Talksport now

[helmclaret]

Adrian Durham, Danny Murphy and Darren Lewis talking Burnley.

Interestingly Darren Lewis thinks Parker will do well with us in the Prem.

[mdd2]

Adrian Durham, Danny Murphy and Darren Lewis talking Burnley.

Interestingly Darren Lewis thinks Parker will do well with us in the Prem.

Have to get promoted first

[dougcollins]

Who's Darren Lewis?

[Claretnick]

Who's Darren Lewis?

Football writer and assistant editor of the Mirror.

[Goliath]

Adrian Durham, Danny Murphy and Darren Lewis talking Burnley.

Interestingly Darren Lewis thinks Parker will do well with us in the Prem.

He could be right but we'd have to give him about 50 to 100 million to spend to stand a chance.

[fidelcastro]

He could be right but we'd have to give him about 50 to 100 million to spend to stand a chance.

Like we had last time out in the Prem, you mean?

[NewClaret]

He could be right but we'd have to give him about 50 to 100 million to spend to stand a chance.

I’d say that is light, given Ipswich spent £150m and are making no better job of it than we did.

Southampton €122m who aren’t even in double points figures and are going to score a lot less than our paltry 24 points last time out.

[Casper2]

Who's Darren Lewis?

Racist journalist

[fidelcastro]

Racist journalist

Why is he racist?

[fidelcastro]

Great row on talksport right now, as apparently the papers are reporting the 3 promoted teams are going to start next season with 3 extra points each, in order to give them a better chance of stopping up!

Anyone would think it was April 1st

[IPAclaret]

Let's be honest, the prem has 'moved on' recently

Brighton, Forest, Brentford, Palace, Bournemouth, Everton and Fulham, all sides we regularly took points off are now miles away

I just don't see how a championship side can survive these days

[Goliath]

Like we had last time out in the Prem, you mean?

We spent it badly. If we spent 75 million well it can be done.

[clarets1978]

Great row on talksport right now, as apparently the papers are reporting the 3 promoted teams are going to start next season with 3 extra points each, in order to give them a better chance of stopping up!

Anyone would think it was April 1st

They should have said more points If it had happened this season it wouldnt make any difference to the table as it stands

[bumba]

We spent it badly. If we spent 75 million well it can be done.

Not all the money was spent badly, we was managed badly that's why we went down.
Our previous manager put himself before the club.

[NottsClaret]

The best chance for the next three promoted sides is a few clubs already up there hitting self destruct. There's an awful lot of so-called 'well run' clubs losing absolute fortunes in the Prem. Sooner or later, one or two owners will pull the plug.

[ArmchairDetective]

If we did go up I'd like to think we'd have a better chance of staying up than last time we were there.

[BurnleyFC]

It’s difficult and becoming even more so to stay up.

17th placed Wolves already have 26 points with 9 games remaining. Which is the same number as 18th placed Luton went down with last season.

[Goliath]

Not all the money was spent badly, we was managed badly that's why we went down.
Our previous manager put himself before the club.

Most was spent on players without prem experience or players with potential that weren't going to be cut out for a relegation battle.

Trafford
Odobert
Amdouni
O'Shea
Tresor

That's between 50-100 million pounds on players that couldn't really offer anything to help keep is up.
Berge was an excellent signing but he's the only one. It's no coincidence that he was older and had a lot more experience.

A centre half and a central midfielder with Premier league experience would be absolutely key. In fact I'd sell Trafford immediately on promotion to build the budget, we know he isn't suited to a relegation battle, he needs to be in a better side and we could use the 30 to 40 mill elsewhere

Michael Keane would be the first one through the door for me.

[Darnhill Claret]

Ones that we looked at, or supposedly looked at, but didn't sign.

Semenyo
Delap
Rogers
And of course our Ex Southampton loaned.

If we can keep our young defenders, and add 4 or 5 quality signings, we might have a fighting chance.

But we have to get some young guns, who are affordable and will accept Burnley wages as well as a midfield general with experience, similar to a
Ward-Prowse, Gibbs-White, someone who is spending too much time on the bench at another club.

[bumba]

Most was spent on players without prem experience or players with potential that weren't going to be cut out for a relegation battle.

Trafford
Odobert
Amdouni
O'Shea
Tresor

That's between 50-100 million pounds on players that couldn't really offer anything to help keep is up.
Berge was an excellent signing but he's the only one. It's no coincidence that he was older and had a lot more experience.

A centre half and a central midfielder with Premier league experience would be absolutely key. In fact I'd sell Trafford immediately on promotion to build the budget, we know he isn't suited to a relegation battle, he needs to be in a better side and we could use the 30 to 40 mill elsewhere

Michael Keane would be the first one through the door for me.

Tresor nobody understands and Trafford was mismanaged last season, he was threw under a bus.
The whole squad was capable of performing better but the system and tactics set them up to fail. All the signings you mentioned could have been excellent signings alongside some experienced heads but our manager was to arrogant to accept that.

[SirBob]

That’s 65m at the most, bit unfair of you to casually slap on an extra 35m.

O’Shea had premier league experience, Amdouni plenty of international and European football experience and Tresor was out injured for most of it. There was nothing wrong with these signings on paper, they just didn’t work out. Most were very happy at the time of announcing.

As for Trafford and Odobert, that’s our policy, sign young talented players and make a killing on them further down the line, it’s actually working to a certain degree.

If signing players was that easy no team would ever get relegated.

[Darnhill Claret]

3 would always get relegated.

[Silkyskills1]

If we did go up I'd like to think we'd have a better chance of staying up than last time we were there.

That's a bold statement. I'd really like to believe you but as other posters have mentioned it's getting exponentially more difficult for a club like ours to survive.

[Goliath]

That’s 65m at the most, bit unfair of you to casually slap on an extra 35m.

O’Shea had premier league experience, Amdouni plenty of international and European football experience and Tresor was out injured for most of it. There was nothing wrong with these signings on paper, they just didn’t work out. Most were very happy at the time of announcing.

As for Trafford and Odobert, that’s our policy, sign young talented players and make a killing on them further down the line, it’s actually working to a certain degree.

If signing players was that easy no team would ever get relegated.

They were the wrong profile of player for a relegation battle in the Premier league. Most didn't understand the amount of defensive work and concentration required for 90 minutes along with the danger of giving the ball away in silly areas.

There's a pay off in that we will get big money for them all but we really need a better balance of player coming in next season if we were to go up.
Ramsdale, Keane, Mee, Winks for example. We could probably get all 4 wirh a mixture of loan and transfers and it'd give us a good Base to build from

[Silkyskills1]

Most was spent on players without prem experience or players with potential that weren't going to be cut out for a relegation battle.

Trafford
Odobert
Amdouni
O'Shea
Tresor

That's between 50-100 million pounds on players that couldn't really offer anything to help keep is up.
Berge was an excellent signing but he's the only one. It's no coincidence that he was older and had a lot more experience.

A centre half and a central midfielder with Premier league experience would be absolutely key. In fact I'd sell Trafford immediately on promotion to build the budget, we know he isn't suited to a relegation battle, he needs to be in a better side and we could use the 30 to 40 mill elsewhere

Michael Keane would be the first one through the door for me.

So sell one of your best players to bring in one that's worse?

[ArmchairDetective]

That's a bold statement. I'd really like to believe you but as other posters have mentioned it's getting exponentially more difficult for a club like ours to survive.

I'd like to believe me too it's more a hope based on our defensive record rather than an expectation.

[Goliath]

So sell one of your best players to bring in one that's worse?

Yes. If it means we bring in 30 odd million for Trafford and replace with a player with more experience at a higher level who we may even be able to get on loan which would mean no fee.

We then have another 30 million to use in a different area for example.

[Stalbansclaret]

If we did go up I'd like to think we'd have a better chance of staying up than last time we were there.

I’d like to think that too….. but I don’t !! I mean which team would finish below us and the other two promoted clubs ? Wolves , without Cunha, are the only other remote possibility I can see and presumably they’ll reinvest his sale proceeds.

[ChorltonCharlie]

I think there’s a lot of ‘hot takes’ when it comes to both the difference in standards and our performance last season.

The gap is getting wider, but it hasn’t suddenly turned into wide chasm. I’ve said before, that too many teams fall for the supposed solution of spending a fortune. I think though that rather than being a positive, it ends up as a negative and can upset the dressing room as teammates who’ve performed well are frozen out. There’s been 6 failures from the last 2 promotions, but the team who that made the best fist of it were Luton who spent the least and built on their strengths. What people don't seem to recognise is that prices are inflated when you're a PL buying club, and spending £10-£15m these days is a pittance and isn't buying you quality, only potential. So whilst 6 x £15m players might sound great, you're probably signing 6 players other clubs have turned their nose up and are likely no better than what you have.

When it comes to us, we should have been better than we were. It took too long for VK to adapt to the PL, and when he did we became too passive and it clearly wasn’t in VK’s skillset to set up a team that was mainly difficult to beat. It also didn’t help that the board got giddy with the recruitment success of the Championship season and allowed VK and the recruitment team to become like kids in a sweet shop. Too many players signed, and of a similar types did not help. You could see that in the constant tweaks to team selection, whilst in the early days the naïve tactics threw decent defensive players under the bus. I still think that with a different type of manager we would have had a good chance of staying up, even with the players we bought.

[dsr]

Most was spent on players without prem experience or players with potential that weren't going to be cut out for a relegation battle.

Trafford
Odobert
Amdouni
O'Shea
Tresor

That's between 50-100 million pounds on players that couldn't really offer anything to help keep is up.
Berge was an excellent signing but he's the only one. It's no coincidence that he was older and had a lot more experience.

A centre half and a central midfielder with Premier league experience would be absolutely key. In fact I'd sell Trafford immediately on promotion to build the budget, we know he isn't suited to a relegation battle, he needs to be in a better side and we could use the 30 to 40 mill elsewhere

Michael Keane would be the first one through the door for me.

I agree with all but the Trafford statement. He may not have been suited to last year's relegation battle, but what keeper would be with the defence he had in front of him? Put him behind a stout defence like this year, and when he is called on he has made some excellent saves.

[boyyanno]

I think the gap seems so big because everyone wants to do the same thing but with inferior players. There's a reason Luton ended up closer than us last time out.

I'd be hopeful that if we do go up we'll be more pragmatic this time around.

[Darnhill Claret]

Goliath, only opinions I know, but don't like any of your 4 suggested signings. If Trafford does go this summer, maybe there is a case to 'consider' Ramsdale, but to me he hasn't 'trained on'.
I was really impressed by one goalie performance, but although the performance was memorable, I have forgotten who it was. Think it might have been the P'mouth keeper against Leeds.
And the Cardiff striker who caused us problems reminded me of a 'slightly less mobile' Mitrovic. Not sure if he is young enough to be still considered as 'potential'.
Hopefully Bauress might continue to progress as well. Maybe an Aug to Jan loan to a play-off chasing Championship club would continue his match playing education.

[Goliath]

I agree with all but the Trafford statement. He may not have been suited to last year's relegation battle, but what keeper would be with the defence he had in front of him? Put him behind a stout defence like this year, and when he is called on he has made some excellent saves.

Why take the risk. Another dodgy season at Prem level and his value plummets. It's best for both parties for him to go. Ramsdale is a decent keeper and would be more than adequate replacement, preferably on loan because I'm sure wages would be an issue.

We'd probably need 2 full backs, 2 centre backs, 2 central midfielders, 2 wingers and a striker to have a chance of competing. We need the Trafford money.

Something like this wouldn't be a terrible window. It'd be a higher wage burden but much lower on individual transfer fees.

Ramsdale (loan), Mee (free), Keane (free), Winks, Dewsbury-Hall (loan), Ings (free), Walker-Peters, Marcus Edwards, Tella.

Good mixture of experience, and youth and would leave funds for a big signing or two.

[Goliath]

Goliath, only opinions I know, but don't like any of your 4 suggested signings. If Trafford does go this summer, maybe there is a case to 'consider' Ramsdale, but to me he hasn't 'trained on'.
I was really impressed by one goalie performance, but although the performance was memorable, I have forgotten who it was. Think it might have been the P'mouth keeper against Leeds.
And the Cardiff striker who caused us problems reminded me of a 'slightly less mobile' Mitrovic. Not sure if he is young enough to be still considered as 'potential'.
Hopefully Bauress might continue to progress as well. Maybe an Aug to Jan loan to a play-off chasing Championship club would continue his match playing education.

That's fine, I just think Ramsdale would be a quick and easy one giving us Premier league experience and a good character in the dressing room. If you start going into the lower leagues we risk finding a keeper who struggles with the pressure of the Premier league. How would they deal with all the scrutiny from pundits after a mistake?
It's the position where personality and experience is the absolute key. I'd be trying to get Heaton back at the club in some capacity for that exact reason. His mental side of the game was absolutely flawless and he was a brilliant ambassador for the club. 3rd choice/goalkeeper coaching role might tempt him

[RVclaret]

Rule number 1 of promotion - don’t sell your best players.

Selling the keeper behind an English football record of clean sheets would be utter madness.

[Goliath]

Rule number 1 of promotion - don’t sell your best players.

Selling the keeper behind an English football record of clean sheets would be utter madness.

Well that's a made up rule. I think it's an absolute no brainer to sell him and I think the chairman will probably agree.
It would be a very moneyball type decision, sometimes you have to sell an important player to improve the group.

[Darnhill Claret]

Mee, Keane, Winks, Ings are all definitely not to be signed, even if they weren't high earners. 3 of them are past their best and Harry Winks is overrated, purely because he was at a big club. To my mind Winks and Cullen would be competing for the same shirt, so maybe we have to look for someone on £5k a week less than Cullen until he becomes the first choice and then maybe we will have to renegotiate his contract.

Maybe we will need to encourage players to come here by promising to review contracts at the end of a season if they start 49% or more of games, or a mutually agreed % figure. We need to find something flexible, achievable and mutually agreeable that inspires players to try to realise their career ambitions with us, whether it be just in the short term or longer than that.

We have to accept and embrace the fact that some career ambitions will not stop at Burnley Football Club. In fact I only want players coming here with loftier ambitions than just us. Then it is our job to persuade them that they can reach higher heights with us, than they initially thought.

Mister Parker and Mister Pace are constantly doing that, I expect.
I'm hoping that there is a work in progress, with Traff, CJ and Steve, individually and as a TEAM. Not just them either.

[dsr]

Why take the risk. Another dodgy season at Prem level and his value plummets. It's best for both parties for him to go. Ramsdale is a decent keeper and would be more than adequate replacement, preferably on loan because I'm sure wages would be an issue.

We'd probably need 2 full backs, 2 centre backs, 2 central midfielders, 2 wingers and a striker to have a chance of competing. We need the Trafford money.

Something like this wouldn't be a terrible window. It'd be a higher wage burden but much lower on individual transfer fees.

Ramsdale (loan), Mee (free), Keane (free), Winks, Dewsbury-Hall (loan), Ings (free), Walker-Peters, Marcus Edwards, Tella.

Good mixture of experience, and youth and would leave funds for a big signing or two.

Kompany tried ditching the team that took us up and buying a new team. Didn't work. Of the current side, I would start with the idea of keeping Trafford, Roberts, Humphries, Esteve, Egan-Riley, Edwards, Cullen and finding replacements for the others. Then go after better players to replace those named, if we have the funds.

[Herts Clarets]

Why on earth would we consider signing Danny Ings? He has averaged 20 games a season since he left us 10 years ago, so half a season either out of favour or out injured. And that's before you factor in wages......

[Goliath]

Kompany tried ditching the team that took us up and buying a new team. Didn't work. Of the current side, I would start with the idea of keeping Trafford, Roberts, Humphries, Esteve, Egan-Riley, Edwards, Cullen and finding replacements for the others. Then go after better players to replace those named, if we have the funds.

We need a bench that can impact games, it's not just the first 11. 2 players that can compete for each position at least.

Ramsdale/New/Heaton (player/coach)

Roberts/New/Walker Peters
Egan-Riley/Keane
Esteve/Mee/Humphreys
Humphreys/Pires/Walker-Peters

Cullen/Winks/Dewsbury-Hall/Brownhill/Hannibal

Edwards/Benson
Tella/Anthony/Foster

(NEW)/Foster/Ings

Sell Trafford, Worrall, Sonne to bring in funds and free up space and release a few as well.

Aware I've completely got ahead of myself here

[RVclaret]

Well that's a made up rule. I think it's an absolute no brainer to sell him and I think the chairman will probably agree.
It would be a very moneyball type decision, sometimes you have to sell an important player to improve the group.

Both Leicester and Sheff U are two very recent examples of teams who sold their best player(s) after being promoted.

The term #moneyball gets thrown around so much these days I think it’s lost its meaning.

[boyyanno]

Kompany tried ditching the team that took us up and buying a new team. Didn't work. Of the current side, I would start with the idea of keeping Trafford, Roberts, Humphries, Esteve, Egan-Riley, Edwards, Cullen and finding replacements for the others. Then go after better players to replace those named, if we have the funds.

To be fair whilst I wouldn't want to ditch anyone at the moment sometimes you do have to make decisions to push the team forward. I'd be advocating for making all of the loans permanent (Apart from Sarmiento). That's a 30-40m spend to maintain the level we are at.

In addition I think we'd then need at least the following to try and push on to PL level:

Striker
Midfielder
Winger
Right back
Left back

That could well be another 50-100m needed.

If selling Trafford for 30-40m and bringing in a Pope enabled us to achieve the above then i wouldn't be against it. But obviously A: what you do with the money and B: who the replacement is are absolutely crucial.

[RVclaret]

I'd be advocating for making all of the loans permanent (Apart from Sarmiento). That's a 30-40m spend to maintain the level we are at.

I’d suggest only Anthony and Edwards will be within this coming summers budget at £10m and £8m respectively. Humphreys and Flemming will already be accounted for from this season (they are obligations), given we received £110m+ inbound. I’d bet both their deals were cash flow related or PSR related than anything.

[Goliath]

Both Leicester and Sheff U are two very recent examples of teams who sold their best player(s) after being promoted.

The term #moneyball gets thrown around so much these days I think it’s lost its meaning.

I agree with your moneyball comment but this would be the very definition of it. I think there'd be a possibility of us selling Esteve as well but that would be a step too far for me.

Theoretically though, losing Trafford and Eateve for a combined 80 million. Replacing with Mee on a free and Ramsdale would give us a hell of a lot of money and may in some ways make us more suited to the task at hand.
That would definitely be along the lines of the moneyball concept.

[boyyanno]

I’d suggest only Anthony and Edwards will be within this coming summers budget at £10m and £8m respectively. Humphreys and Flemming will already be accounted for from this season (they are obligations), given we received £110m+ inbound. I’d bet both their deals were cash flow related or PSR related than anything.

Yeah that's a fair point.

[boyyanno]

I agree with your moneyball comment but this would be the very definition of it. I think there'd be a possibility of us selling Esteve as well but that would be a step too far for me.

Theoretically though, losing Trafford and Eateve for a combined 80 million. Replacing with Mee on a free and Ramsdale would give us a hell of a lot of money and may in some ways make us more suited to the task at hand.
That would definitely be along the lines of the moneyball concept.

Mike Garlick is that you

[RVclaret]

I agree with your moneyball comment but this would be the very definition of it. I think there'd be a possibility of us selling Esteve as well but that would be a step too far for me.

Theoretically though, losing Trafford and Eateve for a combined 80 million. Replacing with Mee on a free and Ramsdale would give us a hell of a lot of money and may in some ways make us more suited to the task at hand.
That would definitely be along the lines of the moneyball concept.

Would it? Moneyball, in the film and book, was about finding obscure talent, for cheap, that others might overlook because of a certain deficiency. We paid £14-19m for Trafford, who had just won the Euros and played for Man City, I don’t see it. A strategy of buying younger players to develop and sell for profit (as a means of growing/being sustainable) is where we seemed to land.

And Pace showed last time he can find the money without needing to sell players (only after relegation), though. So I don’t see why selling anyone is required when you get the Premier League pot anyway, plus the debt financing ALK have shown they can and will do (albeit probably less than last time).

[Murger]

If Trafford has a chance to go Newcastle where he’ll double his wages, then he’ll go. I’d be going after the Stoke keeper, or Cooper if Sheff Utd don’t go up.

[Stan Tastic]

Why take the risk. Another dodgy season at Prem level and his value plummets. It's best for both parties for him to go. Ramsdale is a decent keeper and would be more than adequate replacement, preferably on loan because I'm sure wages would be an issue.

We'd probably need 2 full backs, 2 centre backs, 2 central midfielders, 2 wingers and a striker to have a chance of competing. We need the Trafford money.

Something like this wouldn't be a terrible window. It'd be a higher wage burden but much lower on individual transfer fees.

Ramsdale (loan), Mee (free), Keane (free), Winks, Dewsbury-Hall (loan), Ings (free), Walker-Peters, Marcus Edwards, Tella.

Good mixture of experience, and youth and would leave funds for a big signing or two.

April Fools Day still delivering.

[Raconteur]

Would it? Moneyball, in the film and book, was about finding obscure talent, for cheap, that others might overlook because of a certain deficiency. We paid £14-19m for Trafford, who had just won the Euros and played for Man City, I don’t see it. A strategy of buying younger players to develop and sell for profit (as a means of growing/being sustainable) is where we seemed to land.

And Pace showed last time he can find the money without needing to sell players (only after relegation), though. So I don’t see why selling anyone is required when you get the Premier League pot anyway, plus the debt financing ALK have shown they can and will do (albeit probably less than last time).

That's spot on . Money all is all about using advanced statistical analysis to identify and acquire undervalued players.