May's EU speech

[RocketLawnChair]

What was it Lancaster was saying in post 11 about being allowed to call people thick as pigshit?

[claretdom]

Jesus for every sensible comment from someone who voted to remain (lancaster) there is a hissy fit style drama queen comment(johnmcgreal) to act as some counter balance.


PS: If you re foreign John I don't hate you

[RingoMcCartney]

The EU will bend over backwards to keep up us in the single market, the Leave campaigners once claimed.

At least May has now accepted what the EU and others have been saying all along; that full access to the single market requires the acceptance of the 4 freedoms of movement.

Now, I'd prefer that she'd seen sense by this point and realised that we're better off accepting those freedoms, but no. She's in full scale UKIP mode now, and nothing is going to stop her from trashing her own country's economy in order to please the anti-immigration mob.

It looks like we hate foreigners more than we like a strong economy. Which is a shame.

[aggi]

UK > EU trade = £5.9 billion p.a
EU > UK trade = = £12.6 billion p.a

I can't imagine many EU businesses being happy at not only losing that trade but having to pay WTO tariffs to try and regain access...

As for the idea that France and Germany will try to steal our banking and finance sector- I'd be surprised if any of them are daft enough to leave when you have the US already talking about free trade agreements. Never mind Canada, NZ etc

All that's happened today is that May has shown a hand grenade to the EU and said- "I'll pull the pin if I have to...."

I think those figures are hugely out, more like £250bn against £300bn

That deficit is obviously shared between far more countries though. However, Germany does bear about half of it so they may have more incentive to go easy. They'd need to bring the other countries into line though which they may well not be keen with.

Our surplus is far more in services whereas the EU's is in goods.

[LeadBelly]

I've been having a quick scan of the German online press, especially sites which allow readers' comments (which I know aren't representative)
As an example Die Welt (linked), in the Kommentare (comments) at the foot, if you look at Beliebteste (most popular); you see the highest ones saying things like "How envious I am of Brits having T May". Ive also seen a lot of comments in the last few days expressing real worries about how far Merkel (& thus Germany) is distance from the (nearly) new US President.
Many Germans despise the EU bureaucrats as much as Farage does and think the EU has gone badly astray.
Unfortunately there is still a lot of lingering loyalty to Merkel, it seems a German weakness to be over-loyal to its leaders (not a trait we Brits necessarily share (eg Thatcher being "backstabbed", Blair being derided etc).

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/art ... isten.html

[claretandy]

The EU will bend over backwards to keep up us in the single market, the Leave campaigners once claimed.

At least May has now accepted what the EU and others have been saying all along; that full access to the single market requires the acceptance of the 4 freedoms of movement.

Now, I'd prefer that she'd seen sense by this point and realised that we're better off accepting those freedoms, but no. She's in full scale UKIP mode now, and nothing is going to stop her from trashing her own country's economy in order to please the anti-immigration mob.

It looks like we hate foreigners more than we like a strong economy. Which is a shame.

Another remoaner snowflake crying cause he didn't get his own way

[CrosspoolClarets]

Fantastic so far - exactly what I was hoping for when voting out.

The things I particularly liked in the last couple of days were the desire to negotiate elements of, but not remain in, the customs union. Also, the subtle use of our intelligence as a negotiating ploy, and having Hammond threaten them with us being a tax haven (which will particularly rattle the Irish and get them to push for a good deal for us, in return for us agreeing to a certain level of Corporation Tax in line with the EU). Finally I liked that we clearly arranged for Trump to go all pro UK and anti EU 2 days before her speech.

The EU residents will be queueing up to come, as before. That will throw out the whole Remain economic model, and I'm confident that what the real GDP drop is, things like the US deal will plug the gap. Maybe a sector or two will suffer but you don't make an omelette without breaking eggs unfortunately. It won't affect the general taxpayer that's for sure.

Of course she has to deliver for me to be happy with the outcome. That won't be known for some time.

[Bin Ont Turf]

I've been having a quick scan of the German online press, especially sites which allow readers' comments (which I know aren't representative)
As an example Die Welt (linked), in the Kommentare (comments) at the foot, if you look at Beliebteste (most popular); you see the highest ones saying things like "How envious I am of Brits having T May". Ive also seen a lot of comments in the last few days expressing real worries about how far Merkel (& thus Germany) is distance from the (nearly) new US President.
Many Germans despise the EU bureaucrats as much as Farage does and think the EU has gone badly astray.
Unfortunately there is still a lot of lingering loyalty to Merkel, it seems a German weakness to be over-loyal to its leaders (not a trait we Brits necessarily share (eg Thatcher being "backstabbed", Blair being derided etc).

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/art ... isten.html

I've learned from the comments that the Germans say 'to pick raisins' and we say 'to cherry pick'.

Splendid.

[summitclaret]

Like many I happen to believe that our ecomomy will be better in the long run distanced from the failing euro and one size fits all nonsense of the EU.

I also believe that this country will be safer, stronger and more united when it can itself decide the law and who comes here in the future to live/work, whilst ensuring that our infrastructure and facilities etc. can be planned properly.

[RingoMcCartney]

Like many I happen to believe that our ecomomy will be better in the long run distanced from the failing euro and one size fits all nonsense of the EU.

I also believe that this country will be safer, stronger and more united when it can itself decide the law and who comes here in the future to live/work, whilst ensuring that our infrastructure and facilities etc. can be planned properly.

You can have a welfare state.

You can have mass uncontrolled immigration.

You CANNOT have both......

[aggi]

You can have a welfare state.

You can have mass uncontrolled immigration.

You CANNOT have both......

Indeed. If you have an ageing population (the recipients of most of the welfare) what you don't want is immigrants coming into the country, being net contributors to the economy and then heading off home when they get old. That definitely won't help.

[Imploding Turtle]

So it's a hard Brexit we're going for.

WCGW?

[RocketLawnChair]

^^^^^^^^
FFS

[claretdom]

When is the gutless SNP holding the promised vote bitterturtle

[claretandy]

It's the full english brexit, exactly what i and many others voted for, now it will be put to the test against the remoaner doom-monger predictions, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

[Wilsdenclaret]

My Danish in laws are laughing their cocks off at us

[JohnMcGreal]

My Danish in laws are laughing their cocks off at us

Choose from the following:

Remoaner
Snowflake
Drama Queen
Doom-monger
STOP TALKING BRITAIN DOWN!

[RocketLawnChair]

My Danish in laws are laughing their cocks off at us

Denmark hasn't got right much too crow about, the weather is appalling, the taxes are the highest in the world, the cost of living is ridiculous, the languages are impenetrable, the food is crap for the most part and, increasingly, Denmark are making it very clear they would prefer foreigners to stay away.

Oh and does your mother in law have a cock ?

[claretdom]

Is it normal for a Danish mother in law to laugh her cock off ?

[aggi]

You're right in your sarcasm. You're not answering the point because it was about "uncontrolled" migration. But I'm sure you feel better for letting us know your view on something other than Ringo's point.

I assumed, as it was in the middle of a discussion about the UK and the EU, that Ringo was referring to the current "uncontrolled" migration from the EU where, taken as whole, migrants are net contributors to the economy and tend not to stay here for retirement.

I guess he could have just been quoting someone who was talking about the EU and the UK but making a totally unrelated point on his views on immigration and the welfare state. (Although if that's how it works then why would you think I was referring to Ringo's point?)

[Wilsdenclaret]

Quite normal and yes Tom very tempting, only staying for the football and the fact that my wife employs several English folk who we don'[t want to let down. The weather is virtually the same as ours summers a bit hotter, taxes are only proportionate to your income and the cost of living is about the same as here. A farmhouse with five bedrooms and a few acres costs about 160K. The food is amazing and their NHS is thriving fuelled by years of centre led liberal snowflake politics. It is voted the happiest nation in the world, child care is guaranteed cheap and affordable...........no there's nothing for us to learn from another EU country.........good job the footballs going well

[Wilsdenclaret]

Denmark hasn't got right much too crow about, the weather is appalling, the taxes are the highest in the world, the cost of living is ridiculous, the languages are impenetrable, the food is crap for the most part and, increasingly, Denmark are making it very clear they would prefer foreigners to stay away.

Oh and does your mother in law have a cock ?

No, she's dead

[Imploding Turtle]

When is the gutless SNP holding the promised vote bitterturtle

What promised vote? I think you're making things up.

I stand corrected if you can find them "promising" another vote.

[Wilsdenclaret]

Denmark hasn't got right much too crow about, the weather is appalling, the taxes are the highest in the world, the cost of living is ridiculous, the languages are impenetrable, the food is crap for the most part and, increasingly, Denmark are making it very clear they would prefer foreigners to stay away.

Oh and does your mother in law have a cock ?

Oh I forgot, the average working week in DK is 34 hours and it is frowned upon to work longer than that and there are 11 bank holidays on top. Beer works out at about 33p a bottle, halal meat has severe restrictions on it and migrants are required to learn Danish and fully integrate so this can be imposed even within the EU framework. The Danes have maintained a distinct culture but have fully embraced the EU...........on the downside handball is a weird sport and they are currently about as crap at football as the England team UTC

[RocketLawnChair]

Oh I forgot, the average working week in DK is 34 hours and it is frowned upon to work longer than that and there are 11 bank holidays on top. Beer works out at about 33p a bottle, halal meat has severe restrictions on it and migrants are required to learn Danish and fully integrate so this can be imposed even within the EU framework. The Danes have maintained a distinct culture but have fully embraced the EU...........on the downside handball is a weird sport and they are currently about as crap at football as the England team UTC

I don't drink

[Imploding Turtle]

I don't drink

You're going to want to start.

[aggi]

I agree broadly with your facts although the current wave of immigration from accession states started in 2000ish so I'd love to know who knows where they'll spend their retirement unless all those Polish construction workers were in their mid-60s when they arrived.

That is true, I was basing it on current numbers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/38534958" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Although arguably they are more retirement friendly countries.

[RocketLawnChair]

You're going to want to start.

I've heard drinking is overrated, apparently if you drink too much you keep googling things from the Guardian and then copy and paste them onto football message boards

[Imploding Turtle]

I've heard drinking is overrated, apparently if you drink too much you keep googling things from the Guardian and then copy and paste them onto football message boards

I can't remember the last time I used The Guardian as a source.

[RocketLawnChair]

I can't remember the last time I used The Guardian as a source.

Hang on just let me trawl through thread after thread just to prove my point. **** it who cares

[AndrewJB]

I'll use the Guardian now:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... er-britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The views of Giles Fraser are interesting, as he highlights what ordinary people might want to keep in mind.

[Imploding Turtle]

Hang on just let me trawl through thread after thread just to prove my point. **** it who cares

Or you could just not make things up.

[Gnulty]

Everything will be ok fellow europeans and Clarets..A win for Burnley tonight and a draw against the EU...

[RingoMcCartney]

Hang on just let me trawl through thread after thread just to prove my point. **** it who cares

If you drink too much you keep googling things from the Guardian and then copy and paste them onto football message boards.

If you REALLY drink too much you keep googling things from the Guardian and then copy and paste them onto football message boards.

And forget you ever did it.......

[bf2k]

Quite normal and yes Tom very tempting, only staying for the football and the fact that my wife employs several English folk who we don'[t want to let down. The weather is virtually the same as ours summers a bit hotter, taxes are only proportionate to your income and the cost of living is about the same as here. A farmhouse with five bedrooms and a few acres costs about 160K. The food is amazing and their NHS is thriving fuelled by years of centre led liberal snowflake politics. It is voted the happiest nation in the world, child care is guaranteed cheap and affordable...........no there's nothing for us to learn from another EU country.........good job the footballs going well

Having very recently spent 9 months living/working in Denmark I disagree with your evaluation of the country.

Income tax is proportional to wages but VAT isn't, 25%
The weather is awful. I've never seen horizontal freezing rain before outside of northern Scotland
Cost of living is far more expense than the UK. Food & drink is around 20% more expensive. Fuel, however, is cheaper.
The labour laws are so restrictive it makes it hard for anyone but the Danish to work.
Everything closes stupidly early. Bars are full of smoke and serve crappy larger based drinks.
The doctors were fantastic. I was lead to believe the Danish "NHS" is partly private. Most have medical insurance. I'm all in favour of that in the UK as I believe as a country we've out grown the NHS.

On the whole I wouldn't move to Denmark if you paid me a Chinese footballers salary.

[IanMcL]

We're doomed!

[LeadBelly]

"We're doomed!"

Don't panic, they don't like it up em you know.

[ngsobob]

Perhaps Mayhem might have this thread brought to her attention and reconsider her claim that the British people, all 65m, have come together and want to leave the EU. Delusional woman.

[Lancasterclaret]

Her actual speech is only a "starter for 10" in the negotiations, and its very heavily weighted for domestic consumption.

I don't think TM thinks she will get all that, but at least we know what we are aiming for.

[nil_desperandum]

Her actual speech is only a "starter for 10" in the negotiations, and its very heavily weighted for domestic consumption.

I don't think TM thinks she will get all that, but at least we know what we are aiming for.

Lancaster sums it up.
It's a speech that had to be made and is entirely what you would expect her to say. If she doesn't set out bold ambitious goals and a vision for the future then we are doomed before we start.
If she achieves all that she has set out to do, then Brexit may indeed be a success. The problem is, that she has to get 27 other countries to agree to her ideas, and it should be obvious to anyone whose done even the slightest bit of research that that isn't going to happen. She's bright enough to understand this I'm sure.
Let's suppose that another country - say The Netherlands, had voted for "Nexit" and we were still a full fee-paying member to the EU. If the Dutch PM came out with a speech making all the demands that May did yesterday, and adding not too thinly veiled threats about consequences of not getting their own way, how do you think our tabloid press would react?

[Imploding Turtle]

Lancaster sums it up.
It's a speech that had to be made and is entirely what you would expect her to say. If she doesn't set out bold ambitious goals and a vision for the future then we are doomed before we start.
If she achieves all that she has set out to do, then Brexit may indeed be a success. The problem is, that she has to get 27 other countries to agree to her ideas, and it should be obvious to anyone whose done even the slightest bit of research that that isn't going to happen. She's bright enough to understand this I'm sure.
Let's suppose that another country - say The Netherlands, had voted for "Nexit" and we were still a full fee-paying member to the EU. If the Dutch PM came out with a speech making all the demands that May did yesterday, and adding not too thinly veiled threats about consequences of not getting their own way, how do you think our tabloid press would react?

WHY DO YOU HATE BRITAIN?

[brexit]

The issue with this messageboard is that the majority of the posters have never had girlfriends (or in some cases boyfriends).
Those of us who have had relationships understand what breakups are like.
First the period of realisation - one party is happy with the outcome the other is in denial , sniffing pillows hoping that the other party will change there mind.
Second period of anger - slag of the other party and forecast the future will be bleak. Friends play both sides off against the other.
Third period of negotiation - who has the cat, the signed Limahl album and the friends. The best course here is to say you want a clean start and maybe still bang the sister-in-law. Other party seems to have got everything but when they think about it need something from you i.e.how the Tivo box work they come crawling
Fourth period - separate lives, move on both parties happy bumo into each other at local dogging spots - usually walking the dogs in Heasonford.

At the end of the day Brexit is a divorce in 2 years time we won't part of the EU. We are the biggest export market for German cars so do you think they will be happy that no Audi's will sold in Nelson?
We have a £70 Billion trade deficit with the EU which means if the EU does not want a trade deal with us they lose £70 Billion a year. We export more to the rest of the world than the EU https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

[HatfieldClaret]

Just watched PMQs (rare day off midweek).

Begs the question; What is the point of Jeremy Corbyn ? Protesting for protestings sake. Offers nothing to the solutions but just criticises because that's what he thinks he has to do. Doesn't seem to understand that there will be access to the single market but the terms of that access has to be negotiated.

[Imploding Turtle]

We have a £70 Billion trade deficit with the EU which means if the EU does not want a trade deal with us they lose £70 Billion a year. We export more to the rest of the world than the EU https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

The facts get less friendly to the pro-brexit argument if you use percentages.

Although fewer of our exports are now going to other EU countries, these exports are still just as important to our economy.

The £220 billion exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth about 12% of the value of the British economy in 2015, and £230 billion or 13% in 2014. It’s stayed at around 13-15% over the past decade.

Exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about 3-4% of the size of the remaining EU’s economy in 2014. The exact number depends on whether you use the £290 billion figure from UK data, or £360 billion from EU data. There aren’t complete figures available in the EU data for 2015.

[aggi]

Opinion seems split comparing British and German newspapers

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c1.JPG (56.99 KiB) Viewed 3437 times

Most worryingly though, the Sun says "Brexit vision ... is so close to ours we couldn't have written it any better"

[HatfieldClaret]

Wouldn't worry too much what the Sun claims credit for.

[quoonbeatz]

Just watched PMQs (rare day off midweek).

Begs the question; What is the point of Jeremy Corbyn ?

whats the point of PMQs anyway? its just a load of insincere platitudes and really weak 'banter'.

no proper answers to questions are ever given.

may and corbyn are as crap as each other.

[nil_desperandum]

Just one point brexit, and that is to remind you that the 70 billion a year is with the EU as a bloc, not each individual nation state.
It's not quite as simple as to say divide 70 billion by 27, but clearly non of the countries will lose anywhere near 70 billion , in what in any case is a market worth trillions. Some of the 27 won't be worried at all about this figure because it won't impact on them at all. Other countries like Germany would take a hit, (about 27 billion according to the stats that you provide), but, bear in mind they were quite prepared to do so over Greece, and in any case, it won't matter what the Germans want if they can't persuade all the other states to agree.
I genuinely hope that Mrs May's team can pull this off, and she has quite rightly set the bar high, but I'm not optimistic. What would be in it for the dozen or so states who are net importers from the UK or are pretty much neutral?

[HatfieldClaret]

whats the point of PMQs anyway? its just a load of insincere platitudes and really weak 'banter'.

no proper answers to questions are ever given.

may and corbyn are as crap as each other.

There is a point to PMQs; whether the opportunity has been properly seized over the years is another matter.

The PM will just do their best to bat off the questions, but if the leader of the opposition just asks poorly researched vague questions and fails to go in for the kill, then the PM's task is rather easier than it ought to be.

[quoonbeatz]

its not to do with the opposition though, its the same with any question. the format is thus:

MP asks question
PM gives non answer, unchallenged
Next question

been like that for years and is now massively outdated. an absolute waste of an hour.