Summer transfer window

[AlbertFish]

Take all the clean sheets away from the defence and they were “highly ineffective”.
Take all the wins away from Liverpool and their season was “highly ineffective”.
Chris Wood scored 20 goals and had 3 assists for Forest last year. Take away his goals and he was “highly ineffective”. See what a nonsense argument that is?!
Zion Flemming played up front. He scored goals playing up front. What more did you want from him? You called him highly ineffective, not just ineffective, highly ineffective. He really wasn’t.

[Steddyman]

Not sure if this has been shared before, but this is a really good analysis of our squad and new signings: https://youtu.be/X82LY-z01tQ?si=MEbePAUoK2Ozh7kd

[NewClaret]

Take all the clean sheets away from the defence and they were “highly ineffective”.
Take all the wins away from Liverpool and their season was “highly ineffective”.
Chris Wood scored 20 goals and had 3 assists for Forest last year. Take away his goals and he was “highly ineffective”. See what a nonsense argument that is?!
Zion Flemming played up front. He scored goals playing up front. What more did you want from him? You called him highly ineffective, not just ineffective, highly ineffective. He really wasn’t.

If Flemming isn’t a striker I don’t know what he is because apart from his goal contributions I thought his all round play and falling over made him highly ineffective last year.

^ That’s what I said. You seem to be focussing on two words of a sentence, for some strange reason, and ignoring the words before and after it. I’ve boldened the relevant parts of the sentence to help you out, but if you can’t read and understand a whole sentence then I can’t debate it further with you.

[CyrilEbokiPoh]

He's better than what we've got.

Fully agree. And he’s only 27 and will not cost much. I’d be all over it myself.

[AlbertFish]

If Flemming isn’t a striker I don’t know what he is because apart from his goal contributions I thought his all round play and falling over made him highly ineffective last year.

^ That’s what I said. You seem to be focussing on two words of a sentence, for some strange reason, and ignoring the words before and after it. I’ve boldened the relevant parts of the sentence to help you out, but if you can’t read and understand a whole sentence then I can’t debate it further with you.

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

[CyrilEbokiPoh]

I still don’t understand how long it will take before fans see Foster isn’t the answer and needs to be sold. He’s been here for 2 and a half years and had a handful of good games.

It’s very weird how Foster can get all the support for over 2 years (with most of that in the 2nd tier) despite producing nothing when the likes of Amdouni and Trafford were absolutely slaughtered on here after a few months in the PL.

It must be a sympathy thing because of his mental health issues. Fans see a player so out of his depth, who has the technique of an amateur they feel sorry for him.

I don’t think it’s a sympathy thing at all. I think it’s an expectation and pressure thing. Amdouni and Trafford came with a much higher fee, reputation and expectation and also dislodged fan favourites. Tresor has had some issues. But fans are less forgiving of him too

[NewClaret]

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Will try and spell this out more clearly…

Steddyman said: Fleming isn't a striker, and that was apparent this year though he did pretty well in a much weaker league.

To which I said: If Flemming isn’t a striker I don’t know what he is because apart from his goal contributions I thought his all round play and falling over made him highly ineffective last year.

So, if you follow the thread, I was saying Flemming must be a striker because the goals are his main strength. He is not a 10. His all round game was otherwise very poor, but his goals redeemed him. Worth noting he scored some crucial ones, some stunners, but also for balance missed a lot of sitters and was poor in the air for a man his size.

If you disagree and you think he is a 10, happy to debate that, else I think we’re agreeing.

[fungus_the_bogeyman]

agree - Luton in general were terrible. But overall he has been a decent championship target man and was good for Luton in the season they were at this level. 10 goals in 27 games is not to be sniffed at. Granted it was one season at this level. But for a few million he would be a good option for us.

Adebayo was terrible too. Him and Morris missed the most big chances in the league last season. Luton’s fans said he was like a completely different player from the Premier League season, where I agree he looked good. Sounds like his confidence is shot. I would avoid at all costs.

[Hedontplayforyou]

We can do a lot better than Adebayo.

No sorry, we HAVE to do a lot lot better than Adebayo

[AlbertFish]

To which I said: If Flemming isn’t a striker I don’t know what he is because apart from his goal contributions I thought his all round play and falling over made him highly ineffective last year.

If you ignore him doing his job, he did nowt. He scored goals, he was not “highly ineffective”.

Never play chess with a pigeon.
The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then craps all over the board.
Then struts around like it won.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Brief Twitter round up.

Diouf looks like he’s going to Germany.
We want 20m for Amdouni

[NewClaret]

If you ignore him doing his job, he did nowt. He scored goals, he was not “highly ineffective”.

Never play chess with a pigeon.
The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then craps all over the board.
Then struts around like it won.

See, there you go, we agree again. Definitely no point playing chess with a pigeon.

[ollieclarets8]

See, there you go, we agree again. Definitely no point playing chess with a pigeon.

They know how to play the rook.

[Big Vinny K]

Will try and spell this out more clearly…

Steddyman said: Fleming isn't a striker, and that was apparent this year though he did pretty well in a much weaker league.

To which I said: If Flemming isn’t a striker I don’t know what he is because apart from his goal contributions I thought his all round play and falling over made him highly ineffective last year.

So, if you follow the thread, I was saying Flemming must be a striker because the goals are his main strength. He is not a 10. His all round game was otherwise very poor, but his goals redeemed him. Worth noting he scored some crucial ones, some stunners, but also for balance missed a lot of sitters and was poor in the air for a man his size.

If you disagree and you think he is a 10, happy to debate that, else I think we’re agreeing.

Missed a lot of sitters ?

Struggling to remember one but refresh our memory with naming lots of these.

I can remember a few sitters missed from Foster though.

Flemmings all round play improved for me as the season went on and as he started to get a run of games and we had players like Hannibal hitting form and running beyond the strikers regularly.

It’s hard to believe some of us are watching the same game when you are describing Flemming as ineffective, very poor, missing lots of sitters and yet at the same time saying you think Foster is good enough for the EPL when he has just had such a shocking season.

[bobinho]

Will try and spell this out more clearly…

Steddyman said: Fleming isn't a striker, and that was apparent this year though he did pretty well in a much weaker league.

To which I said: If Flemming isn’t a striker I don’t know what he is because apart from his goal contributions I thought his all round play and falling over made him highly ineffective last year.

So, if you follow the thread, I was saying Flemming must be a striker because the goals are his main strength. He is not a 10. His all round game was otherwise very poor, but his goals redeemed him. Worth noting he scored some crucial ones, some stunners, but also for balance missed a lot of sitters and was poor in the air for a man his size.

If you disagree and you think he is a 10, happy to debate that, else I think we’re agreeing.

Poor in the air? He was excellent all season in the air.

[CyrilEbokiPoh]

Adebayo was terrible too. Him and Morris missed the most big chances in the league last season. Luton’s fans said he was like a completely different player from the Premier League season, where I agree he looked good. Sounds like his confidence is shot. I would avoid at all costs.

That could be down to any number of reasons.

Wood was the same the season we sold him. Look at him last year.

[NewClaret]

Poor in the air? He was excellent all season in the air.

Missed a lot more than he scored.

Although I’ll let him off that for burying the most important chance he got with his noggin

[bpgburn]

...But take those goals out of his game and I thought “highly ineffective” was being polite. He was slow, couldn’t hold up, couldn’t link up, miss-placed many simple passes, never on the half turn, threw himself to the floor claiming fouls that never were...

Take away the goals of someone playing in the position of a striker whose job it is to score goals and he's ineffective? You couldn't make it up!
Not to mention you would rather Foster to Flemming up front if push comes to shove.

As much as I like Foster and feel for him with his struggles, he is not and never will be a No.9..

[NewClaret]

Missed a lot of sitters ?

Struggling to remember one but refresh our memory with naming lots of these.

I can remember a few sitters missed from Foster though.

Flemmings all round play improved for me as the season went on and as he started to get a run of games and we had players like Hannibal hitting form and running beyond the strikers regularly.

It’s hard to believe some of us are watching the same game when you are describing Flemming as ineffective, very poor, missing lots of sitters and yet at the same time saying you think Foster is good enough for the EPL when he has just had such a shocking season.

He missed loads of sitters, ironically I felt more towards the end of the season. Though that might be linked to your point that more chances were created to be missed as the season when on.

There was one game he missed two in the first half. From memory a free header then an easy chance at the far post. It was a game we should’ve been 4-5 up by HT but weren’t. I can’t remember who against, and don’t have signal at the moment to check the highlights but I’ll have a look later.

I don’t really subscribe to your feeling that he got better as the season went on, or if he did I didn’t really notice it, but the team did so maybe you’re right. My overriding memory of Flemming is sheer frustration at his game and then elation at a goal he cropped up with. Hence me saying he must be a striker.

Foster did also miss sitters, agree on that. The reason I think there’s a lot more chance he’ll make it in the Premier League is his hold up play and his pace. I thought Flemming was really weak in both those aspects. They’re similar ages though, so let’s see who kicks on and has the better career here or elsewhere.

It might be Flemming, I’d say it’s almost certain he’s more mentally and physically tough than Foster, which obviously is another factor in the Premier League.

[NewClaret]

Take away the goals of someone playing in the position of a striker whose job it is to score goals and he's ineffective? You couldn't make it up!
Not to mention you would rather Foster to Flemming up front if push comes to shove.

As much as I like Foster and feel for him with his struggles, he is not and never will be a No.9..

Did you read my post? I was saying he is a striker precisely because he does score goals.

Foster delivered our best GA in the Premier League last time out with about 30% less games than the others as a central striker. He may or may not repeat that, but I’d start him over Flemming because I think his pace will be more important to how we play on transition next year.

Our whole style will change next year, which needs different attributes, and pace up front will be key. I think that’s pretty obvious and uncontroversial to be honest.

[whiffa]

And so chaos begins...

[Tricky Trevor]

Strange folk slagging Amdounis first touch. The only thing I thought he had was that and his ability to beat the first man. After that it went to rat ****.
I see £20m mentioned above. If true snap their hand off.

[bpgburn]

Did you read my post? I was saying he is a striker precisely because he does score goals.

I didn't actually, I tend not to and try my best to avoid them. I read what you put via a quote on another posters reply to you.

[Boss Hogg]

Amdouni I’d agree has a good touch. He’s lightweight though and no grafter. Not what I think we need in the PL.

[bfcmik]

Burnley fans are not fond of foreign strikers are they? At least from what we see on this board. Amdouni, Weghorst, Foster (South African but we bought him from Europe) - none of them good enough, despite being Internationals.

Of course, Vydra got exponentially better with every game he didn't get picked for, but neither Hennings nor Vossen were up for it at all!

[boatshed bill]

Burnley fans are not fond of foreign strikers are they? At least from what we see on this board. Amdouni, Weghorst, Foster (South African but we bought him from Europe) - none of them good enough, despite being Internationals.

Of course, Vydra got exponentially better with every game he didn't get picked for, but neither Hennings nor Vossen were up for it at all!

Isn't the main issue that we are looking for cheap(ish) options, and it's not working out?

[bfcmik]

Isn't the main issue that we are looking for cheap(ish) options, and it's not working out?

Absolutely - regular goalscorers cost LOTS!

[Steddyman]

Burnley fans are not fond of foreign strikers are they? At least from what we see on this board. Amdouni, Weghorst, Foster (South African but we bought him from Europe) - none of them good enough, despite being Internationals.

Of course, Vydra got exponentially better with every game he didn't get picked for, but neither Hennings nor Vossen were up for it at all!

It's not because we are racists, it is because the named strikers have terrible goal scoring records with us.

We have been spoiled with Ings, Austin, Barnes, Wood, Vokes and a host of other powerful strikers that scored goals for fun.

[Rileybobs]

He missed loads of sitters, ironically I felt more towards the end of the season. Though that might be linked to your point that more chances were created to be missed as the season when on.

There was one game he missed two in the first half. From memory a free header then an easy chance at the far post. It was a game we should’ve been 4-5 up by HT but weren’t. I can’t remember who against, and don’t have signal at the moment to check the highlights but I’ll have a look later.

I don’t really subscribe to your feeling that he got better as the season went on, or if he did I didn’t really notice it, but the team did so maybe you’re right. My overriding memory of Flemming is sheer frustration at his game and then elation at a goal he cropped up with. Hence me saying he must be a striker.

Foster did also miss sitters, agree on that. The reason I think there’s a lot more chance he’ll make it in the Premier League is his hold up play and his pace. I thought Flemming was really weak in both those aspects. They’re similar ages though, so let’s see who kicks on and has the better career here or elsewhere.

It might be Flemming, I’d say it’s almost certain he’s more mentally and physically tough than Foster, which obviously is another factor in the Premier League.

You think Foster’s hold up play is better than Flemming’s? Christ alive.

As for his their finishing, Flemming is miles more clinical. He scored some great goals last season and can’t remember many sitters missed, certainly not any as clear as the two Foster missed in the same match at PNE.

[boatshed bill]

You think Foster’s hold up play is better than Flemming’s? Christ alive.

As for his their finishing, Flemming is miles more clinical. He scored some great goals last season and can’t remember many sitters missed, certainly not any as clear as the two Foster missed in the same match at PNE.

If Foster could get anywhere near his original PL form he may actually have the physical attributes to make an impact. Flemming did a great job in an unfamiliar position, a position he may find too difficult in the PL.

[ksrclaret]

Flemming is the better player of the options currently available to us, and he’s a hell of a lot more physically and mentally robust as well.

Unless we sign another striker, which I’m sure we will but probably late on in the window, then Flemming should continue to play the CF role.

[Rileybobs]

If Foster could get anywhere near his original PL form he may actually have the physical attributes to make an impact. Flemming did a great job in an unfamiliar position, a position he may find too difficult in the PL.

Foster has the benefit of pace which Flemming doesn’t and this could be useful so I agree with your point - and I’m also not convinced Flemming will make a big impact in the PL. But I can’t believe anyone thinks that Foster offers better hold up play or is less wasteful than Flemming because that’s completely contrary to what I have seen.

[summitclaret]

Vydra was criminally under used. Brilliant movement. Too small for Dyche.

[Steddyman]

Vydra was criminally under used. Brilliant movement. Too small for Dyche.

*coughs* Ings

[NewClaret]

You think Foster’s hold up play is better than Flemming’s? Christ alive.

As for his their finishing, Flemming is miles more clinical. He scored some great goals last season and can’t remember many sitters missed, certainly not any as clear as the two Foster missed in the same match at PNE.

Yeah I do, a lot better. I can barely remember Flemming holding it up at all last season. More often than not he fell to the floor claiming a foul. For a big lad he didn’t half go down easily.

Foster loses his marker by dropping in faster/more and gets on the half turn. I don’t think I saw Flemming take the ball on the half turn once last season.

There were 3, I thought, big misses for Foster at Preston? That was a terrible game for him. They stand out because it was an incredibly frustrating draw towards the end of the season but there were plenty of others from Flemming. If you don’t think Flemming had many misses, do a search on “Flemming miss” - Sheff Wednesday, Cardiff, Hull, Derby, Oxford, Sunderland all appear on first page of 3 of fans ruing missed chances. This one from another poster summing up my feelings really:

Flemming 5 - Just not seeing it with him sorry. Can't hold it up and doesn't make runs in behind.

To be clear, my points in this whole debate are not really anything to do with a Flemming v Foster debate. I hope for our sake both are brilliant next year. My points were:

1. Strengthening our midfield should be our absolute first priority. If we can also strengthen up front, great. If not, I’d rather we strengthen midfield and go with one of our current forwards (very unlikely we’ll play two, I’d say), else we’ll concede too many goals and not create enough quality chances for it to matter who is up top.

2. Flemming is a striker (debate with Steddyman) because he scores goals but his all round game is otherwise not great, making him unsuitable for other positions. Having just read through a lot of the comments on match day/player rating threads I don’t think I’m alone in that view from last season. Players can of course get better and I hope he does.

Happy to debate either of those.

[SalouClaret]

Missed a lot more than he scored.

Although I’ll let him off that for burying the most important chance he got with his noggin

Every player in the Premier League misses more than they score

[boatshed bill]

I keep reading this "running in behind" as if PL defenses are that easy.

[Goliath]

*coughs* Ings

It's an interesting one this tbf because he didn't really have a choice but play Ings. He was also presumably streets ahead of anything else we had on the training ground so it will have been a no brainer.

If he'd been given Ings as a new signing in the PL lile Vydra was to compete with Barnes, Vokes and Wood as alternatives. It would be interesting to see who he'd have gone with.

[ksrclaret]

I keep reading this "running in behind" as if PL defenses are that easy.

I think most footballers should find it easy to run, personally.

[boatshed bill]

I think most footballers should find it easy to run, personally.

Of course, but the ability to time runs to arrive in a goalscoring position is a different matter.
Brownhill did very well in the Championship, the marking (or lack of it) was obvious. Doesn't happen so often in the PL.

[NewClaret]

If Foster could get anywhere near his original PL form he may actually have the physical attributes to make an impact. Flemming did a great job in an unfamiliar position, a position he may find too difficult in the PL.

It’s a big if, but his pre-illness form was brilliant. Kompany rightly called him “our best player” in MtB2! Interesting that he didn’t really use him in the Championship but started him in the Premier League…

He’s suited to the Premier League where teams will commit more men and he can use his pace on the counter to get in behind. Playing against low blocks wasn’t his bag and slow patient build ups in a possession based system wasn’t his bag. Although no excuses for his poor misses.

Worth saying last time out he got at least one goal unfairly chalked off vs Forest and another vs Villa in a really marginal offside call.

If we find that form again he’ll be a huge asset next season.

[NewClaret]

I keep reading this "running in behind" as if PL defenses are that easy.

This was his best game, so may be a somewhat unfair selection, but Foster scores two goals getting in behind high lines:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbLcnO8pysg

Forget the goals though, it’s the pace that’s worth watching. Beats Premier League defenders for pace!

[boatshed bill]

This was his best game, so may be a somewhat unfair selection, but Foster scores two goals getting in behind high lines:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbLcnO8pysg

Forget the goals though, it’s the pace that’s worth watching. Beats Premier League defenders for pace!

Yes, that's the sort of form he needs to get back to.

[NewClaret]

Yes, that's the sort of form he needs to get back to.

Remember walking off that game and nearly every Villa fan was talking about him. Great game, sadly not seen enough after that game.

I think he’s best deployed against high lines like Villa, and not all lines will push up as high as Villa’s there, but we’ll have a lot more of those next year than we’ve had this.

[Silkyskills1]

'his pre-illness form was brilliant'

Foster has never been brilliant. Not very good or even good. He has been very disappointing throughout his time at the club. He has had wonderful support, been given so much time but ultimately it hasn't worked out well for him nor us.

[PremierLeagueClass]

'his pre-illness form was brilliant'

Foster has never been brilliant. Not very good or even good. He has been very disappointing throughout his time at the club. He has had wonderful support, been given so much time but ultimately it hasn't worked out well for him nor us.

You clearly didn’t watch any of our early Premier League games under Kompany.

[Steddyman]

It's an interesting one this tbf because he didn't really have a choice but play Ings. He was also presumably streets ahead of anything else we had on the training ground so it will have been a no brainer.

If he'd been given Ings as a new signing in the PL lile Vydra was to compete with Barnes, Vokes and Wood as alternatives. It would be interesting to see who he'd have gone with.

I did think he was incredibly unfair on Vydra while he was with us. He felt like a personal vendetta, but was probably only Seans reluctance to change his teams.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Regarding Foster, he does have the physicality and the pace to worry those high lines as stated . Unfortunately he never has a run of fitness where he can gain some confidence to show us what he’s actually capable of.

He really needs to keep fit and prove his worth, or not as the case may be. As it stands it looks to be one of those , what if transfers .

[NewClaret]

Regarding Foster, he does have the physicality and the pace to worry those high lines as stated . Unfortunately he never has a run of fitness where he can gain some confidence to show us what he’s actually capable of.

He really needs to keep fit and prove his worth, or not as the case may be. As it stands it looks to be one of those , what if transfers .

I agree. Big season coming up. It’s make or break for him and down to him now whether he pushes on or falls off.

[CoolClaret]

Vydra was criminally under used. Brilliant movement. Too small for Dyche.

Agreed.

I recall when we smashed Bournemouth 4-0 at home, Vydra (and Lennon) were exceptional that game and we tore them to pieces, playing some real good stuff.

Had a bit of an off game in the following match at Cardiff, where he was subbed (but we still won!), then we never really saw him again - bizarre!