna go for it it'll be a Tesla, or one of the Porsche as some good deals at the moment

[Newcastleclaret93]

1) most EVs will do a return trip to Coventry.
2) why would you charge up at the ground?
3) why would you not find a charging station, the car & countless apps will tell you where they are, whether they are working, if in use
4) why charge up for 1/2 hour at a service station, you only need enough charge to get you home (+ a little spare).

I’ve just calculated my electricity usage for charging overnight through March & it is £28. I used to put £70-80 worth of diesel in.

Saying most EVs will do a round trip from Burnley to Coventry is very disingenuous. Given most EV cars have a real range of below 250 miles.

My car would probably need at least one big charge.

[dsr]

1) most EVs will do a return trip to Coventry.
2) why would you charge up at the ground?
3) why would you not find a charging station, the car & countless apps will tell you where they are, whether they are working, if in use
4) why charge up for 1/2 hour at a service station, you only need enough charge to get you home (+ a little spare).

I’ve just calculated my electricity usage for charging overnight through March & it is £28. I used to put £70-80 worth of diesel in.

If you're trying to prove that breaking the journey for a recharge is not an inconvenience compared with going straight home, then you're wasting your time because it clearly is to most people, if not to you.

Why would you not find a charging station at the ground? Well, the number of charging stations in walking distance of Coventry's ground is probably set so there are enough for normal usage, not for when there are 20,000+ extra visitors. That's why they might all be occupied.

You don't need to be so defensive about electric cars. I'm not saying that petrol cars are better in every respect, and nor need anyone say that electric cars are better in every respect. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

[GetIntoEm]

This is my worry, we'd have to still keep at least one traditional ICE.

For long journeys such as Portsmouth where we went earlier this year, with 2 kids in town I just couldn't face a 40min stop at a service station, spend as much on shite as we would on diesel.

I like the idea of a full electric but we would use it for local only.

A refueling stop for me is diesel, brew to take back to the car and quick nip to the bathroom. 5mins and back on the road.

[Leon_C]

Some can, some can't. Leon's car, for example, won't do it. Turf Moor to Coventry City, per google maps, is a 280 mile round trip - it is an inconvenience to have a car that can't do that with spare capacity. It's not an impossible situation, but an inconvenience.

No, mine wouldn't make the journey in one go.

If I was driving, and setting off with 100%, then I'd probably look to stop before the match for food/drink somewhere at the 140-150 mile mark. (Leaving around 40-60 miles range depending how zoomy I'd been on the way down. It's important to remember that you can't ordinarily drive an EV to fumes like you can in an ICE. You can still rely on a petrol station more than a charging station, that's a fact.). I'd fill as high as I could in 30 mins or so, which would get me to 80-90% on a decent 150-200kw charger. Maybe 100%. (It's no secret that EVs charge rate slows above ~80%).
I still may need a bit of a top-up somewhere near home but I'd be happy with that, there are loads of places on the way back, so it would be a discretional stop. And would also depend whether I needed the car to be charged later that day/evening.

So not a hassle, but a bit more effort and planning than an ICE for sure. A trade-off I'm happy with.

[A.Claret.Fan]

So not a hassle, but a bit more effort and planning than an ICE for sure. A trade-off I'm happy with.

For me it would be a hassle!

As an example:
This week I drove from York to Bristol and back on a tank of petrol with an overnight stay.
I didn't stop on either leg, as I want to get the trip over with (It's work and not pleasure).
As I understand (and I could be wrong) with current EV tech I would be lucky to get a single leg (250ish miles) without a recharge.
I parked in the hotel subsidised NCP which may have had a EV charge point, but may have not so that would be a worry.

If I do stop at a service station it's usually not for more than a few minutes. I may be an impatient character and not laid back wanting to while away my time.

So... Until range and refuel points significantly improve I will stay with ICE technology.

[Leon_C]

For me it would be a hassle!

I think the difference is that until people have driven an EV, the simple idea of 'having to charge' would seem to be a hassle. I get that. I prefer NOT having to charge. But the other benefits that an EV brings more than make up for it.

It's a little like comparing two modes of transport, in a sense. Say, train and car. The train, is faster and easier across a longer distance - but the actual faff at both ends (perhaps getting cabs, or walking to from start/destination) is a bit of a pain.