Turf Moor Development

[Vegas Claret]

We dont need a bigger stand for home fans but in the PL we are deffo missing out on revenue by having such a small away end

[Spike]

Develop the team first

[NewClaret]

What's your thinking behind that? Palace AVG 25k. Call it £500 for 4,000 extra ST's and that's 2 million a season extra in the kitty. Obviously won't be exactly like that but you get the jist. Practically negligible when considering the sums on offer in the PL so presume youre thinking of some other benefit I'm not grasping?

I wasn’t meaning financially, really, although extra income is useful. Aside from the tickets sales, expansion would:

- open up the option for dedicated away hospitality, which would be lucrative for both away corporates and fans usually unable to get away tickets.

- increase food and beverage spending (especially away fans, who, let’s face it, are usually on a session).

- potentially increase in ground advertising revenues.

My point was really more about image though. Longer term if we want to attract the best players, have a competitive atmosphere, be (more) attractive to investors and partners, I think you need to be on a par with your competition with things like ground and capacity.

[NewClaret]

Turf has barely been full this season despite our success. On Sky etc the Jimmy Mac lower looks shocking when it’s always half full. I’d definitely prefer a tighter ground, lower capacity and obv with that generate a better atmosphere. Brentford built a new stadium and knew their limit at 19,000. Full every game and looks great.

I don’t think Brentford would be full if they got relegated to the Championship to be fair. Ditto Brighton, but look how they’ve grown and now fill a big stadium. People will say City vs Town but we’re also a club steeped in history with and have a large-ish total catchment area too.

I think we should be doing way more to be getting people in - better pricing, more deals (family tickets, parent and child offers, etc), proper advertising of games and ticket availability both on our socials and external marketing, etc. And for any still unsold, we should be working with the community team to be shifting them to less fortunate parts of our communities, good causes, local schools, colleges, the Uni students, football clubs, etc.

I feel we’re super lazy on packing the Turf and growing the fanbase.

I agree with you about a tight ground. That’s my number one criteria. Get the pitch and the stands as close together as possible. There’d be no opportunity for long throws if I were in charge

[Wokingclaret]

Turf has barely been full this season despite our success. On Sky etc the Jimmy Mac lower looks shocking when it’s always half full. I’d definitely prefer a tighter ground, lower capacity and obv with that generate a better atmosphere. Brentford built a new stadium and knew their limit at 19,000. Full every game and looks great.

Its lower than that RV 17250

They may have to move again in the future

[NewClaret]

I would much rather the club and council worked together to do something about the surrounding area. The work under the culvert and what's been done to the center looks nice but something now needs to be done from the prinny royal to the Belvedere road junction. It looks like Damascus once Putin and Isis had finished up with it.

True this. It’s not helped by many of the building along that stretch being owned by the same property company, who have shown a complete disregard for the buildings by putting UPVC windows in an old Victorian pub, for example, and then garish plastic signs all over it.

The shop fronts along that stretch are a disgrace by and large. Like you, I’d love to see a combined club/council effort to improve things.

Many will say the lead up to the ground and the state of privately owned property is nothing to do with the club, which is true, but it is all part of the supporter experience and would love to see them use their combined influence to help get the place tidied up.

[MansfieldHighClaret]

I have always thought there were expansion opportunities for the Bob Lord stand, when you view it carefully from a number of angles, it does appear that it would be feasible to extend and almost double the size. You would think with design and building technology these days, this would be a sensible option.

[getbennyon]

I don't think there's any evidence that the highest demand since the 60's shows that we'd regularly sell 25k home tickets.

Empty seats:
1. Ruin the atmosphere
2. End up filled by away fans.

The evidence is overwhelming, there is more demand for tickets at all games(home and away)since the 1960's.

Your two positions are inconsistent

1. Ruin the atmosphere - if the ground is 30,000 and 29,000 tickets sold that will ruin the atmosphere? hmm
2. End up filled by away fans. - Who cares? Besides this would improve the atmosphere.

It's weird that people are afraid of empty seats however if you are afraid then we need to lower capacity and increase ticket prices... Better atmosphere and more revenue.

[clitheroeclaret3]

I had about 15 people asking me for tickets haha. If you’d have put them on Facebook on a public thread they’d have gone in minutes

or the club ticket page, showing as pretty much a sell out for days

[theduke]

I think I read somewhere that the new Everton stadium has the same number of non-hospitality tickets as Goodison despite it being considerably larger.

That's not true. Not even close. There's about 10k more normal seats

[Woodleyclaret]

Always team before stadium.. Us older fans remember the building of "The Martin Dobson" stand aka Bob Lord Stand" built with money from Martins sale to Everton and our subsequent tumble down to Div 4 as the team development was starved of funds.
I would make the Cricket field stand entirely home fans with a standing area at the rear and seated in front.. The away fans I would relocate to the lower North stand as there is easy access for entrance and policing there

[Juan Tanamera]

I don't think there's any evidence that the highest demand since the 60's shows that we'd regularly sell 25k home tickets.

Empty seats:
1. Ruin the atmosphere
2. End up filled by away fans.

I've no evidence to back this up, but every now and again the 'story' pops up about our 7k waiting list for season tickets.
If this is anywhere near true then maybe the demand is there.
Who knows for sure?

[Transpennine]

The evidence is overwhelming, there is more demand for tickets at all games(home and away)since the 1960's.

Your two positions are inconsistent

1. Ruin the atmosphere - if the ground is 30,000 and 29,000 tickets sold that will ruin the atmosphere? hmm
2. End up filled by away fans. - Who cares? Besides this would improve the atmosphere.

It's weird that people are afraid of empty seats however if you are afraid then we need to lower capacity and increase ticket prices... Better atmosphere and more revenue.

Just to clarify, I'm not afraid of empty seats. It doesnt bother me that much. Im just offering an opinion. However, in response:
1. I don't believe there is any chance of us regularly selling 25k home tickets. We never have, and i don't believe there's ever been 5k home fans unable to get tickets for any match in the last 10,20,30 or 40 years that I've been watching.
Furthermore, I think that the newer sky tv deals with increased matches being shown will reduce this demand.

2. Kindly disagree. Big away followings drown out the home noise and negate the home advantage. Isn't that why we put home fans back in the CFS a few years ago?

This is just my opinion. You disagree, no bother at all, life's all about opinions. All the best. UTC

[Clovius Boofus]

The Council and planning appeals panels have made it clear that they oppose both a move for BCC or

Also the council would be on a hiding to nothing if they sold off any of OUR parkland at Towneley. The same goes for Fulledge.

[NickBFC]

I don’t think Brentford would be full if they got relegated to the Championship to be fair. Ditto Brighton, but look how they’ve grown and now fill a big stadium. People will say City vs Town but we’re also a club steeped in history with and have a large-ish total catchment area too.

I've lived in Sussex for nearly 40 years - a huge amount of 'fans' going to the Amex support the 'big' clubs and watch Brighton because it's local and not bad value for Premier League football. The ground is right by a large University too which must help numbers through the gate.

[NewClaret]

I've lived in Sussex for nearly 40 years - a huge amount of 'fans' going to the Amex support the 'big' clubs and watch Brighton because it's local and not bad value for Premier League football. The ground is right by a large University too which must help numbers through the gate.

Yes, I have a friend from Brighton. United fan, naturally

He said exactly the same. Some are plastics, previously big club fans that’ve switched, but mainly worse than that - two team fans!

[Quickenthetempo]

Would having loans out with the ground as collateral stop any major developments?

If you bulldozed a stand it would obviously knock money off the valuation of the ground until the new stand is complete?

[Pickles]

If people are using Brighton as the example to aspire to then deary me, I'd rather we do the total opposite. A shiny bowl of a stadium miles from the city centre and therefore terrible to get to. And filled with plastic Man United fans who're only there because they couldn't point to Manchester on a map. No thanks.

[aggi]

That's not true. Not even close. There's about 10k more normal seats

Possibly I was thinking of another development then but Everton have been rather secretive about how many season tickets have been sold.

[Quickenthetempo]

Possibly I was thinking of another development then but Everton have been rather secretive about how many season tickets have been sold.

They only added another 3k STs from 13k extra seats.

Corporate and day trippers bring more money in.

[ClaretPete001]

Brighton has a far bigger catchment area and less competition.

I see little point in extending the capacity other than as part of a general development and upgrading plan. 25,000 seater stadium is not going to make much difference commercially and would cost the club a lot of money.

The only way forward for Burnley is to do what Garlick/ Dyche did, which is to build a resilient squad based upon a whole club football philosophy and work to a sustainable budget.

Being a YoYo club with big debts is not the way forward for us and while the club can increase commercial revenues it would be with the purpose of succeeding in the Championship because nothing we can do commercially will make the PL fireproof. The downside is we won't get the attendances in the Championship.

I think the best version of ourselves as a YoYo club with sustainable debts is good enough for us. To be honest, the Championship is more fun than the PL. We need the PL to make us stronger in the Championship.

The PL is turning into a bit of a Yawn fest.

[dibraidio]

Its lower than that RV 17250

They may have to move again in the future

I believe that Brentford's stadium was designed with expansion to around 30,000 a possibility.

Alan Pace said he will have to consider replacing the Bob Lord or the Cricket Field stand at some point but I'd think that neither will be a priority this season. I would expect hospitality to play a big part in any new stand. It looks like there's space for a small extension to the Bob Lord with a tier above the road front buildings which would require a new roof and could be built above the existing stand but it would probably only add a thousand or so seats. They could add a few rows in front of the Bob Lord because it's so far above the pitch, you'd only be talking a couple of hundred seats though.

[mikeS]

As part of the grounds development in 1967, Bob Lord bought a strip of land 30 yards wide and 183 yards long stretching from Brunshaw Road across the back of the Cricket field end to accommodate the building of the new stand. The Express report said it cost "a few thousand pounds." Maybe the Board could approach the Cricket Club again to see if they would sell a similar piece of land if thats needed to build a replacement / two-tier job like the other two.

[JR1882]

If we are likely to go down anyway, may as well go down with updated/improved infrastructure - As per the training ground a few years back which has served us very well since.

[Goobs]

The market value of the Cricket Club isn’t the issue
It’s what they would lose on match day sales that is the problem

If that is the only issue then just build a bar there and let them have the takings. Not rocket science really.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Didn’t Liverpool build a tunnel for the road that goes under their new stand? Possibility with the bob lord hahaha 3 tier mammoth stand with a hotel and huge corporate area.

[elwaclaret]

I have always thought there were expansion opportunities for the Bob Lord stand, when you view it carefully from a number of angles, it does appear that it would be feasible to extend and almost double the size. You would think with design and building technology these days, this would be a sensible option.

The Bob Lord Stand was designed so that another tier could be added when required later… it wasn’t thought it would be so much later and would probably need some reinforcement but the room for it was built into the original plan.

[morninbob]

Didn’t Liverpool build a tunnel for the road that goes under their new stand? Possibility with the bob lord hahaha 3 tier mammoth stand with a hotel and huge corporate area.

No, but villa's main stand has a tunnel.

[Burnley1989]

The evidence is overwhelming, there is more demand for tickets at all games(home and away)since the 1960's.

Your two positions are inconsistent

1. Ruin the atmosphere - if the ground is 30,000 and 29,000 tickets sold that will ruin the atmosphere? hmm
2. End up filled by away fans. - Who cares? Besides this would improve the atmosphere.

It's weird that people are afraid of empty seats however if you are afraid then we need to lower capacity and increase ticket prices... Better atmosphere and more revenue.

Clubs like Blackburn & PNE, hate the fact they have such big away allocations. Personally id hate to give more than 15%

[Burnley1989]

As part of the grounds development in 1967, Bob Lord bought a strip of land 30 yards wide and 183 yards long stretching from Brunshaw Road across the back of the Cricket field end to accommodate the building of the new stand. The Express report said it cost "a few thousand pounds." Maybe the Board could approach the Cricket Club again to see if they would sell a similar piece of land if thats needed to build a replacement / two-tier job like the other two.

Imo,
You can forget the whole club buying cricket club land, it will never happen unless they build a criket pavillion into the stand. They wont and neither should they move, its a community asset.

[Corway]

will Alan Pace and our Board of Directors be considering whether now is the time to finally explore the development of Turf Moor.

Doesn’t seem to be mentioned at FAB but maybe the question could be asked that way.

We had to build new areas for disabled people. Was the chance taken to expand capacity. They don’t look busy. Could they offer opportunities

Paul Fletcher came in to rebuild the Cricket Field stand as a StadiArena then left.

I remember the disaster after the Brunshaw Rd stand was demolished to build Bob Lords legacy and we played with no stand and smaller crowds for many months till Martin Dobsons sale allowed it to restart.
If there’s a sponsor then that might make it feasible.

[Claretitus]

[quote=getbennyon post_id=2544248 time=<a href="tel:1745563236">1745563236</a> user_id=8472]
The evidence is overwhelming, there is more demand for tickets at all games(home and away)since the 1960's.

Your two positions are inconsistent

1. Ruin the atmosphere - if the ground is 30,000 and 29,000 tickets sold that will ruin the atmosphere? hmm
2. End up filled by away fans. - Who cares? Besides this would improve the atmosphere.

It's weird that people are afraid of empty seats however if you are afraid then we need to lower capacity and increase ticket prices... Better atmosphere and more revenue.

Clubs like Blackburn & PNE, hate the fact they have such big away allocations. Personally id hate to give more than 15%
[/quote]

They only hate it coz there’s often more away fans in their ground than home ( more often at Deadwood than Dumpdale)

[MansfieldHighClaret]

It’s a great point Burnley1989 makes, restricting the away support to the current number ensures our home support has a real chance of drowning or at least competing with the away following. Another 3000 home supporters in an extended or upper Bob Lord tier would also IMO make the Turf a far more aesthetically pleasing ground, it’s always looked a little out of proportion since the two larger stands were erected.

[AlargeClaret]

I find it incredible in this day and age that structurally we can’t demolish the CFS and replace it with a 2 tier job without encroaching on the cricket field . We probs need about 27-30k and desperately need to expand the embarrassing away allocation .

[brexit]

Turf has barely been full this season despite our success. On Sky etc the Jimmy Mac lower looks shocking when it’s always half full. I’d definitely prefer a tighter ground, lower capacity and obv with that generate a better atmosphere. Brentford built a new stadium and knew their limit at 19,000. Full every game and looks great.

I remember talking to someone from the club a couple of years back, and they thought that local supporters of premiership teams, i.e. utd, city etc had bought season tickets so that they could watch their supported club when they played at the turf. When they weren't attending, they "sold" their tickets to mates. He reckoned there could be around 500 of these ST holders.
I am not sure if it is true, but there are always seats held by ST holders that are empty most of the season.