Football's Magic Money Tree

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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 23, 2025 11:27 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed May 08, 2024 5:58 pm
yet another expose on the activities of FIFA and UEFA integrity partner - Sportradar

from Josimar Football

Eva’s Saudi temptations
Sportradar’s in-play data from matches in Saudi Arabia, where gambling is illegal, is appearing on betting websites. How do data collected by the self-declared “global integrity leader” end up on illegal betting markets?

https://josimarfootball.com/2024/05/08/ ... mptations/
https://archive.ph/qx23Y
Ir has been quite some tine since Josimar Football have given a update on the - let's say questionable - activities, certainly for an entity that is the "integrity partner" of both FIFA and UEFA. Needless to say this brings yet more disturbing insights,

Below the radar
Uefa’s integrity partner Sportradar consistently claims that it doesn’t sell data to unlicensed gambling operators. But its annual report states that it generates significant revenue from unlicensed gambling.

https://archive.ph/H58wc

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 29, 2025 2:39 am

theduke wrote:
Sun Jul 06, 2025 6:23 am
Apparently Everton have also sold their women's team to themselves.

Just haven't announced it
the transition of Everton's women's team to a group company of the owners has now been confirmed at Companies House - there is no indication of an actual sale value, though there are plenty of people making estimates, The reasoning appears obvious enough and the door for this is not about to be closed unless the new independent regulator intervenes - which I do not believe they will given this is a legal business practice.

from The Times

Everton sell women’s team to parent company to boost transfer funds
Profit from the sale, which could be about £60million, will give club greater scope to sign players while remaining compliant with PSR, adopting same strategy as Chelsea and Aston Villa

https://archive.ph/dRQyh

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 29, 2025 6:25 pm

I may well be in a minority here

I find these new "initiatives" by broadcasters hugely intrusive, and for the most part will not lead to any greater insight, though occasionally they may veer to the exploitative. What I find interesting is that the Premier League is having to give away so much to maintain a domestic TV deal whose price is effectively similar to that 12 years ago - much less when inflation is added and considerably less than 12 years ago when considering the price per match.

from The Independent

Premier League clubs can ignore new rule next season – on one condition
A number of enhancements are being granted by top-flight clubs to broadcasters

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 98286.html
https://archive.ph/pP8Sj

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 29, 2025 10:46 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:34 pm
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that this would present challenges to the clubs involved - though the Aston Villa example may point to a way out for clubs in the coming season

from The Guardian

Demise of TGP Europe leaves Premier League clubs with income gap to fill
More than half of the top-flight clubs in 2024-25 had dealings with the company, which exited the British market last month

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ap-to-fill
https://archive.ph/MMBEP
As suggested above, it is Aston Villa (and Everton) who have demonstrated to fellow club owners how to circumvent/ignore/carry on regardless to the bans and warnings issued by the Gambling Commission

Here Josimar Football explains, how a change in demands/policy from the Gambling Commission has left the door wide open for these 'relationships' with illegal Asian betting operations to remain in English Football - what created this situation is not too difficult to imagine for anyone who has seen the sitcom Yes, Minister

Plus ça change
Money-laundering, scamming, cyber slavery compounds and appalling human rights abuses are no obstacles for Premier League clubs looking for betting partners – or the UK regulator.

https://josimarfootball.com/2025/07/29/plus-ca-change/
https://archive.ph/itwl7

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 30, 2025 2:33 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 18, 2025 7:15 pm
I must say that I am little surprised that it has taken so long for this to be acknowledged within government

from The Independent

Football clubs and agents named as ‘emerging risk’ in money laundering report
Football’s ‘hidden nature’ was raised as a specific issue in the annual report

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 91065.html
https://archive.ph/wip/E8fh1

you can access the full report - National Risk Assessment of Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing 2025 - here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _FINAL.pdf
It has been almost two weeks , finally someone else in the media has taken note

What is not noted here is that some of that money laundering could come
via the sponsorship of illegal Asian betting operations - particularly now that the Gambling Commission have changed their approach to UK entities receiving sponsorship from non-UK licensed operators. More so, when

no one appears to know who it is that actually ultimately owns those operators

from The Times

Football clubs vulnerable to criminal exploitation, says report
Government report says football risks being abused for money laundering, fraud and bribery and raises concerns about agents who act for both a player and a club

https://archive.ph/D0rOr

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 30, 2025 4:07 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jun 13, 2025 2:34 pm
Many people are frustrated by what they perceive to be unnecessary delays in the '115 charges' case against Manchester City - here Stefan Borson (an ex employee of Manchester City) explains in great detail why we are at least a year way from judgements being finalised and any punishments (if guilt is determined) are determined

EXPLAINED: 115 - when, what and how? A guide to the inevitable appeals
Only one more year to go?

https://stefanborson.substack.com/p/exp ... -and-how-a
https://archive.ph/nSR7x
No surprise to find another outlet reporting that there is still quite a way to go on this judgement - or that clubs are of many and varied opinions - I would expect ours to be largely supportive of anything that does not drastically impact Manchester City after the generous treatment it has had in the transfer market with them - which is probably a deliberate (diplomatic) policy of City and CFG

the sub-title is misleading, anyone who understood the nature of these things expected it to roll on for a long while yet before it is ultimately determined - and even then that is unlikely to be satisfactory to many following the November 2018 (yes nearly 7 years ago) Football Leaks (all contained up this thread) which set the ball rolling on all of this

from The Independent

Man City verdict on 100+ charges could be months away with further delays in sight
An outcome was expected last season given that the hearing concluded in early December

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 98350.html
https://archive.ph/UmRf7

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 30, 2025 10:12 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jul 29, 2025 2:39 am
the transition of Everton's women's team to a group company of the owners has now been confirmed at Companies House - there is no indication of an actual sale value, though there are plenty of people making estimates, The reasoning appears obvious enough and the door for this is not about to be closed unless the new independent regulator intervenes - which I do not believe they will given this is a legal business practice.

from The Times

Everton sell women’s team to parent company to boost transfer funds
Profit from the sale, which could be about £60million, will give club greater scope to sign players while remaining compliant with PSR, adopting same strategy as Chelsea and Aston Villa

https://archive.ph/dRQyh
It is possible that Everton not only sold the women's team but also Goodison Park to their owners in a 2 for 1 deal - that should increase the value of the deal

from The Guardian

Everton transfer ownership of Goodison Park to their women’s team
Hope is to increase appeal of Everton Women to investors
Capacity to start at 20,000 with scope to increase

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... omens-team
https://archive.ph/dBc8U

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 01, 2025 3:51 pm

The desire to standardise the size of tope Leagues (particularly in Europe) by the likes of UEFA and increasingly FIFA (now they have made significant inroads into the club game) has been long trailed in this thread. You may remember that the ECA and it's fore runner G14 were working on this quietly too - it featured heavily in Project Big Picture and even The Super League, both collapsing as a result of the actions of English fans (in the main).

The ideal for them all to have their competitions would be 16 and one domestic cup competition allowing the biggest to also compete on the continental and world stage, For most of the world this is not an issue, few places have leagues that exceed this number and those that do tend to be in the most established European Leagues, where only 3 now have as many as 20 teams (England, Spain and Italy). For now UEFA has conceded that 20 is a compromise worth working towards - with Italy likely to be the next to go, having discussed it for several years now, though that is not guaranteed given the resurgence of the domestic scene there.

England of course is a major outlier this is a country with around 120 full time clubs spread over 5 tiers and many more part time ones below that, which pay greater sums than 3 tier (even 2nd tier clubs) in other European leagues. Much of this is to do with heritage and actually creating the notion of professional football. That rich history and deep cultural embeddedness is what has allowed for structure to be so deep and why it has so many 'big clubs' that provide endless evolving stories that global audiences have become attached to.

Given that the Premier League voting structure it comes as no surprise that Richard Masters cannot see it's members wanting to reduce the number even though the big six would find it attractive.

The view of the international Confederations is that England most conform (though this tends to be about building a new income stream from a small number of Super Clubs rather than growing the actual game.

from The Independent

Premier League will not be cut to 18 clubs amid calendar tensions, says league chief
Ligue 1 reduced from 20 to 18 clubs ahead of the 2023/24 season

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 00367.html
https://archive.ph/kB4Xm

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 01, 2025 8:34 pm

A seemingly obvious piece of rule adjusting following recent high profile commissions and investigations against a number of Premier League clubs. Though it does leave me asking - why is it not the case that all the likely parties just not be told that they cannot delete/destroy anything - also why has this not been the practice for years already

from The Times

Warning to clubs as Premier League introduces new rules on investigations
new

Top-flight clubs told to preserve all relevant documents and information, such as WhatsApp messages, as soon as they are notified of suspected rule breaches

https://archive.ph/RFvls

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 04, 2025 1:55 pm

FIFA and UEFA have been increasingly wary of The European Courts of Justice having lost a number of cases over the years the most recent one, however, just may cause FIFA it's greatest problem/financial headache.

Who is Gianni Infantino going to get to pay for this one?

from The Guardian

Fifa facing multibillion-pound compensation claim from former players
Claim relates to finding of unlawful transfer regulations
Group says about 100,000 players seeking money

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... egulations
https://archive.ph/LtivV

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 04, 2025 6:42 pm

This weeks 'Business of Football' column for the Athletic was a bit of feast for this thread - whether it be the eternal optimism of a chance for another deal (mainly because he has fallen out with his current partners/dupes - take your own pick)) that personifies everything we know about John Textor though to the Premier League who have discovered that they lose even win they win in legal circles. It is worth considering if it cost that much to charge and prosecute Everton and Nottingham Forest just how much has the last 7 years of sparring with Manchester City cost them - let alone what will it cost them after the appeals.

From The Athletic

Business of Football: John Textor’s new grand plan, and Premier League made to fork out for lawyers
https://archive.ph/ZbIal

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 04, 2025 7:54 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 04, 2025 1:55 pm
FIFA and UEFA have been increasingly wary of The European Courts of Justice having lost a number of cases over the years the most recent one, however, just may cause FIFA it's greatest problem/financial headache.

Who is Gianni Infantino going to get to pay for this one?

from The Guardian

Fifa facing multibillion-pound compensation claim from former players
Claim relates to finding of unlawful transfer regulations
Group says about 100,000 players seeking money

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... egulations
https://archive.ph/LtivV
The Times is putting a different take on this story - which if I remember rightly - is how some portrayed the original case that FIFA lost

Radical legal case could let players terminate their own contracts for free
Class action lawsuit that could have a seismic impact on the future of football is seeking billions of pounds in compensation for group of ex-pros

https://archive.ph/jxEbr

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:30 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jul 15, 2025 1:08 pm
this feels topical - and a lesson that very few seem to realise, including the current owners at our club I would argue, who went against almost everything stated here when they arrived as even Sean Dyche acknowledged in the recent 'From the Bee Hole End' podcast

from the Gameplayer blog of Jordan Wise

What They Don’t Tell You About Owning a Football Club
The Hidden Playbook Behind Real Football Success

https://gameplayer.substack.com/p/what- ... out-owning
https://archive.ph/oLlTv
Not the same thing but there is a common theme in the underlying message - it makes me wonder why ALK took the direction it has, rather than develop the investment in sports tech media - I have an answer, but it wont be popular - they don't have the 'how to' experience/ability or the connections, particularly when without Dave Checketts

from The financial Times

George Pyne of Bruin Capital: How to make money in sport
The former president of IMG explains why capital now drives sport, the impact of LIV-PGA, and how his investment firm takes Europe-focused businesses into the US

https://archive.ph/xKqgD

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Aug 04, 2025 9:55 pm

For anyone wanting to understand the modern financing structures within the Premier League, this may not be a bad place to start

from our old friend Paul 'The Esk' Quinn

The Analysis Series:
An Analysis of Lenders, Debt, and Influence in English and European Football

https://theesk.org/2025/08/02/the-analy ... -football/
https://archive.ph/B2Egj
This user liked this post: The esk

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Aug 04, 2025 10:24 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 04, 2025 8:30 pm
Not the same thing but there is a common theme in the underlying message - it makes me wonder why ALK took the direction it has, rather than develop the investment in sports tech media - I have an answer, but it wont be popular - they don't have the 'how to' experience/ability or the connections, particularly when without Dave Checketts

from The financial Times

George Pyne of Bruin Capital: How to make money in sport
The former president of IMG explains why capital now drives sport, the impact of LIV-PGA, and how his investment firm takes Europe-focused businesses into the US

https://archive.ph/xKqgD
They don't have the money. People with money buy expertise.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Aug 04, 2025 10:25 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 04, 2025 9:55 pm
For anyone wanting to understand the modern financing structures within the Premier League, this may not be a bad place to start

from our old friend Paul 'The Esk' Quinn

The Analysis Series:
An Analysis of Lenders, Debt, and Influence in English and European Football

https://theesk.org/2025/08/02/the-analy ... -football/
https://archive.ph/B2Egj
This is a really good piece.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Mon Aug 04, 2025 10:36 pm

From the above article:

The strategies of PE firms and credit funds are designed to professionalize management, optimize revenue, and maximize enterprise value. Yet, the very value they seek to unlock is derived from the latter reality—the unwavering, often irrational, loyalty of fans who view their clubs not as financial assets but as pillars of their community and identity.

Almost word for word what I have written on here except I think another substantive reason that clubs like ours (in particular) have not yet come unstuck is because of the increasing disparity between the PL and the EFL, which means that increasingly clubs do not get financially relegated they simply spend a year or two in the Championship with parachute money and then return to the PL.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by The esk » Tue Aug 05, 2025 10:19 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 04, 2025 9:55 pm
For anyone wanting to understand the modern financing structures within the Premier League, this may not be a bad place to start

from our old friend Paul 'The Esk' Quinn

The Analysis Series:
An Analysis of Lenders, Debt, and Influence in English and European Football

https://theesk.org/2025/08/02/the-analy ... -football/
https://archive.ph/B2Egj
Thanks Chester, been a while since I last visited your boards. Wish you all the very best for the new season ahead!

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Big Vinny K » Tue Aug 05, 2025 11:39 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Mon Aug 04, 2025 10:36 pm
From the above article:

The strategies of PE firms and credit funds are designed to professionalize management, optimize revenue, and maximize enterprise value. Yet, the very value they seek to unlock is derived from the latter reality—the unwavering, often irrational, loyalty of fans who view their clubs not as financial assets but as pillars of their community and identity.

Almost word for word what I have written on here except I think another substantive reason that clubs like ours (in particular) have not yet come unstuck is because of the increasing disparity between the PL and the EFL, which means that increasingly clubs do not get financially relegated they simply spend a year or two in the Championship with parachute money and then return to the PL.
To a degree but then look where some of the clubs are that used to be called ‘yo yo’ clubs - Watford, West Brom, Norwich, Hull, Boro.

Did Leeds have parachute payments last year ? Genuine question as I’m not sure. We know that Sunderland didn’t and the season before neither did Ipswich.

I’d be very surprised if all 3 relegated teams went up this season and if for example Sheff United don’t go up they are back in the group with Watford, West Brom etc

Of course it gives you a massive advantage but if you look at the history of the league then with the majority of teams at some point they do not go back up within the their parachute period and when that stops you usually have a pretty big issue on your plate with your wage bill, servicing debt, paying for historical transfers etc all on a vastly reduced revenue number.

The tight rope is getting thinner and thinner because the one trend that is increasing is the promoted teams getting relegated ten season after more often because of the increasing gulf between the established Premier League teams and those clubs being promoted.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:15 pm

As ever with Simon Chadwick, this latest blog is thoughtful, insightful and for some rather dispiriting. Could we see something similar play out for our club in it's multi-club guise that Velocity are pursuing.

from the GeoSport blog on Substack

Darwin Nunez, Newcastle United and hierarchical power in interorganisational networks
There's speculation that Saudi Arabian interests are governing player transfers, but this should be no surprise to anyone

https://profchadwick.substack.com/p/dar ... united-and
https://archive.ph/oRd78

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 05, 2025 5:28 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 04, 2025 7:54 pm
The Times is putting a different take on this story - which if I remember rightly - is how some portrayed the original case that FIFA lost

Radical legal case could let players terminate their own contracts for free
Class action lawsuit that could have a seismic impact on the future of football is seeking billions of pounds in compensation for group of ex-pros

https://archive.ph/jxEbr
This story - rightly - is starting to gain traction in the media

here the BBC amongst other things gives some of the backstory - whixh, as always, is important to understand

Legal case a 'seismic confrontation' between players and Fifa
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 5prnpy142o

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Aug 05, 2025 11:23 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Aug 04, 2025 6:42 pm
This weeks 'Business of Football' column for the Athletic was a bit of feast for this thread - whether it be the eternal optimism of a chance for another deal (mainly because he has fallen out with his current partners/dupes - take your own pick)) that personifies everything we know about John Textor though to the Premier League who have discovered that they lose even win they win in legal circles. It is worth considering if it cost that much to charge and prosecute Everton and Nottingham Forest just how much has the last 7 years of sparring with Manchester City cost them - let alone what will it cost them after the appeals.

From The Athletic

Business of Football: John Textor’s new grand plan, and Premier League made to fork out for lawyers
https://archive.ph/ZbIal
It seems that there are others who were curious about the mounting legal bills at the Premier League - as this report in the Times clearly shows - I have to say that I strongly suspect the final totals will be much larger

Premier League fears over legal bills from Chelsea and Man City cases
Senior figures believe case for Manchester City’s 130 alleged breaches has cost both sides £200million over five years, with top lawyers charging thousands of pounds an hour

https://archive.ph/yLrU5

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 07, 2025 1:13 am

The FSA is essentially the body that provides connection, support, advice and occasionally co-ordination between the individual club ISA's including the new Burnley FC ISA. It has a significant lobbying capability and was called upon regularly to give input into the hearings around the Football Governance Bill.

It is a body that is growing in influence, especially politically - as is the whole ISA movement and we are starting to see fan groups becoming mush more organised and influential in the media and in some cases with the clubs the games authorities.

this report in the Guardian looks at a evert growing issue and what the FSA (and its members) are looking to achieve and do about it

Oasis-style ticketing and expendable fans: the battle to retain football’s soul
With protests planned for the start of the season, the FSA chair believes only fan consultation will help address grievances

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... tball-soul
https://archive.ph/bvaLz
https://archive.ph/bvaLz

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by The esk » Thu Aug 07, 2025 9:20 am

I hope you find this interesting and informative!

https://theesk.org/2025/08/07/the-analy ... regulator/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Juan Tanamera » Thu Aug 07, 2025 11:57 am

I know this question has done the rounds numerous times, but would we have received any parachute money upon our immediate return to the Premier League?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 07, 2025 1:37 pm

Juan Tanamera wrote:
Thu Aug 07, 2025 11:57 am
I know this question has done the rounds numerous times, but would we have received any parachute money upon our immediate return to the Premier League?
I am always astounded that Burnley fans (particularly on X) persist in spreading the nonsense that we get nothing if we bounce back up

We received circa £49m in Parachute Payments last season - if we had not been promoted we would have received circa £40m this season, because we did that £40m (along with the circa £18m that Leeds would have got if not promoted) will be distributed evenly between the 20 members of the Premier League this season.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 07, 2025 1:49 pm

The value of American sports franchises tend to astound us all, particularly as so few generate much in terms of profit - and we often wonder if it really is just scarcity that leads to these valuations - well the simple answer is no, what it can really be about is using tax breaks to effectively increase your asset portfolio

Here the Substack newsletter Huddle Up explains and also shows how Trump and his 'Big Beautiful Tax Bill' almost messed it all up - until the billionaires told him he had made an error.

The Billionaire Tax Trick Fueling Record-High Sports Valuations
President Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill almost single-handedly crushed sports valuations in America. Then, some of the country's most powerful team owners lobbied to stop it.

https://huddleup.substack.com/p/the-bil ... ck-fueling
https://archive.ph/w2H58

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Aug 07, 2025 3:22 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Tue Aug 05, 2025 11:39 am
To a degree but then look where some of the clubs are that used to be called ‘yo yo’ clubs - Watford, West Brom, Norwich, Hull, Boro.

Did Leeds have parachute payments last year ? Genuine question as I’m not sure. We know that Sunderland didn’t and the season before neither did Ipswich.

I’d be very surprised if all 3 relegated teams went up this season and if for example Sheff United don’t go up they are back in the group with Watford, West Brom etc

Of course it gives you a massive advantage but if you look at the history of the league then with the majority of teams at some point they do not go back up within the their parachute period and when that stops you usually have a pretty big issue on your plate with your wage bill, servicing debt, paying for historical transfers etc all on a vastly reduced revenue number.

The tight rope is getting thinner and thinner because the one trend that is increasing is the promoted teams getting relegated ten season after more often because of the increasing gulf between the established Premier League teams and those clubs being promoted.
I agree it's only to a degree but it's harder to calculate because teams that have been in the PL for more than one season do have 3 years worth of Parachute money, which still gives them a significant advantage.

Leeds, West Brom, Watford and Norwich all had parachute payments last year. Hull and Boro went down some time ago. The top 3 had parachute payments but obviously Sheff Utd fell at the final hurdle.

So, it could be a trend that becomes more defined as time goes on or a blip.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 07, 2025 4:08 pm

It is not just in Britain that owners ruin clubs and fans bemoan 'fit and proper' testing from league s in regards to owners. This from Philippe Auclair is a sorry tale about a club where the owner's previous record should have raised serious questions about allowing him to take-over

from the Guardian

How Boavista became the latest club to sink into crisis under Gérard López
The businessman is continuing his involvement in football despite a trail of misery, including at Mouscron and Bordeaux

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... rard-lopez
https://archive.ph/nqBvi

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 07, 2025 6:46 pm

The esk wrote:
Thu Aug 07, 2025 9:20 am
I hope you find this interesting and informative!

https://theesk.org/2025/08/07/the-analy ... regulator/
Another contribution from The Esk that is well worth your time and consideration - The weight of expectation upon the Football Governance Act - including from the Minister responsible for it's oversight - Lisa Nandy, is far too great given what the powers it offers. It is quite feasible for it to effectively prevent both Morecombe and Sheffield Wednesday from taking part in this season and thereby ceasing their operation as clubs in the leagues in which they are currently placed

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by KellyClaret » Thu Aug 07, 2025 6:46 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Aug 07, 2025 3:22 pm
I agree it's only to a degree but it's harder to calculate because teams that have been in the PL for more than one season do have 3 years worth of Parachute money, which still gives them a significant advantage.

Leeds, West Brom, Watford and Norwich all had parachute payments last year. Hull and Boro went down some time ago. The top 3 had parachute payments but obviously Sheff Utd fell at the final hurdle.

So, it could be a trend that becomes more defined as time goes on or a blip.
Don't think West Brom received any Parachute payments last season did they?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Aug 07, 2025 8:14 pm

KellyClaret wrote:
Thu Aug 07, 2025 6:46 pm
Don't think West Brom received any Parachute payments last season did they?
Yes my bad it finished the season before.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 08, 2025 12:08 am

After reading about the phantom availability of tickets for Burnley games on other threads here I have to say that I am somewhat surprised by this valuation estimate of ticket fraud in football - am I the only one who thinks it is low

from The Independent

£2.5million lost to football ticket fraudsters in last two seasons
Lloyds Bank estimates that there are likely to have been at least 12,000 victims since the start of the 2023/24

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 03991.html
https://archive.ph/mqCXZ

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 08, 2025 12:38 pm

An interesting piece today in the 'Inside Football' newsletter of The Independent's Miguel Delaney about the summer transfer window, PSR and in particular Chelsea - a club we are seemingly signing 3 players from this summer and no one would be surprised if there was a loan forthcoming too - it is something, selling unwanted players, that they appear to do better than anyone else.

Do you have any theories about how they can do this?

The piece ends with an interesting discussion that is just as relevant to us following the sale of James Trafford, one to consider particularly if Esteve leaves next summer as many are already anticipating

The art of the sale

This time of year always brings focus on buying players, but the other side of that, and successfully selling, is now becoming crucial. Also this week:

As details filtered through on Sunday that Chelsea were selling Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall to Everton for an initial £25m, one central figure at a major rival just puffed out of his cheeks: “How are they doing it?”

For his own club, it's an awkward question – why can’t they do deals in the same way? – but one way or another, the extent of Chelsea’s income from sales this summer has made an impression on many in football. The Stamford Bridge hierarchy has already recouped at least £150m in this window, with the potential of more to come.

And that’s with clubs knowing they needed to sell due to PSR pressures and the UEFA judgment, as well as the fact some of those they offloaded were unwanted – especially Joao Felix.

How Manchester United must look at that situation with envy. They have PSR pressures of their own, and it’s well known that they badly want to sell unwanted players. Then again, they’ve seen some of Chelsea’s approach up close. United discussed the idea of Alejandro Garnacho going to Stamford Bridge with Nicolas Jackson potentially going the other way, only for Chelsea to insist it was £80m for the Senegalese forward. Chelsea will probably end up getting it, too, given how this window has gone.

They have been very good at selling, a simple sentence that is actually a lot more significant than it sounds.

There’s a real skill to it, and a necessary one. While this time of year naturally sees most focus on the other side of transfers, and a club successfully buying a target they want, being able to offload when you want is now almost as important.

It’s actually increasingly how the market moves. In a world of PSR, where “headroom” is a watchword, and one Premier League chief executive admits you often have to sell before you want for those exact purposes, it is no longer good enough to just buy who you need and hope you can balance the squad later.

That’s now a market disadvantage. There has to be much more planning and strategy to it.

The big question, that many clubs are now thinking about a lot, is how. Most recent Champions League qualifiers – from Aston Villa through Arsenal, Manchester City and United – have to think about it a lot this summer.

It is, of course, little surprise that Brighton have become the masters of the sale, recouping well over £400m since 2021 but continuing to improve. Unlike their famous analytics-based recruitment model, however, selling is far from an exact science. It’s almost the opposite, involving more old-fashioned qualities. If the numbers can still tell you when is a good time to sell, actually completing moves is more dependent on relationships and contacts, of the ability to trade and barter in the more classic sense.

Chelsea employing two sporting directors is notable there, with both of them – Laurence Stewart and Paul Winstanley – having worked at “selling” clubs, one of them being Brighton. It helps that co-owners Todd Boehly and Behdad Eghbali have been so engaged in player trading, too. They're both said to love it.

This partly explains why Arsenal opted for Andrea Berta to succeed Edu as sporting director. The Italian has become well-versed in intense squad turnover in all sorts of situations at Atletico Madrid, and knows virtually everyone in football. It will be needed, as there isn't that much money in the market outside England, and most clubs want loans.

The art of the sale is not just about your ability to get deals done, though. It’s also about when you sell and why.

Brighton, unlike a lot of clubs, don’t get emotional about it. They don’t see selling star players as any reflection of their status. That’s why they have instead improved their status.

Brighton have their analytics set a value for a player and they stick to it, willingly agreeing to a deal when that value is met. Bournemouth have begun to follow that model, and are now insistent on seeing all recruitment in terms of who can fit their game model.

There’s also an extra value to that, since such clubs become more attractive to promising talent. They know they’ll be given a chance, both to play and move on.

Some in the game even believe that Crystal Palace “have to get better at selling” in order to show this. Such sentiments echo long-time criticisms of Spurs. There’s a belief that chairman Daniel Levy got too hung up on the idea that selling stars reflected negatively on the club. Spurs arguably failed to kick on because of that, especially in Mauricio Pochettino’s time.

All of which brings us to the saga of the summer: Alexander Isak. Newcastle United are feeling “bruised” because they felt another Champions League qualification had put them on the sort of level where they could keep the forward. Isak has instead agitated to leave.

There’s an argument that this need not be a problem at all. If you are a club on the up, it arguably makes even more sense to sell big and replenish. Juventus used to specialise in this during their peak, going back to Christian Vieri and even Zinedine Zidane.

The difference was that their structure ensured they already had a plan in place for what was next. They had considered all sides of such deals. Many Premier League clubs, including Newcastle, are belatedly realising just how important that is.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Big Vinny K » Fri Aug 08, 2025 1:30 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Aug 08, 2025 12:38 pm
An interesting piece today in the 'Inside Football' newsletter of The Independent's Miguel Delaney about the summer transfer window, PSR and in particular Chelsea - a club we are seemingly signing 3 players from this summer and no one would be surprised if there was a loan forthcoming too - it is something, selling unwanted players, that they appear to do better than anyone else.

Do you have any theories about how they can do this?

The piece ends with an interesting discussion that is just as relevant to us following the sale of James Trafford, one to consider particularly if Esteve leaves next summer as many are already anticipating

The art of the sale

This time of year always brings focus on buying players, but the other side of that, and successfully selling, is now becoming crucial. Also this week:

As details filtered through on Sunday that Chelsea were selling Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall to Everton for an initial £25m, one central figure at a major rival just puffed out of his cheeks: “How are they doing it?”

For his own club, it's an awkward question – why can’t they do deals in the same way? – but one way or another, the extent of Chelsea’s income from sales this summer has made an impression on many in football. The Stamford Bridge hierarchy has already recouped at least £150m in this window, with the potential of more to come.

And that’s with clubs knowing they needed to sell due to PSR pressures and the UEFA judgment, as well as the fact some of those they offloaded were unwanted – especially Joao Felix.

How Manchester United must look at that situation with envy. They have PSR pressures of their own, and it’s well known that they badly want to sell unwanted players. Then again, they’ve seen some of Chelsea’s approach up close. United discussed the idea of Alejandro Garnacho going to Stamford Bridge with Nicolas Jackson potentially going the other way, only for Chelsea to insist it was £80m for the Senegalese forward. Chelsea will probably end up getting it, too, given how this window has gone.

They have been very good at selling, a simple sentence that is actually a lot more significant than it sounds.

There’s a real skill to it, and a necessary one. While this time of year naturally sees most focus on the other side of transfers, and a club successfully buying a target they want, being able to offload when you want is now almost as important.

It’s actually increasingly how the market moves. In a world of PSR, where “headroom” is a watchword, and one Premier League chief executive admits you often have to sell before you want for those exact purposes, it is no longer good enough to just buy who you need and hope you can balance the squad later.

That’s now a market disadvantage. There has to be much more planning and strategy to it.

The big question, that many clubs are now thinking about a lot, is how. Most recent Champions League qualifiers – from Aston Villa through Arsenal, Manchester City and United – have to think about it a lot this summer.

It is, of course, little surprise that Brighton have become the masters of the sale, recouping well over £400m since 2021 but continuing to improve. Unlike their famous analytics-based recruitment model, however, selling is far from an exact science. It’s almost the opposite, involving more old-fashioned qualities. If the numbers can still tell you when is a good time to sell, actually completing moves is more dependent on relationships and contacts, of the ability to trade and barter in the more classic sense.

Chelsea employing two sporting directors is notable there, with both of them – Laurence Stewart and Paul Winstanley – having worked at “selling” clubs, one of them being Brighton. It helps that co-owners Todd Boehly and Behdad Eghbali have been so engaged in player trading, too. They're both said to love it.

This partly explains why Arsenal opted for Andrea Berta to succeed Edu as sporting director. The Italian has become well-versed in intense squad turnover in all sorts of situations at Atletico Madrid, and knows virtually everyone in football. It will be needed, as there isn't that much money in the market outside England, and most clubs want loans.

The art of the sale is not just about your ability to get deals done, though. It’s also about when you sell and why.

Brighton, unlike a lot of clubs, don’t get emotional about it. They don’t see selling star players as any reflection of their status. That’s why they have instead improved their status.

Brighton have their analytics set a value for a player and they stick to it, willingly agreeing to a deal when that value is met. Bournemouth have begun to follow that model, and are now insistent on seeing all recruitment in terms of who can fit their game model.

There’s also an extra value to that, since such clubs become more attractive to promising talent. They know they’ll be given a chance, both to play and move on.

Some in the game even believe that Crystal Palace “have to get better at selling” in order to show this. Such sentiments echo long-time criticisms of Spurs. There’s a belief that chairman Daniel Levy got too hung up on the idea that selling stars reflected negatively on the club. Spurs arguably failed to kick on because of that, especially in Mauricio Pochettino’s time.

All of which brings us to the saga of the summer: Alexander Isak. Newcastle United are feeling “bruised” because they felt another Champions League qualification had put them on the sort of level where they could keep the forward. Isak has instead agitated to leave.

There’s an argument that this need not be a problem at all. If you are a club on the up, it arguably makes even more sense to sell big and replenish. Juventus used to specialise in this during their peak, going back to Christian Vieri and even Zinedine Zidane.

The difference was that their structure ensured they already had a plan in place for what was next. They had considered all sides of such deals. Many Premier League clubs, including Newcastle, are belatedly realising just how important that is.
Interesting article but a bit one sided given there’s not much if any reference to the amount they have spent on players too. Surely in the last 2 or 3 years they have spent more than any other club in the world and for many years now have had pretty much the biggest squad in the world too. Wasn’t it 60 plus players on their books ?

What they also do is spend a lot of money on getting the best youngsters in the world at Chelsea. Again this has been happening for a long time. Was it around 10 years ago we got Chalobah on loan from them and he was on a reported £30k a week as an 18 year old.

Whilst we hear in general media a lot of the time about those players who have come through their ranks who have been sold how many of these expensive young investments are there who don’t get sold and we don’t see reports on ?

The world they operate in is complete basket case stuff - whether it’s a success financially for the owners is hard to know without having a deep delve into their finances. But at a glance given how much money they have put into the club they are going to need a few years of success on and off the field to get back any return on their massive outlay.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:08 pm

Indeed, over £1.5 Billion spent on incomings since the £2.5 Billion takeover with annual amotisation at well over £200m

Out of curiosity, am i right in thinking that those oft mentioned 8 year deals can work like this in football's 5 year max amortisation world -

incoming player cost £50m
1st year Amortisation £50m / 5 = £10m
2nd year Amortisation (£50m - £10m) / 5 = £8m
3rd year Amortisation (£40m - £8m) / 5 = £6.4m
4th year Amortisation (£32m - £6.4m) / 5 = £5.12m
then £5.12m for rest of contract assuming no change in contract length or additional agent costs

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Big Vinny K » Fri Aug 08, 2025 10:30 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:08 pm
Indeed, over £1.5 Billion spent on incomings since the £2.5 Billion takeover with annual amotisation at well over £200m

Out of curiosity, am i right in thinking that those oft mentioned 8 year deals can work like this in football's 5 year max amortisation world -

incoming player cost £50m
1st year Amortisation £50m / 5 = £10m
2nd year Amortisation (£50m - £10m) / 5 = £8m
3rd year Amortisation (£40m - £8m) / 5 = £6.4m
4th year Amortisation (£32m - £6.4m) / 5 = £5.12m
then £5.12m for rest of contract assuming no change in contract length or additional agent costs
Not sure about that - I thought the new 5 year rule meant that the cost had to be amortised over the 5 year period and not beyond it…..so the 8 year contracts are no longer beneficial.

The rule was not backdated and most of Chelsea’s 8 year contracts were pre the rule change so they continue to be allowed to be amortised over 8 years.

Should mean we don’t see these ridiculously length contracts anymore.

Mudryk actually signed an eight and half year deal - initial transfer fee of around £70m but with add ons rising to nearly £90m. So that was pre the new 5 year rule so you could say Chelsea “benefited”. But how exactly they have benefited ? They are paying a player for nearly 9 years who is nowhere near the team !! With wages, signing on fees, and the transfer fee this will be between £150m and £200m spent on a player who has hardly played for them. That has got to be up there with the most expensive mistake in history of football - but yeh they get to spread the pain over 9 years instead of 5 !!!

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Big Vinny K » Sat Aug 09, 2025 12:08 pm

And the BCC article which references us buying Broja and taking the sales from their academy in last 3 years to £250m is all well and good if you ignore the point that they have lost most of this on buying Murdyk !!

Not sure this is any kind of brilliant revolutionary academy or strategy have developed. Feels a lot like the Harry Redknapp method of buying players….if you buy enough of them then at some point a couple of them are going to work out well !! If Chelsea and City are hoovering a lot of the worlds best young talents by paying silly amounts for kids many of which fall by the wayside then of course you are going to get successes.

£250m sales does not equate to £250m profit either - the amount they have to pay to get these kids and families over here, ridiculous salaries with many of them never kicking a ball for Chelsea all needs to be taken into account

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Aug 09, 2025 6:12 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Aug 05, 2025 5:28 pm
This story - rightly - is starting to gain traction in the media

here the BBC amongst other things gives some of the backstory - whixh, as always, is important to understand

Legal case a 'seismic confrontation' between players and Fifa
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 5prnpy142o
Ostensibly, this piece in the Guardian is about the above, but there is much more than that because it encompasses FIFA's ongoing changes (without consultation) with the key enablers - the players. At it's heart this article clearly outlines that Gianni Infantino has attempted to take on the lessons from those leaders he has sought to get close to. The problem he has is that they are dictators of individual states and none of them provide the players that his confederation relies so heavily on to actually garner it's income. It could also be described as FIFA's ongoing war with the European hegemony in football - particularly its self perpetuating power power in finance driven by it's leagues and clubs that attracts players and audiences from around the world.

Could latest seismic legal challenge leave Fifa wobbling on its perch?
Football’s world governing body is facing a growing number of issues, not least a new class action from the Netherlands

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -its-perch
https://archive.ph/w05H0

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Aug 10, 2025 1:16 am

this is basically where I have been with the ALK/VSL/Velocity takeover of Burnley since the beginning - where is the growth - this coming season may (at last) see Burnley set a new turnover record - last set in 2018-19 ithe numbers will benefit from a record matchday receipts and probably historically strong/consistent retail receipts,; Premier League Central payments should reflect much larger international and commercial revenues (though there is the ongoing fear of massive legal fees impacting that). The real issue is that of commercial revenues - it is time for them to catch up and overtake those of 2017/18 and 2018/19, after all that is an area that Alan Pace felt (with what transpired to be false confidence) could be improved in the early days of January 2021, weeks before he fell out with many local sponsors.

from The Financial Times

What second-tier football clubs and small-cap stocks have in common
Not every small cap is a giant in waiting — some have a limited total addressable market
https://archive.ph/vtwsc

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Aug 10, 2025 1:26 am

Some of you may have picked up on the BBC's report about Chelsea earning £250m in the past few seasons from the sale of Academy graduates - some £30m - £35m of which is attributed to Burnley this summer - though it appears the BBC are trying to make it 3 players and £55m

Chelsea's £250m of academy sales in three years
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 0d2xerz1lo

but how does that relate to academies as a whole and just as importantly how have Academies performed on metrics other than financial, the ones that fans and young players and their families care about - fortunately we have our friend Paul 'The Esk' Quinn to provide an overview - he has been very busy of late it would seem

The Analysis Series: Premier League Academy Productivity and Profitability (2015-2025)
https://theesk.org/2025/08/09/the-analy ... 2015-2025/
https://archive.ph/kSdDe

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 13, 2025 3:42 pm

This will no doubt please some, and should benefit from having a shadow regulator in already in place - but there are still a number of things to sort out - including whether David Kogan will actually become the Chair of the Regulator for Football. You do wonder if this could be a bit of a hospital pass given the high profile cases of Sheffield Wednesday and Morecambe

from The Athletic

Independent English football regulator fast-tracked for November start by UK government
https://archive.ph/KaAHR

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 13, 2025 5:08 pm

The Esk continues his very productive summer with The Analysis Series - the subject of this one is one of the probably one of the most divisive (and i believe misunderstood) issues in English Football

The Analysis Series: Yo-yos and Parachutes; Premier League Relegation, Subsequent Performance, and Financial Impact (2010-2024)
https://theesk.org/2025/08/12/the-analy ... 2010-2024/
https://archive.ph/ShoON

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 13, 2025 11:39 pm

I am far from being fully convinced that this is completely true - though it is very much a broadcasters argument to want to be able to show everything and probably without paying much more unless they really do believe in the argument - that would be the true test of their faith in it given that the last four cycles has seen no increase in domestic rights values even though much more has been given in return

from The Times

Ending 3pm blackout will help combat piracy, says Sky Sports
Measure was introduced to protect attendances and amateur football but broadcaster says it encourages illegal streaming of Premier Leagues games

https://archive.ph/I4m09

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 14, 2025 2:08 am

It is interesting that certain sections of the media are only just getting this though into their heads now - we know it has been a long running issue that has occupied this thread for several years now

from The Telegraph

The Premier League clubs waging war on season-ticket holders
Revenue-hungry top-flight clubs accused of forcing out loyal fans in favour of high-spending ‘football tourists’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... t-holders/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 14, 2025 1:26 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 11, 2025 2:57 pm
Depending on where you are in the world your view as to the merit/success of FIFA's Club World Cup - though no one is surprised to hear that Gianni Infantino believes it is a huge success.

It is perhaps more important to consider what is to follow, some of which I have been trailing for several years. Here Miguel Delaney runs though a list of ideas/plans that appear almost all intent on breaking Europe's very long standing traditions and stranglehold on the games riches.

from the Independent

What comes next? Inside Fifa’s grand plan after Club World Cup
Fifa president Gianni Infantino has been delighted with how the revamped Club World Cup has gone, writes Miguel Delaney, but he has no intention of stopping there, with even bigger plans already afoot

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 87050.html
https://archive.ph/xHttO
It is well known that journalists save stories for timely opportunities - the start of a Premier League season gives MAtt Slater to bring out this piece, the contents of which we are all aware of, which is essentially just a reframing in an effort to get people to notice

from The Athletic

Enjoy the new Premier League season, there might not be many more like it
https://archive.ph/Tf5rZ

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Aug 14, 2025 1:51 pm

Martin Samuel picks holes (as is his want) in UEGA's treatment of multi-club groups in it's competitions - there are a number of seemingly reasonable points being made here - though the fundamental issue of UEFA being hugely reliant on big clubs and wanting more of them for it's revenues and effectively allowing their owners to do what they want is not discussed

from The Times

Why? The question Uefa has never answered about Palace and Lyon
What is the problem with Crystal Palace competing in the same competition as another club where John Textor also had an interest?

https://archive.ph/kxCUc

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Aug 15, 2025 3:15 pm

This is essentially a legal argument, most pertinently it neglects to mention that the MLS had opposed league matches from other countries being played on US soil - that is why Relevent went to court (with several cases) in the US so they could promote such games. It also neglects to mention that FIFA appeared in court to support the MLS stance. That knowledge makes the argument somewhat weasely and revisionist.

from The Athletic

A La Liga game in Miami is a grim prospect, but it’s not FIFA’s job to stop it
https://archive.ph/WvXti

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Aug 15, 2025 4:13 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Aug 14, 2025 1:51 pm
Martin Samuel picks holes (as is his want) in UEGA's treatment of multi-club groups in it's competitions - there are a number of seemingly reasonable points being made here - though the fundamental issue of UEFA being hugely reliant on big clubs and wanting more of them for it's revenues and effectively allowing their owners to do what they want is not discussed

from The Times

Why? The question Uefa has never answered about Palace and Lyon
What is the problem with Crystal Palace competing in the same competition as another club where John Textor also had an interest?

https://archive.ph/kxCUc
I've never had much time for Martin Samuel I never think his points make much sense.

Clearly, integrity of the competition is the key issue here. His rather rambly suggestion that somehow it's all too difficult makes no sense given the extent of corruption that has affected Serie A for a start...

It's as though fraud and malign influence doesn't exist in society when it clearly does. It's hard but it happens.

The issue with the group stages he writes off with the view 'If clubs from the same country can be kept apart in the league-stage draw, surely multi-ownership clubs can too?' .

So, now we are making rules for multi-ownership clubs but what if the model becomes endemic surely that could affect the integrity of the competition.

His lame rationales come thick and fast..

Field a weakened team? Already happens who cares....

Transfers? Uefa appoint a far fee tribunal to judge; whats the issue?

He then mentions individuals like Steve Parrish but we all know where this is heading towards faceless PE companies who appoint those who comply and lose those who don't.

But the question is: why is he so supportive of multi club ownership what does it do for the ordinary fan or football itself?

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