**** VAR

[Ampth7]

The problem with VAR is that is not doing what it was created to do.

I thought VAR was meant to eradicate human error, pick up things the ref didn’t see and stop inconsistent decision making by officials……..

We used to just have MOTD pundits picking apart poor ref decisions and now we have MOTD pundits picking apart poor VAR decisions?!?! How are we any better off?

[dsr]

The picture is exactly what they showed.

It makes no sense to me, both Dalots and Foster’s sleeves are in colour.

So a double error, then. One, Foster's sleeve wasn't in front; two, even if it was it couldn't be offside.

[Tall Paul]

VAR got all the decisions right unfortunately.

Hard to argue it's biased against us when they could have easily not overturned the penalty in the first half

[Bacchus]

‘Assuming the offside graphic to be accurate’. And therein lies the problem, it isn’t 100% accurate with the technology we have, it can only ever be an approximation.

Agreed, but that's the technology that is used and in this instance it clearly says Foster is offside. That much is inarguable.

[Middle-agedClaret]

I’ve got to be honest - every time I see one of these impassioned, interminable and essentially pointless VAR debates, I am reminded how similar we are to our Victorian forebears…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_man ... f_a_pin%3F

[Bacchus]

Then why is the defenders shirt also in colour?

The defender should not have any part in colour.

The line is wrong.

I'm not sure on the colouring in convention, but in this case it's not really the issue. The line they've drawn shows Foster's shoulder is in advance of the defender's shoulder, foot, leg, head or any other part of his body apart from the arm. So it's offside, however frustratingly close.

[RVclaret]

So a double error, then. One, Foster's sleeve wasn't in front; two, even if it was it couldn't be offside.

I thought offside started from the shirt sleeve line and that was a recent ish change. Could be wrong though. But yeah, the line just isn’t right.

[RVclaret]

I'm not sure on the colouring in convention, but in this case it's not really the issue. The line they've drawn shows Foster's shoulder is in advance of the defender's shoulder, foot, leg, head or any other part of his body apart from the arm. So it's offside, however frustratingly close.

Sorry, they’ve not shown it’s in advance, as the line is not correctly drawn.

[Tall Paul]

It's Fosters right foot that is offside

[martin_p]

It's Fosters right foot that is offside

No, it definitely isn’t.

[Holmechapel]

Mersons just said on Sky it should have been 6 or 7 to united, he's a complete bell end

Let’s be realistic Utd should have been out of sight by halftime.

[RVclaret]

It's Fosters right foot that is offside

Its absolutely, 100% not.

[Holmechapel]

Its absolutely, 100% not.

How can you not see the Foster’s foot is not nearer the line,As Stan would say ‘A blind man on a galloping horse can see that’

[Bacchus]

Sorry, they’ve not shown it’s in advance, as the line is not correctly drawn.

It's not a great graphic, but there is a vertical line drawn from Foster's shoulder, and one drawn through the defender's arm. Assuming they both line up with the red line on the grass, that is offside.

Anyway, it matters not what we think. That was the decision and I'm not going to spoil my Saturday arguing or sulking about it.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Use the stupid thing properly or don’t use it at all is my stance on it.

It’s ruining the game , it could be very effective if used correctly but unfortunately it’s getting worse .

[Sgt. Pepper]

For anyone who's interested here's an article which as far as I'm aware pretty much proves that it is nigh on impossible to definitively prove tight offside decisions with the technology available.
The new computer graphics etc. are a further attempt to make something look foolproof when it really isn't.
There is a significant margin for error but noone really wants to acknowledge/discuss that.
It's not just today's decision, and indeed offsides which are the problem. Many other decisions have a subjective element.
VAR should be limited to absolute howlers (e.g. the wrong player, violent conduct that's been missed, blatant dives etc.). It just makes the experience eof football much worse for those who actually watch it.
https://theconversation.com/var-i-used- ... ong-189223

[RVclaret]

How can you not see the Foster’s foot is not nearer the line,As Stan would say ‘A blind man on a galloping horse can see that’

What are you on about? The line is drawn on, what is meant to be, the last piece of the defender that is considered onside. In this case it’s the shirt sleeve, but they’ve drawn it wrong as there’s still some sleeve in colour! The coloured bits should be Foster’s offside bit only!

[Roosterbooster]

It's possible that Foster's knee is where the line is taken, but it's just not very obvious in the graphic

[CoolClaret]

It's not a great graphic, but there is a vertical line drawn from Foster's shoulder, and one drawn through the defender's arm. Assuming they both line up with the red line on the grass, that is offside.

Anyway, it matters not what we think. That was the decision and I'm not going to spoil my Saturday arguing or sulking about it.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... ---offside

"1. Offside position

It is not an offence to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.

A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
second-last opponent or
last two opponents"

There is no way from that graphic, according to the above criteria, that offside can be determined. This is not what VAR etc was meant to be for.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

There's some proper choppers on this thread with their landing nets out early on in the evening......

I hope

[Sgt. Pepper]

As far as I'm aware the point of this research still stands.
The technology is not capable of definitive decisions on tight offsides. The fancy new graphics are an attempt to make it look somehow more convincing.
It's not just offsides that are the problem, many other decisions have a degree of subjectivity so VAR doesn't really help.
VAR should be for absolute howlers (e.g. violent conduct that has been missed, the wrong player being punished, blatant dives etc.) because often there is no right or wrong decision.
VAR just makes football a much less enjoyable experience.
https://theconversation.com/var-i-used- ... ong-189223

[Stacky_claret]

It was offside - foster goal
It was a pen - utd penalty

Claret tinted glasses off

How is that offside in thatpicture can you clarify for me

[Vegas Claret]

Parker has it absolutely spot on in his post match interviews about VAR and the direction the game is heading. Give me the Championship any day of the week.

[Procrastinate B]

It’s odd. I absolutely thought that Walker challenge was a penalty, but VAR correctly flagged it up from another angle. We benefited from that one.

The Foster offside - what can you say? I don’t agree with such minuscule measurements, but the assistant ruled it out anyway. How he could have been sure from such a close call, I don’t know.

The late penalty was harsh, but correct. If Jaidon had let go earlier, we would likely have had a point.

With that said, I’d prefer human error than the mercy of semi-automated offsides and suchlike. I don’t like the way things have gone and it’s only going to get more frustrating.

[Juan Tanamera]

Think anyone who can’t see that Foster’s foot is nearest the line is definitely biased or needs some new glasses.

I'm sure you'll be the first to correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the position of Foster's arm highlighted as to be offside and nothing to do with the position of feet.
My glasses are fine but thanks for your concern.

[Burnley1989]

Link to the specific rule please so I can check it.

Check law 12, obviously you could have just checked it yourself but here you go

"If a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty area and continues holding inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick."

[Procrastinate B]

It was his arm deemed offside.

[criminalclaret]

It’s odd. I absolutely thought that Walker challenge was a penalty, but VAR correctly flagged it up from another angle. We benefited from that one.

The Foster offside - what can you say? I don’t agree with such minuscule measurements, but the assistant ruled it out anyway. How he could have been sure from such a close call, I don’t know.

The late penalty was harsh, but correct. If Jaidon had let go earlier, we would likely have had a point.

With that said, I’d prefer human error than the mercy of semi-automated offsides and suchlike. I don’t like the way things have gone and it’s only going to get more frustrating.

We draw or dare I saw even won the game today thos thread is not even created.

It's only because we didn't come away with anything that the pitchforks are in force for people's frustrations.

Still, I'd rather there frustrations be taken out in a message board thread than through our own town centre in the years of late.

[dougcollins]

Maybe 3 or 4 goals, but he doesn't seem to hide the fact he's not our biggest fan.

Giving him a job is 'care in the community', to be fair.

[IPAclaret]

Let’s be realistic Utd should have been out of sight by halftime.

Yes should have been in front, but Merson said 6 or 7 which is nonsense

[Tall Paul]

If there was no VAR the two penalty decisions would cancel each other out and the offside would still have been given.

Then Match of the Day would analyse it in minute detail and everyone would be calling for VAR.

[Ampth7]

VAR got all the decisions right unfortunately.

Hard to argue it's biased against us when they could have easily not overturned the penalty in the first half

Have you seen the Chelsea v Fulham VAR debacle yet? Regardless of our game today, can you honestly say that VAR has solved the problem it was supposedly brought in to do?

It seems to me that every week brings a new VAR debate about some horrific decision which is no different to what we had when we relied purely on the ref!!

The problem is that VAR is being used for subjective decision making when it should only be used objectively! For example, Foster is offside today because the tech is accurate based on the rules as they currently stand. It’s much the same with goal line tech; it works!

[burnleymik]

The way VAR is implemented is the frustrating thing for me. When one of the so-called "smaller" clubs want VAR to intervene they don't seem to even look at it or dismiss it quickly to go with the onfield decision, but when it's one of the big teams needing the help of VAR they almost always get it, see Chelsea and Fulham today too.

Also, for the smaller teams they seem to spend an absolute age trying to find a way to rule out the goals and once again it feels like it's not applied equally to the bigger teams.

Overall, it's utter crap for the entertainment of the game.

[rosswallacefreekick]

Parker’s post match interview is spot on: VAR has made the game boring by taking fans out of the moment.

At its worst, it’s made the game immensely frustrating and open to allegations of corruption.

How are referees so bad with so much money in the game? The whole thing really turns me off football — the Championship is so much better without it.

[Mattster]

Thing is, pretty sure Yoro was actually the closer United player to the byline, not Dalot. They don't even show Yoro, it wouldn't surprise me to find that line was actually drawn from Yoro.

[Dark Cloud]

It's simply not worked as it was created and intended to work. It's just brought more differing opinions into the decision making process, but often actually "proves" nothing. The Fulham "goal" earlier in the day is all you need to look at to know this.

[Tall Paul]

Yeah, Chelsea v Fulham was bad.

[welsbyswife]

Parker’s post match interview is spot on: VAR has made the game boring by taking fans out of the moment.

At its worst, it’s made the game immensely frustrating and open to allegations of corruption.

How are referees so bad with so much money in the game? The whole thing really turns me off football — the Championship is so much better without it.

Fully agree with this. Whatever the right or wrong of the individual decisions it is ruining the game as a spectacle.

[dsr]

If there was no VAR the two penalty decisions would cancel each other out and the offside would still have been given.

Then Match of the Day would analyse it in minute detail and everyone would be calling for VAR.

The offside probably wouldn't have been given if VAR hadn't been there. If there was no VAR, the linesman has to decide who is in front, and if they're level, it's onside. Under VAR, the linesman has to decide who is in front, but if they're level to keep his flag down and see what happens, and then take a guess.

If a Championship linesman had flagged that, he would have been wrong because the players were level. Even the VAR technology that gave the offside isn't accurate enough to know whether he was offside or not. Any linesman claiming to know that Foster was two inches ahead at the moment the ball was first struck, is lying - no human eye can judge that. They can only guess.

[groove]

I can't be doing with all this forensic analysis. All this toenail business. It takes us away from talking about the game properly. The whole game.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Some bores can defend VAR forever but without it we at least know to celebrate or not. Today was a farce. Atwell was the busiest official. United have no big screen. None of us had a clue. The ref was told about that injury time pen when he was back in the centre circle then took an age reviewing it.

[123EasyasBFC]

Is that refs Mic’d up show with Howard Webb on sky back this season or has it been scrapped?

[Ampth7]

The way VAR is implemented is the frustrating thing for me. When one of the so-called "smaller" clubs want VAR to intervene they don't seem to even look at it or dismiss it quickly to go with the onfield decision, but when it's one of the big teams needing the help of VAR they almost always get it, see Chelsea and Fulham today too.

Also, for the smaller teams they seem to spend an absolute age trying to find a way to rule out the goals and once again it feels like it's not applied equally to the bigger teams.

Overall, it's utter crap for the entertainment of the game.

Which is basically the same bias that we had pre VAR…… it’s not objective enough.

As for the impact on us fans; I remember watching us under Dyche away at Arsenal and Barnesy equalised only for VAR to pause celebrations…….the goal eventually stood but the moment was completely lost for us fans. Hated VAR ever since tbh……

[Luppy]

We think we have been hard done by - don’t know what you’d think if you’re a Fulham fan tonight. There’s no big club bias though - honest. An absolutely horrendous, ridiculous decision

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

We think we have been hard done by - don’t know what you’d think if you’re a Fulham fan tonight. There’s no big club bias though - honest. An absolutely horrendous, ridiculous decision

Saw the Fulham one in the pub in the game before the match absolutely ridiculous decision. If ever a ref was made for VAR and an announcement to the crowd it’s Rob Jones.

[Vegas Claret]

Marco Silva has it right, I wish all the managers would get together and give a joint press conference saying it's absolute rubbish
https://x.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1961795831541244241

[Vintage Claret]

For offside VAR decisions I think there would be less controversy if they changed the rules and made it that if any part of the attacking players body is onside when they draw their lines then it shouldn't be given offside.

[claretgilly]

I don't really buy any of this VAR against us b**ocks, I think we just have sore losers here.

Mount pen claim - the right call. Had a ref not had Var and is looked from behind Walker, he is never seeing the pull and so decision stands
Foster offside goal - you have to be clear and obvious to be onside and it had always been to the benefit of the defending side. This was absolutely down the mm and I'm gutted because it was a lovely finish but its increibly tight.
Anthony pull - no complaints. It's a pen.

Its had and does have its mental moments, but today wasn't one of them. I though the officiating was relatively fair for both sides

I agree in the sense that by the “letter of the law”, b0ll0ck5 as some of those laws may be (what advantage is Foster gaining there ), they probably interpreted them correctly, and that is what the pundits etc will say about today.

The frustration is I seriously doubt they send him to the screen if the shirt tug is at the other end (and would we complain?), just as I seriously doubt Eze’s freekick at Chelsea and Josh King’s goal there today are ruled out if scored by a Chelsea player. And had any of these decisions not been referred, nobody would really have batted an eyelid. So why does VAR go looking for it when nobody else sees it?
That is what makes it crap.

[Vegas Claret]

For offside VAR decisions I think there would be less controversy if they changed the rules and made it that if any part of the attacking players body is onside when they draw their lines then it shouldn't be given offside.

exactly

[Burnley87]

It makes me laugh that there is a tolerance when I drive on the road and someone clocks my speeding but the premier league and the PGMOL believe there systems are more accurate