oldie squad photo help needed

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oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 12:55 pm

Just cataloguing some old squad photos and need help.
Can anybody put a season to this? My only clue is that Arthur Woodruff is on and he signed in 1936. No Jimmy Strong, Alan Brown or Harry Potts so I'm thinking pre-war. Any player IDs would be a bonus.
IMG_3104.JPG
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This one i haven't got a clue if it is even a Burnley team picture. Only remember that I downloaded it as a Burnley photo.
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by gawthorpe_view » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:13 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 12:55 pm
Just cataloguing some old squad photos and need help.
Can anybody put a season to this? My only clue is that Arthur Woodruff is on and he signed in 1936. No Jimmy Strong, Alan Brown or Harry Potts so I'm thinking pre-war. Any player IDs would be a bonus.
IMG_3104.JPG
.
This one i haven't got a clue if it is even a Burnley team picture. Only remember that I downloaded it as a Burnley photo.
IMG_4302.JPG
The bottom photo must have been taken between 1935 and 1940 when we changed to playing in white shirts and black shorts.
In the top photo, right hand side in the suit is, I think, Frank Hill who was manager from 1948 to 1954.
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by jollyjack » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:19 pm

bottom photo front row middle - Gomer Pyle..

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:24 pm

jollyjack wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:19 pm
bottom photo front row middle - Gomer Pyle..
You are naughty.

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:28 pm

I might be wrong because I didn't know him when he was young but is the player top left possibly George Bray?

Trainer on right, next to last player, could be Ray Bennion.

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:28 pm

gawthorpe_view wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:13 pm
The bottom photo must have been taken between 1935 and 1940 when we changed to playing in white shirts and black shorts.
In the top photo, right hand side in the suit is, I think, Frank Hill who was manager from 1948 to 1954.
You are correct on Frank Hill which puts it after Brown, Potts but before Adamson, Jimmy Mac. Cheers
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:34 pm

Top pic, second player from left on top row - potentially Reg Kirkham

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Buxtonclaret » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:34 pm

Great old photos those, TT. 8-)

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:36 pm

That kit suggests up to 1951
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:37 pm

Wondering if bottom right is Les Shannon and 2nd left bottom is Albert Cheesebrough?

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Holmechapel » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:40 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:28 pm
I might be wrong because I didn't know him when he was young but is the player top left possibly George Bray?

Trainer on right, next to last player, could be Ray Bennion.
Next to Jack Butterfield and Jimmy Strong,or is that Les Shannon?
Last edited by Holmechapel on Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:40 pm

Buxtonclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:34 pm
Great old photos those, TT. 8-)
I’ve loads of them Buxton. Most saved from the squad photo thread on here and many others from the web. Spent the morning putting them in 10 year folders.
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Rowls » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:40 pm

Top photo compared to "historic kits" site suggest 1946-51.

There are a number of variants in the shirts and socks suggesting later than 46 at a minimum.

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Rowls » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:42 pm

Bottom photo with white kit matches 1936-40
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Harrythomsonscap » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:44 pm

Top Photo, front row bottom left is my Father GordonHaigh he signed for Burnley in 1946 till 1950. Top right is Jack Butterfield ( he suffered a badly broken leg and had to retire)
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Harrythomsonscap » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:47 pm

Top Photo, front row bottom left is my Father GordonHaigh he signed for Burnley in 1946 till 1950. Top right is Jack Butterfield ( he suffered a badly broken leg and had to retire)

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:50 pm

Holmechapel wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:40 pm
Next to Jack Butterfield and Jimmy Strong,or is that Les Shannon?
I'm sure that's not Jimmy Strong

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:09 pm

Identified two in lower photo. Left of the keeper is Jimmy Stein, signed from Everton he played both wings. Right of the skipper is Charlie Fletcher, a left winger. They were only in the same squads for two seasons, 36-37 & 37-38. I’ll label it as that. Wish I knew what the trophy is? We didn’t win the Lancs. Senior Cup in either of them years.
Upper one to go.

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Mayoclaret » Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:21 pm

Think the trophy is the Lancashire FA Junior Shield - picture of it in The Clarets Chronicles page 232
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by mdd2 » Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:25 pm

The first Pic with Frank Hill (manager 48-54) maybe around 1949 because Jack Butterfield, right of Woodruff (left in 1952) was only on the Burnley books from 1946 and became club scout in Nov 1949 but the mystery to me about that picture is no Jimmy Strong (1946-53), Harold Mather (1939-55), Jackie Chew (1945-54), Bill Holden wasnt signed until November 1949.
I think 4th bottom left Reg Attwell
Whatever season that picture is, there are so many first team players as fas as I can tell not on the picture.
Could it be a reserve team picture?

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by mdd2 » Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:30 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 1:50 pm
I'm sure that's not Jimmy Strong
Les not on the pic either and like Holden didnt sign until Nov 49 and pretty sure Jack Butterfield's presence on that pic puts it summer of 1949 at the latest. So my guess is sometime between September 1948 and summer 1949.
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:38 pm

I mentioned Jimmy Stein above I’ve just read that on retirement he became our Scotland scout and brought Andy Lochhead, Willie Morgan and Harry Thomson to the club. We owe him for them three alone.

In the 30s period mentioned we only had two keepers Hetherington who was followed by Adams. Neither of them look like the keeper in the pictue.
After Mayoclarets comment above that the trophy is the Lancs Junior Shield I wonder if the team is predominantly reserves?

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:46 pm

The photo Mayoclaret mentioned appears in the Claret Chronicles for season 42-43, a war-time season with a lot of scratch sides. In the photo, below, it is the same keeper.
IMG_5010.jpeg
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:51 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:30 pm
Les not on the pic either and like Holden didnt sign until Nov 49 and pretty sure Jack Butterfield's presence on that pic puts it summer of 1949 at the latest. So my guess is sometime between September 1948 and summer 1949.
I'm wondering if it is a reserve team picture

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by mdd2 » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:04 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:51 pm
I'm wondering if it is a reserve team picture
my thoughts too, posted above. We know the period to within a couple of years and there are so many players I recall not on the picture the obvious being Jimmy Strong the GK. So is that GK Joe McNulty who as a very young claret (under 10) still thought he was poor in the odd game i saw him play. Chew Morris Attwell, Mather Strong and Tommy Cummings all missing may make that pic largely of reserve team players.

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:08 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:04 pm
my thoughts too, posted above. We know the period to within a couple of years and there are so many players I recall not on the picture the obvious being Jimmy Strong the GK. So is that GK Joe McNulty who as a very young claret (under 10) still thought he was poor in the odd game i saw him play. Chew Morris Attwell, Mather Strong and Tommy Cummings all missing may make that pic largely of reserve team players.
I wouldn't know what Joe McNulty looked like but I'm assuming it's him

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by gawthorpe_view » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:10 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:46 pm
The photo Mayoclaret mentioned appears in the Claret Chronicles for season 42-43, a war-time season with a lot of scratch sides. In the photo, below, it is the same keeper.
IMG_5010.jpeg
I was wondering which trophy they were showing off.
Thanks!

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by DingleDangle » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:19 pm

The first photo I think is around 1950. Harold Rudman top left (as you look at the pic, next to the guy in the suit). The keeper isn't Jimmy Strong, so I think it might be Joe McNulty who was on the books then.

Will keep digging for more clues.

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by mdd2 » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:22 pm

Reg Kirkham is second top left as CT intimated. He was signed 47 and retired close season 1951. Played only 13 games if it is him and this makes me think the pic is our 2nd eleven (14).
I recall his pic and had another look at the recently posted picture of ex-clarets at the Lucas playing fields from the 1960's

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by DingleDangle » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:24 pm

Well I did a side by side comparison and it looked like Harold Rudman. But happy to concede if it's not. Maybe Gordon Haigh seated just below?

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by DingleDangle » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:27 pm

Harold Rudman
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by DingleDangle » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:29 pm

Gordon Haigh

Edit. George Knight not Gordon Haigh
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by DingleDangle » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:52 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:09 pm
Identified two in lower photo. Left of the keeper is Jimmy Stein, signed from Everton he played both wings. Right of the skipper is Charlie Fletcher, a left winger. They were only in the same squads for two seasons, 36-37 & 37-38. I’ll label it as that. Wish I knew what the trophy is? We didn’t win the Lancs. Senior Cup in either of them years.
Upper one to go.
Is the trophy the Community Shield?

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:59 pm

DingleDangle wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:52 pm
Is the trophy the Community Shield?
No. Although very similar. We have only won the Community Shield twice. The first was a share after a draw with Wolves in 1960 and the second when we won at Maine Rd in 1973.
Mayoclaret, correctly, identified the trophy as the Lancashire Junior Shield won in 1942-43 by what appears to be a reserve side.
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Clarets4me » Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:05 pm

The gent on the back row on the 2nd photo ( In the Trilby and Macintosh ), looks like he might do a roaring trade in black-market silk stockings, Lucky Strike cigarettes, snide watches and Whiskey ... for the right money, of course !! :roll:

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by FCBurnley » Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:13 pm

Top pic right of keeper could be Bob Johnson ?

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by DingleDangle » Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:26 pm

Just found this from a few years ago from this site, which might shed a bit more light about the 2nd pic.

viewtopic.php?t=14198
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by DingleDangle » Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:29 pm

DingleDangle wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 3:29 pm
Gordon Haigh

Edit. George Knight not Gordon Haigh
Just seen from an earlier post that I was correct originally with Gordon Haigh. Teach me to read the whole thread next time 😆

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by beeholeclaret » Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:50 pm

Top picture back row 3rd player from left (next to goalie) is Harold Spencer who played 4 first team games in the post war period. He scored 1 goal which I believe was a penalty kick away at Birmingham. He was on Burnley’s books from
1937 to 1950 though his career was interrupted by WW2.

His grandsons were both excellent cricketers for Burnley CC in the Lancashire League.
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:56 pm

DingleDangle wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:26 pm
Just found this from a few years ago from this site, which might shed a bit more light about the 2nd pic.

viewtopic.php?t=14198
Thanks for the link. Answers a lot of questions.

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by mdd2 » Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:59 pm

March 12th 1949 Bley Reserves 0 Liverpool 1
BFC team Ron Meadows; Bill Holden, Reg Kirkham; Joe Loughran, Bob Johnson, Harry Rudman; Tommy Henderson, Len Martindale, Alf Clarke, Ian Wilson, Ron Hornby.
Liverpool Reserves (2-3-5): Russell Crossley; Joe Cadden, Steve Parr; Willie Fagan, Laurie Hughes, Eddie Spicer; Les Shannon, Kevin Baron, Robert Williams, Doug McAvoy, Ken Brierley.
And a report
Burnley Reserves have seldom played worse than they did at Turf Moor on Saturday, when they allowed their nearest rivals, Liverpool, to take over the leadership of the Central League.

It was not that Liverpool were too good for the Clarets, far from it, the visitors were a disjointed team, too. It was just that Burnley lacked cohesion and teamwork. They appeared to have no aim or direction in their play, and the few storming assaults they launched on the Liverpool goal, especially in the closing minutes, were characterised mainly by enthusiasm rather than skill.

With men playing in unaccustomed positions, they never got going as a team.

Meadows, who blundered in allowing Liverpool to score, brought off some amazing saves in much more difficult circumstances. Martindale and Wilson were not a success as inside forwards. Too many passes went astray, although Wilson was always keen to have a go at goal.

Clarke worked hard to little purpose, Henderson was not up to his usual standard, and Hornby was too slow for Cadden – a good back. Loughran played well in defence, and Holden is proving himself fit for the reserve team. Kirkham and Rudman had a busy day against a virile Liverpool wing, Johnson had a poor game.

Burnley may claim that they were unlucky, they hit the crossbar on two occasion but they had their chances and muffed them.

In Burnley’s first attack, Hornby had a great chance but fired over. Honours were even in the opening stages and both goalkeepers were kept busy. Crossley saved from Martindale, Clarke, and Wilson. Williams caused Meadows some anxiety, and Johnson kicked clear from Brierley. But forward play was very aggressive, and both teams were weak in finishing. Liverpool were dangerous on the right, where Shannon and Kirkham had many duels.

Wilson shot strongly, and Hornby dallied when he had a chance, but towards half-time, the Burnley forward line really got moving and under pressure, the visitors were apt to panic.

The nearest to a score came when Martindale hit the crossbar with Crossley beaten.

Soon after the restart, Clarke had a great chance to put Burnley ahead, but from Henderson’s centre he fired over. The centre-forward almost made amends when he swept a Holden free kick goal-wards, but Crossley saved. Shannon caused Burnley more worry, and the defence were lucky to scramble clear one of his centres.

Liverpool went ahead after 67 minutes when Meadows misjudged a 40-yard shot from Spicer and allowed the ball to pass over his head into the back of the net.

This reverse stung Burnley into greater effort, and for a time they attacked strongly with the crowd giving them every encouragement, but they could not find an opening.

Meadows saved well from Fagan, Shannon and Baron.

Liverpool withstood very heavy pressure in the closing minutes, when the ball flashed backwards and forwards across their goalmouth. Wilson made a great effort after beating two men, and Hornby struck the crossbar.
(Burnley Express, 16-03-1949)

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:01 pm

I'm struggling with a new one. Only players I can make out are Jimmy Adamson, our right of the skipper front row and Jimmy Strong, the keeper.
I'd be grateful for a year and player names. Cheers
IMG_4635.jpg
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by mdd2 » Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:08 pm

I think bottom row 4th from left may be Ray Harrison who was in the Reserves by 1948 and left December 1949.
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by beeholeclaret » Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:10 pm

Is that Bill Holden to the right of the goalie as we look at it?
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by mdd2 » Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:11 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:01 pm
I'm struggling with a new one. Only players I can make out are Jimmy Adamson, our right of the skipper front row and Jimmy Strong, the keeper.
I'd be grateful for a year and player names. Cheers
IMG_4635.jpg
Keeper is McDonald next to Bill Holden on the right with Chew the last player at the back right
Bobby Seith may be to the right of picture next to Adamson
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by blsclaret » Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:35 pm

Interesting to read those pre 1951 names.

I now have my mum's autograph book which includes two full pages of a 1948 team.

I hope I have attached correctly
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by blsclaret » Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:39 pm

Also full teams of a Jubillee Cricket Match at Bacup, must be a similar time as is the page before the above, Eddie Cooper's XI vs Everton Weekes' XI.

I don't want them to end in a skip, would you know if they are of interest to anyone please ?

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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by blsclaret » Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:41 pm

Jubillee cricket match
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by DingleDangle » Mon Aug 25, 2025 7:40 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 5:01 pm
I'm struggling with a new one. Only players I can make out are Jimmy Adamson, our right of the skipper front row and Jimmy Strong, the keeper.
I'd be grateful for a year and player names. Cheers
IMG_4635.jpg
Jock Aird to our left of Colin McDonald?
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Re: oldie squad photo help needed

Post by beeholeclaret » Mon Aug 25, 2025 7:54 pm

beeholeclaret wrote:
Mon Aug 25, 2025 4:50 pm

Bump - did you spot this TT? I think mdd2 match report landed simultaneously 😉




Top picture back row 3rd player from left (next to goalie) is Harold Spencer who played 4 first team games in the post war period. He scored 1 goal which I believe was a penalty kick away at Birmingham. He was on Burnley’s books from
1937 to 1950 though his career was interrupted by WW2.

His grandsons were both excellent cricketers for Burnley CC in the Lancashire League.

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