Everton v Leeds

[Tall Paul]

If that was a pen why was Tarks not booked ?

Booked for what offence?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Everton are sh!te.

It's beyond me how they stay up every season.

The PL sort them out, as they did the season we went down instead of them.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Penalty.

A handball offence only occurs if the player deliberately moves their hand/arm towards the ball or if the arm’s position makes the body unnaturally bigger in that situation

Tarks leant to his left to make deliberate contact with the ball.

Deliberate contact with his torso not his hand

[Carport]

The refs are doing what they are told to. It is big for sky and the media if Leeds win. They won’t shut up about it. Refs are told who to favour and it is clear they were told to favour leeds. Next week they will be told to favour everton as it makes a good story if they win their first game at their new stadium. Football is not a sport anymore at the top level, it is entertainment.
Think of wrestling. That is what football is now at the top level.

Any evidence or is this just a matter of opinion?

[Tall Paul]

The PL sort them out, as they did the season we went down instead of them.

Didn't sort them out tonight did they?

[Carport]

Deliberate contact with his torso not his hand

Any part of the arm below the armpit is judged ‘handball’

[Hedontplayforyou]

Yes I know, but he didn’t intentionally put that on the way or move it toward the ball

[Claretnick]

I hope I’m wrong, and I’m sure someone will hurl insults my way for this, but I seriously worry about what will happen to us this season. Leeds and Sunderland look to have signed more quality whilst we’ve got around 40 players who are all on a similar level - not quite good enough for the league we’re in. The atmospheres at both grounds are far beyond what our fans create at the Turf.

As I said, I pray I’m wrong.

Do you go on the Turf?
If you do, what do you do to help create a hostile atmosphere or are you always giving off negative vibes, like you are now?

[Clarky]

Just watched the after final whistle scenes...have DL won the league ....have slept for 9 months or summat?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Didn't sort them out tonight did they?

Yes my mistake, they have of course been relegated tonight.

[warksclaret]

I have watched most games this week-end and get a sense of what the PL is going to throw up this season. Its going to be a long hard one, but need to stay positive and support the club, the manager , and the players (and I mean ALL of them on the pitch). If we can build on the 60 or so minutes of the weekend when we took the game to Spurs, I will be happy. Having been at Spurs on Saturday I am confident they would have beaten Leeds tonight and definitely Everton

[ksrclaret]

Do you go on the Turf?
If you do, what do you do to help create a hostile atmosphere or are you always giving off negative vibes, like you are now?

I'm sure you thought this was a clever post, but it's so poorly conceived that it leads me to think that you can't be making a serious point.

[boyyanno]

Penalty.

A handball offence only occurs if the player deliberately moves their hand/arm towards the ball or if the arm’s position makes the body unnaturally bigger in that situation

Tarks leant to his left to make deliberate contact with the ball.

I disagree with that analysis.

He actually looks like he's trying to get his body in the way of the shot which is why his whole body is moving towards the ball, his arm is actually quite disciplined and he starts moving it back behind him if anything.

I can understand why it's been given but it's tough for me because he has to try and block the shot.

[beddie]

I hope I’m wrong, and I’m sure someone will hurl insults my way for this, but I seriously worry about what will happen to us this season. Leeds and Sunderland look to have signed more quality whilst we’ve got around 40 players who are all on a similar level - not quite good enough for the league we’re in. The atmospheres at both grounds are far beyond what our fans create at the Turf.

As I said, I pray I’m wrong.

We all knew from winning promotion that this season was going to be another tough one. My view is that we still need 3 quality players, whether we can get them or not is probably dependant on more players leaving. I agree that of the three promoted clubs we are the weakest, mainly because we were overloaded with Kompany players. He’s a tough job ahead of him has Scott but let’s back him and if we don’t stay up stick with him for the future, he’s a very intelligent young man with tremendous football knowledge and we need to keep him whatever happens.

[Spijed]

I hope I’m wrong, and I’m sure someone will hurl insults my way for this, but I seriously worry about what will happen to us this season. Leeds and Sunderland look to have signed more quality whilst we’ve got around 40 players who are all on a similar level - not quite good enough for the league we’re in. The atmospheres at both grounds are far beyond what our fans create at the Turf.

As I said, I pray I’m wrong.

Leeds created nothing against a dire Everton side. Where was the quality on show for Leeds tonight?

[Jakubclaret]

I hope I’m wrong, and I’m sure someone will hurl insults my way for this, but I seriously worry about what will happen to us this season. Leeds and Sunderland look to have signed more quality whilst we’ve got around 40 players who are all on a similar level - not quite good enough for the league we’re in. The atmospheres at both grounds are far beyond what our fans create at the Turf.

As I said, I pray I’m wrong.

Give your head a wobble fella you'd be the last person I'd want in the trenches.

[ksrclaret]

Leeds created nothing against a dire Everton side. Where was the quality on show for Leeds tonight?

Everton are not a dire side. They're an established Premier League team. I don't even think you believe what you've written.

[Holmechapel]

Give your head a wobble fella you'd be the last person I'd want in the trenches.

Wouldn’t mention the trenches as certain people start getting rather tetchy if war is mentioned

[Spijed]

Everton are not a dire side. They're an established Premier League team. I don't even think you believe what you've written.

But they were poor tonight. And for all the players they've bought Pickford didn't have to make any hard saves.

[ksrclaret]

Wouldn’t mention the trenches as certain people start getting rather tetchy if war is mentioned

It's ok, Jakub is a troll of this message board. He posts to get reactions. It's a full-time job of his.

[claretlegend]

I really really really hate Leeds and I really really really really hate it when Leeds win with a scabby refereeing decision!

[Vegas Claret]

I'd say this is spot on

[Holmechapel]

I'd say this is spot on

I think what swayed VAR was Tarks actually lent into the ball even though he kept his arm tucked in.

[jrgbfc]

I agree with Neville and Carragher, think he knows what he's doing there.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I disagree with that analysis.

He actually looks like he's trying to get his body in the way of the shot which is why his whole body is moving towards the ball, his arm is actually quite disciplined and he starts moving it back behind him if anything.

I can understand why it's been given but it's tough for me because he has to try and block the shot.

I agree with you here because his body has not been made “unnaturally bigger”. The arm has to go somewhere and it was tucked as close to the body as it could be. What is he meant to do, not lean into it sideways and just let it go in?

What is also interesting is that Kavanagh made the decision from his earpiece - somebody told him to give it, but given Tarky’s angle, I don’t see how that person could have had a good view. The Lino was side-on and couldn’t tell if the arm moved away from the body.

p.s. how many games did we go without a penalty in the PL, dodgy or not?

[Claretnick]

I'm sure you thought this was a clever post, but it's so poorly conceived that it leads me to think that you can't be making a serious point.

I wasn't trying to be clever and I apologise if that's what you thought. I was asking what effort do you make to help create a hostile positive atmosphere on the Turf. I only know from my days on the Longside that Sunderland would be apprehensive about coming to us on Saturday. We had our moaners and boo boys for sure, even players like Nulty, Collins and Casper in that wonderful team of the 70's used to get the moans and groans. However right now we need the whole crowd sticking together, despite the upheavals, and encouraging the team for 3 points on Saturday. I just think sometimes we get bogged down with over thinking and analysing every tactic too much. Oh well UTC....

[Carport]

The rules are not crystal clear but I’m not sure that in this case that the player needs to have made his body unnaturally bigger for it to be a penalty. He only needs to have moved his arm towards the ball deliberately which he seems to have done by leaning in. The rule needs to be clearer.

[Quicknick]

If Leeds can beat Everton, so can we.

[ksrclaret]

I wasn't trying to be clever and I apologise if that's what you thought. I was asking what effort do you make to help create a hostile positive atmosphere on the Turf. I only know from my days on the Longside that Sunderland would be apprehensive about coming to us on Saturday. We had our moaners and boo boys for sure, even players like Nulty, Collins and Casper in that wonderful team of the 70's used to get the moans and groans. However right now we need the whole crowd sticking together, despite the upheavals, and encouraging the team for 3 points on Saturday. I just think sometimes we get bogged down with over thinking and analysing every tactic too much. Oh well UTC....

I do my best to join in with the singing and chanting, but I'm only one person. There's something about the other two grounds that generates better atmospheres (when things are going well). I'm not in any way having a go at the Burnley fans here, of which I'm one. It's just one of those things.

[Claretnick]

I do my best to join in with the singing and chanting, but I'm only one person. There's something about the other two grounds that generates better atmospheres (when things are going well). I'm not in any way having a go at the Burnley fans here, of which I'm one. It's just one of those things.

Okay lets hope we and 18k other Clarets can sing the team to victory On Saturday

[Rileybobs]

I agree with you here because his body has not been made “unnaturally bigger”. The arm has to go somewhere and it was tucked as close to the body as it could be. What is he meant to do, not lean into it sideways and just let it go in?

Erm, yes. You've just justified the referee's decision, because Tarkowski moved his arm towards the ball. It's a scabby decision for Leeds but Tarkowski leaned towards the ball which resulted in him blocking the shot with his arm. It's a penalty and I bet you'd be convinced so too if it was given to us.

[dvalley69]

Give your head a wobble fella you'd be the last person I'd want in the trenches.

Who gives an F.. we're not going to war!

[dvalley69]

The rules are not crystal clear but I’m not sure that in this case that the player needs to have made his body unnaturally bigger for it to be a penalty. He only needs to have moved his arm towards the ball deliberately which he seems to have done by leaning in. The rule needs to be clearer.

But surely he's allowed to lean in in the hope it hits his chest and therefore sparing his keeper to make a save?

[Elizabeth]

Which is what he did but unfortunately for him and Everton it hit his arm. For me it's either chest or penalty.

[FCBurnley]

Booked for what offence?

Deliberate handball otherwise it was not a pen

[Darnhill Claret]

The most obvious problem we have when comparing ourselves (fans) with Leeds and Sunderland are the numbers.
Sunderland 51,000
Leeds 44,000
Burnley 21,900

I accept those figures might be out of date, but my point remains the same.

[Darnhill Claret]

You don't have to be booked for deliberate handball. A free-kick/penalty is often deemed enough. An offence on the half way line is often penalised without a card.

[dvalley69]

Which is what he did but unfortunately for him and Everton it hit his arm. For me it's either chest or penalty.

Then the state of the game is seriously messed up if a defender can't move their body to block a deflected shot in case the ball hits an arm that is almost behind his back!!

[Elizabeth]

Then the state of the game is seriously messed up if a defender can't move their body to block a deflected shot in case the ball hits an arm that is almost behind his back!!

Yes, I would definitely vote for going back to the days when deliberate handball was so much more clearer . This microscopic approach has gone beyond a joke. I have to admit I get sucked into it like most

[helmclaret]

Absolutely shocking game of football. However, it’s given me some hope of staying up.

[RVclaret]

Not a penalty for me. He didn't move his arm towards the ball. He moved his body to block the ball..the arm is part of the body and, so long as within a natural position (it was literally glued to his side) then it should not be a punishable offence.

[Tall Paul]

Deliberate handball otherwise it was not a pen

Handball isn't a yellow card offence.

[quoonbeatz]

If there’s one thing ruining football, it’s refereeing standards. Only been the opening weekend and it’s been a shocker for them.

[Carport]

Not a penalty for me. He didn't move his arm towards the ball. He moved his body to block the ball..the arm is part of the body and, so long as within a natural position (it was literally glued to his side) then it should not be a punishable offence.

Interesting to see what Chat GPT makes of it. My question:

If a defender keeps their arm tight to their torso but moves their whole body (including that arm that stays pinned to the torso throughout) towards the ball in the hope of blocking it with their body and not with their arm but the ball that has travelled a distance from the strikers foot hits the upper arm below the arm pit is it or is it not a penalty

Answer

Good scenario — this is the kind of situation referees (and VAR) are briefed on specifically. Let’s walk it through against Law 12 (Handball):

⸻

Key parts of your description
• Defender’s arm is tight to the torso the whole time.
• Defender moves body towards the ball to block.
• Ball travels from striker’s foot (not point-blank, so some distance).
• Ball hits upper arm, just below the armpit.

⸻

How referees judge it
1. Position of the arm
• If the arm is tight against the body, it is generally considered a natural position.
• The Laws say it’s not normally a handball if the ball hits an arm/hand that’s close to the body and consistent with normal movement.
2. Unnaturally bigger?
• Did the arm make the body unnaturally bigger?
• In this case, no — because it stayed pinned to the torso.
3. Deliberate handball?
• There was no movement of the arm towards the ball, only of the whole body.
• Intention was to block with torso, not arm.
4. Impact location
• Contact “just below the armpit” can be tricky. IFAB guidance states that the arm is considered to start at the bottom of the armpit.
• If the ball hit above that line → chest/shoulder, not handball.
• If it hit below → it is part of the arm, but with arm tight to body, it usually isn’t penalised.

⸻

Likely Decision

Not a penalty.
Because:
• Arm was tight to the body (natural).
• No deliberate arm-to-ball movement.
• Defender did not make body unnaturally bigger.
• Even though the ball hit the arm, referees are told not to penalise when the arm is held against the torso.

⸻

Caveat: If the referee judged that the defender moved their body specifically to ensure the ball hit the arm (rather than chest), they might call it deliberate. But under current IFAB guidance (2025), that’s unlikely unless it looked clearly intentional.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Joke of a decision, heard Moyes say that the ref told him it wasn't his decision to award it.

You would think he himself would then think maybe I should look at it myself instead of using the PMM (protect my mate) system currently in place.

[Targetman]

If Leeds can beat Everton, so can we.

I stand to be corrected but I think we have beaten Everton more times than any other Premier League team.

[Tall Paul]

I stand to be corrected but I think we have beaten Everton more times than any other Premier League team.

I doubt that. Liverpool, for example, have beaten them loads of times.

[Hibsclaret]

I have no issue with the decision as Tarky clearly knows what he’s doing. However, given he is partially unsighted, it’s been deflected and the hand is by his side I’m really looking forward to the kind of inconsistency we are going to see this season with this type of decision. I’m guessing some clubs will be favoured more than others.

[Targetman]

I doubt that. Liverpool, for example, have beaten them loads of times.

You seem to have mis-understood??

We have beaten Everton more times than we have beaten any other Premier League teams!

[Tall Paul]

You seem to have mis-understood??

We have beaten Everton more times than we have beaten any other Premier League teams!

I knew what you meant, I was being a smart-arse