Punching Nazis..

[Damo]

Thats because they're not. They're left wing extremists, sure, but nothing about them is liberal.

Not much of the left is liberal these days

[PJDM]

It will always be ok to punch this guy. He shouldn't be able to feel comfortable walking down the street. Also, thinking it's ok to punch a Nazi or prevent them from spreading hate is in no way a moral equivalent to being an actual Nazi.

[ClaretMoffitt]

It will always be ok to punch this guy. He shouldn't be able to feel comfortable walking down the street. Also, thinking it's ok to punch a Nazi or prevent them from spreading hate is in no way a moral equivalent to being an actual Nazi.

Lets be clear here, he is a white supremacist, not a Nazi.

He doesn't gas jews or murder disabled people, he doesn't invade peaceful countries and kill anyone who descents him.

He's just some ****, with a global following of about 10,000 people at most, with moronic, irrelevant views about why his skin is better than other peoples skin.

[bluelabrador16]

An interesting watch:

Marion Le Pen attacks feminist hypocrisy in 3 minute speech ( English subtitles)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmhFLUesQBs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=146817" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"...Feminism had been reduced to “sexism in grammar, a pink toy in a happy meal”,  Maréchal-Le Pen said, adding that feminists had “lost the plot” on real threats.The real threats, she said, were issues like the migrant sex assault in Cologne on New Year’s Eve 2015/2016 and Islamic law which she said was “being enforced in some of France’s districts”.

She slammed feminists’ views of the “patriarchy” and their placing blame on “heterosexual white men”......"

Comments:

Sevenhills
"What a beautiful, independent, open-minded woman.Not like the virtue-signaling, emotionally unstable feminists who wake up in the morning and think "How can i be professional victim today ?"

Zena Fanom
Bravo Marion Le Pen. And look at the faces of those feminists . Dumbstuck, with stupid on every line, every wrinkle, every grimace.

afelias
Holy shxt, Marion Le Pen is a better feminist than those feminists. I have no idea of French politics or even heard of either Le Pen speak before, but it looks like they know their stuff and can present their case.

[Imploding Turtle]

Not much of the left is liberal these days

Make up your mind because a little earlier in this thread you seemed to think that everyone on the left were the "liberal left" when you included people who were obviously not liberal. Now you're saying not many of them are.

[Imploding Turtle]

Lets be clear here, he is a white supremacist, not a Nazi.

He doesn't gas jews or murder disabled people, he doesn't invade peaceful countries and kill anyone who descents him.

He's just some ****, with a global following of about 10,000 people at most, with moronic, irrelevant views about why his skin is better than other peoples skin.

You don't have to gas people to be a Nazi. In fact most Nazis never killed anyone.

[Lancasterclaret]

"I'm a Nazi, but its ok, I've never worked in a concentration camp, so I really just a teeny weeny bit to the right of you"

[Damo]

Make up your mind because a little earlier in this thread you seemed to think that everyone on the left were the "liberal left" when you included people who were obviously not liberal. Now you're saying not many of them are.

That was my point.
The left isn't liberal.
The left is bigoted.
The cowards in the masks aren't extremists.
The hold exactly the same narrow minded views as the 'liberal' left

[morpheus2]

You don't have to gas people to be a Nazi. In fact most Nazis never killed anyone.

I agree, we shouldn't lump all Nazis in with the bad ones, it's just a tiny minority of extremists.

I have some Nazi neighbours, they're really nice, they go to church and do charity stuff and everything, I guess it's down to a persons own personal view or interpretation of Nazism really.

[Imploding Turtle]

That was my point.
The left isn't liberal.
The left is bigoted.
The cowards in the masks aren't extremists.
The hold exactly the same narrow minded views as the 'liberal' left

You're honestly going to call an entire political wing "bigoted", cowards in masks disrupting peaceful protests "not extremists" and then you complain about the liberal left being narrow-minded even though you know the people you're talking about aren't liberal. What the actual ****?

I'd ask you how your mind works but I'm not sure it does.

[Imploding Turtle]

I agree, we shouldn't lump all Nazis in with the bad ones, it's just a tiny minority of extremists.

I have some Nazi neighbours, they're really nice, they go to church and do charity stuff and everything, I guess it's down to a persons own personal view or interpretation of Nazism really.

Are you suggesting that only nazis who actually kill people are bad? Or are you trying to pretend that I'm saying that?

[Damo]

IMG_20170207_201725.jpg (184.3 KiB) Viewed 2751 times

[Damo]

Are you suggesting that only nazis who actually kill people are bad? Or are you trying to pretend that I'm saying that?

[NRC]

to be clear, a Nazi WAS someone who belonged to a political party. The party rulers ordered atrocities. Not all Nazis are killers, they followed a political philosophy that had its place on the socio-political spectrum

[morpheus2]

Are you suggesting that only nazis who actually kill people are bad? Or are you trying to pretend that I'm saying that?

Certainly not old bean! I'm like you, I don't agree with any form of bigotry and I thought you were cutting some of the non extremist more moderate Nazis a bit of slack, like I say, I've got some good Nazi neighbours....I hate the ideology they follow but they are really good people and they cook really nice sausage casserole.

[grapidianclaret]

Just to be clear. Lots of Nazis were involved with the murder of 6 million Jews and many more people. Many nazi's while not actually committing said mass murders, did turn a blind eye to it,therefore ,they were found culpable for said murders. History judged and still judges, and found them all guilty

[ClaretMoffitt]

IMG_20170207_201725.jpg

One of my favorite twitter parodies that guy.

[ClaretMoffitt]

IMG_20170207_201725.jpg

One of my favorite twitter parodies that guy.

[dsr]

It will always be ok to punch this guy. He shouldn't be able to feel comfortable walking down the street. Also, thinking it's ok to punch a Nazi or prevent them from spreading hate is in no way a moral equivalent to being an actual Nazi.

It's not morally equivalent to a concwentration camp, of course, but how exactly do you define what is normal, rational, fair political behaviour, and what is fascism? If one punch to shut him up is OK, what about two punches? If he's still talking, three or four punches? If you're not punching hard enough, hit him with a stick? If you knock him out and shut him up, but he comes out of hospital still talking, can you use a bigger stick? And ultimately, if the only way to stop him talking is by killing him, is that morally justifiable?

I'm sure somewhere on that scale you have your own definition of what is "not Nazi". Where do you stand?

[morpheus2]

I must admit I don't know much about this Nazi business except that it's some form of National socialism, so I've had a little read up and it looks as if the founders drew up a 25 point plan on which their ideology is based, and I discovered that yes, it's very nationalistic and very socialistic and it doesn't like foreigners and particularly Jews. The ideas look a bit outdated (as well as genocidal), do these modern day Nazis follow this same manifesto?



We want all Germans to live in a "Greater Germany"
We want Germany to be treated the same as other nations, and we want the peace treaties of Versailles to be cancelled.
We want land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.
Only Germans may be citizens of the Germany. Only those of the German races may be members of the nation, their religion does not matter. No Jew may be a citizen.
Non-citizens may live in Germany, but there will be special laws for foreigners living in Germany.
Only citizens can vote for parliament and councils, or vote on laws. Everyone who works for the German government, a state government or even a small village must be a citizen of Germany. We will stop giving people jobs because of the political party they are in, only the best people should get a job.
We think that the government's first job is to make sure every citizen has a job and enough to eat. If the government cannot do this, people who are not citizens should be made to leave Germany.
No-one who is not of a German-race should be allowed to live in Germany. We want anyone who is not of a German-race who started living in Germany after 2 August 1914 to leave the country.
All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.
Every citizen should have a job. Their work should not be selfish, but help everyone. Therefore we say
No one should live off money from rents or other income unless they have worked for that money
So many people die or lose their property in a war, it is wrong for other people to make money from the war. Anyone who made money from the war should have all that money taken away.
We want all very big corporations to be owned by the government.
Big industrial companies should share their profits with the workers.
We want old age pensions to be paid.
We want
to create a healthy middle class
to split up big department stores, and let small traders rent space inside them
to make State and town governments try to buy from small traders.
We want to change the way land is owned. We also want
a law to take over land if the country needs it, without the government having to pay for it;
to abolish ground rent; and
to prohibit land speculation (buying land just to sell to someone else for more money).
Crimes against the common interest must be punished with death.
We want the Roman Law system changed for the German common law system.
We want to change the system of schools and education, so that every hard-working German can have the chance of higher education.
What is taught should concentrate on practical things
Schools should teach civic affairs, so that children can become good citizens
If poor parent cannot afford to pay the government should pay for education.
The State must protect health standards by
protecting mothers and infants
stopping children from working
making a law for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and
supporting sports clubs for young men.
We want to get rid of the old army and replace it with a people's army that would look after the ordinary people, not just the rich officer-class
We want the law to stop politicians from being anti-German, and newspapers from writing about them. To make a German national press we demand:
that all editors of, and writers in the German language newspapers are members of the nation (of a German race);
Foreign newspapers need permission from the government. They must not be printed in the German language;
Non-Germans cannot own or control German newspapers.
any non German who does own or control a newspaper will be made to leave Germany, and the newspaper closed down,
Newspapers which criticise the country or the government are not allowed.
Art and books which support foreign ideas, should be banned.
We want to allow all religions in the State, unless they offend the moral feelings of the German race. The NSDAP is Christian, but does not belong to any denomination. The NSDAP will fight the Jewish self-interest spirit, and believes that our nation will be strongest only if everyone puts the common interest before self-interest.
We will
create a strong central government for the Reich;
give Parliament control over the entire government and its organizations;
form groups based on class and job to carry out the laws in the various German states.
The leaders of the Party promise to work—if need be to sacrifice their very lives—to put this programme into action.

[grapidianclaret]

I must admit I don't know much about this Nazi business except that it's some form of National socialism, so I've had a little read up and it looks as if the founders drew up a 25 point plan on which their ideology is based, and I discovered that yes, it's very nationalistic and very socialistic and it doesn't like foreigners and particularly Jews. The ideas look a bit outdated (as well as genocidal), do these modern day Nazis follow this same manifesto?



We want all Germans to live in a "Greater Germany"
We want Germany to be treated the same as other nations, and we want the peace treaties of Versailles to be cancelled.
We want land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.
Only Germans may be citizens of the Germany. Only those of the German races may be members of the nation, their religion does not matter. No Jew may be a citizen.
Non-citizens may live in Germany, but there will be special laws for foreigners living in Germany.
Only citizens can vote for parliament and councils, or vote on laws. Everyone who works for the German government, a state government or even a small village must be a citizen of Germany. We will stop giving people jobs because of the political party they are in, only the best people should get a job.
We think that the government's first job is to make sure every citizen has a job and enough to eat. If the government cannot do this, people who are not citizens should be made to leave Germany.
No-one who is not of a German-race should be allowed to live in Germany. We want anyone who is not of a German-race who started living in Germany after 2 August 1914 to leave the country.
All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.
Every citizen should have a job. Their work should not be selfish, but help everyone. Therefore we say
No one should live off money from rents or other income unless they have worked for that money
So many people die or lose their property in a war, it is wrong for other people to make money from the war. Anyone who made money from the war should have all that money taken away.
We want all very big corporations to be owned by the government.
Big industrial companies should share their profits with the workers.
We want old age pensions to be paid.
We want
to create a healthy middle class
to split up big department stores, and let small traders rent space inside them
to make State and town governments try to buy from small traders.
We want to change the way land is owned. We also want
a law to take over land if the country needs it, without the government having to pay for it;
to abolish ground rent; and
to prohibit land speculation (buying land just to sell to someone else for more money).
Crimes against the common interest must be punished with death.
We want the Roman Law system changed for the German common law system.
We want to change the system of schools and education, so that every hard-working German can have the chance of higher education.
What is taught should concentrate on practical things
Schools should teach civic affairs, so that children can become good citizens
If poor parent cannot afford to pay the government should pay for education.
The State must protect health standards by
protecting mothers and infants
stopping children from working
making a law for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and
supporting sports clubs for young men.
We want to get rid of the old army and replace it with a people's army that would look after the ordinary people, not just the rich officer-class
We want the law to stop politicians from being anti-German, and newspapers from writing about them. To make a German national press we demand:
that all editors of, and writers in the German language newspapers are members of the nation (of a German race);
Foreign newspapers need permission from the government. They must not be printed in the German language;
Non-Germans cannot own or control German newspapers.
any non German who does own or control a newspaper will be made to leave Germany, and the newspaper closed down,
Newspapers which criticise the country or the government are not allowed.
Art and books which support foreign ideas, should be banned.
We want to allow all religions in the State, unless they offend the moral feelings of the German race. The NSDAP is Christian, but does not belong to any denomination. The NSDAP will fight the Jewish self-interest spirit, and believes that our nation will be strongest only if everyone puts the common interest before self-interest.
We will
create a strong central government for the Reich;
give Parliament control over the entire government and its organizations;
form groups based on class and job to carry out the laws in the various German states.
The leaders of the Party promise to work—if need be to sacrifice their very lives—to put this programme into action.

Wow, that would spell the end of the sun newspaper. Mein Gott I am a nazi!

[HatfieldClaret]

That's fine, most Sun readers don't care who runs the country.....so long as she has big tits.

[Corky]

Just to show how silly it can be to arbitrarily label any far right thinkers as Nazis; I believe for a period of time at the start of his political career Aneurin Bevan used to refer to himself as a National Socialist.

[HatfieldClaret]

Denis Healy used to belong to the Young Communists. But, as he said, he used to believe in Father Christmas when he was younger too.

Far left, far right, not a lot of difference between them. Except with the far right you know if you're the enemy of the state. With the far left, everyone is the enemy of the state.

[evensteadiereddie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYaN9z0OqDg

Of course 'Nazi' these days means 'Zionist' or 'Daily Mail Reader' or Milo or Starbucks or anyone who disagrees with the 'left'....

Not a lazy, unreasonable and ignorant comment at all....

[LeadBelly]

Looks like some arms are going to get very tired punching the mass of European "Nazis" who are against Muslim immigration into Europe.
A Chatham House survey of 10,000 people in 10 European countries asked about respondents' views on the statement "‘All further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped’. 55% agreed, only 20% disagreed, 25% undecided.
UK at 47/23/30 is below the average (2nd lowest to Spain); Poland, Austria, Belgium, France have the biggest agreement.
This survey was carried out late Dec/early Jan- before the current Trump controversies.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/com ... mmigration

[morpheus2]

Not a lazy, unreasonable and ignorant comment at all....

I know, disappointed! I thought I'd have caught a few more with that one.
These simple things are only here to keep Turtle's head busy while the rest of us are at work

[biggles]

fcuk the left and liberals. they got trump elected.

[conyoviejo]

Trump being attacked by Nazi golf balls in Scotland..

https://youtu.be/yFuplVFLht0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Imploding Turtle]

fcuk the left and liberals. they got trump elected.

[biggles]

what kind of comment is that, your f'ing retard

[biggles]

oh, i get it. you think that i want to analyse your reply. dream on loser.

[Imploding Turtle]

Wait. You weren't making a joke?

[dsr]

Wait. You weren't making a joke?

I dare say what he means is that the "political class" managed to make themselves so very unpopular, in the specific persona of Hillary Clinton, that Trump managed to get himself elected. Trump didn't win because he was so popular, but because there as many people who couldn't bear the thought of another Clinton than there were couldn't bear the thought of a Trump.

Now, if the career politicians take a look at themselves and work out why they have become so very very unpopular, they might get the hang of becoming more popular and being elected again. If, on the other hand, they decide that there's nothing wrong with them and it's the electorate who need to change, then they might get another shock in four years' time.

[Lancasterclaret]

I do wish you lot would actually just say what you mean rather than assuming us lefties get it.

I mean, I see Farage lying all the time, but he's ace according to you lot?

What is the difference?

is it really all about immigration, really? Is that all you lot worry about?

[biggles]

I mean, I see Farage lying all the time, but he's ace according to you lot? - all politicians lie, though, don't they? blair didn't lie? really? many people, across the world, are fed up with their politicians abusing their position and feathering their own nests instead of doing what's right by the people who elected them. people have been taken for mugs for too long. most people want honesty and a fair deal. politicians concentrate on doing what benefits themselves first and foremost. trump and brexit [and who knows what will happen in the upcoming european elections] reflect this.

[Imploding Turtle]

I dare say what he means is that the "political class" managed to make themselves so very unpopular, in the specific persona of Hillary Clinton, that Trump managed to get himself elected. Trump didn't win because he was so popular, but because there as many people who couldn't bear the thought of another Clinton than there were couldn't bear the thought of a Trump.

Now, if the career politicians take a look at themselves and work out why they have become so very very unpopular, they might get the hang of becoming more popular and being elected again. If, on the other hand, they decide that there's nothing wrong with them and it's the electorate who need to change, then they might get another shock in four years' time.

I know exactly what he meant, and it's still ******* ridiculous. The left didn't choose Clinton over Sanders. The left voted for Sanders. It was the centrists and the right that chose Clinton to be the Democratic nominee so it's absurd to blame the left for Trump's win.

Not only that but it wasn't the left wing that vilified Clinton at every non-opportunity while letting Trump get away with literally everything he said and did. Clinton was accused of aiding paedophiles for **** sake and the right-wing was absolutely nowhere when it came to saying "actually, that's ******* bullshit".

Clinton wouldn't have been my choice that's for sure but jesus ******* christ if people are stupid enough to vote for Trump over Clinton then they can't go around blaming anyone but themselves for their decision, and no one should be blaming anyone else except those morons who voted for Trump thinking that when anti-Trump voices were warning them that this guy isn't what they think they were just saying that because they were biased.

However, i do love it how idiots like to blame the left for literally everything, even their own moronic decisions.


This is an artistic illustration of regretful Trump voters who blame liberals or the left for their ******* idiotic decision.

[Rowls]

I do wish you lot would actually just say what you mean rather than assuming us lefties get it.
I mean, I see Farage lying all the time, but he's ace according to you lot?
What is the difference?
is it really all about immigration, really? Is that all you lot worry about?

When people can see something clearly which nobody else is willing to express there is always a gap to be exploited by somebody prepared to point it out. A lot of this has been centred on immigration but it isn't only reserved for that.

For example, if the BBC can produce a whole TV documentary about our current shortage of housing and not even mention immigration as a factor it clearly isn't willing to consider the full facts of the matter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... se-britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So a politician willing to say things like "mass immigration has kept wages artificially low" or "mass immigration is keeping house prices too high for first time buyers" will find verdant territory. Nobody else has spoken these simple truths so the likes of Farage has benefit from being the one to break the silence and speak the truth on the matter.

If you want this to change, embrace the truth and argue your case. If you want high immigration then argue for it openly. Those who -apparently- wanted high immigration haven't ever argued its case; they've simply failed to acknowledge the problems it bought and called their opponents 'racist'.

The truth is, nobody ever voted for high scale immigration. Nobody apart from Labour party apparatchiks wanted it and yet it is what the Labour party and the EU gave the people of Britain. Little wonder both were voted against by the British people.

[Imploding Turtle]

When people can see something clearly which nobody else is willing to express there is always a gap to be exploited by somebody prepared to point it out. A lot of this has been centred on immigration but it isn't only reserved for that.

For example, if the BBC can produce a whole TV documentary about our current shortage of housing and not even mention immigration as a factor it clearly isn't willing to consider the full facts of the matter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... se-britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So a politician willing to say things like "mass immigration has kept wages artificially low" or "mass immigration is keeping house prices too high for first time buyers" will find verdant territory. Nobody else has spoken these simple truths so the likes of Farage has benefit from being the one to break the silence and speak the truth on the matter.

If you want this to change, embrace the truth and argue your case. If you want high immigration then argue for it openly. Those who -apparently- wanted high immigration haven't ever argued its case; they've simply failed to acknowledge the problems it bought and called their opponents 'racist'.

The truth is, nobody ever voted for high scale immigration. Nobody apart from Labour party apparatchiks wanted it and yet it is what the Labour party and the EU gave the people of Britain. Little wonder both were voted against by the British people.

You've got to love someone who can make the argument that immigration is responcible for both low wages and high house prices. As if those low-paid migrants are the ones buying over-priced houses.

[dsr]

You've got to love someone who can make the argument that immigration is responcible for both low wages and high house prices. As if those low-paid migrants are the ones buying over-priced houses.

Those low-paid immigrants are occupying houses. They aren't living in dustbins or under hedges. Therefore there are fewer houses available per person in this country - a shortage of supply - and prices rise. I'm not an expert in economics, but that came quite early in the course so it's within my understanding.

[Rowls]

You've got to love someone who can make the argument that immigration is responcible for both low wages and high house prices. As if those low-paid migrants are the ones buying over-priced houses.

This is exactly the sort of denial that breeds the populists.

Low-paid immigrants HAVE kept wages low.

The increase in immigration HAS contributed to high house prices.

Go on. I dare you to try and tell people on this forum that these two truths aren't real.

[Imploding Turtle]

Sometimes you are quite bewilderingly stupid.

That additional supply side on labour reduces wages is so self-evidently obvious, it's not even economics. That additional demand for a (short-term at least) relatively fixed resource such as housing will increase the price is similarly a concept a four year-old could grasp.

Your inability to see that someone can be supply side in one impact and demand on the other is baffling because it's so far below your usual level of argument. However much I disagree with nearly every conclusion you draw, at least you usually expound your rationale with some degree of intelligence. It's when you do stuff like this, I doubt the honesty of some of your positions.

But hats off to you for being on-trend and introducing "alternative economics" to the debate.

On this occassion i can just say I was drunk.

[Rowls]

I've been assuming that for years.

[morpheus2]

On this occassion i can just say I was drunk.

[Lancasterclaret]

Only problem with your argument Rowls is that net migration contributes to the economy of the country.

I'm not disagreeing that causing housing/NHS issues, but you know as well as I do that decisions at a political level taken NOT to build enough houses or to provide enough services to help cope with the extra numbers don't help either.

[Tall Paul]

Sometimes you are quite bewilderingly stupid.

That additional supply side on labour reduces wages is so self-evidently obvious, it's not even economics. That additional demand for a (short-term at least) relatively fixed resource such as housing will increase the price is similarly a concept a four year-old could grasp.

Your inability to see that someone can be supply side in one impact and demand on the other is baffling because it's so far below your usual level of argument. However much I disagree with nearly every conclusion you draw, at least you usually expound your rationale with some degree of intelligence. It's when you do stuff like this, I doubt the honesty of some of your positions.

But hats off to you for being on-trend and introducing "alternative economics" to the debate.

Can't we also make the argument that immigrants create additional demand for goods and services and therefore the demand for workers must increase to provide these?

[biggles]

'Sometimes you are quite bewilderingly stupid'. hey, what's with this 'sometimes'? you don't give him the credit he fully deserves

[Imploding Turtle]

'Sometimes you are quite bewilderingly stupid'. hey, what's with this 'sometimes'? you don't give him the credit he fully deserves

This from the guy who thinks that liberals are to blame for Donald Trump.

[Corky]

I'm not a keen advocate of left/right politics. I think I have said before that I find it all a little bit infantile but it appears to be what we have to deal with in the West.

In America they seem to have an almost unique take on it as they have the Republicans who are the right and the Democrats who are - sort of - left of right!!

Prior to the Democrat nominations being finalised I watch a political programme (can't remember what it was called) where a couple of American political commentators were implying that Clinton whilst still looking like she would win had a couple of things going against her. These were that she was seen as part of the establishment and also that there had already been a Clinton in the White House.

Now, whilst that would probably not have an impact on those that were going to vote Democrat regardless of who they were voting for it could well impact on those undecided voters when it came to the actual Presidential Election.

I then saw a programme about a Gun Shop in America. it was a family run business and as you would expect all bar one young member of the family were for Trump. However this young chap who the rest of the family thought of as a bit of a left winger made it quite clear that he would vote for Sanders but if Clinton got the Democratic nomination he would not only not vote for her (because for whatever reason he did not like her) but would vote for Trump.

Interesting I thought. Perhaps the Democratic grandees should have taken more note of what he said.

[Lancasterclaret]

I agree with most of that, but anyone who wanted Sanders and voted Trump must be thinking "Now why the f**k did I do that?"