Nick Clegg. Does he have any credibility left?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:33 am

Student tuition fees.

"There are no plans for an EU army "

And now the latest revelations

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2600829/g ... gg-claims/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:41 am

I wouldn't wipe my arse with 'the sun'..

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 am

Don't shoot the messenger....

Billy_Bumface · Post by **Billy_Bumface** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:04 am

None the less a thoroughly nice chap, met his parents once,delightful people.

Hapless, well intentioned career politician.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:18 am

Show me a 90 year old lady who isn't 'Grumpy' at times...

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:25 am

He knowingly threw himself under a bus re. tuition fees in order to reel in c.untface and c.unthead. He's despised only by those who don't actually understand how vicious Cameron and Osborne could have been in those frail, post-liquidity crisis years.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:07 am

He's got far more credibility than the malevolent, mendacious, racist, hateful pieces of **** the OP seems to like. Farage, Trump, etc.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:31 am

Oh god, here we go. ANOTHER party political broadcast on behalf of the communist party. Don't you lot realise we only have the likes of farage and trump because YOUR lot created them???

Look. He's a lying two hat. He wanted his taste of power, and was prepared to do absolutely ANYTHING to get it.

I am referring to nick clegg, but of course I could be talking about ANY politician.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:39 am

bobinho wrote:Oh god, here we go. ANOTHER party political broadcast on behalf of the communist party. Don't you lot realise we only have the likes of farage and trump because YOUR lot created them???

What kind of idiotic logic is that?

Imagine if someone said that islamic terrorism only exists because you created it. That's how funny and stupid your comment it.

And who's the communist? Wait, wait. Maybe the reason Corbyn exists is because you created him.

Hey, this is your "logic" we're using.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:44 am

Now I might be wrong, but isn't the rise in Islamic terrorism partly due to the USA/West sticking their nose in to places where they aren't wanted?

The US is viewed as the great devil in some parts of the Islamic world I believe.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:47 am

And your post wasn't illogical and idiotic saying Clegg currently has more credibility than Trump who has just been given the backing of the US citizens to become president, or Farage who has successfully campaigned relentlessly for Brexit?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:50 am

Sidney1st wrote:Now I might be wrong, but isn't the rise in Islamic terrorism partly due to the USA/West sticking their nose in to places where they aren't wanted?

The US is viewed as the great devil in some parts of the Islamic world I believe.

In part, yes, but that doesn't mean America asked for it, or wholely created it. Islamic terrorism has been around longer than America. So has most other forms of religious terrorism. But if you ever say that America created islamic terrorism they way bobinho says liberals created Farage and Trump, you'd be accused of victim blaming, and the accusation would be a fair one. It'd be like saying a rape victim who dressed provocatively created a rapist.

Now watch as people get upset by my choice of metaphor, deliberately missing the point.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:55 am

But America has clearly armed these groups/warlords to suit there agenda then when they have no more use for them they become terror groups.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:08 am

taio wrote:And your post wasn't illogical and idiotic saying Clegg currently has more credibility than Trump who has just been given the backing of the US citizens to become president, or Farage who has successfully campaigned relentlessly for Brexit?

Are you talking about Farage who quit as UKIP leader when Leave won? Or Trump who lies more often than he tells the truth?

Clegg did a great job ad Deputy PM in preventing the tories from running amok. He had to compromise on some things like tuition fees in order to prevent the tories doing other things like the snoopers' charter. But people seem to want to blame Clegg for not enacting the Lib Dems manifesto, as if he was the PM. It was a coalition government, he was never going to get everything he promised in his campaign because he wasn't elected PM. And you think that damages his credibility? I think if you think that it damages yours.

Farage quit when it looked like he might actually have some responcibility for the UKs future. What kind of credibility can he have?
And Trump?

A man triggered by an actress' speech at an awards ceremony. A man who attacked the parents of an Ameican war hero when they criticised him. A man who used a reporters' disability to mock him. A man who had paid staffers attend his recent press conference so they could cheer him. A man who brags about the size of his penis during a presidential debate. A man who brags about being able to grab women by their genitals. Do i need to go on, do i need to link his Politifact profile, or are you finally realising just how stupid it is to suggest that Clegg has less credibility than this horrible piece of work?

Trump more credible than clegg?

You have more credibility than that fascist.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:26 am

Farage has credibility?

Jesus

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:29 am

Yes I'm talking about Nigel Farage and Donald Trump - the same two as you. I voted Remain and had hoped Trump wouldn't win the presidency, but to say for example that Trump has less credibility than Clegg currently when he had sufficient democratic backing to become president is laughable. The crux of it is you despise those two people - which is fair enough - but better to leave it their rather putting forward stupid credibility arguments to fit your own view. I realise that Clegg was often a scapegoat is his role as DPM. As for you referring to my own credibility that's also laughable coming from you with the deplorable stuff you write on here.

SonofPog · Post by **SonofPog** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:35 am

Libdems, admittedly go against their stated position on one thing, tution fees and get pilloried for it.

Meanwhile, the Tories went against everything ducking thing they promised, (remember no top down reorganisation of the NHS anyone?) and everytime they do, they just went "coalition" and everyone laps it up so much, England goes and votes them in with an increased majority.

And now, we're (not sure who that is but I'm assuming people on the supposed "left") are to blame for farage and trump? Sorry mate, not buying it. That's on the people that voted them. You voted for it. (Or the you know, the people who did in 'Mercia) So it's on you.

~ ~ ~

As for the actual OP, politican with an EU bias takes a diplomatic stance to not point out that Queenie is a raging Brexitier who wants her commonwealth back to rule, then afterwards admits that yeah, she had a few words to say on it. It's hardly the flip flop of the century. But The Sun continues to expose whatever hypocrisy that Rupurt wants pointing out that week, to people who think they're "free thinkers" and not at all influenced by an Australian Billionaire. Even after they've run a headline that literally said. "It's the Sun that won it".

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:37 am

taio wrote:Yes I'm talking about Nigel Farage and Donald Trump - the same two as you. I voted Remain and had hoped Trump wouldn't win the presidency, but to say for example that Trump has less credibility than Clegg currently when he had sufficient democratic backing to become president is laughable. The crux of it is you despise those two people - which is fair enough - but better to leave it their rather putting forward stupid credibility arguments to fit your own view. I realise that Clegg was often a scapegoat is his role as DPM. As for you referring to my own credibility that's also laughable coming from you with the deplorable stuff you write on here.

Politifact has rated 347 statements from Donald trump and over two-thirds of them have been rated either "mostly false", "false", or "pants on fire". Just because people voted for him doesn't mean he's trustworthy.

And stop getting butthurt about being called more credible than Trump. Of all the things to get pissy about that seemslike a pretty stupid one.

Also, please find two things i've said that you think are deplorable.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:38 am

Nick Clegg lost some credibility by going back on some of his pledges when he formed a coalition government. He did what he thought was best at the time. He'll never recover from that, and will always be viewed as a let down by a lot of people. Which is fair enough.

Trump on the other hand has never had any credibility to actually lose. The list of character flaws is endless. He's a barely credible human being, let alone President. The man is a ludicrous cartoon.

And the link provided by the OP is to a rag which has far, far less credibility than Nick Clegg.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:42 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:
And the link provided by the OP is to a rag which has far, far less credibility than Nick Clegg.

Taio will be along to tell you how The Sun is the most credible newspaper in the UK because the most people buy it.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:43 am

I couldn't give a rats ass about those ratings. What matters is enough people in the US believed in Trump.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:44 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Taio will be along to tell you how The Sun is the most credible newspaper in the UK because the most people buy it.

Erm no I won't. Because that'd be nearly as stupid as your analogy.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:45 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Farage has credibility?

Jesus

Whatever you think of him he changed the countries mind about staying in the EU. We wouldn't even of had the vote if it weren't for him.

Even the wildest Nick Clegg fan would realise he never got anywhere near such heights as a politician.

All the UKIP reps who took part in the debates suggested they would be out of a job if they won. What more can they really do as a party?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:48 am

taio wrote:I couldn't give a rats ass about those ratings. What matters is enough people in the US believed in Trump.

So when it comes to deciding whether one person is more credible than another, you don't care that one of them lies approximately two-thirds of the time?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:49 am

taio wrote:I couldn't give a rats ass about those ratings. What matters is enough people in the US believed in Trump.

But not 50% of the electorate - it must be added.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:49 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Whatever you think of him he changed the countries mind about staying in the EU. We wouldn't even of had the vote if it weren't for him.

Even the wildest Nick Clegg fan would realise he never got anywhere near such heights as a politician.

All the UKIP reps who took part in the debates suggested they would be out of a job if they won. What more can they really do as a party?

He also said that the reason he was late for a UKIP event was because of immigration.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:51 am

nil_desperandum wrote:But not 50% of the electorate - it must be added.

It also makes Clinton more credible than Trump, if we're using vote count as a measure of credibility.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:53 am

No because it's about what people believe to use as the basis for making their deomcratic decision. You seem to be confusing my own personal view about an individual with my view that I believe that many Americans thought Trump had sufficient credibility to become president.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:54 am

taio wrote:Erm no I won't. Because that'd be nearly as stupid as your analogy.

But if getting people to vote for you, which is free, makes you more credible than other people, then why doesn't getting people to spend money to buy your paper make you credible?

This is your logic we're using so if yu think my analogy is stupid it's because it hardn;t has much of a starting point.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:54 am

nil_desperandum wrote:But not 50% of the electorate - it must be added.

But a sufficient number of people who believed in him for him to become president.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:58 am

taio wrote:No because it's about what people believe to use as the basis for making their deomcratic decision. You seem to be confusing my own personal view about an individual with my view that I believe that many Americans thought Trump had sufficient credibility to become president.

I think you're mistaking popularity with credibility.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:06 am

The people of Sheffield should be ashamed voting in this clown

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:26 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:The people of Sheffield should be ashamed voting in this clown

If the good people of Sheffield show some common sense and kick this treasonous rat out. I doubt he'll struggle to make ends meet. Like his globalist chum, George Osborne, he's got quite a tidy side line in making 2hour speeches at over £200000 a pop!!!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... ch-pepsico" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't lose any sleep over the financial well being of Nick "nice but sinister" Clegg

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:42 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:If the good people of Sheffield show some common sense and kick this treasonous rat out. I doubt he'll struggle to make ends meet. Like his globalist chum, George Osborne, he's got quite a tidy side line in making 2hour speeches at over £200000 a pop!!!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... ch-pepsico" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't lose any sleep over the financial well being of Nick "nice but sinister" Clegg

People you disagree with politically are "treasonous rats" now, are they?

Just curious, do you think traitors should be executed?

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:58 am

He never had any credibility so he can't have any left. He was Cameron's bitch just because he wanted to be in power at any cost.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:10 pm

taio wrote:But a sufficient number of people who believed in him for him to become president.

Well that's true, but the bottom line is, - that in a two horse race he came 2nd in the popular vote.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:20 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Nick Clegg lost some credibility by going back on some of his pledges when he formed a coalition government. He did what he thought was best at the time. He'll never recover from that, and will always be viewed as a let down by a lot of people. Which is fair enough.

And the link provided by the OP is to a rag which has far, far less credibility than Nick Clegg.

Nick Clegg/Lib Dems promised "no tuition fees" in their 2010 manifesto - while both Lab and Tories would maintain fees. At this time Lib Dems had 0% chance of being in government, so, an easy promise to offer.

Election result was split, so that neither Tories or Labour could form government on their own. This was less than 2 years since "world financial crisis." It was not time for a political crisis in UK. Tories had greater number of seats - and Labour were the previous government (i.e. had lost the election). It is very much to Nick Clegg's credit that he brought the Lib Dems into a coalition government and help the UK avoid a political crisis.

Clegg should have been given more credit by Lib Dem supporters for joining the coalition. They should have "let it go" that he'd promised "no tuition fees." But, because this wasn't happening, Clegg/Lib Dems started to take actions while in coalition that would "distance" the Lib Dems from Conservatives. This was a mistake. They were in coalition with the Conservatives. They were part of the Government. But, their actions created a sense that the Lib Dems were "disloyal and untrustworthy" compounding the memories of promising "no tuition fees."

So, Nick Clegg and Lib Dems lost their image of being the "centre ground" - and created a new image of not being capable of being in government.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:23 pm

BennyD wrote:He never had any credibility so he can't have any left. He was Cameron's bitch just because he wanted to be in power at any cost.

We should give Clegg credit for joining the coalition - it avoided a political crisis in 2010 that would have been very bad for all of us.

It's how he played the Lib Dem hand later in the coalition that lost Lib Dems votes in 2015.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:24 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Well that's true, but the bottom line is, - that in a two horse race he came 2nd in the popular vote.

No, the bottom line is in the context of the points I were making - in response to Turtle and what you quoted me on - is that there are enough US citizens who believe in him to elect him president.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:37 pm

Paul Waine wrote:We should give Clegg credit for joining the coalition - it avoided a political crisis in 2010 that would have been very bad for all of us.

It's how he played the Lib Dem hand later in the coalition that lost Lib Dems votes in 2015.

If he hadn't got into bed with the Tories he would have gone in with Labour to form a coalition. He wanted to be in power and he was going to get there by hook or by crook. Personally, I have no time for Clegg, Cameron, Osborne and their ilk.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:09 pm

BennyD wrote:If he hadn't got into bed with the Tories he would have gone in with Labour to form a coalition. He wanted to be in power and he was going to get there by hook or by crook. Personally, I have no time for Clegg, Cameron, Osborne and their ilk.

Sometimes someone has to do the "statesman" thing. Nick Clegg did this May 2010.

Joining with Labour wasn't an option. I don't think that created a majority and first rule is that the largest party (Tories) get's first chance to form gov't.

Cameron and Osborne lost their way with referendum. It's good that Cameron is no longer in politics. Maybe Osborne will never be in Cabinet again, either.

Clegg's time has past as well.