Tarkowski _MNF

[warksclaret]

Did anyone watch the close of Monday Night Football on Sky Sports last night when Tarkowski and Jamie Carragher were pundits for the Palace v Forest game. They did a resume of Tarkowski's career starting with his time in the Blackburn Academy where he was a striker and later at Oldham, Brentford, Burnley and now Everton.

He was the best defender I have seen in our shirt, but the stats they showed since his PL debut for Burnley in 2018 were magnificent. I cannot remember all the stats but in those 7 years , compared to every other PL defender he has come out top in around 6 categories including most arial duels won, most tackles won, most clearances, most interceptions, plus he has chipped in with a number of goals.

In that 2018 season him, Ben Mee and Jack Heaton were incredible. Will always like the guy, who whilst running his contract down with us was great right to the last game.

[Goliath]

To be honest I was never his biggest fan. I thought he was a bit slow and clumsy and think he was cowardly in the tackle.

Can't deny he was a good player for us though but definitely think Keane at his best was a step above him.

[Greenmile]

Jack Heaton?

[bumba]

Absolutely quality defender, how he hasn't had many England caps is beyond me especially when you see the rubbish that gets picked

[bobinho]

Not many England caps because he’s slower than a week in jail.

Good defender, but we’ve had better tbh.

Keane (for us) better.
McGreal better.
Esteve better.

There are others that I could argue for but those three are obvious.

I always liked him to be fair. Limited pace, turning circle like a supertanker, but robust and reliable. Smart enough to know when to take one for the team. Overall, a good solid defender, but limited.

[martin_p]

Not many England caps because he’s slower than a week in jail.

Good defender, but we’ve had better tbh.

Keane (for us) better.
McGreal better.
Esteve better.

There are others that I could argue for but those three are obvious.

I always liked him to be fair. Limited pace, turning circle like a supertanker, but robust and reliable. Smart enough to know when to take one for the team. Overall, a good solid defender, but limited.

I’d argue that out of those three only Esteve is better. McGreal may have been better in his Tranmere/Ipswich days, but not for us.

[ClaretTony]

Keane (for us) better.
McGreal better.
Esteve better.

Keane - outstandingly good for us and had the benefit of pace, but not sure I'd be encouraged to place him ahead of Tarky
McGreal - outstanding also for us in a lower division but in his entire career he started just 25 Premier League games
Estève - unbelievable season but I'm not sure too many would have been bothered last summer had we not signed him, let's look at him when he's played more than 15 PL games.

I remain baffled that Tarky hasn't played more games for England. And he's played 288 PL games now. You don't play that many unless you are right up there. Hadn't missed a game for Everton since joining them until last week.

[Tall Paul]

Let's see how Esteve gets on in the PL before rating him better than Tarks.

[Dyched]

Since we finished 7th in 17/18 the first season Tarkowski started regularly for us after Keane left. Plenty of the top 6 sides have been weak at the back at various stages right up to the current season. That as well as the lack of England call ups really show how limited he is.

[NewClaret]

Let's see how Esteve gets on in the PL before rating him better than Tarks.

Agree with your sentiment, but we have had a little insight in to that. We did much better after January with him in the team (and Assignon, whose contribution I think was somewhat underrated) - and that was playing under Kompany with his not so defensively-friendly tactics. I’d expect him to look better under Parker.

Time will tell but I agree we need a longer run at that level to draw conclusions.

[Woodleyclaret]

Tarks kept Everton up for 2 seasons his reading of the game is 2nd to none.If he'd played for any top 6 side the media would have brayed for him to get into the England team.The picking of Mcguire and Burn was a prime example of bias.

[claretcarrot93]

After Berge Esteve was our best player in Prem

[ashtonlongsider]

Tarks is the best defender i've ever seen play for us. Like others, i'am astounded he hasn't played more games for England.

[Enola Gay]

I suspect the reason he hasn't played more games for England is because he's seen as more of an old-fashioned, throw-your-body-on-the-line defender of a type that England (a team who tend to dominate possession and territory in about 90% of the games they play) largely don't need. And for the other 10% of games, usually against the better/top sides, I think he's just short of the required pace and mobility. He didn't shine on his debut against Italy from what I remember.

A perfectly good player in the Premier League but just lacking the skillset for international games. You could argue he'd be a great player to have on the bench for games at the business ends of tournaments and need a more solid prescence at the back late in a game when they might be under pressure, but how often does that happen?

Not sure his take-everything tackling style would be suited to international refereeing either. That tackle against Liverpool would probably be a red 99 times out of 100 in a tournament.

[HB Claret]

Did they discuss Tarkowski’s “tackle” on McAllister ?

[Socrates]

I love Tarks, but there’s a reason he hasn’t played for a top 6 side.

He’s ideally suited to low block teams where he’s defending his box and heading/clearing crosses away.

Playing for a top 6 side with a high line and 50 yards of space behind him is a totally different requirement. With his lack of pace I think he’d get murdered having to defend that way at the top level.

[ClaretTony]

Agree with your sentiment, but we have had a little insight in to that. We did much better after January with him in the team (and Assignon, whose contribution I think was somewhat underrated) - and that was playing under Kompany with his not so defensively-friendly tactics. I’d expect him to look better under Parker.

Time will tell but I agree we need a longer run at that level to draw conclusions.

We continued to concede goals at over 2 per game from when Estève came in. There was no change in the rate we were conceding goals.

[NottsClaret]

Yeah, was about to say the same. He's a quality Prem defender for a team that never dominates possession. Obviously you could argue, if he had pace then he'd never have played for us anyway. Still think he's been unlucky not to get some caps but I do get it.

He's racked up about 300 games at the top level so it's a maybe premature naming Esteve ahead of him. I've had to Google this one, but as awesome as McGreal was for us, he didn't even make 60 Prem appearances, and that was before the gulf widened to the top flight.

[Big Vinny K]

Loved John McGreal - he was absolute class but how anybody can say he was a better player for Burnley than Tarks is completely beyond me given the opposition they both faced.

Esteve looks like he could have the potential to play at the top level but as said let’s wait and see.

Yes we looked s better team after Esteve had signed but we only picked a couple more points post January than before this and we also took some real pastings when Esteve played. Arsenal, Newcastle at home where we conceded 9 goals and away games like Palace and Brentford where we got battered.

But if you want to see the difference between an established PL defender like Tarks and those aspiring to that just look at the 3 games we played against Everton that season. The gulf between the teams was embarrassing at times - it was like men against boys. We even made Everton players like DCL who were having bang average seasons look like world beaters.

Esteve has been brilliant for us and he’s only young. I think he’s probably better than Tarks was at the same age. Looks like Esteve has the attributes to match what Tarks has done in the PL for a number of years so let’s hope he does and let’s hope we manage to hang on to him for a bit longer because if he does end up as good as Tarks then he won’t be here much longer.

[Spijed]

If Tarkowski doesn't match the England template then isn't Harry Maguire a similar, body on the line, type player?

And if he isn't good enough for the national side, then how on earth does Dan Burn ever get considered?

I've seen ships turn quicker in the Panama canal!

[Tackler49]

What about Colin Waldron one of our best ever CH’s sadly never in the PL slightly better than Tarky and rest but with Esteve he is very good and the frightening thing is he will only get better calling him a RR is more than justified.

[ecc]

If Tarkowski doesn't match the England template then isn't Harry Maguire a similar, body on the line, type player?

And if he isn't good enough for the national side, then how on earth does Dan Burn ever get considered?

I've seen ships turn quicker in the Panama canal!

Was going to mention Maguire. I know he's never - obviously - let England down but is he really that much better than Tarkowski?

[aggi]

Let's see how Esteve gets on in the PL before rating him better than Tarks.

Where's the fun in that? I have fond memories of people declaring how much better than Tarkowski Al Dakhill was going to be.

[claretcarrot93]

We continued to concede goals at over 2 per game from when Estève came in. There was no change in the rate we were conceding goals.

In general we looked more solid in most of the games though and he was a big part of that

[BurnleyFC]

To be honest I was never his biggest fan. I thought he was a bit slow and clumsy and think he was cowardly in the tackle.

Can't deny he was a good player for us though but definitely think Keane at his best was a step above him.

Cowardly in the tackle?

He was immensely brave and puts body on the line numerous times. It’s just that his centre half partner did it even more so!

[jlup1980]

Where's the fun in that? I have fond memories of people declaring how much better than Tarkowski Al Dakhill was going to be.

It shows how many ins and outs we've had in the last couple of years when you completely forget about players like Al Dakhil. I thought he was going to be the real gem of the Kompany era. The farcical management of him last year really hurt him. The poor lad was hung out to dry against top quality opposition. Football is a ruthless game, but I really think Kompany made some huge errors with Ameen. He was left back one week, right back the next, thrown in as CB cover, and even ended up as CDM on a couple of occasions... then suddenly it was over. He was dropped, never to be seen again. Shocking management, it really was.

Back to the main topic, I thought Tarky was brilliant, but I agree with others that Keane is the one to emulate. He had that little bit extra. Tarky wears his heart on his sleeve, and was the master of the last minute tackle. The biggest compliment I can give Keane is he rarely needed to make that last ditch tackle, such was his reading of the game. Esteve is more in the Keane mold than Tarky, but I'll be happy if he takes to the PL as well as either of those two did for us. They'd both be found out in more expansive teams, but you can't argue with what they achieved for Burnley.

[Goliath]

Cowardly in the tackle?

He was immensely brave and puts body on the line numerous times. It’s just that his centre half partner did it even more so!

He tries to hurt people regularly

[karatekid]

Ben Mee was good at both ends.

[Big Vinny K]

Michael Keane at Burnley looked a very good-player indeed. More like Esteve probably than Tarks did in terms of style, pace etc.
The fee that Everton paid for him was great business for us and they were buying some proven quality after a couple of good seasons for us in the PL. But on the whole he’s not really pushed on as much as many people expected in his 8 or 9 years at Everton and never really won over the fans (probably says more about their fans than Keane though). Last few years in particular he’s looked a shadow of the player he used to be - obviously not helped by being dropped regularly.

At the same time Tarks looks like he’s pretty much the first name on the team sheet for Everton and when he’s missing (like the last couple of weeks) their defence seem to really struggle. He’s a leader and a very good defender and vital for teams like Everton who have struggled for years to score goals. Would be hard to argue that they would still be in the PL without him.

[warksclaret]

Quite surprised at some of the comments about Tarks but I guess its all about opinions. All I would say is what I mentioned in the OP, the stats that Sky brought up about Tarkowski's defending in his 7 years of being a regular PL centre half are quite staggeringly good, and he is loved by the Everton fans.I am not sure that he is as slow as some make out on here

[aggi]

Michael Keane at Burnley looked a very good-player indeed. More like Esteve probably than Tarks did in terms of style, pace etc.
The fee that Everton paid for him was great business for us and they were buying some proven quality after a couple of good seasons for us in the PL. But on the whole he’s not really pushed on as much as many people expected in his 8 or 9 years at Everton and never really won over the fans (probably says more about their fans than Keane though). Last few years in particular he’s looked a shadow of the player he used to be - obviously not helped by being dropped regularly.

At the same time Tarks looks like he’s pretty much the first name on the team sheet for Everton and when he’s missing (like the last couple of weeks) their defence seem to really struggle. He’s a leader and a very good defender and vital for teams like Everton who have struggled for years to score goals. Would be hard to argue that they would still be in the PL without him.

Keane has made a lot of mistakes, that have cost goals, at Everton. Whether it is lapses in concentration or just bad luck or what I've not watched them enough to know but Everton fans do have some reasoning behind not liking him.

[Big Vinny K]

Keane has made a lot of mistakes, that have cost goals, at Everton. Whether it is lapses in concentration or just bad luck or what I've not watched them enough to know but Everton fans do have some reasoning behind not liking him.

Yep I agree he’s looked poor in last 2 or 3 years. My reference to their fans was in his first few years there when there was some pretty irrational dislike for him which I never really understood (other than the usual Everton thing that they still think they should be a top 6 team)

[quoonbeatz]

Tarkowski is the best centre half I’ve seen play for Burnley, with Ben Mee just behind him in the definitive list.

What a pair they were.

[ChorltonCharlie]

It shows how many ins and outs we've had in the last couple of years when you completely forget about players like Al Dakhil. I thought he was going to be the real gem of the Kompany era. The farcical management of him last year really hurt him. The poor lad was hung out to dry against top quality opposition. Football is a ruthless game, but I really think Kompany made some huge errors with Ameen. He was left back one week, right back the next, thrown in as CB cover, and even ended up as CDM on a couple of occasions... then suddenly it was over. He was dropped, never to be seen again. Shocking management, it really was.

Back to the main topic, I thought Tarky was brilliant, but I agree with others that Keane is the one to emulate. He had that little bit extra. Tarky wears his heart on his sleeve, and was the master of the last minute tackle. The biggest compliment I can give Keane is he rarely needed to make that last ditch tackle, such was his reading of the game. Esteve is more in the Keane mold than Tarky, but I'll be happy if he takes to the PL as well as either of those two did for us. They'd both be found out in more expansive teams, but you can't argue with what they achieved for Burnley.

Agree with this. Football is full of sliding doors type moments. Al Dakhil was given his chance by VK, but in position he wasn’t ideally suited to against in form opposition and then was written off. This year we’ve almost had the opposite with Egan-Riley. At the start of the season he was arguably behind Esteve, O’Shea, Humphreys, Worrall and I suspect in the longer term plans Egan. O’Shea leaves, Egan not fully fit then Roberts gets injured and Humphrey’s is used as a makeshift right back and is sent off in the last minute. CJ then gets used as a right back and then Worrall gets injured. Parker opts to go back to Humphreys as right back, CJ goes to centre-back and the rest is history. You’ve got to have the talent, but sometimes it can be as much as about being in the right place at the right time, or even the wrong place.

The latter is what happened with Tarks and England. He gives away an unfortunate penalty in a friendly. Not really a mistake, just one of those things, but unfortunately as a fringe player and with so much competition you can’t give the national manager an excuse not to pick you. It was a debatable penalty; if the ref doesn’t give it he may have gone on to play many more times.

That said, Tarks has had a very good PL career and the fact that none of the big clubs have decided to try and sign him is evidence that he’s seen as not being quite good enough.

[warksclaret]

I understand Frank Lampard tried to buy Tarks when he was managing Chelsea, plus he came close to signing for Leicester during "TOEGATE", and Dyche threatened to leave if Tarks left the club, this at a time when Leicester and Rogers were doing well in the PL

[Transpennine]

What's 'Toegate'?

[gandhisflipflop]

Loved tarks but I’m at a loss how anyone can say he’s the best they’ve seen given we have Esteve.

[fatboy47]

Tarks/Esteve....2 very different players at different stages of their careers...fatuous to claim either is the better..

Like comparing a Roller with a Sherman tank....both were good at what they do.

[Big Vinny K]

Loved tarks but I’m at a loss how anyone can say he’s the best they’ve seen given we have Esteve.

Not that difficult to understand really.
Esteve has played 16 games in the PL for us - a few of which we got battered and Tarks played nearly 200 times for us in the PL.

Tarks has gone on to captain a much bigger and better team than us (based on how we could not lay a glove on them last season) and Esteve has done brilliantly in a league that is miles behind the league Tarks continues to do very well in.

Without Tarks, Ben Mee and the keepers we had under Dyche I’m not sure we would have ever seen a player like Esteve in a burnley shirt. It’s those players that kept us in the PL for much longer than a club of our size and budget tends to stay in the PL.

I think we are fortunate as fans to see players of the calibre of Heaton, Pope, Tripps, Mee, Tarks and now Esteve. It wasn’t that long ago (in my mind anyway) we had a mid week match against Grimsby where we conceded 6 with Gnohere and Branch as our centre backs !!

[Taffy on the wing]

Did anyone watch the close of Monday Night Football on Sky Sports last night when Tarkowski and Jamie Carragher were pundits for the Palace v Forest game. They did a resume of Tarkowski's career starting with his time in the Blackburn Academy where he was a striker and later at Oldham, Brentford, Burnley and now Everton.

He was the best defender I have seen in our shirt, but the stats they showed since his PL debut for Burnley in 2018 were magnificent. I cannot remember all the stats but in those 7 years , compared to every other PL defender he has come out top in around 6 categories including most arial duels won, most tackles won, most clearances, most interceptions, plus he has chipped in with a number of goals.

In that 2018 season him, Ben Mee and Jack Heaton were incredible. Will always like the guy, who whilst running his contract down with us was great right to the last game.

Probably top of the list in blocks ...by a country mile. Wonderful defender.

[Vegas Claret]

I liked his answer to "what's your penalty technique?"

"over the bar"

[TsarBomba]

It shows how many ins and outs we've had in the last couple of years when you completely forget about players like Al Dakhil. I thought he was going to be the real gem of the Kompany era. The farcical management of him last year really hurt him. The poor lad was hung out to dry against top quality opposition. Football is a ruthless game, but I really think Kompany made some huge errors with Ameen. He was left back one week, right back the next, thrown in as CB cover, and even ended up as CDM on a couple of occasions... then suddenly it was over. He was dropped, never to be seen again. Shocking management, it really was.

There is no reason why Dakhil couldn’t have been this seasons Esteve. He was class.

I despise the way we have treated footballers as commodities the past few seasons, and the turmoil it has brought, although last summer was perhaps more forced upon us because we had signed completely the wrong profile of player.

We really do have Parker to thank for digging us out of a hole entirely of our own making last summer, and lessons really ought to have been learnt in who we target this time.

[scamander]

Ben Mee was not only a very good defender he made those around him play better.

[warksclaret]

Loved tarks but I’m at a loss how anyone can say he’s the best they’ve seen given we have Esteve.

Esteve has been a wonderful defender for us for the past 18 months. Exactly how good we will only know when he has had several seasons of playing against the calibre of players like Kane, Toney, Watkins, Haaland, Solanke, Cunha, Jota, Vardy , Jackson and many more front men. These are the type of strikers Tarkowski has been playing against in those 7 years that he has come top on so many defending criteria according to stats issued by SKY

[Devils_Advocate]

It shows how many ins and outs we've had in the last couple of years when you completely forget about players like Al Dakhil. I thought he was going to be the real gem of the Kompany era. The farcical management of him last year really hurt him. The poor lad was hung out to dry against top quality opposition. Football is a ruthless game, but I really think Kompany made some huge errors with Ameen. He was left back one week, right back the next, thrown in as CB cover, and even ended up as CDM on a couple of occasions... then suddenly it was over. He was dropped, never to be seen again. Shocking management, it really was.

Football in the Premier League is ruthless and when you look that Kompany took over a relegated team who had just lost Mee, Tarkowski and Collins and was going into the next season with a defence of Roberts, Taylor, Thomas (went to Bristol Rovers) and Lowton (went to Huddersfield) you can maybe see what a massive task he had ahead of him.

Like in other positions Kompany needed to buy a lot of players to fill the squad out and therefore had to look for promising cheap players or loans. If you look at where he started above and what he left behind when he left then for a net spend of around £10m he's done pretty well.

So for a net spend of around £10 Kompany left behind Esteve, Beyer, Ekdal, Decroix and Egan-Riley (plus Roberts who was already there) after inheriting Roberts, Taylor, Thomas and Lowton

Al Dakhil was one for the future like Egan-Riley and was you can you hardly say Kompany ruined him when Stuttgart was willing to pay £6m which was over a million more than we paid.

Parker obviously made the decision he would rather cash in on the promising young player and use the money to get an experienced pro like Worral which based on the profile of our defence seemed like the right thing to do to me but if you are unhappy about us letting Al Dakhil go as a commodity then its Parker who sold him on and not VK

[gandhisflipflop]

Not that difficult to understand really.
Esteve has played 16 games in the PL for us - a few of which we got battered and Tarks played nearly 200 times for us in the PL.

Tarks has gone on to captain a much bigger and better team than us (based on how we could not lay a glove on them last season) and Esteve has done brilliantly in a league that is miles behind the league Tarks continues to do very well in.

Without Tarks, Ben Mee and the keepers we had under Dyche I’m not sure we would have ever seen a player like Esteve in a burnley shirt. It’s those players that kept us in the PL for much longer than a club of our size and budget tends to stay in the PL.

I think we are fortunate as fans to see players of the calibre of Heaton, Pope, Tripps, Mee, Tarks and now Esteve. It wasn’t that long ago (in my mind anyway) we had a mid week match against Grimsby where we conceded 6 with Gnohere and Branch as our centre backs !!

I’ll wager that Esteve goes on to get multiple caps for France and plays for a top team one day. You can see that when you see him play. It doesn’t matter how many PL games he’s played for us.

[daveisaclaret]

Not knocking Esteve but I'm not sure how smart it is to use his future France prowess in his favour when he can't really get in their under 21 squad.

Some crazy suggestions in this thread to be fair and my armchair diagnosis is that some people on here don't understand the difference between playing 200 Premier League games and playing 15. Genuinely that they don't understand what it means.

[Big Vinny K]

I’ll wager that Esteve goes on to get multiple caps for France and plays for a top team one day. You can see that when you see him play. It doesn’t matter how many PL games he’s played for us.

Well it kind of does matter as he’s not proven that he can play at the top level yet.
Don’t think anyone is saying that he doesn’t look anything but a fantastic player with the potential to play at a high level

But Tarks has proven it week in and week out against some of the best players in the world over many years. The fact is Esteve hasn’t yet

[Stalbansclaret]

I find it incredible that any Burnley fan can have any kind of downbeat opinion on Tarks… he was a phenomenal defender for us, alongside Mee with Heaton/Pope behind them. Magnificent and at Premier League level. He’s continued in this vein at Everton where (at least) 3 managers have had him as a stalwart.
I think I agree with those citing his deficiencies at the very highest, international, level…ie pace and ball-playing ability…. but he is one hell of a great defender .

[Commy]

If anyone missed it and would like to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO0tnUG61e4