Martin McGuinness

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:31 pm

I don't understand the mentality of anyone who has all the evidence of the potato famine in front of him, something concrete, something that it would be impossible to argue with, and then thinks, **** it, I'll really go for it and come out with death figures greater than the current population of Ireland.*

*a horrible event in our history btw just in case anyone else thinks otherwise

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:31 pm

Will the truth now finally emerge about his role in Bloody Sunday riots?

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:35 pm

What was that role Woodley, and what evidence are you aware of?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:38 pm

There isn't any doubt to his role, he was commander of the Derry branch of the IRA at the time.

Course there is a bit more to it than that on Bloody Sunday.

Care to fill us in Woodley?

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:44 pm

' he was commander of the Derry branch of the IRA at the time.'

I am asking what he did on the day Lancaster and what evidence exists relating to that day.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:54 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:' he was commander of the Derry branch of the IRA at the time.'

I am asking what he did on the day Lancaster and what evidence exists relating to that day.

I'm pretty sure Hitler wasn't "there on the day" Hampstead.
I don't know McGuiness' exact role in the Bloody Sunday events either but it's pretty widely accepted that he had one.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:01 pm

Hasn't it been said he was at Bloody Sunday with a gun, but never used it?

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:14 pm

More vague flim flam and nonsense...anything concrete and unarguable?....'it's pretty widely accepted'..?

Woodley may be busy, but too often on here posters get involved in cheap made-up 'smearing and then disappear when put on the spot..it happens all the time.

There was an inquiry into Bloody Sunday in 1972 [Widgery] - widely perceived as a whitewash.

So there was another one - the Saville Inquiry which published 15 June 2010.
There is much I could quote from that Inquiry...this will do for now..

'The results were published on 15 June 2010. Then British Prime Minister David Cameron addressed the House of Commons that afternoon where he acknowledged, among other things, that the paratroopers had fired the first shot, had fired on fleeing unarmed civilians, and shot and killed one man who was already wounded. He then apologised on behalf of the British Government.' [WIKI]

Yes it's WIKI..there are plenty of other good sources to check if you're really interested.

There was a thorough inquiry.
Don't start writing your own version of events -= you will look silly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_Inquiry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:16 pm

Good job you are always available to educate people hamstead

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:24 pm

Can you not spell my name properly..?

I just give my own point of view...I try and research stuff though, make sure no one can pull me up for talking boll****

I don't make stuff up either, unlike plenty of the clowns on here.

Any evidence that Martin M. broke the law on Bloody Sunday anyone..?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:26 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:Can you not spell my name properly..?

I just give my own point of view...I try and research stuff though, make sure no one can pull me up for talking boll****

I don't make stuff up either, unlike plenty of the clowns on here.

Any evidence that Martin M. broke the law on Bloody Sunday anyone..?

I get called Sydney all the time

Nope, he was there with a gun and that was it apparently, so I suppose carrying a gun is about as close as it got to breaking the law.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:28 pm

You got a link for that Sidney, I'm interested..?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:29 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr ... ernireland" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:34 pm

- another quote worth looking at..

The report found that Martin McGuinness,"did not engage in any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire."

That could not be any clearer, could it?

That won't stop idiots smearing him for decades to come....'for being a bomber and a shooter' on Bloody Sunday, particularly more so now that he is dead, and unable to answer back.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:35 pm

I just said he was apparently there, I'll have a look for that link hold on.

I found this instead where he states he didn't carry a weapon.

Actually a really good read.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 03936.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:36 pm

Well he had long enough to speak while alive, shame he was too cowardly to do so.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:there is now peace in Northern Ireland.

There isn't though Lancaster, there really isn't. It may seem that way because there aren't any attacks on the mainland but there is in Northern Ireland. Not as bad as it used to be, granted, but to say it is peaceful is far, far from the truth.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:42 pm

claretdom wrote:Well he had long enough to speak while alive, shame he was too cowardly to do so.

Are you applying the same to the Paras?

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:44 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:- another quote worth looking at..

The report found that Martin McGuinness,"did not engage in any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire."

That could not be any clearer, could it?

That won't stop idiots smearing him for decades to come....'for being a bomber and a shooter' on Bloody Sunday, particularly more so now that he is dead, and unable to answer back.

Another leftie just like Eddie and Turtle, if you disagree with them be prepared to be abused.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:45 pm

Sidney...your link says this...

'Sinn Fein MP Martin McGuinness admitted he was the IRA gunman who sparked Bloody Sunday with a single shot, according to an informer, the Saville inquiry was told yesterday..'

'according to an informer' being the crucial phrase.

That doesn't mean anything.

Who is the informer?
Can he be relied on?
Is he telling the truth?
- any real, I mean 'real' evidence..?

It's just more hearsay, rumour, smear, bullshyt that I referred to earlier.

MM described the informer's allegations as 'a pathetic fabrication, a British military ploy to divert attention from the Parachute Regiment's killing of 14 civilians..'

What's new.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:45 pm

I m applying to someone who seems to be made out to be a victim and can no longer defend himself due to his sad death.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:50 pm

119...Another leftie just like Eddie and Turtle, if you disagree with them be prepared to be abused..'

PaintYorkClaretnBlue - show me clearly with an example, who I have abused on this thread.

If you can't do that then you should withdraw your comment/apologise...it's simple.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:51 pm

Read my next link and calm your nips.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Not bothered about the thread read, as I suspect it covers the spectrum and rightly so in this case.

For me, the violence was unacceptable - however, I was not a Catholic in Northern Ireland at the time.

The contribution - at risk of his own life - to the peace process, makes him overall, an Irish hero to all sides.

I am sorry he is gone. there is much more to do.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:02 pm

When you say its not at peace PYCB, can you qualify that with anything?

Of course there are people on both sides who are not happy with the good friday agreement but I can only go off my own experiences in the province.

First time stopped by an army patrol in Armagh because they were looking for terrorists who had stolen a car with British plates, and army vehicles and checkpoints everywhere.

Last time, a peaceful drive over the border without seeing anybody in a uniform.

Thats a hell of an improvement on what it was

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:29 pm

115 - that is an excellent article Sidney.

Still waiting for that bloke to withdraw his comment..fat chance.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:30 pm

NCClaret wrote:... this and your previous post on Tebbit are simply breathtaking, horrible responses.

There is much to condemn McGuinness for and some will laud his part in the 'peace process'. I have my views on him borne out by experience. Perhaps on this issue the best way to summarise his life is one of simply reporting his death and moving on, certainly not lionising him as some are attempting.

Your response to a different view to yours is crass and insensitive. Forget a clever reply ... I don't think you will be able to recognise the sensitivity of all this so wouldn't want to engage any further on this with you.

NCClaret, don't waste your breath mate, EversheddyEddie is a raging dickhead and he's been on my ignore list for some time. He hates anything, everything English and the armed forces with a passion. The scary thing is, he's supposed to be a teacher so Christ alone knows what he's telling the kids.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:37 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:When you say its not at peace PYCB, can you qualify that with anything?

Of course there are people on both sides who are not happy with the good friday agreement but I can only go off my own experiences in the province.

First time stopped by an army patrol in Armagh because they were looking for terrorists who had stolen a car with British plates, and army vehicles and checkpoints everywhere.

Last time, a peaceful drive over the border without seeing anybody in a uniform.

Thats a hell of an improvement on what it was

Relative peace, there are still those entrenched on both sides, only last year a prison officer was murdered by the New IRA. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... rian-ismay" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So not quite "peace" but not war either.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:50 pm

BennyD wrote:NCClaret, don't waste your breath mate, EversheddyEddie is a raging dickhead and he's been on my ignore list for some time. He hates anything, everything English and the armed forces with a passion. The scary thing is, he's supposed to be a teacher so Christ alone knows what he's telling the kids.

You know that being critical of certain aspects of English/British history doesn't necessarily mean somebody 'hates England'. I'd much rather look at something critically and from a balanced perspective than let blind nationalism skew my view so much that I never hold this country accountable for any wrongdoing.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:58 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:Another leftie just like Eddie and Turtle, if you disagree with them be prepared to be abused.

Are you incapable of reading or just too bone idle, PYCB - serious question NOT abuse before you start yelping?
I explained earlier I am neither right nor left, despising all politicians equally. You must have missed that one. I haven't abused anyone - pointing out how frustrating it is to see someone deliberately miss a point is hardly abuse.
Sure, Tebbit got some stick as would any craven politician who waits for his opponent to die before accusing him of a being a cowardly murderer. Bit late isn't it ? Surely he wasn't scared of slandering someone, not our Norm ? Tebbit's government - and others - were at war, he and many, many other people on both sides suffered - what makes him more important than the rest ?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:05 pm

I'd be interested to hear what those who defend Martin McGuinness, think about the so-called freedom fighters within Islamic state?

They, like the IRA torture victims, they like the IRA target people who don't share their religious beliefs.

If you defend the IRA then you sure must defend the attacks on Paris, for example.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:10 pm

SammyBoy wrote:You know that being critical of certain aspects of English/British history doesn't necessarily mean somebody 'hates England'. I'd much rather look at something critically and from a balanced perspective than let blind nationalism skew my view so much that I never hold this country accountable for any wrongdoing.

In that case, have fun reading the drivel he posts.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:15 pm

Spijed wrote:I'd be interested to hear what those who defend Martin McGuinness, think about the so-called freedom fighters within Islamic state?

They, like the IRA torture victims, they like the IRA target people who don't share their religious beliefs.

If you defend the IRA then you sure must defend the attacks on Paris, for example.

Fair question, tough one too.

I don't think the IRA were mainly about religious beliefs were they?
It was mainly about wanting their land back and getting rid of the English/British.

Islamic State have already got their land back, the middle east, what they want though is to re-instate the ancient caliphate that spread across N.Africa and some parts of southern Europe, like Spain.

If we handed N.Ireland back to the Irish and left them to it I think that would end the troubles, Islamic state wouldn't stop if they were handed back the caliphate.

Islamic State are also probably more then a little fed up of the West sticking their nose in the affairs of muslim countries when it suits them.
Israel is also an isssue that needs resolving, but that won't happen anytime soon either.
Islamic state also target other muslims don't they, but I'd need to check that?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:18 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Fair question, tough one too.

I don't think the IRA were mainly about religious beliefs were they?
It was mainly about wanting their land back and getting rid of the English/British.

Islamic State have already got their land back, the middle east, what they want though is to re-instate the ancient caliphate that spread across N.Africa and some parts of southern Europe, like Spain.

If we handed N.Ireland back to the Irish and left them to it I think that would end the troubles, Islamic state wouldn't stop if they were handed back the caliphate.

Islamic State are also probably more then a little fed up of the West sticking their nose in the affairs of muslim countries when it suits them.
Israel is also an isssue that needs resolving, but that won't happen anytime soon either.
Islamic state also target other muslims don't they, but I'd need to check that?

I doubt there were any Protestants in the IRA!

Edit: Isn't that why Celtic & Rangers are split along religious lines?

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:22 pm

131..I'm afraid this isn't a very good post.

I don't go along with your premise that ISIS are like the IRA.

YOU SAY..'If you defend the IRA then you sure must defend the attacks on Paris, for example..'

err..no.

This thread is about MM..I am not taking it off topic by banging on about ISIS.

I will save ISIS comments for another day.

**a few people today who have made some complimentary comments on TV about MM..

Tony Blair
John Major
Bill Clinton
Theresa May

Some people need to move away from their one-sided view of the world, and get some balance into your thinking.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:22 pm

BennyD wrote:NCClaret, don't waste your breath mate, EversheddyEddie is a raging dickhead and he's been on my ignore list for some time. He hates anything, everything English and the armed forces with a passion. The scary thing is, he's supposed to be a teacher so Christ alone knows what he's telling the kids.

These bloody lefties eh, abusing those they disagree with.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:28 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Fair question, tough one too.

I don't think the IRA were mainly about religious beliefs were they?
It was mainly about wanting their land back and getting rid of the English/British.

Islamic State have already got their land back, the middle east, what they want though is to re-instate the ancient caliphate that spread across N.Africa and some parts of southern Europe, like Spain.

If we handed N.Ireland back to the Irish and left them to it I think that would end the troubles, Islamic state wouldn't stop if they were handed back the caliphate.

Islamic State are also probably more then a little fed up of the West sticking their nose in the affairs of muslim countries when it suits them.
Israel is also an isssue that needs resolving, but that won't happen anytime soon either.
Islamic state also target other muslims don't they, but I'd need to check that?

ISIS is pretty much Islamic fascism, and their goals are to subjugate a whole swathe of people to hard line Islamic law. Their stance on the rights of women, homosexuals and other religions is nothing short of appalling. As far as I'm aware the IRA wanted home rule in the form of a parliamentary democracy, which is some difference. I suppose they are similar in the sense that the IRA arose as a reaction to British interference in Irish affairs and ISIS arose due to the power vacuum that was created through Western military operations in the Middle East. A very complex question that could probably be debated all day though in fairness.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:37 pm

Regardless of beliefs, was there any need for members of the IRA to torture and murder people in the way they did?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:49 pm

Probably not, but weren't British intelligence, forces doing stuff they didn't need to do?

Wexford_Claret · Post by **Wexford_Claret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:51 pm

Spijed wrote:Regardless of beliefs, was there any need for members of the IRA to torture and murder people in the way they did?

No. Was there a good reason for the IRA to be angry? Yes. Was there a need for the Peace Process, which McGuiness helped bring about? Yes.

In response to your earlier statement 'I bet there are/were no Protestants in the IRA', you're wrong. Taken from 'A Theology of the IRA', by David Berman:

It [the IRA] has Protestant members, and some of its greatest heroes- Tone, Emmet- were Protestant. Moreover, it frequently criticised the Roman Catholic Hierarchy.

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:57 pm

Blackrod wrote:Alistair Campbell thinks he was 'warm and likeable'

Don't you just wish Alastair Campbell would p*ss off and support another club instead of ours?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:02 pm

Thread

https://twitter.com/The_Paris_Angel/sta ... 8993411072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:12 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:**** me, the blinkered headcases are crawling out of the woodwork.

There you go.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:14 pm

who? is he Paddy's dad or something?

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:18 pm

FFS, didn't take long for the blue dog to spout sh!te....

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:19 pm

Wexford_Claret wrote:No. Was there a good reason for the IRA to be angry? Yes. Was there a need for the Peace Process, which McGuiness helped bring about? Yes.

In response to your earlier statement 'I bet there are/were no Protestants in the IRA', you're wrong. Taken from 'A Theology of the IRA', by David Berman:

It [the IRA] has Protestant members, and some of its greatest heroes- Tone, Emmet- were Protestant. Moreover, it frequently criticised the Roman Catholic Hierarchy.

Fair enough, but how did it end up along the lines that we see today?

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:21 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:-
That won't stop idiots smearing him for decades to come....'for being a bomber and a shooter' on Bloody Sunday, particularly more so now that he is dead, and unable to answer back.

That's what I was initially referring to, it doesn't refer to anyone on here, so for including you with the other two, I apologise and withdraw my comment.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:27 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:When you say its not at peace PYCB, can you qualify that with anything?

Of course there are people on both sides who are not happy with the good friday agreement but I can only go off my own experiences in the province.

First time stopped by an army patrol in Armagh because they were looking for terrorists who had stolen a car with British plates, and army vehicles and checkpoints everywhere.

Last time, a peaceful drive over the border without seeing anybody in a uniform.

Thats a hell of an improvement on what it was

I can't qualify it with anything that I can put on here Lancaster, suffice it to say that I have regular briefings on the events happening over there.

Btw, I don't have any first hand experience over there, just the briefings. I agree that there has been an improvement but it's still far from peaceful.

Lance Romance · Post by **Lance Romance** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:44 pm

As always, Alan Partridge nailed it - Martin McGuiness looks like a clown with no make up.

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:50 pm

if ever a thread was going to show the average iq of most posters and adherence to blind ignorance and a complete ignoring of the facts and dividing posters on racial / religous and partizan lines this was it.