Trump Inauguration

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:54 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:They have chosen hate because hate is a faith to them; at the outset they have chosen to devaluate words and reasons. How entirely at ease they feel as a result. How futile and frivolous discussions appear to them. If out of courtesy they consent for a moment to defend their point of view, they lend themselves but do not give themselves. They try simply to project their intuitive certainty onto the plane of discourse.

Never believe that they are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The ____ have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors.

They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. If then, as we have been able to observe, the ____ is impervious to reason and to experience, it is not because his conviction is strong. Rather his conviction is strong because he has chosen first of all to be impervious.

The thing is though Charlie, I neither hate Obama, or care much for Trump.
It's a certain section of people who are getting into a massive hissy fit about all of this, while the rest of the world laughs

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:20 am

Damo wrote:Hahahaha

Did you see the video of this? It is bloody hilarious, she has a little peep at the camera to make sure it's on her before the declaration sent her into little snowflake spasms of.....I can't even find the words for it.

It goes to prove that protesters of Trump are an embarrassment.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:51 am

NRC wrote:For what it's worth lads and lasses, my Clinton-disciple, cum Che Guevara-type democratic revolutionary wife (and she hasn't yet recognized the oxymoron in that description) is making me sleep in the guest bedroom because I had the audacity to recognize Trump's speech as underlining succinctly everything he stood for on the campaign trail, regardless of whether you go for it or not. And to allow this buffoon, yet democratically elected, get on with his term in office.

She laments all the "stuff" already taken off the whitehouse website, and when I went to go look there it is again, succinctly, his manifesto. When I pointed out he was entitled i think she might have said I was banished tomorrow night too!

So he campaigned on an 18 point plan I think. There are a couple of things he has kind of let slide away for now.

He is now going to do what he said, thats a novelty for a politition, but wait he isnt one really. I hope he is good for America and Americans.

I have read up and watched a couple of videos on obamacare. On the face of it sounds good but I can see the burden on small busoinesses. Problem is from over here I cannot judge what it works like for the people. He says he will replace it with something else, lets see what that looks like.

He says he will rebuild the military and reverse cuts, I honestly think we have gone too far cutting our military. So more jobs

He is going have designed and built a new missile defence system. More jobs created.

I do disagree with his view on climate change.

I am not sure what people find so alarming about this.

He is going to do what he said, perhaps thats the scary part because normally they make promises and then do nothing.

I mean look at the Brexit campainers, they looked truely scared whenn they won. What did they donthrough the whole campain, they lied. Hes Trump done that???
Credit to May she is doing what we voted for, the EU will be very scared the second biggest contributer is about to walk away completely.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:02 am

And as predicted, the extreme left start to riot as soon as it gets dark, as ususal.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-21/w ... cy/8199916" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Guy getting interviewed gets sucker punched on camera.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... uguration/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://bluelivesmatter.blue/washingtion ... scalating/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/757 ... march-riot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Was it IT who said earlier before the result that if Trump wins, liberals will be sad, where as if Hillary wins, Trump supporters will get violent?

Honestly, its these people that to a large extent, make me vote and think the way I do.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:14 am

Spiral wrote:I presume you heard his inauguration speech?

There's a part of me that strongly advocates republicanism, mainly borne of my sort of existentialist-informed worldview; but the older I get, the more I am coming to accept that the Monarchy is the only thing that could potentially save this country from itself.

Now the interesting part. Does a pro-Trump/UKIP, conservative/Alt-right faux-anarchist argue against the Monarchy, (the anti-elitist, anti-establishment stance assumes they would, right?), thus entering Jeremy Corbyn-territory; or does he/she find a way to agree with me, the increasingly pro-Monarch PC bleeding-heart liberal? Awkward dichotomy, there. Quite a pang to endure either way, I imagine. Who's got the balls to speak up?

For the first time I did watch it yes.

For what its worth there isnt a Party I want to vote for right now. Somewhere theres a middle ground, I dont like extremism of any kind. Be that the gulf between rich and poor. Right and left wing.
Somewhere some how there must be a balance. I dont like free movement, but I certainly dont want no movement, an element of control would be good.
Human rights appear only to protect those who do wrong and not protect the innocent, how did get that so wrong. It appears a person can beat and rape someone in their own home and they appear to have more rights than the victim. Its just not fair or right.
I hate to see people sleeping rough, mainly older men round here.
balance is what I think we need. not in the communist sense where everyone is the same, thats just another extremism.
But a lowering (not sure that is right choice of word) of the extremes if that makes sense.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:06 am

Agree with you there Lowbank

Unfortunately Trump is a man of extremes

He has a complete an utter lack of tolerance or empathy.

He is fuelled by greed and by power and by money. Whether it's his need to dominate women or his need to dominate little towns in Scotland where he was going to build his golf course whatever anyone said (by paying off local people to betray their communities)

Yesterday's speech was all about America being number one - you might want to compare it to some of the speeches made in certain parts of Europe in the early 1930s !

The ignorance and lack of intelligence of the everyday American has got him in power - together with the economic hardship some of them are feeling. Trump played on that and Clinton ran an awful campaign - Trump got lucky but his luck will run out soon.

You can't live the life Trump has and do the things he has done and expect to get away with it - he should enjoy the next couple of weeks because after that things will implode sooner or later.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:31 am

You want to compare it to Hitler?
Wow.

The Yanks have always been about making America number 1, or the best, it isn't unique to Trump, hes just emphasizing the point a bit more then the others.

If the Yanks decide to stop invading everywhere that suits their needs then maybe the world will be a better place.
He's banging on about protecting US jobs etc, that's what most people want to hear, China do it all the time but they don't shout about it.

British people wouldn't mind something similar at times.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:40 am

A lot of people I know and meet just want to go to work, look after their family. Feel safe and just live in peace. Yes they aspire to have more as well. thats important. Its not asking for much is it.

I get people are trying to draw comparison with speeches in the Thirties but the big difference he is not pointing the blame at a particular race or creed or colour.

I dont agree things wil implode either, thats the same as the predicted apocalypse post brexit.

Had they chosen anyone other than Clinton, I also thing he would have lost.

I will watch with interest, if unemployment drops noticably, he may get more popular, who knows what the future will bring.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:41 am

Sidney1st wrote:You want to compare it to Hitler?
Wow.

The Yanks have always been about making America number 1, or the best, it isn't unique to Trump, hes just emphasizing the point a bit more then the others.

If the Yanks decide to stop invading everywhere that suits their needs then maybe the world will be a better place.
He's banging on about protecting US jobs etc, that's what most people want to hear, China do it all the time but they don't shout about it.

British people wouldn't mind something similar at times.

I agree with everything you said

Zugunruhe · Post by **Zugunruhe** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:57 am

Trump doesn't look very healthy. Being overweight and too much Tango isn't great for longevity - especially for a 70 year old.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:21 pm

Lowbank - When you say he's not pointing the finger at a particular race or religion have you conveniently forgotten what he said about Muslims or Mexicans etc ?

Clearly the comparison to the 1930s does not extend to invading and taking over the world - the comparisons are in relation to the nationalism.

Look at the marginalisation he is already doing to minority groups - ring any bells

And by the way arguing that he is doing the same as what China do is not a good thing !

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:25 pm

On muslims, was he not talking about extremists, not all musims. Or have i got that wrong.

On Mexicans, I think he was talking sbout the drugs and crime again not Mexicans as a whole. please correct me or pont me in the direction of more detailed info on what he said. always willing to read and learn and change my view.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:33 pm

Right_winger wrote:Love how all these daft liberals are going nuts when democracy doesn't work in their favour.

Globalists and the Left truly believe that democracy is simply something that's rammed down other people's throats.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:42 pm

So you think he's going to just build the wall around the Mexican drug dealers houses ?

There are plenty of things you can read on what Trump has said about Muslims - if you think that he's just been talking about extremists then you are wrong.

Muslim and Mexicans were just 2 examples by the way - gays, lesbians, women....it's a long list.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:43 pm

I wonder what his views on rape are? I'd guess his public and private opinion are somewhat different.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:46 pm

In the long list of things he could be impeached for that is bookies favourite

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:10 pm

So does your take on it include the building of concentration camps where he is going to exterminate all the groups you have listed.

lets give him some time to bed in and see how it goes. his views on certain groups may not turn into persecution of them, well at I hope it does not.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:22 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Globalists and the Left truly believe that democracy is simply something that's rammed down other people's throats.

They are all for it when it goes their way but like anything else when they dislike it, they whinge and moan and riot.

I'm loving brexit and Trump, seeing these types of people losing their minds. Brilliant.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:32 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:So does your take on it include the building of concentration camps where he is going to exterminate all the groups you have listed.

lets give him some time to bed in and see how it goes. his views on certain groups may not turn into persecution of them, well at I hope it does not.

No they don't - and pretty sure you know that.

So let's flip this and you answer me whether you are in favour of the marginalisation and discrimination of groups based on their country of origin, their religion, their sexual orientation etc ?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:32 pm

Thing is, you don't start with concentration camps, you start with demonising a certain race or religion, and then it can (not always) lead to worse.

No one is going to argue with his idea that he wants to eliminate Islamic terrorism (apart from old Blue Lab!) but he's going to have to come up with a way of doing it that doesn't alienate moderate muslims.

That won't sit well with his core support.

And thats just one part of his foreign policy.

And thats before you even start on his domestic policies, and how divisive they are.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:34 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:And as predicted, the extreme left start to riot as soon as it gets dark, as ususal.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-21/w ... cy/8199916" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Guy getting interviewed gets sucker punched on camera.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... uguration/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://bluelivesmatter.blue/washingtion ... scalating/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/757 ... march-riot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Was it IT who said earlier before the result that if Trump wins, liberals will be sad, where as if Hillary wins, Trump supporters will get violent?

Honestly, its these people that to a large extent, make me vote and think the way I do.

Black bloc anarchists are not left-wing, nor are they protesting. The right-wing might like to call these people anti-Trump, but they'd be there getting violent no matter what was being protested.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:42 pm

Lancasterclaret

No one is going to argue with his idea that he wants to eliminate Islamic terrorism (apart from old Blue Lab!).....

WTF are you on about. Please explain.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:42 pm

TVC15 wrote:No they don't - and pretty sure you know that.

So let's flip this and you answer me whether you are in favour of the marginalisation and discrimination of groups based on their country of origin, their religion, their sexual orientation etc ?

Absolutely NOT.

I hope I had made that clear earlier but perhaps not

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:57 pm

So you seriously don't think Trump is going to do this ?

He already has and he's only just started.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:00 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote: Human rights appear only to protect those who do wrong and not protect the innocent, how did get that so wrong. It appears a person can beat and rape someone in their own home and they appear to have more rights than the victim. Its just not fair or right.

Jesus Christ, do people actually believe this? Are we really this stupid?

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:04 pm

I see these UK protest marchers have the anti abortion laws in Ireland and the Brexit vote on their agenda.

I must have been asleep and missed the bit where Donald Trump became responsible for this.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:12 pm

JohnMac wrote:I see these UK protest marchers have the anti abortion laws in Ireland and the Brexit vote on their agenda.

I must have been asleep and missed the bit where Donald Trump became responsible for this.

The pictures i've seen from the marching shows the overwhelming majority of them are protesting Trump and his bigotry.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:29 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The pictures i've seen from the marching shows the overwhelming majority of them are protesting Trump and his bigotry.

Not been watching to be fair, just some qoutes I read about on the BBC news.

Saw the Bigotry mentioned as well as race and religion, I get that but not the UK and Ireland specifics.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:31 pm

I have read his first day policy statements.
There is nothing in there about minority groups.
To be honest it all sounds fairly good for Americans. Apart from obamacare unless what he puts in place is still acceptable but perhaps with less burden

: IMG_0177.PNG (446.94 KiB) Viewed 3657 times

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:57 pm

Yep its a major surprise that he did not put in his policy statements that he was going to discriminate against Muslims, Mexicans, Gays, Lesbians, Women etc....i thought there was going to be a picture of a muslim with a big bomb with a cross through it or maybe a mexican with a massive sombrero with an arrow pointing back to Mexico.

What was I thinking ?!!!

He has however already changed the White House website and upset a number of people.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:03 pm

Putting aside the weasel words, empowering the police as a policy is ostensibly sound. Everyone wants a strong police force. The issue is that the 'policy idea', for lack of a better description, is at best, tone-deaf, at worst, a whitewashing of the causes of currently tense race relations in the States.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:13 pm

Look at this unempowered police force. Poor mites.

Spiral wrote:Putting aside the weasel words, empowering the police as a policy is ostensibly sound. Everyone wants a strong police force. The issue is that the 'policy idea', for lack of a better description, is at best, tone-deaf, at worst, a whitewashing of the causes of currently tense race relations in the States.

Don't you know it's all Obama's fault? He's the reason there's a race relations problem in the U.S. It has nothing to do with the laws disproportionately punishing black people, it's because Obama once talked about how Treyvon Martin might have looked like his son had he had one.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:17 pm

TVC15 wrote:Yep its a major surprise that he did not put in his policy statements that he was going to discriminate against Muslims, Mexicans, Gays, Lesbians, Women etc....i thought there was going to be a picture of a muslim with a big bomb with a cross through it or maybe a mexican with a massive sombrero with an arrow pointing back to Mexico.

What was I thinking ?!!!

He has however already changed the White House website and upset a number of people.

Most of what people are complaining about with regards to the changes to the White House website aren't anything to do with Trump or his transition team.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:37 pm

Seriously large amount of videos on my newsfeed of Trump supporters bloodied and beaten by these ambassadors of peace and tolerance.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:50 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Most of what people are complaining about with regards to the changes to the White House website aren't anything to do with Trump or his transition team.

Really ?

So the page on climate change disappearing in the last few hours is just co-incidence ?

You seriously think that Trump and his team are not behind the website changes ? Wow.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Whether for Trump, against him, or waiting to see, I think the question should be asked as to whether a sexist, brash New York bully is better than a warmonger.

We have had plenty of the latter, but the left wing media seem to be going after Trump like the most dangerous leader since, well, forever. It seems to me to be very dim considering some of the things we have witnessed in the last 20 years. I'm all for being offended about comments from Trump about grabbing women where they don't want grabbing, that's fair, but how does it compare to killing hundreds of thousands of innocent foreign people with your army? Or alternately indirectly killing loads of one's own citizens by policies on cigarettes, guns, drugs etc?

Articles like in the Guardian today suggesting lights are going out all over America, should consider the above and wait to see how he does.

Clareting · Post by **Clareting** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:09 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRYSPdeSu0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:23 pm

Spiral wrote:Paul Waine, no offence, pal, but virtually everything you post reads like a pre-programmed script read by a synthetic from the Alien films. **** all in the way of insight or personal opinion; just endless analysis.

Hi Spiral, no offence taken.

I'm not sure about the "pre-programmed..."

My insight: too many are stuck in their own political positions. If I support Corbyn then everything anyone else does is wrong. If I support Trump, similarly, everything anyone else does is wrong. Leave/remain - very few engage with the facts and the arguments - though some do.

Lot's of guys posting on here "get personal." I try to avoid that sort of stuff. Most of us don't know each other, we don't no each others backgrounds or anything that is important (yes, occasionally some share some personal details, but I'm not great at remembering those things. We need faces, "real names" and things like that to really know each other well. How can we "get personal" in that situation?

So, yes, I try to stick to facts and analysis/interpretation of those facts (and a few questions to those that take a different approach). I know the facts can get in the way of a good argument.... It may be that there's a vacancy or two in "social media" in that area.

We're all Clarets (well, nearly..) and that's good.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:41 pm

Spiral wrote:Putting aside the weasel words, empowering the police as a policy is ostensibly sound. Everyone wants a strong police force. The issue is that the 'policy idea', for lack of a better description, is at best, tone-deaf, at worst, a whitewashing of the causes of currently tense race relations in the States.

Hi Spiral, I don't want a "strong police force" - I want an intelligent police force. I want a police force that works for society and doesn't get things wrong.

I guess you've seen the reports of a Bristol police office tazering a guy in his 60s just because he wouldn't give his name.

I guess you've seen reports/videos of US police shooting people.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:48 pm

TVC15 wrote:Really ?

So the page on climate change disappearing in the last few hours is just co-incidence ?

You seriously think that Trump and his team are not behind the website changes ? Wow.

Yes.

http://www.snopes.com/white-house-web-s ... p-changes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:51 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Yeah, it's great when the 'little people' rebel against the establishment by voting for even richer and more dubious crooks than before. That'll show em!

Didn't say it was good, but they did.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:52 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Spiral, I don't want a "strong police force" - I want an intelligent police force. I want a police force that works for society and doesn't get things wrong.

I guess you've seen the reports of a Bristol police office tazering a guy in his 60s just because he wouldn't give his name.

I guess you've seen reports/videos of US police shooting people.

Problem the police have is they're pre programmed to think that certain sections of society are up to no good, even before they join the police.
Those sections of society probably don't help themselves though, but they don't see that they should.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:09 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Seriously large amount of videos on my newsfeed of Trump supporters bloodied and beaten by these ambassadors of peace and tolerance.

How am i supposed to know if a) you're telling the truth, and b) your newsfeed isn't fully of false stories?

You know what to do.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:14 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:How am i supposed to know if a) you're telling the truth, and b) your newsfeed isn't fully of false stories?

You know what to do.

They are videos, not pictures, videos.

I'll post them when I get home from work and get on a laptop not a phone

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:16 pm

Bloody hell.

Democracy has really outed the anti Democrats and shown them for what they are hasn't it!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:18 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Bloody hell.

Democracy has really outed the anti Democrats and shown them for what they are hasn't it!

Over here or over there?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:23 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Over here or over there?

As a certain Mr McCartney said,"here, there and everywhere."

https://youtu.be/HMAf4Uq9mrs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NCClaret · Post by **NCClaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:25 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Problem the police have is they're pre programmed to think that certain sections of society are up to no good, even before they join the police. Those sections of society probably don't help themselves though, but they don't see that they should.

I'm not sure what you mean by or makes you think those in the Police are 'pre-programmed' before they join. The problem with much of how Policing manifests itself today is that the art of being sceptical, suspicious and indeed somewhat cynical of people's motives, once the bedrock of solid Policing, is taken away by the need to conform to Equal opportunities, political correctness and objective driven measures. Policing is in great part ideologically driven by the prevailing political agenda and far removed from that of the oath of 'protecting life and property and preventing crime'.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:31 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Problem the police have is they're pre programmed to think that certain sections of society are up to no good, even before they join the police.
Those sections of society probably don't help themselves though, but they don't see that they should.

Hi Sidney,

If the police are recruiting people who are pre-programmed in the way you describe shouldn't they look at who they are recruiting as well as provide training that eliminates these "inappropriate" police actions?

I've got a lot of support for good police, btw. My concern is with those who don't make good decisions when they are interacting with the public.

NCClaret · Post by **NCClaret** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:45 pm

Paul Waine wrote: My concern is with those who don't make good decisions when they are interacting with the public.

Decisions in Policing, particularly around sensitive or life and death matters are on a knife edge. What is a good or bad decision?? My concern is how the Police are treated, internally and externally, when their actions, often having to be made in what can literally be a split second, appear to violate a politically/socially driven ideologue. We need to take this into account before we accuse or point the finger - Policing is not an exact science, determined by a policy.