Newly promoted teams over the years

[ChrisG]

There's a lot of talk around in the news, and on here about how the newly promoted teams will likely go straight back down due to the strength and money available in the Premier League.

I was born in 1983, so I started watching football properly in the early 90s which obviously coincides with the advent of the PL.

A cursory glance at historical league tables shows that the big city clubs have always dominated the league, and to some extent European competition as well. This suggests that money has always made things easier, as if it was more of a level playing field then surely we could have more silverware given our time in the upper echelons of English football.

This got me wondering, has it always been the case where promoted teams would struggle, or is this a relatively new phenomenon? Was there more chance of a Leicester City happening in the 70s for example, or has the disparity in wealth always been there, albeit not on as wide a scale?

It would be interesting to hear the thoughts on here.

[randomclaret2]

The disparity has never been as stark as it is now. Forest for example were promoted, then won the title, then the European Cup...utterly inconceivable nowadays, and there are many other examples over the years of promoted clubs immediately being succesful in the top division.

[Claretmisterg]

When we won the old division 2 in 1973 with the team of the 70s we were challenging near the top of division one for much of the following season. We fell off towards the end, due largely to losing Frank Casper to injuries, and finished sixth. I have always thought we could have finished higher.

[randomclaret2]

Ipswich won the Title in 62, leaving us in second, having only been promoted the previous season.

[mickleoverclaret]

Even the likes of Reading and Ipswich going up and then getting top half finishes in the early 2000s wouldn't happen anymore.

[Colburn_Claret]

Ipswich won the Title in 62, leaving us in second, having only been promoted the previous season.

With a little help from Sheffield Wednesday.

[Bosscat]

Even the likes of Reading and Ipswich going up and then getting top half finishes in the early 2000s wouldn't happen anymore.

Wigan were a similar example if memory serves ...

[Fretters]

Wigan were a similar example if memory serves ...

Didn't Wolves go up and get two 7th place finishes in a row too? Though that was quite recent.

[distortiondave]

At least we'll have the nervous excitement and hope for overachievement for next season. What have West Ham or Palace or Brentford got to look forward to? Finishing between 9th and 16th?

[Dazzler]

With a little help from Sheffield Wednesday.

I don't know where you're coming from with that...
Ipswich had already won the title two days before we lost 4-0 at Wednesday.

[ChrisG]

Interesting comments, and it does indeed appear that the gap is widening nowadays.

[mdd2]

Money talks but sometimes with a stammer.If you have most of the money you can buy more success but not every season.
Sadly if were were lucky enough to end up in the top half of the league next season we would lose our better players in the close season due to our inability to match wages offered by the bigger clubs.

[Colburn_Claret]

I don't know where you're coming from with that...
Ipswich had already won the title two days before we lost 4-0 at Wednesday.

Peter Swan and Tony Kay got done for deliberately throwing their game against Ipswich, and betting on Ipswich, Dec 1962. I think they got jailed for it, not that it helped us.

[Dazzler]

Peter Swan and Tony Kay got done for deliberately throwing their game against Ipswich, and betting on Ipswich, Dec 1962. I think they got jailed for it, not that it helped us.

Oh yeah.

You know what, I came across that online somewhere a few months back, but it didn't dawn on me that it could possibly have had a damaging effect on Burnley for that season.

[mickleoverclaret]

Peter Swan and Tony Kay got done for deliberately throwing their game against Ipswich, and betting on Ipswich, Dec 1962. I think they got jailed for it, not that it helped us.

December 1962 would have been the season after, wouldn't it?

[Falcon]

As much as all the talk has been of how hard it is to stay up, we should remember that we only have to finish higher than 3 other clubs, not all 19 of them, and 2 of them will have come up with us. So realistically, you only have to finish higher than 1 'established PL club' and that is not inconceivable.

[Dazzler]

December 1962 would have been the season after, wouldn't it?

'Senior moment' from Colburn there, I think.

[Dazzler]

'Senior moment' from Colburn there, I think.

And from me, I have to say.

[Dazzler]

Going back to the 61/62 season, looking at the last few months, you could possibly be forgiven for thinking that the run to the FA Cup Final was detrimental to our chances of winning the title.

Our last 16 league games yielded just 14 points. W4 D6 L6 with 5 Cup games somewhere in between.
Ipswich W10 D5 L1 gaining 25pts. No distraction from Cup games

[Corway]

Peter Swan and Tony Kay got done for deliberately throwing their game against Ipswich, and betting on Ipswich, Dec 1962. I think they got jailed for it, not that it helped us.

Interesting Colburn. Didn’t know Swan threw Ipswich game The title that slipped away.
Had they lost we would have won the title having scored 8 more goals 101 and both had conceded 67.
We lost to Sheff Wed 4-0 on the last day of April a month when we played 10 league and only got 8 points. We also had one semifinal replay game.
Jimmy McIroy said their legs went. In those days no subs allowed. We played 42 league and 8 cup Matches and suffered more than most from cancelled games due to snow and our cup run.

The maximum wage cap was abolished in 1961 and Clubs lost the power via the ‘retain and transfer’ system, which bound players to their employer so that even at the end of their contract, they could only leave with the club’s consent. Moneyed city clubs could then rise to dominance and town clubs struggled to compete.

The following year Alf Ramsey left to manage England afte Jimmy Adamson our captain, turned it down and they came 17th. A year later came bottom and were relegated.

[Dazzler]

Interesting Colburn. Didn’t know Swan threw Ipswich game The title that slipped away.
Had they lost we would have won the title having scored 8 more goals 101 and both had conceded 67.
We lost to Sheff Wed 4-0 on the last day of April a month when we played 10 league and only got 8 points. We also had one semifinal replay game.
Jimmy McIroy said their legs went. In those days no subs allowed. We played 42 league and 8 cup Matches and suffered more than most from cancelled games due to snow and our cup run.

The maximum wage cap was abolished in 1961 and Clubs lost the power via the ‘retain and transfer’ system, which bound players to their employer so that even at the end of their contract, they could only leave with the club’s consent. Moneyed city clubs could then rise to dominance and town clubs struggled to compete.

The following year Alf Ramsey left to manage England afte Jimmy Adamson our captain, turned it down and they came 17th. A year later came bottom and were relegated.

December 1962 would have been the season after, wouldn't it?

[jollyjack]

What I think has changed from the 70s is that a good coach/manager could make a massive difference to a Club which would elevate them to a level above their natural one. Ramsey at Ipswich, Cloughy at Derby then Forest, Revie at Leeds and Shankly at Liverpool saw those clubs experience "golden age". Liverpols succession Paisley/Fagan/Dalgleish led them to establish themselves permanantly, the others have all ebbed and flowed since. Making a winning team from only slightly above average players with unconventional tactics for the day meant smaller clubs ourselves included, could legitmately dream of the right coach and squad reaching the top. These days its seen as a miracle defying the economic realities of the PL.