BFC Women Go Pro!

[ŽižkovClaret]

Great news this morning that we have committed to our Women's team going fully pro

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... ext-season

[Rowls]

Great news!

Hope the converging fortunes of our respective ladies teams means we can sign a few from Venky-ettes.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Got to be a chance of replacing Rovers in the WSL2.

Forest are up, Sheff Utd are down. The leading other full time teams are all in the north, Wolves, Stoke, Burnley in that order from league position.

To play in the 2nd tier requires investment, no guarantee those other clubs would be willing to make it so our club would be right to chance its arm just in case, however unlikely.

[ŽižkovClaret]

I'd imagine Sheff Utd would expect 1st dibs, with Rovers effectively relegated in their place

[wilks_bfc]

Maybe now pro, they can sort a venue in the area for them to play rather than having to got to Leyland for their home games

[Woodleyclaret]

Surely home games at the Turf with free admission for ticket holders and cheap rates for others

[Commy]

Wolves aren't going to invest so they will stay in the same league. They didn't tell their players that they weren't going to invest though so they were trying for a promotion that was never going to happen.

[steve1264b]

Only one team can be promoted so it's another tough season ahead, we were well short last season if the truth be told. Venky-ettes (i love that rowls) are either on 15k or 9k each depending if they are full time or studying etc.

So lets say 18 players on 15k is 270k a year plus additional costs such as head of women's game, coaches etc the fun outlay must be close to 500k.

I have a mate who is a scout for Chelsea ladies and he is far from complimentary about the standard of Women's National League North.

[Commy]

I don't think Rovers players were full time. If you were earning £15k you would need another job to survive.

[burnmark]

Surely home games at the Turf with free admission for ticket holders and cheap rates for others

They’ve done that quite a bit and attendances have been pretty poor

[dandeclaret]

Surely home games at the Turf with free admission for ticket holders and cheap rates for others

Why does everything have to be free or cheap? The price should be in line with the product provided, and if the club are going to invest, then they should get back some revenue to reflect that.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Why does everything have to be free or cheap? The price should be in line with the product provided, and if the club are going to invest, then they should get back some revenue to reflect that.

Exactly. I think 10 quid adults 5 quid kids, 25 quid family ticket in family stand / section (2 adults & up to 3 kids).

They also need a proper ground. Ideally not a shared one. Turf Moor is too big just now

[jlup1980]

Why does everything have to be free or cheap? The price should be in line with the product provided, and if the club are going to invest, then they should get back some revenue to reflect that.

I agree 100%, but here lies the problem!

Going full time professional is a great commitment by the club, but it brings its own pitfalls. Ultimately, it's a commercial venture. They may be financially small costs compared to the mens game, but opening and staffing the Turf every other week will cost the same as any game (if all 4 stands are in use).

It remains to be seen how large the attendances could be in the future, but incentives haven't landed particularly well so far, so how would they be impacted if the walk on price was suddenly £15?

I hope it's a success, but I can't see how they'd be able to play regularly at the Turf without losing a decent amount of money... and that's not ALK's interests.

[steve1264b]

I don't think Rovers players were full time. If you were earning £15k you would need another job to survive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... y88zdgzp8o

[claretonthecoast1882]

Why does everything have to be free or cheap? The price should be in line with the product provided, and if the club are going to invest, then they should get back some revenue to reflect that.

Exactly this, there have been comments for long enough about how unfair it is that some would have to travel to far flung places like Leyland to watch them and games should be in the town.

If games are moved to the town, then they will have to be for free or virtually cost nothing.

Once they are in Burnley and the games are free the vast majority with the demands still won't go.

[NottsClaret]

It’s basically semi-pro. I’m fully supportive of women’s football but I can’t see it generating the income necessary to become a realistic pro sport beyond the very top level.

That said, it’s tremendously popular now at grassroots and junior level as a participation sport.. and god forbid people play sport simply for the enjoyment and desire to be their best. If they can earn decent extra money too, that’s great, but ultimately it will have to be self sustaining I guess.

[burnmark]

It will be interesting to see the pay that the players get. The captain in the recent Keep The Faith episode mentioned she had postponed her PE teaching career to go professional. That’s an annual wage, dependent on the stage of her career, of at least £31,650 that she would have been on.

[agreenwood]

The club will need to encourage existing Burnley fans and new fans to attend the games.

Football fandom isn’t as fixed as some make out. Plenty of teams grow fanbase and they don’t always have to come from within an existing fanbase.

London City Lionesses has over 2k at a recent game and have no affiliation to an established men’s team.

[Foshiznik]

It’s probably relatively hard to promote fan increases when the club plays 33 miles from the potential fans unless Leyland is a hotbed for women’s football fans and I’m just unaware. I’d be looking to getting an arrangement with Accy Stanley or another local club for a women’s home stadium closer to Burnley as I would guess the idea of a purpose built stadium would be financially irresponsible at this time. Would love to see it though, even if at gawthorpe and shared with our men’s development team.

[Dyched]

For me, womens football needs to be more an american system. College/uni level and then a closed shop pro level.

[ŽižkovClaret]

A temp stand at Gawthorpe should be beyond us although i assume planning has been an issue?

Did i hear someone suggested Barden at some point? A 300 or so capacity stand there couldnt be beyond the realms of possibility surely?

[Foshiznik]

A temp stand at Gawthorpe should be beyond us although i assume planning has been an issue?

Did i hear someone suggested Barden at some point? A 300 or so capacity stand there couldnt be beyond the realms of possibility surely?

That’s what I was thinking. Not sure if my thought of using the Crown Ground was a bit to grandiose for the level our team is at but there has to be somewhere more suitable than a 30 minute drive to Leyland.

[ŽižkovClaret]

That’s what I was thinking. Not sure if my thought of using the Crown Ground was a bit to grandiose for the level our team is at but there has to be somewhere more suitable than Leyland.

I'd just like them not to be playing 2nd fiddle to a men's team which i assume was the issue with the previous Padiham/Accy projects.

IF we stay at Leyland surely they could at least put a supporters coach on. Run it regardless of take up at first, got to cast a line to catch a fish.

[Brucefanclaret]

Newcastle get crowds of above 2k at their games. They sell separate season tickets for the women’s games and play at the rugby stadium next to SJP. The fans take flags and banners and really get behind the team. Amanda Staveley championed it when she was on the Board.

[aggi]

Looks like they have applied to take Blackburn's place in WSL2 according to the BBC.

[Rowls]

For me, womens football needs to be more an american system. College/uni level and then a closed shop pro level.

Hmmmm, interesting proposition. It's possible these days, from a legal perspective, since we left the EU.

[NewClaret]

Newcastle get crowds of above 2k at their games. They sell separate season tickets for the women’s games and play at the rugby stadium next to SJP. The fans take flags and banners and really get behind the team. Amanda Staveley championed it when she was on the Board.

Brilliant news. Even better if it can bag us a promotion. I usually like to earn promotion but with only one space available each season it’s a tough ask to fund pro investment year on year so hopefully the WSL2 consider our offer.

On the financial side, I think some fans look at how popular the women’s game is today and assume that will remain the same but at grass roots level and also in the US women’s football is booming so there’s a fair chance to say in a decade or two there will be far greater interest than there is today. In the meantime, I think the free tickets helps boost interest and act as a really good perk for ST holders. They should properly administer the loyalty points for women and academy games to encourage more on.

We may only get 500 or so today but if the games were in the WSL against the bigger clubs I expect we’d attract far more.

I personally think games should be at the Turf but definitely somewhere closer than Leyland. That would be a great next step for the women’s team, to sort out a proper home.

[NewClaret]

A temp stand at Gawthorpe should be beyond us although i assume planning has been an issue?

Did i hear someone suggested Barden at some point? A 300 or so capacity stand there couldnt be beyond the realms of possibility surely?

I think something at the training ground has to be under consideration for the U18s, U21s, women’s team, tournaments they hold, etc.

Some horrible metal monstrosity would probably struggle to pass but something built from more natural materials, green roof, etc would presumably be looked upon more favourably.

[NewClaret]

That’s what I was thinking. Not sure if my thought of using the Crown Ground was a bit to grandiose for the level our team is at but there has to be somewhere more suitable than a 30 minute drive to Leyland.

If memory serves, they announced Accy as the home ground one season and promptly and quietly changed it to Leyland without playing a game. Not sure why, whether there was a falling out or they hadn’t got all the i’s dotted and t’s crossed before the announcement.

Ideally I’d prefer games at the Turf or another solution in Burnley, but Accy is better than Leyland.

[The Shire Claret]

The woman's game is only going one way so investment now to reap the benefits later is sensible from the powers that be at the club.

Might not pay off but worth the low risk

Maybe one day it will get to the point where the men play at home one week then the ladies play at home the week after for all clubs in the future and get attendances a lot higher than now.

Time will tell

[Holtyclaret]

I’d imagine games will be at Turf ultimately. Wouldn’t cost greatly to open just the Bob Lord until attendances demanded other stands open, like Jimmy Mac Lower. Great news all round.

Am I right in thinking monies invested in the ladies game could be used to aid psr?

[ŽižkovClaret]

I’d imagine games will be at Turf ultimately. Wouldn’t cost greatly to open just the Bob Lord until attendances demanded other stands open, like Jimmy Mac Lower. Great news all round.

Am I right in thinking monies invested in the ladies game could be used to aid psr?

Investments in infrastructure don't negatively impact, but the only direct positive financial benefit really is if you build it to the point it can be sold as an asset

[fatboy47]

The woman's game is only going one way

If by that you mean a bunch of elite clubs throwing millions at it to improve their marketability/image whilst the lesser clubs scrape together comparitive peanuts for it in an attempt to appear progressive....all the usual clubs lovingly fawned upon and patronised by the arselickers at Broadcasting House then yes.

I'd only chuck as much money at this as clear interest and prospects of a return on the investment justify...so currently not much if any.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Personally i'd like the club to follow the european model and adopt / create several teams under the Burnley umbrella.

Football (Mens)
Football (Ladies)
Netball
Basketball
Volleyball
Hockey

Get loads of people engaged and involved with the club across the town. The costs are really miniscule compared to the engagement and unity that it creates in a town


(Not cricket though, UTH ha)

[Commy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... y88zdgzp8o

They aren't full time. The one that earns £15k travels from the South to play matches.

[Losing Eyres]

I wonder if going fulltime means that our girls teams would become an academy?
Rovers girls currently are the only female academy club in Lancashire which might also be at risk with their cost cutting.

[The Shire Claret]

If by that you mean a bunch of elite clubs throwing millions at it to improve their marketability/image whilst the lesser clubs scrape together comparitive peanuts for it in an attempt to appear progressive....all the usual clubs lovingly fawned upon and patronised by the arselickers at Broadcasting House then yes.

I'd only chuck as much money at this as clear interest and prospects of a return on the investment justify...so currently not much if any.

As a Burnley fan I would love to have a strong men a woman’s team and don’t really care about the rest like other fans of other clubs

If you are talking about the quality of the woman’s game … with the investment and the fact that girls now play football at grass roots levels more than ever .. the quality will only improve and become more entertaining to football fans …

If your talking about if there is a clear interest … if the quality and entertainment improves — more people will watch but it needs a chance to grow and get some real stars

Throwing money at it … kind of what every owner of every club does for the most part no ?

More or less every club loses money every season but don’t Chuck the men’s game in the bin

The quality of the woman’s isnt anywhere near on par with the men’s but it’s early doors and yeah the BBC etc … push it way too hard for where it’s at at times …

But as someone that has family that have lads and lasses loving their football at grass roots and they all love playing equally … they all deserve a chance

[NewClaret]

I really don’t understand this quality argument that’s rolled out by some at all.

Are the women as good as the men in tennis? No. Often the women’s games are much better to watch though.

Do we all stop supporting Burnley when we get relegated to a the Championship where the quality is often dire in comparison to the Premier League? No. Often they’re much more enjoyable seasons.

Are the U21s or 18’s as good as the first team? No. But can I enjoy watching one of their games just as much as the first team. Definitely. I can enjoy any game of evenly matched teams at any level.

At grassroots level they often have mixed teams at younger age groups and a lot of the girls that are coming through are better than the boys. In a decade or so the difference in quality will be much smaller. So hugely welcome this investment by the club.

[NewClaret]

I wonder if going fulltime means that our girls teams would become an academy?
Rovers girls currently are the only female academy club in Lancashire which might also be at risk with their cost cutting.

This is a good point. I thought Accy had a girls Academy but it might just be teams?

Anyway, despite being horrendously run, Rovers have been ahead of us on the Women’s and Academy side somehow. Great that recent developments put us in our rightful place as best team in Lancashire. We should pick up their Academy teams if that’s also under threat.

I don’t think it would cost too much given we have a big coaching staff already and all the infrastructure. I also think we should lean in to volunteers because I think there’s many a young and aspiring coach out there that would welcome the chance to get involved with the club at girls Academy level to build their experience and qualifications.

[NewClaret]

Personally i'd like the club to follow the european model and adopt / create several teams under the Burnley umbrella.

Football (Mens)
Football (Ladies)
Netball
Basketball
Volleyball
Hockey

Get loads of people engaged and involved with the club across the town. The costs are really miniscule compared to the engagement and unity that it creates in a town


(Not cricket though, UTH ha)

Brilliant post and entirely agree. The infrastructure is there with the Leisure Box, etc.

I’d add veterans team (sure we have that actually) and a walking football team.

Completely agree about the community engagement it would bring and for the same reason I’d love to see the club do much more at grass roots level to support teams from Burnley and beyond. You shouldn’t be able to be a young player at a local club without having had a few sessions coaching from club staff at some point.

I also think we should have closer ties with Burnley CC for what it’s worth, a partnership of sorts, but that’s a different topic.

[NewClaret]

If by that you mean a bunch of elite clubs throwing millions at it to improve their marketability/image whilst the lesser clubs scrape together comparitive peanuts for it in an attempt to appear progressive....all the usual clubs lovingly fawned upon and patronised by the arselickers at Broadcasting House then yes.

I'd only chuck as much money at this as clear interest and prospects of a return on the investment justify...so currently not much if any.

I think you’re saying our investment should be organic and sustainable, which I agree with to an extent.

I see investment in the women’s game quite differently though. I doubt you’ll ever get an investment case to stack up on an ROI basis at the moment, but in 10, 20, 30 years the money in the women’s game could look very different. By which point, a lot more money might be required to reach the riches of the top division.

Putting the investment to build the foundations now and getting to the WSL might end up being very financially rewarding longer term.

I also think it’s more than just appearing progressive from an investors viewpoint. Having a successful women’s team in the WSL would make a huge difference to building our brand. Another potential game on (terrestrial) TV every week against the top teams in the country, potential to grow our fanbase, additional content/engagement for our SM channels, more advertising exposure, merchandising opportunities, etc, etc.

Put another way, when Alan is trying to convince investors to buy in to his fund that owns BFC, I think having a WSL women’s team, a Cat 1 Academy, etc along side being a premier league club, makes a more compelling package to invest in.

[dougcollins]

Maybe now pro, they can sort a venue in the area for them to play rather than having to got to Leyland for their home games

Yes, good point.

[fatboy47]

I think you’re saying our investment should be organic and sustainable, which I agree with to an extent.

I see investment in the women’s game quite differently though. I doubt you’ll ever get an investment case to stack up on an ROI basis at the moment, but in 10, 20, 30 years the money in the women’s game could look very different. By which point, a lot more money might be required to reach the riches of the top division.

Putting the investment to build the foundations now and getting to the WSL might end up being very financially rewarding longer term.

I also think it’s more than just appearing progressive from an investors viewpoint. Having a successful women’s team in the WSL would make a huge difference to building our brand. Another potential game on (terrestrial) TV every week against the top teams in the country, potential to grow our fanbase, additional content/engagement for our SM channels, more advertising exposure, merchandising opportunities, etc, etc.

Put another way, when Alan is trying to convince investors to buy in to his fund that owns BFC, I think having a WSL women’s team, a Cat 1 Academy, etc along side being a premier league club, makes a more compelling package to invest in.

Good post....I see your point...my real reservation is about the practicality of getting to the top table where the usual pigs are already guzzling at the trough. Existence at any lower level than WSL already looks (to me at least) like something that can only be an ongoing drain on club funds....fine for a handful of billionaire-owned elite clubs but we're a club that needs to watch every pound we spend.

With any kind of level playing field, I'd love to see a women's team alongside the men's....but it's not level, it's being carved up by the fatcats just like the men's game.

[JR1882]

Spending on the women’s team is exempt from PSR, that’s why the top clubs push it so hard as it widens their brand and doesn’t need to be accounted for in terms of meeting financial rules, and I’d imagine it’s a relatively small outlay.

[aggi]

I wonder if going fulltime means that our girls teams would become an academy?
Rovers girls currently are the only female academy club in Lancashire which might also be at risk with their cost cutting.

I can't remember the exact details but I think the FA were involved in deciding which clubs got academies with an attempt to spread them geographically. There was some chat on here some time ago.

[NewClaret]

Good post....I see your point...my real reservation is about the practicality of getting to the top table where the usual pigs are already guzzling at the trough. Existence at any lower level than WSL already looks (to me at least) like something that can only be an ongoing drain on club funds....fine for a handful of billionaire-owned elite clubs but we're a club that needs to watch every pound we spend.

With any kind of level playing field, I'd love to see a women's team alongside the men's....but it's not level, it's being carved up by the fatcats just like the men's game.

Fair point, and I have said all that absent any knowledge of the numbers involved. I read that WSL TV money is a combined £10m which won’t be a lot to each club. So I suspect you’re right that the billionaire-owned clubs subsidise must their teams a lot.

But a converse way of looking at that is we therefore need to do it the Burnley way. Build a team capable of competing without too much money by gelling a team with real togetherness, a strong jaw, great work ethic, good defensive resilience, all complimented with a bit of quality.

The mens game is way more competitive overall so if we can achieve it at that level we should be more than capable of achieving it in an emerging pyramid.

I agree with you that it shouldn’t be something the club have to fund too much in the longer term but also think investing now, getting to and establishing ourselves at that level fairly quickly is probably going to be more cost effective than trying to do it in five or ten years time.

[Lip]

A team full of Pro's,what's not to like.!well done BFC ladies..

[ClaretTony]

I can't remember the exact details but I think the FA were involved in deciding which clubs got academies with an attempt to spread them geographically. There was some chat on here some time ago.

I found this but it's from seven years ago


The 11 clubs* who will be part of the FA WSL academy programme are (listed with their relevant TASS delivery site):

Arsenal / University of Hertfordshire
Birmingham City / University of Birmingham
Brighton & Hove Albion / University of Brighton
Bristol City / University of Gloucester
Chelsea / St Mary’s University
Liverpool and Everton / Liverpool John Moores University
Manchester City / Manchester Metropolitan University
Reading /Buckinghamshire New University
West Ham United / University of East London
Yeovil Town / University of Exeter

*In addition, The FA East Region U19 programme, in partnership with Ipswich Town, will also compete in the competition programme and plans are developing to establish a North East Academy for next season.

[burnmark]

I think Blackburn were one of the original Centre Of Excellence’s rather than an Academy. I managed a Burnley FC Girls team and was a lucky to have a really good squad of players. We lost a number to Blackburn and another to United which was also a Centre of Excellence at the time.

[DanH90]

I think the fact this didn’t even warrant an article on this site is a real shame. I appreciate that some don’t have an interest in the woman’s game, but as a site that alleges to be a proponent of all news about the Clarets, the women’s team becoming full time is big news. Far bigger than the U18 fixtures mid season IMHO.

This attitude is the reason the women’s game has struggled for so long! Let’s allow the quality to improve by getting behind it and allowing our daughters and granddaughters to become part of something hopefully of real quality in future!