Kierby hotel sold

[aggi]

Beauty is not subjective. Ugly buildings don't represent "progress"; they are a regression.

It is essential to build beautiful buildings for many reasons: increased esteem, pride, aesthetic value, better mental health, better for business and economy.

It really is.

[Goliath]

That will bring everyone on a par with me then - I've no signal anywhere near the town centre now at any time even though my phone says I've got 4G. Is there any 5G in Burnley at all, definitely isn't on my network.

Same. What network is that? I'm on O2 and get nothing in the town centre. It's amazing that it's been going on for years and nothings been done about it.

[burnmark]

O2 is diabolical in the town centre and surroundings.

[Goliath]

O2 is diabolical in the town centre and surroundings.

I tried to use their website to report it but they told me I was wrong and the signal is fine there.

[clerkenwell.claret]

It really is.

Indeed, beauty is subjective.

Some people were up in arms when St Paul’s was built in a “modern” style.

[ClaretTony]

Same. What network is that? I'm on O2 and get nothing in the town centre. It's amazing that it's been going on for years and nothings been done about it.

Sky which is O2 - was in town yesterday and needed to check something, absolutely no chance.

[dougcollins]

I tried to use their website to report it but they told me I was wrong and the signal is fine there.

It's brilliant when a provider tells their punters that they're wrong.

Move to another provider.

[Rowls]

It really is.

Nope.

Studies show our perception of beauty is highly correlated with symmetry, ornamentation and ratio - aspects all prominent in classical architecture.

It's also borne out by preference studies.

Even babies react with preference to good looking faces.

If beauty were truly subjective, there would be no such thing as good looking people and ugly people. That's clearly nonsense.

Everybody (at least those of us who are sensible) understand this intuitively.

Ugliness is one of the Kierby Hotel's main fault. I'd say it's prime fault.

[yTib]

Nope.

Studies show our perception of beauty is highly correlated with symmetry, ornamentation and ratio

try telling that to fans of cubism

[BurnleyFC]

Bulldoze it and build a giant Jimmy Anderson statue in its place.

[aggi]

Nope.

Studies show our perception of beauty is highly correlated with symmetry, ornamentation and ratio - aspects all prominent in classical architecture.

It's also borne out by preference studies.

Even babies react with preference to good looking faces.

If beauty were truly subjective, there would be no such thing as good looking people and ugly people. That's clearly nonsense.

Everybody (at least those of us who are sensible) understand this intuitively.

Ugliness is one of the Kierby Hotel's main fault. I'd say it's prime fault.

If beauty were truly subjective, there would be no such thing as good looking people and ugly people. That's clearly nonsense.

If beauty were not subjective then there would be universal agreement on good looking and ugly people. That's clearly nonsense.

The same with buildings: look at the Barbican or the Royal Festival Hall for instance, both very polarising.

[Rowls]

If beauty were truly subjective, there would be no such thing as good looking people and ugly people. That's clearly nonsense.

If beauty were not subjective then there would be universal agreement on good looking and ugly people. That's clearly nonsense.

The same with buildings: look at the Barbican or the Royal Festival Hall for instance, both very polarising.

Yet there are certain buildings / people who are regarded universally as beautiful.

And we have the forumla for beauty. It's a combination of symmetry and ratio. The scope for 'eye of the beholder' stuff as you describe is genuine but it's a narrow bandwidth. As for people who find the Barbican to be "beautiful" I think you're speculating. There are people who like it and appreciate the functionality of its brutalism or its architectural methods ... but this isn't an appreciation of beauty as most people understand the word.

Should every building we build aim to please the most people possible? Almost certainly not. But landmark buildings such as the Kierby should definitely do this and, ideally, the general public should have a large say in what is built there.

[yTib]

you can't honestly believe that beauty (or any abstract phenomenon) can be quantified.

if you do you are a fool.

[aggi]

Yet there are certain buildings / people who are regarded universally as beautiful.

And we have the forumla for beauty. It's a combination of symmetry and ratio. The scope for 'eye of the beholder' stuff as you describe is genuine but it's a narrow bandwidth. As for people who find the Barbican to be "beautiful" I think you're speculating. There are people who like it and appreciate the functionality of its brutalism or its architectural methods ... but this isn't an appreciation of beauty as most people understand the word.

Should every building we build aim to please the most people possible? Almost certainly not. But landmark buildings such as the Kierby should definitely do this and, ideally, the general public should have a large say in what is built there.

I enjoy that when you make these assertions they are "fact" but when I make them I'm "speculating".

Personally I think the Barbican is beautiful, that isn't speculation. Timeout has it in 15 most beautiful places in the UK https://www.timeout.com/uk/travel/the-1 ... -in-the-uk

As for your "formula" for beauty. It can't really be applied universally can it. It doesn't tell you what goes where (in fact you generally see shonky retrospective views of it).

[clerkenwell.claret]

Great minds, even greater than those who frequent this board, have tried objectively to define beauty in all fields including art and architecture. Human beauty also.

Whilst there is a general consensus that symmetry and composition (esp adoption of the golden section in architecture) contribute to a sense of beauty, nobody has yet managed to create objective rules that define beauty. IMHO this is a good thing. If we could objectively define beauty, then the inevitable outcome would be that we’d all live in identikit homes, drive identikit cars etc etc: rather dull, no?

And perhaps over time humans would evolve via a Darwinian (or some dystopian) process to all become identically beautiful.

[yTib]

And perhaps over time humans would evolve via a Darwinian (or some dystopian) process to all become identically beautiful.

dystopian indeed.

somebody recently tried to get the kirkgate market in bradford listed so it couldn't be demolished.

king prince charles would be apoplectic!

[clerkenwell.claret]

dystopian indeed.

somebody recently tried to get the kirkgate market in bradford listed so it couldn't be demolished.

king prince charles would be apoplectic!

yTib, was it the 20th Century Society that tried for the listing? I don’t know the building but it appears to be a fine example of pragmatic brutalism (and I think I’ve invented a new genre ).

[yTib]

yTib, was it the 20th Century Society that tried for the listing? I don’t know the building but it appears to be a fine example of pragmatic brutalism (and I think I’ve invented a new genre ).

call it what you like pal. i call it pig ugly and the architect that designed it, the planners that approved it and the builders that built it should have been terribly embarrassed.

worse than any building in burnley by a mile.

[yTib]

As for people who find the Barbican to be "beautiful" I think you're speculating. There are people who like it and appreciate the functionality of its brutalism or its architectural methods ... but this isn't an appreciation of beauty as most people understand the word.

rowls is so funny. arrogant and funny.

[CoolClaret]

Getting very Plato and 'the world of forms' is this.

I do believe that objective beauty exists somewhere but we all have individualistic, subjective tastes.

[clerkenwell.claret]

IMG_9273.jpeg (316.96 KiB) Viewed 2366 times

call it what you like pal. i call it pig ugly and the architect that designed it, the planners that approved it and the builders that built it should have been terribly embarrassed.

worse than any building in burnley by a mile.

I much prefer the brutal market building to the knicky-knacky-noo faux stone buildings seen on the right here. I imagine the market was designed and built with good intentions and integrity: I can see it was carefully and interestingly detailed. The facade of the modern stone building on the right was likely designed in an afternoon by the office junior.

Opinions, eh.

ps. The Barbican is fantastic. Fact.

[yTib]

IMG_9273.jpeg

I much prefer the brutal market building to the knicky-knacky-noo faux stone buildings seen on the right here. I imagine the market was designed and built with good intentions and integrity: I can see it was carefully and interestingly detailed. The facade of the modern stone building on the right was likely designed in an afternoon by the office junior.

i think they're both horrid.

it seems like a cynical case to argue that something isn't ugly because something else is uglier.

bradford has some wonderful buildings like the wool exchange and the former odeon.

[clerkenwell.claret]

yTib,

Going off piste somewhat?

The point is that aesthetics are subjective. In that respect we’re agreed.

[ŽižkovClaret]

So, any update on the Kirby then?

[GetIntoEm]

When you come to see updates on the kierby hotel and find moaning about phone signals and architectural beauty. Never change UTC. Always find an opportunity to moan

[Claretnick]

Scaffolding going up around the building this morning

[ŽižkovClaret]

Scaffolding going up around the building this morning

Hopefully a precursor to a demolition, although i suspect it may be a quick refurb to try and capitalise on our PL status?

[NewClaret]

Hopefully a precursor to a demolition, although i suspect it may be a quick refurb to try and capitalise on our PL status?

You don’t put scaffolding around a building that is being demolished so much more likely a refurb, you’d think. Shame, I was hoping the whole thing would come down.

[HahaYeah]

The currently dilapidated and condemned site will be completely transformed, paving the way for a state-of-the-art hotel and leisure complex that will “redefine luxury and excellence in Burnley”.

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/business ... nt-4639323

[ŽižkovClaret]

You don’t put scaffolding around a building that is being demolished so much more likely a refurb, you’d think. Shame, I was hoping the whole thing would come down.

Depends, there could be a case where they have to demolish it in such a way to not spread debris or dust around the surrounding area.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Not a f**king chance in hell they fit a 200 room hotel on the current footprint without demolition

[bobinho]

Has anyone said they like the kierby yet?

Anyone suggested it’s a beautiful building?

Anyone admire its brutality?

Exactly… it’s a monstrosity. As is charter walk.

[HahaYeah]

Kierby was previously a 48 bedroom hotel.

[HahaYeah]

It should have been demolished when it was closed down in 2017 imo.

[ClaretTony]

I walked past on Tuesday this week when the scaffolding was going up. I spoke to a bloke from Jay Care. He didn’t know what was happening but did confirm that the new hotel plan had fallen through.

[NewClaret]

I walked past on Tuesday this week when the scaffolding was going up. I spoke to a bloke from Jay Care. He didn’t know what was happening but did confirm that the new hotel plan had fallen through.

That’s a huge shame. It sounded pretty infeasible and unlikely when it was announced, but still got my hopes up.

Really nice guy and great business, just as an aside.

[ClaretTony]

That’s a huge shame. It sounded pretty infeasible and unlikely when it was announced, but still got my hopes up.

Really nice guy and great business, just as an aside.

It was only what someone who works across the road told me. But it’s obvious they wouldn’t be putting up scaffolding as they are if there was any intention to demolish the building.

[ŽižkovClaret]

So, half arsed refurb to get it to scrape past the minimum standards to be a doss house then?

[NewClaret]

So, half arsed refurb to get it to scrape past the minimum standards to be a doss house then?

Could be, which is slightly worrying!

[NewClaret]

It was only what someone who works across the road told me. But it’s obvious they wouldn’t be putting up scaffolding as they are if there was any intention to demolish the building.

Agreed.

[dushanbe]

I'm sure someone told me that its not as simple as demolishing it as the units below the old hotel are owned by different folk. It always makes me think that other councils in lets say more attractive areas wouldn't put up with this level of dereliction at an entry to the town. Can't imagine something like the keirby at the end of Micklegate in York for example.

[The Shire Claret]

Just want to assure native Burnley folk that although it's an ugly building ... as someone that moved here but have been attending games for nearly 30 years ..... I never really noticed the building .... The only thing that got be looking at it was when they put the picture of a someone in a suite with footall boots on the turf which is still there ... that needed to come down at least 10 years ago...

[Big Vinny K]

The good news is that the new building is going to look very different

[ClaretTony]

The good news is that the new building is going to look very different

What new building?

[Big Vinny K]

What new building?

Sorry I meant new as in what they are doing with the existing building. It will not be recognisable.

[ŽižkovClaret]

The good news is that the new building is going to look very different

Any plans available?

[Bfc]

The only way it wouldn’t be recognisable, is by pulling it down.

[Bacchus]

Scaffolding going up around the building this morning

That in itself will be a visual enhancement

[woody]

I'm sure someone told me that its not as simple as demolishing it as the units below the old hotel are owned by different folk. It always makes me think that other councils in lets say more attractive areas wouldn't put up with this level of dereliction at an entry to the town. Can't imagine something like the keirby at the end of Micklegate in York for example.

Martin Dobson used to own a few of them. I don't know if he still does.

[Big Vinny K]

Any plans available?

Not sure.
I’ve just been told of the owners plans for the refurb