Summer transfer window

[Goliath]

I'm not sure there's any real case for going back to Mee next season. He'll be 36 in September and given we have Esteve and Humphreys already in the squad, I'm not sure there's a case for adding a further left sided centre half to the squad even as back up.

If he's interested in going into coaching then perhaps there is a role with one of the junior teams but if we're looking to add to the first team back room staff I can think of plenty of better options. Even compared to Barnes he's been away a long time - there are frighteningly few players who will be with us next season who crossed paths with Mee.

Agree with this but I could see him being useful in the last 10 minutes of games if we needed to revert to 5 at the back to hold out and dig in. If anyone would put their body on their line in that type of role it would be him.

[jojomk1]

Don't get the obsession with former players, need to move on off them. Rarely when players return they perform as well as they did in first spell. Probably a good reason for it too, they are past their best.

You can't beat a legend, who is good for the dressing room, coming back in a coaching role

I'd have one for each player

[Cooclaret]

You can't beat a legend, who is good for the dressing room, coming back in a coaching role

I'd have one for each player

Absolutely this. The culture needs those players to echo it throughout. Individual managers change things, but what makes the club the club doesn’t.

As much people moan, change is a good thing, but the club is still the club it’s always been.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Is the retained list deadline today?

[Boxy]

Yesterday. Club would of told players and elf. No requirement to publish it

[NL Claret]

You can't beat a legend, who is good for the dressing room, coming back in a coaching role

I'd have one for each player

So the club sign an ex “legend” on £40k a week to be good in the dressing room and satisfy a small section of the fan base.

Doesn’t add up to me.

[claretspice]

You can't beat a legend, who is good for the dressing room, coming back in a coaching role

I'd have one for each player

One or two is good and healthy. But you can have too much of a good thing and it can rapidly become a separate power base to the manager which is a very bad thing, and you also risk prioritising good eggs and sentiment over coaching ability.

If there's no obvious vacancy at Burnley and he wants to coach (I recall him suggesting he wasn't, by the way) then arguably it would be no bad thing for him to go and establish his credentials elsewhere.

As for keeping him as a 10 minute man I see that logic but I'm not sure we have a vacancy for that specialist in our 25, particularly when hes not an established figure in the dressing room. What would it do to the dynamics if Mee started getting those minutes ahead of Humphreys, say, or even Worrall? It's not a cheap option either.

[SirBob]

Does Ben Mee even know any of the players here anymore? Barnes and Roberts.. can’t imagine there’s many more. He’d be a stranger to this team.

Really hope we raid the likes of Chelsea and Man City for more players in the Trafford and Humphries mould. Hopefully we’ve built on our scouting of France and Belgium too.

[GetIntoEm]

Not a chance Ben Mee comes back, really would be a silly move for everyone.

I suspect he will go in a media role

[KRBFC]

That's exactly my thinking.

Would some be overpriced? No doubt, the thing is though, look at so many of the top performers in the PL and so many were once young champ standouts. I think it's about as 'risk free' as we can hope for given our constraints,

Now look at the opposite to that, the bottom 3 teams are full of the best Championship players. The last 6 teams to get promoted from the Championship with the best squads have been relegated (and not got close to staying up).

Last years Championships player of the year cost West Ham an arm and a leg, he’s scored 1 league goal this year. Rutter cost Brighton £40m and has 5 goals. Adam Armstrong is a shoe in for 25 goals in the Championship, he lasted until January before Southampton sent him out on loan.

I don’t see how that’s anywhere close to risk free at all when they cost significantly more than other players and given promoted sides tend to struggle, the numbers would probably say they’re the most likely to fail.

[Holtyclaret]

Not a chance Ben Mee comes back, really would be a silly move for everyone.

I suspect he will go in a media role

He’s said he intends playing a couple more years

[randomclaret2]

He’s said he intends playing a couple more years

Hopefully not here

[Holtyclaret]

Hopefully not here

You’d think league one/champ/scotland

[GetIntoEm]

I'm not sure he's fit enough for the championship anymore

[CoolClaret]

Now look at the opposite to that, the bottom 3 teams are full of the best Championship players. The last 6 teams to get promoted from the Championship with the best squads have been relegated (and not got close to staying up).

Last years Championships player of the year cost West Ham an arm and a leg, he’s scored 1 league goal this year. Rutter cost Brighton £40m and has 5 goals. Adam Armstrong is a shoo-in for 25 goals in the Championship; he lasted until January before Southampton sent him out on loan.

I don’t see how that’s anywhere close to risk free at all when they cost significantly more than other players and given promoted sides tend to struggle, the numbers would probably say they’re the most likely to fail.

Risk-free in terms of how we know they're likely to perform at Champ level, accustomed to English Footy / living in England.

We can't just buy a new squad again and have a repeat of last PL season, we have to have one eye on players that are likely to stay/do a job in the Champ as well yet are young enough to grow/develop, as well as 1-2 that are speculative punts, and 1-2 perhaps that would give us an Odobert/Amdouni situation.

You also have a very small sample size there as well, as I said previously on this thread, the PL is absolutely littered with former top Champ players, our current squad is also full of them. It's a good market for us.

[Commy]

Out of all our players, the one that looks athletic and powerful enough for the Premier League is Laurent. He needs to improve on his passing or we need an upgrade better than him.

[Jakubs Tash]

I'm not sure he's fit enough for the championship anymore

What a bizarre claim. He’s always been very fit and been on the bench for Brentford for a number of weeks now.

[Vegas Claret]

I wonder where Phillip Billing will end up, currently on loan at Napoli from Bournemouth but has only played 8 games since joining them in January (I don't know if he's injured or just not playing)- they have an option to sign him for 9 million

[Murger]

I think I’d only sign Mee if Esteve was to leave. Then I’d spend the money on a decent right sided centre half (should CJ leave).

[Murger]

I wonder where Phillip Billing will end up, currently on loan at Napoli from Bournemouth but has only played 8 games since joining them in January (I don't know if he's injured or just not playing)- they have an option to sign him for 9 million

Isn’t Billing more of a Brownhill replacement?

[CharlieinNewMexico]

You’d think league one/champ/scotland

If he went to Scotland they’d pronounce it like a Vietnamese sandwich

[Vegas Claret]

Isn’t Billing more of a Brownhill replacement?

Not sure mate, I just know we need big lads with a bit of experience that won't cost stupid money. He ticks a few boxes

[Goliath]

Isn’t Billing more of a Brownhill replacement?

If Parker plays with a 3 man midfield like last season rather than with a proper number 10 then a trio of Cullen, Billing and Brownhill has a lot of good attributes. We need someone who is physically and technically capable of receiving the ball in tight spaces. A replacement for Berge basically.

[RVclaret]

Some names to throw into the hat for ‘big lad in the middle’:

Stefan Bajcetic (20) - Liverpool - loan
Been on loan at Las Palmas in La Liga this season. Fhe underlying data for his defensive metrics are very impressive (e.g. most blocked passes / interceptions in the league). Not sure he’ll make the cut at Liverpool yet, with the likely business they’ll want to do.

Anton Stach (26) - Hoffenheim - £10-15m
6 foot 4, Hoffenheim not had a great season so could be a decent pick up. As well as breaking up play, his forward progressive numbers are good for a big man.

Both are in the Josh Laurent mould of physicality, and can sit in a midfield pivot.

[Mattster]

Some names to throw into the hat for ‘big lad in the middle’:

Stefan Bajcetic (20) - Liverpool - loan
Been on loan at Las Palmas in La Liga this season. Fhe underlying data for his defensive metrics are very impressive (e.g. most blocked passes / interceptions in the league). Not sure he’ll make the cut at Liverpool yet, with the likely business they’ll want to do.

Anton Stach (26) - Hoffenheim - £10-15m
6 foot 4, Hoffenheim not had a great season so could be a decent pick up. As well as breaking up play, his forward progressive numbers are good for a big man.

Both are in the Josh Laurent mould of physicality, and can sit in a midfield pivot.

My personal favourite would be Shea Charles, think CoolClaret suggested him earlier. Got all the technical and physical qualities along with the potential. Apparently wants a move this Summer too.

Like the look of Amir Richardson but not sure that one would be possible.

[warksclaret]

Impressed with Davies the Ipswich left back who is brilliant going forwards and a good defender told.Would be the answer to our free kick or corner taking too

[RVclaret]

Impressed with Davies the Ipswich left back who is brilliant going forwards and a good defender told.Would be the answer to our free kick or corner taking too

Has struggled massively defending this season when I’ve seen him. Not very good at it. Cracking left foot though.

My personal favourite would be Shea Charles, think CoolClaret suggested him earlier. Got all the technical and physical qualities along with the potential. Apparently wants a move this Summer too.

Like the look of Amir Richardson but not sure that one would be possible.

Charles had a very good season for Sheff Weds, but my concern there is whether he’s still a bit young to be commanding a starting role in the PL, plus Saints will probably ask for a daft number. With Bajcetic at least he’s had some top flight football.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Bajcetic is still only 20 and a highly rated midfielder. Think either him or Morton at Liverpool will move on permanently this summer.

[Mattster]

Charles had a very good season for Sheff Weds, but my concern there is whether he’s still a bit young to be commanding a starting role in the PL, plus Saints will probably ask for a daft number. With Bajcetic at least he’s had some top flight football.

Charles has got 57 Championship starts. Bajcetic has 6 Austrian Bundesliga starts, 6 Premier League starts and 12 La Liga starts. I'd say there's not much in it.

But yeah he'd probably cost a decent amount though I'd prefer to spend on someone who is ours to develop than loan someone else's who, if he did well, would never be ours.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Not sure mate, I just know we need big lads with a bit of experience that won't cost stupid money. He ticks a few boxes

Vegas I’ve never really thought of Billing as a “big lad” like a Caicedo or Doucoure or similar.

Yes he’s big, but he doesn’t seem to get stuck in and close up a midfield like we would want. He’s a bit like Sander, more of a tall ball player than a physical presence

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Cannot afford the likes of Mee and Barnes in our 25man squad IMO. We will be in a dog fight for survival and neither of these two Claret stalwarts will help the cause by being in the 25. Of the present squad before outgoings and accepting returnees we have around 33 players in the squad over 21 and the reality is we will name 3 keepers and then just have room for 22 outfield players.
Depending on where Barnes and Mee are with their coaching badges if both can inculcate their skills and nouse into the younger players then that could be a big plus.

I am the BeeHoleEnd Literary Bot and I award you 25 points for the use of inculcate. Only used 6 times in the message board history ( and twice by Rowls yawnnnn).

These points can of course be cashed in for a pint on ClaretTony

Yours
Literary Bot.

[Cooclaret]

Bajcetic is still only 20 and a highly rated midfielder. Think either him or Morton at Liverpool will move on permanently this summer.

We’d do well to get them both! Top talents.

[Vegas Claret]

Vegas I’ve never really thought of Billing as a “big lad” like a Caicedo or Doucoure or similar.

Yes he’s big, but he doesn’t seem to get stuck in and close up a midfield like we would want. He’s a bit like Sander, more of a tall ball player than a physical presence

he's 6ft 4, I'm talking about height because every team is full of giants

[SirBob]

We’d do well to get them both! Top talents.

Liverpool demand top money for their youngsters, doubt we’d be able to afford either of them

[Vegas Claret]

Liverpool demand top money for their youngsters, doubt we’d be able to afford either of them

and they don't have PSR issues, you would imagine the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd and Villa are the ones who might be looking to do deals with their younger lads

[Woodleyclaret]

Tarks wants longer deal at Everton worth a punt on one of the best defenders around?

[Vegas Claret]

Tarks wants longer deal at Everton worth a punt on one of the best defenders around?

he's on around 100k a week

[Jakubclaret]

he's on around 100k a week

If we want to really stay in this division this time around sometimes you have to bite the bullet. I guess the question is is there better value elsewhere.

[Vegas Claret]

If we want to really stay in this division this time around sometimes you have to bite the bullet. I guess the question is is there better value elsewhere.

Can I have one of those money trees you must have, there are a few things I'd like but can't afford

[Jakubclaret]

Can I have one of those money trees you must have, there are a few things I'd like but can't afford

It's false economics though if you are looking at savings because you are probably losing more with relegation.

[Vegas Claret]

It's false economics though if you are looking at savings because you are probably losing more with relegation.

So you think a lad on 100k a week is going to go to a club with relegation clauses in his contract ?

[GetIntoEm]

There would absolutely top half prem clubs even those qualifying for Europe who'd take tarks ahead of us.

Need to be realistic

[aggi]

So you think a lad on 100k a week is going to go to a club with relegation clauses in his contract ?

He'll have signed for Everton with a relegation clause in his contract. But obviously there is more chance of it being triggered at Burnley.

[Jakubclaret]

So you think a lad on 100k a week is going to go to a club with relegation clauses in his contract ?

No idea. In terms of his age he is approaching the end so eventually he'll get replaced of find another club, clubs are reluctant to extend too far after a certain age. sometimes you just need to have a do & pay the money instead of regretting later.

[boatshed bill]

With one eye on the highly possible prospect of another relegation, I think we need to sign players who will grow with us.
In that respect I can see where VK was coming from; we need players whose value will increase over a couple of seasons... but also will be prepared to stay if we go down.

[ollieclarets8]

With one eye on the highly possible prospect of another relegation, I think we need to sign players who will grow with us.
In that respect I can see where VK was coming from; we need players whose value will increase over a couple of seasons... but also will be prepared to stay if we go down.

I'm with you on this. It's not even about negative either, if anything it's just proactive. Planning to be stronger in 2 seasons time. We're doing very well overall with the players we are bringing in.

[CoolClaret]

With one eye on the highly possible prospect of another relegation, I think we need to sign players who will grow with us.
In that respect I can see where VK was coming from; we need players whose value will increase over a couple of seasons... but also will be prepared to stay if we go down.

That's exactly my thinking now as well BB.

Say roughly 10-20% incomings for our short term ambition, 60-70% 2+ year development, 10-20% speculative punts/4+ year development.

Say there were 10 incomings:

- 2 more established pros with top-flight exp.
- 6 sort of young high-end champ-level players with scope to growth, 20-25 year old
- 2 players in the Koleosho mould, young, inexperienced, but with raw potential.

That's about as good a formula as we can follow, imo.

Incidentally, it's a pretty similar ratio to the 23 summer window; just needed a bit more in the right areas and a better player profile (i.e. won't hand a transfer request in if we are to be relegated).

[jojomk1]

With one eye on the highly possible prospect of another relegation, I think we need to sign players who will grow with us.
In that respect I can see where VK was coming from; we need players whose value will increase over a couple of seasons... but also will be prepared to stay if we go down.

Where VK was coming from ?

Seem to recall a lot of VK's signings couldn't wait to jump ship when we got relegated

[ollieclarets8]

Where VK was coming from ?

Seem to recall a lot of VK's signings couldn't wait to jump ship when we got relegated

I think he means VK's profit making. Whether they want to jump ship or not, we did sell most at a profit.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think he means VK's profit making. Whether they want to jump ship or not, we did sell most at a profit.

I’m not sure many did sell for a profit did they?

I know Odobert did but apart from that the rest are much of a muchness arnt they?