Tom Cleverly

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:00 am

Whooosh.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:56 am

KRBFC wrote:While we're all discussing this, who on earth is Dean Jones? and what is Bleacher report? I highly doubt we'd be able to afford him but I've no idea who Dean Jones is, is he accurate or another stab in the dark type?

Never been the same since The Love Bug

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:54 am

last time we used any sort of report we ended up with Brian Laws

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:47 am

A few people have mentioned wages. He is rumoured to be on 30k a week at Everton. Is that out of our ball park?

Don't know the in and outs of our club but I imagine Defour and Hendrick will be on similar figures

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:01 am

He was reputed to be on more then that at Utd and wanted about double that to join Villa which they refused to pay.

I'll be impressed if he's on £30k a week in this day and age because Everton are known for paying well.
Hes probably on £40-50k a week.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:28 am

There's a big difference between being a good player for United, Everton or us. He was very good for Watford and according to a Wigan fan I know he was brilliant for them too. Regular starts make all the difference.

Remember that Djemba Djemba was the worst player ever if you listen to United fans! This could be a shrewd one.

MrTopTier · Post by **MrTopTier** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:18 am

I mean, i know its not a vintage generation, and i know Cleverley has lost his way a bit since the last of those caps, but are we really at the point of saying full England internationals who are still in their prime arent up to our standard? Seriously?

Seems to be so, I had a look on the Everton board and he is certainly one who divides opinion, bit like Dave Jones on here. The most positive thing they had to say, was that he is good at being the first person to celebrate with the person who has scored.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:22 am

KRBFC wrote:Yeah and most of the delusional lot on here were raving about the capture of Marvin and I was negative for saying he was sh**e

Oh come on

I cannot remember anybody raving about Marvin Sordell. Most found his signing underwhelming but were willing to give him a chance.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:24 am

claretspice wrote:This is someone who has played 13 times for England.

I mean, i know its not a vintage generation, and i know Cleverley has lost his way a bit since the last of those caps, but are we really at the point of saying full England internationals who are still in their prime arent up to our standard? Seriously?

You sound surprised, every player we get linked with won't get past 10 replies on here without the standard "nah not for me" response from someone. It is like people watch midfield players on show last night and then think we shouldn't sign anyone below that level due to us being in the same division. Then they sit there at the end of a transfer window and it is classed as a fail in their eyes.

Roll on February

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:04 am

Well said Claretdom. I was thinking something similar. Frankly I haven't a clue what this guy is like. Is he what we want. Is he what we need. But then again I am not a PL Manager.

But that doesn't seen to stop people having very definite views (based on what - I am not quite sure) giving very forceful opinionated views. I don't mind the debate but sometimes it just gets a bit daft.

I'm just happy we are where we are with money to invest.

As you say roll on February.

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:29 am

I remember him being very good at Watford & Wigan. Looked out of his depth at United and has been okay at Everton. Good pedigree, experienced, still only 27. Think he could be a great signing for us.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:48 am

i've seen cleverley have some brilliant games and then others where he's been an absolute bag of daz.

he'd probably be alright for us.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:26 am

Not sure where he'd fit in for us. Don't see him being very effective in a two and he seems similarish to Hendrick, who he wouldn't displace in a three. If you put him in for Marney you've then got three passers and no tacklers, which isn't ideal.

He might have 13 caps for England, but how many of them did he actually deserve? He's done very little to suggest he's a Premier League player for me, let alone an international one.

If he hadn't come through at United he would have dropped a level by now already. Everton are very average this season and he isn't getting a look.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:50 am

The money for him would be better spent in areas on the pitch where we are genuinely lacking.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:09 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:i've seen cleverley have some brilliant games and then others where he's been an absolute bag of daz.

quoonbeatz takes us the doorstep original insult challenge. It'll never catch on.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:15 pm

Which side of the doorstep, though ? In Tide or out Tide ?
Either way, it won't wash with me........I know.....

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:31 pm

I thought Hourihane from Burnsley would have been a better shout, however, you could see prospective candidates could be looking at us now and saying maybe they are overloaded in midfield?

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:53 pm

Jambo wrote:Not sure where he'd fit in for us. Don't see him being very effective in a two and he seems similarish to Hendrick, who he wouldn't displace in a three. If you put him in for Marney you've then got three passers and no tacklers, which isn't ideal.

I always thought he was more of a wide midfielder than a centre mid, I'm sure he used to impress from wide positions for Wigan. I sure if we're interested it'd be to do what Arfield does in our 442, protecting the full back and tucking in when attacking. I think he'd fit that system perfectly and once up to speed and playing regularly could be a serious upgrade on Arfield.

I'd hope that being in the Prem makes us more attractive than Newcastle, would really like to see this one happen.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:00 pm

If it's a choice between soon-to-be-26 year old ex-Plymouth and Barnsley player Conor Hourihane and 27 year old Tom Cleverley, it's the bloke with 13 England caps for me.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:07 pm

I just don't rate him. He works hard and he's a tidy enough footballer but he doesn't seem to do much, ever. He's got all the hand gestures and gesticulations whilst making a point of showing for the ball in areas of the pitch where he won't influence the game. I'd file him in the category of ex-Man United player who's made a living from having that on his CV. Oh, and I saw him on a night out in Leeds last year and he was dressed like Snoop Dogg.

That said, if Dyche brought him here then I'd trust his judgement

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:16 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah and most of the delusional lot on here were raving about the capture of Marvin and I was negative for saying he was sh**e

There was no 'on here' when we signed Sordell, so you've made the last bit up.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:18 pm

He'd be a very good addition to our squad. Consider him as an upgrade on Arfield if you like - I'm sure he could fill in one of the wide roles in a 4-4-2 as we play it. Whether that justifies whatever his wages might be is questionable but I think people expecting us to be pulling in players of a much higher calibre at this point are optimistic, bordering on delusional.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:38 pm

Bacchus wrote:He'd be a very good addition to our squad. Consider him as an upgrade on Arfield if you like - I'm sure he could fill in one of the wide roles in a 4-4-2 as we play it. Whether that justifies whatever his wages might be is questionable but I think people expecting us to be pulling in players of a much higher calibre at this point are optimistic, bordering on delusional.

Completely agree with this, particularly comments about expectations. Could certainly play the Arfield role and I'm pretty sure he's industrious enough to play the Marney role too.

Some of the comments on this thread just go to show how fickle modern football is. Notably those about players good enough to play 50+ times for United, principally under Fergie, and 13 times for England, not being good enough for Burnley. Just goes to show that a couple of years out of the limelight and these days a player is as good as written off.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Rileybobs wrote:He works hard and he's a tidy enough footballer but he doesn't seem to do much, ever.

Could easily be describing Arfield or Boyd. Cleverley's better than both in almost every respect.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:47 pm

Walton wrote:Could easily be describing Arfield or Boyd. Cleverley's better than both in almost every respect.

I'm sure he is, but given our current position and new found wealth I'd like to think that we're setting the bar higher than 'better than Arfield and Boyd'.

I don't think he'd be a terrible signing, I just think he's vastly overrated - probably because he's an product of the Man Utd academy.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:54 pm

I would agree that he's not good enough for a team with Man Utd's ambitions, nor possibly with Everton's inflated ambitions now Moshiri's there, but for a club whose aim is to finish at least 17th and build on that, then he's perfectly fine for that.

He's younger than Arfield, younger than Boyd, younger than Marney, younger than Barton, younger than Defour. He'd do us for a good few seasons. He seems a good next step in the process of replacing the Championship core with a Premier League one.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:25 pm

The problem is he wasn't ever good enough for United, which is why despite being given more than enough chances he soon rocked up at a mid-table side, where he can't get a game. And he probably wouldn't have got those England caps had he not been at United.

The difference between Hourihane and Cleverley is that their careers appear to be going in different directions. Hourihane is having an excellent season and Cleverley has done very little in the last couple of years. In fact at 27 it could be argued his career has never really got going at all. Maybe a move and regular football is what he needs, but he'd be a punt regardless of the international caps and United background.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:32 pm

Jambo 1 Alex Ferguson 0

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:51 pm

Aye, Dom is right here. He didn't just hang around at United - he started 50 games, or 10 times aa many as Chris Eagles to put it another way, and 5 times more than Macheda. Thats a lot of games - mostly under Fergie and in a title winning team. I can't think of too many players to make that many appearances for United and be total duds.

And Everton are a pretty respectable side. Not sure he ideally fits Koeman's 4-2-3-1 set up so he's perhaps a victim of that as much as anything else.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:00 pm

everton might be a mid-table side but they're an established mid-table side. despite our current position in the table, we're not.

just because he isn't starting in everton's midfield, certainly doesn't mean he isn't good enough to start in ours.

lrac · Post by **lrac** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:03 pm

just my op.i think he would be good for us .utc

Stan Tastic · Post by **Stan Tastic** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:16 pm

Didn't Nick Pickering play for England?

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:28 pm

Stan Tastic wrote:Didn't Nick Pickering play for England?

Not 13 times though, no comparison

MrTopTier · Post by **MrTopTier** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:31 pm

http://www.worldfootball.net/player_sum ... -league/2/

Arguably his best season was at Villa when he made 31 appearances, yet they finished 17th
Lower mid table established premier league player.
Yes he could do a job for us and is better than Lansbury.
Still meh about it though.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:41 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I'm sure he is, but given our current position and new found wealth I'd like to think that we're setting the bar higher than 'better than Arfield and Boyd'.

I don't think he'd be a terrible signing, I just think he's vastly overrated - probably because he's an product of the Man Utd academy.

I think that 'better than Arfield and Boyd' is exactly what we should be looking at.
We urgently need upgrades in several positions and 27 year old former England internationals who've lost their way don't come around very often.
I would definitely, 100 % want this to happen.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:15 pm

Not sure how many people are saying that Cleverly isn`t good enough for Burnley....or would not be an improvement on some of our midfield.

I think some of the doubts are whether he is "that" much better to justify the salary level he is on - which has got to be £50k a week based on the well publicised increase he got when he went to Villa.

27 years old is no age of course but it would be hard to argue that Cleverly is still reaching his peak given his last couple of years performances.

Could he still be a good asset for Burnley and improve our first eleven ?.....Probably

Would he be worth the money ?.....not sure - depends on structure of any deal

Do we have priorities in other positions ?....probably (pacey winger, full back, another forward)

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:04 pm

Unsurprisingly he's also linked with Newcastle.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:07 pm

50 games over 2/3 years is a bit-part role, Ferguson obviously didn't rate him that highly. It's easy enough to argue that United could have shifted him on earlier and likely wouldn't have missed him. I doubt anyone remembers him as a key part of any of their successes.

But you're missing the point anyway. He played a bit for United and wasn't good enough, so they got rid, and he's done nothing in the three seasons since then to suggest he's PL quality. Maybe he'll go somewhere else and prove he is, maybe Dyche could get more out of him than other managers have, but I haven't seen other PL teams linked with him.

He probably wouldn't be a disastrous signing, but I'd rather we go for players who are on the up. He's also known for being a touch pedestrian, which doesn't really suit our game.

SparkyClaret · Post by **SparkyClaret** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:17 pm

Walton wrote: He seems a good next step in the process of replacing the Championship core with a Premier League one.

This is a very good point. I don't expect us to be unearthing the next Christiano Ronaldo, or signing Messi. What I would love to see in this transfer window is signs that we are building towards a Premier League calibre squad.

To do that, someone like Cleverley isn't a bad shout

John Johnson 1605 · Post by **John Johnson 1605** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:18 pm

Jambo wrote:50 games over 2/3 years is a bit-part role, Ferguson obviously didn't rate him that highly. It's easy enough to argue that United could have shifted him on earlier and likely wouldn't have missed him. I doubt anyone remembers him as a key part of any of their successes.

But you're missing the point anyway. He played a bit for United and wasn't good enough, so they got rid, and he's done nothing in the three seasons since then to suggest he's PL quality. Maybe he'll go somewhere else and prove he is, maybe Dyche could get more out of him than other managers have, but I haven't seen other PL teams linked with him.

He probably wouldn't be a disastrous signing, but I'd rather we go for players who are on the up. He's also known for being a touch pedestrian, which doesn't really suit our game.

Absolutely nailed it.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:19 pm

Its only a loan deal what is mooted anyway.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:39 pm

Jambo wrote: Ferguson obviously didn't rate him that highly.

He must have seen something in him to give him 50 matches.

If Trippier gets less than 50 games in 2/3 seasons with Spurs I presume that makes him automatically rubbish. It must do if you apply the same logic!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:45 pm

Spijed wrote:He must have seen something in him to give him 50 matches.

If Trippier gets less than 50 games in 2/3 seasons with Spurs I presume that makes him automatically rubbish. It must do if you apply the same logic!

No not really - Tripps can play in one position and has been unlucky enough to find himself behind the best right back in England....Tripps would get in most other teams in Premier League in my view (if not all of them)

Cleverly is not getting much of a look in behind a midfield four and is now behind a couple of young players who have broke into the Everton team - aswell as behind a few other Everton midfielders.

Doesn't make him a bad player all of a sudden - but pretty easy to see why there are doubts

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:04 pm

CnBtruntru wrote:I thought Hourihane from Burnsley would have been a better shout, however, you could see prospective candidates could be looking at us now and saying maybe they are overloaded in midfield?

I think more likely they look and see Scott Arfield in centre midfield away at Man City with a kid centre mid on the bench and think there's a chance of some game time

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:13 pm

Spijed wrote:He must have seen something in him to give him 50 matches.

If Trippier gets less than 50 games in 2/3 seasons with Spurs I presume that makes him automatically rubbish. It must do if you apply the same logic!

Trippier gets better on here the less games he plays I think you'll find.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:30 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Trippier gets better on here the less games he plays I think you'll find.

I think the main reason Trippier gets better on here is that his replacements of Lowton, Darikwa and Flanagan are not even close to him. Oh and all the perfect crosses he seems to put in for Spurs in his limited appearances.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:31 pm

He saw something in Alan Smith as well to be fair.

Joking aside I don't think he's as bad as some are making out.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:42 pm

He's no world beater but he'd vastly improve our squad and chances of survival. Like someone else has mentioned we need to start strengthening with Premier League players. If we can stay in this league for a few years he'd move down the pecking order. Stoke didn't get players like Bojan, arnaltttoovvichh? shaqiri in their first season. It takes time.

Rojales Claret · Post by **Rojales Claret** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:45 pm

Why do people presume that IF he is on 50k/week at Everton he wouldn't accept less to move. Maybe he would be tempted by more game time.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:01 pm

^^^^^^
Naive.