Dyche on the Overlap

[ecc]

Just my opinion but Sean Dyche comes after Harry Potts as our best manager in the last 60 plus years.

[boyyanno]

Okay, seventh choice. I assume Dyche was one of the ones to turn them down.

It isn't like the SPFL at all. And besides, the current England manager didn't manage to win it with Bayern. Managing a team like Bayern is a huge task. Pressure, egos, budgets. You don't manage Bayern Munich if you're not a very good manager, it really is as simple as that.

I think there's somthing very blinkered and limited about- He manages at a big club so he must be a much better manager.

I think Kompany is far more suited to a gig like Bayern Munich than Dyche is. (Although there is a different but well done argument that Dyche has never really had the type of funds or club to be able to prove this).

But similarly so I think anyone who believes Kompany could have replicated Dyche's success with the resources we had is delusional.

[Big Vinny K]

Nope, you are rewriting history.

Burnley were always perceived to be 'Dyche will see them safe' and the bookies odds never had us as favourites to go down in our final 5 season despite Dyche repeatedly saying otherwise.

I’m pretty certain you just made that up.

I really have no idea why some of our fans seem to enjoy criticising the most successful manager the club has had in the last 50 years (fact not opinion).

In terms of the episode of Overlap watched it and always enjoy listening to Dyche talk about some of the players who played for us and reminding people what good players they were. Can’t say I enjoyed most of this episode though - if you compare to other episodes it felt like it was very difficult for them to get a word in edge ways as Dyche never stopped talking. Gary Neville hardly said a word and compared to a lot of the other episodes there was just a lack of chemistry and interaction. It looked like Wright, Neville and Scholes got a bit bored and found it hard to relate to some of his views but couldn’t really be bothered debating or challenging Dyche. The bit about referees talking to the fans to explain decisions was a perfect example. Dyche dismissed this as a bad idea for some pretty nonsensical reasons really. Wrighty half heartedly said he thought it was a good idea and then left it at that !!

[agreenwood]

I’m pretty certain you just made that up.

I really have no idea why some of our fans seem to enjoy criticising the most successful manager the club has had in the last 50 years (fact not opinion).

In terms of the episode of Overlap watched it and always enjoy listening to Dyche talk about some of the players who played for us and reminding people what good players they were. Can’t say I enjoyed most of this episode though - if you compare to other episodes it felt like it was very difficult for them to get a word in edge ways as Dyche never stopped talking. Gary Neville hardly said a word and compared to a lot of the other episodes there was just a lack of chemistry and interaction. It looked like Wright, Neville and Scholes got a bit bored and found it hard to relate to some of his views but couldn’t really be bothered debating or challenging Dyche. The bit about referees talking to the fans to explain decisions was a perfect example. Dyche dismissed this as a bad idea for some pretty nonsensical reasons really. Wrighty half heartedly said he thought it was a good idea and then left it at that !!

Neville, Wright and Scholes are still trying to make a living as pundits. Neville in particular fronts a lot of Sky’s flagship analysis. They aren’t likely to go along with the “modern football is Woke” narrative that Dyche was pushing.

Keane’s obviously already established as a bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to football fads etc. it won’t do him any harm to agree.

[quoonbeatz]

Dyche was brilliant for us but he’s massively cringe on these things, comes across a bit too try hard.

[Wile E Coyote]

I’m pretty certain you just made that up.

I really have no idea why some of our fans seem to enjoy criticising the most successful manager the club has had in the last 50 years (fact not opinion).

In terms of the episode of Overlap watched it and always enjoy listening to Dyche talk about some of the players who played for us and reminding people what good players they were. Can’t say I enjoyed most of this episode though - if you compare to other episodes it felt like it was very difficult for them to get a word in edge ways as Dyche never stopped talking. Gary Neville hardly said a word and compared to a lot of the other episodes there was just a lack of chemistry and interaction. It looked like Wright, Neville and Scholes got a bit bored and found it hard to relate to some of his views but couldn’t really be bothered debating or challenging Dyche. The bit about referees talking to the fans to explain decisions was a perfect example. Dyche dismissed this as a bad idea for some pretty nonsensical reasons really. Wrighty half heartedly said he thought it was a good idea and then left it at that !!

That's mainly to do with wright being a tosspot, dont forget, he wanted the so called lesser clubs barred from being promoted, he regards them as nuisance value. He is an inarticulate, money grubbing ponce, but gets put forward as some kind of expert. Dyche performed miracles here, and nothing will devalue his contribution.

[martin_p]

Dyche was brilliant for us but he’s massively cringe on these things, comes across a bit too try hard.

He talks a lot of sense on the subject of modern football though.

[Swizzlestick]

Fantastic manager for us, his place in our history assured, but he’s hard work in these appearances. He’s becoming almost a parody of himself. I don’t know why he keeps repeating the Heaton thing.

[xxmunkyennuixx]

Had a listen. The Heaton bit is ********. He was right about Kompany and the managers pursuing philosophy over results. Kompany's EPL season was shite and it is taken a hell of job from Parker to sort that out.

He's underselling himself with the firefighter tag. He worked wonders here and should be looking for another club to build up rather than a short term gig of survival and ****** off after a season and half. He's not helping himself with talk about it being a good earner and the anti-modernism slant. It is Fat Sam like. He's better than that.The stuff about VAR and fans, the stuff about fan power was all petty disparaging. It was all a bit "good football man" ********. Needs to reign that in and focus on the values that brought success here.

I'd like to see him do well. We are where we are in large part because of his management. His next job needs to be carefully chosen. Everton could be his Newcastle alla Fat Sam or it could his Burnley alla Howe. If he has a chance at Rangers then he should have a go.

[agreenwood]

He talks a lot of sense on the subject of modern football though.

He made some valid points, but “modern football” is where he needs to find his next job. Railing against it is only going to narrow his options.

Wearing headphones pre-game or snoods in training didn’t prevent us fielding one of meanest defences in British football history this season.

[martin_p]

He made some valid points, but “modern football” is where he needs to find his next job. Railing against it is only going to narrow his options.

Wearing headphones pre-game or snoods in training didn’t prevent us fielding one of meanest defences in British football history this season.

I think he’s right about the tide starting to turn against the football ‘philosophy’ that was made popular by Guardiola. Maybe his style of play, or a version of it, be soon be back in vogue.

[agreenwood]

I think he’s right about the tide starting to turn against the football ‘philosophy’ that was made popular by Guardiola. Maybe his style of play, or a version of it, be soon be back in vogue.

I think most people enjoy styles of football that win games. Dyche’s style shifted a bit (it wasn’t always pure long ball) and was enjoyable enough when we were winning. It was pretty hard to watch when we weren’t.

Guardiolas style was probably enjoyed by the City fans last season and the year before. We loved Kompany’s when we won the league with our record points haul.

It’s easy for the “tide” to turn when the results aren’t coming.

[Big Vinny K]

I think he’s right about the tide starting to turn against the football ‘philosophy’ that was made popular by Guardiola. Maybe his style of play, or a version of it, be soon be back in vogue.

Is the tide really turning ?
Has it ever really been a ride ?

There are several styles of football played in the top leagues in Europe and there’s a lot more non Pep type football than there are disciples trying to blindly follow him.
Look at the way PSG and Barca have played this season - both very different to each other but massively different to Pep.
Look at Liverpool, Villa and many more.

Not surprisingly Chelsea started a bit like Pep this season but even they are starting to adapt their style.

You look at managers like Emre and the way they set up their teams and the way they can change their style of play sometimes 2 and 3 times during one game alone and you realise the massive gap there is between managers like Emre and the likes of Kompany, Martin, RVN etc. Its huge.

I agree that I don’t think Dyche comes across the best in these debates - and he is very possibly underselling himself with this Mike Bassett persona. Pigeon holing himself into this good old fashioned disciplines stuff together with his already stereotyped style of football does not do himself any favours.

I also find a lot of these references to money and how much they earn as pretty classless. They may all find it funny between them - but not sure much of the audience do.

None of this changes what he did for Burnley but the more I see or hear of him on the media tbh the more I dislike him….though unfortunately as alluded to above he is probably nearer to the norm than the exception with ex footballers and managers in the media

[martin_p]

I think most people enjoy styles of football that win games. Dyche’s style shifted a bit (it wasn’t always pure long ball) and was enjoyable enough when we were winning. It was pretty hard to watch when we weren’t.

Guardiolas style was probably enjoyed by the City fans last season and the year before. We loved Kompany’s when we won the league with our record points haul.

It’s easy for the “tide” to turn when the results aren’t coming.

That’s pretty much the point Dyche was making though wasn’t it, why are managers sticking with a particular style if it’s not getting results? Adapt to the situation rather than dogmatically stick to a philosophy. It was our problem under Kompany in the Premier League (although he did make some slight changes when it was already too late) and it’s been Southampton’s problem this season.

[agreenwood]

That’s pretty much the point Dyche was making though wasn’t it, why are managers sticking with a particular style if it’s not getting results? Adapt to the situation rather than dogmatically stick to a philosophy. It was our problem under Kompany in the Premier League (although he did make some slight changes when it was already too late) and it’s been Southampton’s problem this season.

Well yes, but it sort of assumes that changing to a more defensive or attritional style of play will be more successful. There are plenty of sides who were immediately relegated by a significant margin trying to play that way. Ultimately the resource gap catches up with every side sooner or later.

[martin_p]

Well yes, but it sort of assumes that changing to a more defensive or attritional style of play will be more successful. There are plenty of sides who were immediately relegated by a significant margin trying to play that way. Ultimately the resource gap catches up with every side sooner or later.

I don’t think he actually said that, it was more ‘do something different’ and I guess that will largely depend on the players available to you, although I guess the default setting is to become more defensive.

[agreenwood]

I don’t think he actually said that, it was more ‘do something different’ and I guess that will largely depend on the players available to you, although I guess the default setting is to become more defensive.

I don’t think he was advocating for struggling defensive sides to start playing more expansive football. My takeaway was that “do something different” was to play the style of football he had some success with.

[quoonbeatz]

He talks a lot of sense on the subject of modern football though.

Always has talked some sense but he’s not saying anything most people don’t already know and he’s not bringing anything new himself. Tbh he comes across like he’s not that bothered about getting back into it, which is fair enough, he’s loaded.

[boyyanno]

I don’t think he was advocating for struggling defensive sides to start playing more expansive football. My takeaway was that “do something different” was to play the style of football he had some success with.

I think he's advocating that teams put results above philosophy (like he did), as opposed to the other way round (like Kompany did). He doesn't say anything at all about playing in his style of football.

[Stan Tastic]

Weird that he didn't mention that in his first promotion with Burnley he played a high press without the passing it around at the back. This was before Pep arrived in England.

[Quickenthetempo]

I forgot just how much of a media trained politician he is.

5 minutes of slagging Everton off for changing the goalposts.
Scholes asks him if he thinks Everton deceived him. " oh no I don't think so necessarily "

As for him getting stick for signing Heaton, Arfield and Pope.

Heaton was famous for his penalty shoot out saves against Liverpool in the cup final 12 months earlier.

Arfield- everyone was just great full for a signing.

Pope came with JGB that overshadowed his move.

Where did he get pelters? On here, pre season friendlies, papers or Social media?
What did he read?

[JellyBaby]

I think Dyche is great for what he's done but that interview is next level Brent. I love it though. He's been like that for 10 years.

[ŽižkovClaret]

I think he’s right about the tide starting to turn against the football ‘philosophy’ that was made popular by Guardiola. Maybe his style of play, or a version of it, be soon be back in vogue.

I think Moyes coming in to Everton and turning things around quite sizeably with no new signings has done a fair bit of damage to his current reputation

[Holtyclaret]

I must have missed something or do you mean Kompany who had record money to spend, like Dyche won the league and then gave us one of the worst seasons known to the premier league?

We were weirdly close to staying up n the end of VK’s prem season, so nowhere remotely near worst prem seasons.

[Shaggy]

There’s a few people who massively overrate Dyche as a manager.

I remember more than a few years ago people claiming that Dyche was better than Rafa Benitez.. that’s next level delusion

As for Kompany, he has a major title to his name doesn’t he? Dyche?

[Spijed]

There’s a few people who massively overrate Dyche as a manager.

Was getting into Europe overrated?

[Shaggy]

Was getting into Europe overrated?

Rating him above the likes of world class managers like Benitez is massively overrating.

[boatshed bill]

Did brilliantly for us, no doubt about it.
Personally, I never took to him or his personality.

[Wile E Coyote]

There’s a few people who massively overrate Dyche as a manager.

I remember more than a few years ago people claiming that Dyche was better than Rafa Benitez.. that’s next level delusion

As for Kompany, he has a major title to his name doesn’t he? Dyche?

Laughable , Kompany waltzes into a club who ALWAYS win the league, akin to celtic.
Dyche had to secure our status for numerous seasons on peanuts comparatively.
too many detractors, and simply not enough people acknowledging what a phenomenal job he did at Burnley.

[Bacchus]

too many detractors, and simply not enough people acknowledging what a phenomenal job he did at Burnley.

Not seen anyone on here who doesn't acknowledge the job that Dyche did here. As a broadly functioning adult, it's possible to acknowledge that while also recognising that he doesn't always come across as well as he might do, which I think is what a lot of people are doing on this thread.

Sam Allardyce did an incredible job at Bolton, but his claims about being able to manage Real Madrid were laughable. Dyche is in danger of wandering into similar territory. He started to believe his own hype a bit too much towards the end of his time with us and I don't think it does him many favours.

[beeholeclaret]

Laughable , Kompany waltzes into a club who ALWAYS win the league, akin to celtic.
Dyche had to secure our status for numerous seasons on peanuts comparatively.
too many detractors, and simply not enough people acknowledging what a phenomenal job he did at Burnley.

I’m a big fan of Dyche and fully recognise the amazing job he did at Burnley. His efforts were reflected in relative success on the pitch but also in conjunction with previous owners they were able to build a superb new training and development complex at Gawthorpe. It’s a shame their partnership could not be maintained for a longer period but cash rich new owners at many of the Premier League clubs took them way above Burnley’s level.

[Row x]

I loved Dyche, but it's a strange one, when he was a manager he seemed to hate the media, always giving flippant answers or just not answering.
Now he's never out of the media, I quite like the overlap, but this episode was just Dyche talking, nobody seemed to ask questions or join in the debate like they usually do, it was all very much me, me, me.

[forzagranata]

I forgot just how much of a media trained politician he is.

5 minutes of slagging Everton off for changing the goalposts.
Scholes asks him if he thinks Everton deceived him. " oh no I don't think so necessarily "

As for him getting stick for signing Heaton, Arfield and Pope.

Heaton was famous for his penalty shoot out saves against Liverpool in the cup final 12 months earlier.

Arfield- everyone was just great full for a signing.

Pope came with JGB that overshadowed his move.

Where did he get pelters? On here, pre season friendlies, papers or Social media?
What did he read?

I don't recall much criticism over Heaton but there were plenty of people saying how 'underwhelmed' they were by a free transfer signing from League One Huddersfield and also lots of 'Why do we need another keeper' when he signed Pope.

Managers are bound to be a bit over-sensitive when it comes to criticism. There aren't many other jobs where every decision you make is instantly critiqued by thousands of people on and off line.

[ClaretTony]

I think Moyes coming in to Everton and turning things around quite sizeably with no new signings has done a fair bit of damage to his current reputation

They had the new manager bounce but the recent results haven’t been that good.

[ClaretTony]

We were weirdly close to staying up n the end of VK’s prem season, so nowhere remotely near worst prem seasons.

Not close. Eight points behind Forest and that was with them having had four points deducted.

[ClaretTony]

I don't recall much criticism over Heaton but there were plenty of people saying how 'underwhelmed' they were by a free transfer signing from League One Huddersfield and also lots of 'Why do we need another keeper' when he signed Pope.

Managers are bound to be a bit over-sensitive when it comes to criticism. There aren't many other jobs where every decision you make is instantly critiqued by thousands of people on and off line.

The criticism was not so much Heaton but the fact that his first four signings were all goalkeepers - Heaton, Cisak, Nizic & Liversedge. The latter two though we’d committed to a year earlier and Liversedge had played for our reserves at the end of the 2011/12 season.

A previously prolific poster on the board said after Arfield had played as a trialist at Morecambe that if Arfield was the level of our ambition then we are going nowhere.

[fidelcastro]

We were weirdly close to staying up n the end of VK’s prem season, so nowhere remotely near worst prem seasons.

It was our worst/lowest points total in all the seasons we've been in the PL.

[Spijed]

Not seen anyone on here who doesn't acknowledge the job that Dyche did here. As a broadly functioning adult, it's possible to acknowledge that while also recognising that he doesn't always come across as well as he might do, which I think is what a lot of people are doing on this thread.

Sam Allardyce did an incredible job at Bolton, but his claims about being able to manage Real Madrid were laughable. Dyche is in danger of wandering into similar territory. He started to believe his own hype a bit too much towards the end of his time with us and I don't think it does him many favours.

On the flip side to that could you imagine the likes of Guardiola being as successful on a shoestring budget?

[Holtyclaret]

Not close. Eight points behind Forest and that was with them having had four points deducted.

I thought if we’d have won last two games we’d have stayed up. I just meant not cut adrift like the teams this year.

[ClaretTony]

I thought if we’d have won last two games we’d have stayed up. I just meant not cut adrift like the teams this year.

We would as it happens because Forest were our last game but in all honesty we looked virtually relegated from the end of August.

[Row x]

We would as it happens because Forest were our last game but in all honesty we looked virtually relegated from the end of August.

After 3 games, against top teams, I think some of us gave it a bit longer