Kelvin MacKenzie attacking Liverpool again

[ClaretTony]

Kelvin MacKenzie was the editor of the Sun newspaper in 1989 at the time of the Hillsborough disaster, the editor who allowed the shocking story Hillsborough: The Truth. I won't even comment on his timing, this coming the day before the 28th anniversary, but his piece today is shocking (and I won't put a link to the article on here, I wouldn't want to give that newspaper any traffic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39601728

[fidelcastro]

An absolute gutter snipe is Mackenzie. Nothing surprises me with anything he comes out with. He should just marry Katy Hopkins and have done with it.

[Wile E Coyote]

the sun has a huge readership, clearly enough numbskulls around adore this mindless crap.
Same mob soak it up that read take a break and love inane celebrity stories.
You'd think they would be astute enough not to offend like this.

[Spiral]

https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/ ... 3066003456" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HelloHiGoodbye]

****. Him and the paper.

[JohnMcGreal]

Waste of organs. Despicable paper.

[Bordeauxclaret]

MacKenzie and The Sun really suit each other don't they.

[Sidney1st]

I'm going to be honest, I didn't even know he was of mixed race descent.
He looks as white as I do and I've no African relatives anywhere in my past.

He does look fairly dim though.

I'm not trying to defend the bloke, but maybe he didn't know Barkley has Nigerian relatives.

He should've just called him stupid and left it at that for less aggravation.

[Sidney1st]

Oh and when did Scousers become a different race to the rest of us?

There are plenty of dodgy gits in Liverpool too.

[Spiral]

The comparison to a gorilla is too specific for him to deserve the benefit of the doubt. He knows fine what he is doing.

And perhaps we should set the bar a little higher than expecting national newspapers to just call people stupid.

[Sidney1st]

It probably is, but the rest of us wouldn't have a clue about Barkleys heritage until the mayor of the nation of Scouse chucked the complaint in.

Has Ross filed his complaint yet?

[Spiral]

This is why liberals are constantly viewed as limp-wristed puffs, because they need to continuously point out bullshit like the specious notion that a complaint has to be made by the target of abuse before a person's backwards worldview can be challenged.

[Sidney1st]

Don't label me with that liberal ********.

I merely asked the question, that's all.

If its racist, and there's a strong possibility it is, then string Mackenzie up, I'm all for it.

Personally I didn't have a clue Barkley has family from Nigeria, until I read that article.

Meanwhile the Mayor looks a bit of a dick stating that scouse is a race.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Another one of life's cretins who enjoys the notoriety of trying to 'shock' people. Seems like the trendy thing to do in the media over recent years.

[Spiral]

Meanwhile the Mayor looks a bit of a dick stating that scouse is a race.

This is true. (He's a Labour councillor so what can you expect?). This doesn't, however, exonerate MacKenzie.

[The Enclosure]

Burnley midfielder Joey Barton, who was an Everton youth player, tweeted: "Those comments about Ross Barkley, a young working-class lad, are disgusting. Then add in the fact he is mixed race! It becomes outrageous."

[HelloHiGoodbye]

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Ross Barkley has a Nigerian grandfather but besides - MacKenzie definitely knows, as someone's pointed out above, that choice of photo is way too specific. Even without that reference - the article is cheap and as dim as MacKenzie claims Barkley to be. He and The S*n are utterly vile. Don't buy The S*n.

[ClaretTony]

Meanwhile the Mayor looks a bit of a dick stating that scouse is a race.

No more than you are on this thread with some of your comments

[Sidney1st]

No more than you are on this thread with some of your comments

Thanks for that one.

I'll assume you were fully aware of Barkley's heritage then, being the font of all knowledge that you are?

Can't even have a constructive discussion now it seems.
I'll not bother with this thread now then, clearly isn't the place for a chat.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Oh and when did Scousers become a different race to the rest of us?

There are plenty of dodgy gits in Liverpool too.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Its not racist. Hes not calling him a gorilla because of his heritage. He is calling him a gorilla because of his apparent lack of intellect / intelligence.

Its a shitty story and typical poor red top journalism. But its not racist. Hes not saying he looks like a gorilla. People are looking at or for something thats not there. Getting offended on someones behalf.

[fidelcastro]

Its not racist. Hes not calling him a gorilla because of his heritage. He is calling him a gorilla because of his apparent lack of intellect / intelligence.

Its a shitty story and typical poor red top journalism. But its not racist. Hes not saying he looks like a gorilla. People are looking at or for something thats not there. Getting offended on someones behalf.

Do you really believe that?

Why, out of all animals, did he pick a gorilla do you think?

Gorillas aren't renowned for their stupidity, you know?

[martin_p]

Do you really believe that?

Why, out of all animals, did he pick a gorilla do you think?

Gorillas aren't renowned for their stupidity, you know?

Exactly! It all falls down around his claim that when you look in a gorilla's eyes in a zoo the lights are on but nobody's home. He's either never seen a gorilla or he's choosing a gorilla for another reason!

[Cheshireclaret]

I too thought it was fairly common knowledge that Ross Barkley was mixed race as there was an historic debate over whether he would play for England or Nigeria.

I'm pretty certain Kelvin MacKenzie was fully aware anyway, even if Sidney1st and others weren't, and he knew precisely what he was doing with this inflammatory piece.

It's gutter journalism and the same old mouthpiece trotting out the same, bile-laden rhetoric. Appalling article quite frankly, even without the context of the timing as it is.

[dsr]

The mayor of Liverpool os wrong about insulting Scousers being racially prejudiced. It isn't. It was established early after the newish racial laws were introduced that if a Liverpudlian and a Scotsman have a fight, and start name calling "Scouse ****" and "Scots ****", the Liverpudlian can get 10 years in jail for racially aggravated affray, the Scotsman onny 1 year for affray.

If you have a child in your class at school who comes from Essex or who has red hair, you can legally make life hell for them. If the child has black skin or comes from Wales, it becomes illegal.

Personally I have never equated black people with gorillas in any way shape or form. I don't think gorillas look like people anyway.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I'm all for the national journos slating Mackenzie (some of the vitriol on Twitter from the likes of Lineker is pretty abusive) but I hope they balance it out with condemnation for Barkley as regards his behaviour. Life may have moved on from 80's journalism but I don't consider it moving on if overpaid young primadonnas start getting a free pass for disgraceful public behaviour (assuming it is true what led to his being assaulted). You wonder what gets taught in these academies apart from the football.

[Spiral]

He's been suspended.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39603942" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Siddo]

This is why liberals are constantly viewed as limp-wristed puffs, because they need to continuously point out bullshit like the specious notion that a complaint has to be made by the target of abuse before a person's backwards worldview can be challenged.

I wonder if you can tell me without being homophobic, what a limp wristed puff is, and while you are at it, tell me which junior school you currently attend?

[ClaretTony]

He's been suspended.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39603942" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a start I suppose but only after they initially defended the publishing of the article. The sooner McKenzie's words can only be read by himself, the better.

[Spiral]

I wonder if you can tell me without being homophobic, what a limp wristed puff is, and while you are at it, tell me which junior school you currently attend?

It's a variation on snowflake/cuck/PC gone mad/If you say you're English these days you get arrested and thrown in jail. (Last one is Stewart Lee). People, usually 'liberals' (self-styled or otherwise), call out nonsensical bigoted bullshit and are met with a customary, routine ad-hominem bigot-reflex. It's a cycle played out on a weekly basis on this very forum.

[Greenmile]

Do you really believe that?

Why, out of all animals, did he pick a gorilla do you think?

Gorillas aren't renowned for their stupidity, you know?

This.

It seems some people are willing to perform all sorts of mental gymnastics to avoid calling out blatant racism, unless it's anti-white racism of course.

[scouseclaret]

The mayor of Liverpool os wrong about insulting Scousers being racially prejudiced. It isn't. It was established early after the newish racial laws were introduced that if a Liverpudlian and a Scotsman have a fight, and start name calling "Scouse ****" and "Scots ****", the Liverpudlian can get 10 years in jail for racially aggravated affray, the Scotsman onny 1 year for affray.

If you have a child in your class at school who comes from Essex or who has red hair, you can legally make life hell for them. If the child has black skin or comes from Wales, it becomes illegal.

That's interesting. I've often thought that if some of the anti-scouse bile peddled by the likes of the Sun and the Mail (and, it has to be said, occasionally on here) were said about black or gay people, it would be deemed totally unacceptable.

[joey13]

So the Sun has suspended him , yet they published the story in the first place .

[dsr]

That's interesting. I've often thought that if some of the anti-scouse bile peddled by the likes of the Sun and the Mail (and, it has to be said, occasionally on here) were said about black or gay people, it would be deemed totally unacceptable.

It certainly would be. As would the jokes that Tom O'Connor tells about Liverpudlians, unfortunately - it seems that half the population takes things altogether too far, while the other half jumps on the slightest bit of a joke as unacceptable.

It's the one about so-called "gingers" that gets my goat most of all. The casual abuse thrown out at people with red hair is A Bad Thing. IMO. I'm not the most empathetic of people, but I can imagine children being well upset.

[Rileybobs]

Life may have moved on from 80's journalism but I don't consider it moving on if overpaid young primadonnas start getting a free pass for disgraceful public behaviour (assuming it is true what led to his being assaulted). You wonder what gets taught in these academies apart from the football.

What's Barkley supposed to have done? I haven't followed the story.

[Rowls]

The comparison to a gorilla is too specific for him to deserve the benefit of the doubt. He knows fine what he is doing.
And perhaps we should set the bar a little higher than expecting national newspapers to just call people stupid.

Do you really believe that?
Why, out of all animals, did he pick a gorilla do you think?
Gorillas aren't renowned for their stupidity, you know?

Exactly! It all falls down around his claim that when you look in a gorilla's eyes in a zoo the lights are on but nobody's home. He's either never seen a gorilla or he's choosing a gorilla for another reason!

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Ross Barkley has a Nigerian grandfather but besides - MacKenzie definitely knows, as someone's pointed out above, that choice of photo is way too specific. Even without that reference - the article is cheap and as dim as MacKenzie claims Barkley to be. He and The Sun are utterly vile. Don't buy The Sun.

There ain't half been some tosh posted on here today.

The last time I went to the zoo the gorilla was picking its bum and sniffing its fingers.

Intelligent? About as much as some of the comments here.

[Spiral]

Isn't like you to have a selective, politically expedient, partisan grasp on reality, Rowls. You feeling okay?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla#Intelligence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[No Ney Never]

I wonder if you can tell me without being homophobic, what a limp wristed puff is, and while you are at it, tell me which junior school you currently attend?

Limp wristed puff, haven't heard that expression for a long time. Someone who is delicate and easily brushed aside. I was going to say light and easily blown away, but blown away may have some people instantly jumping on the homophobic bandwagon.
Maybe some people need to familiarise themselves with the difference between poof and puff.

[HelloHiGoodbye]

There ain't half been some tosh posted on here today.

Not as much as usual, you've been quite quiet today.

[fidelcastro]

There ain't half been some tosh posted on here today.

The last time I went to the zoo the gorilla was picking its bum and sniffing its fingers.

Intelligent? About as much as some of the comments here.

So, why did he make the comparison with a gorilla, Rowls?

I know you like to defend right wing obscurantists like Mackenzie, but I thought even you might draw a line somewhere.

[Rowls]

Hmmmm, I wonder if there'd be a split between 'lefites' and 'righties' if you asked them the question, "Do you think gorillas are intelligent?" ?

Y'know what - I suspect you're right; I suspect that 'lefties' would be more likely to respond affirmatively and 'righties' would be more likely to say no.

Are gorillas intelligent?

In terms of comparing them to ALL other animal species goes then, yes. They're easily in the Premier League of intelligence for animal species.

But are they actually, genuinely intelligent?

No. They're thick as pigshit.

In fact they're bottom of the mini league for the great apes.

For those who are dim enough to imagine that McKenzie's remarks were intended as a racist remark let's consider a little a scenario:

It's been stated on here that he simply *can't* have intended the comment to refer solely to intelligence because gorillas are -relatively- quite intelligent.

So let's consider how well comparing somebody preferably to a gorilla to compliment their intelligence would pan out...

"Oh! You're so intelligent!"
"Thank you. You say the nicest things. Stop! You're embarrassing me."
"No really. I mean it. You're intelligent like ... like ... like a gorilla."

For the sake of UTC I'll try this "compliment" this next time I get chance to flirt with an intelligent girl (should be tomorrow night).

I'll let you know how it goes down.

[HelloHiGoodbye]

Hmmmm, I wonder if there'd be a split between 'lefites' and 'righties' if you asked them the question, "Do you think gorillas are intelligent?" ?

Y'know what - I suspect you're right; I suspect that 'lefties' would be more likely to respond affirmatively and 'righties' would be more likely to say no.

Are gorillas intelligent?

In terms of comparing them to ALL other animal species goes then, yes. They're easily in the Premier League of intelligence for animal species.

But are they actually, genuinely intelligent?

No. They're thick as pigshit.

In fact they're bottom of the mini league for the great apes.

For those who are dim enough to imagine that McKenzie's remarks were intended as a racist remark let's consider a little a scenario:

It's been stated on here that he simply *can't* have intended the comment to refer solely to intelligence because gorillas are -relatively- quite intelligent.

So let's see how well comparing somebody preferably to a gorilla to compliment their intelligence would pan out...

"Oh! You're so intelligent!"
"Thank you. You say the nicest things. Stop! You're embarrassing me."
"No really. I mean it. You're intelligent like ... like ... like a gorilla."

For the sake of UTC I'll try this "compliment" this next time I get chance to flirt with an intelligent girl (should be tomorrow night).

I'll let you know how it goes down.

Wow. That's some effort to be contrary, fair play.

[Sidney1st]

There ain't half been some tosh posted on here today.

The last time I went to the zoo the gorilla was picking its bum and sniffing its fingers.

Intelligent? About as much as some of the comments here.

I was hoping no one had spotted me doing that

[fidelcastro]

I'm not sure anyone on here said that gorillas were intelligent, and they're not, especially when compared with humans (although some of the comments on this forum dispel that theory). However, they're not known for their dimness either, which is what defenders of Mackenzie and his rag of a paper would like us all to believe.

[Rowls]

So, why did he make the comparison with a gorilla, Rowls?
I know you like to defend right wing obscurantists like Mackenzie, but I thought even you might draw a line somewhere.

Maybe something to do with gorillas being thick as a lot of posters on here and Ross Barkley being built like a BSH?

Possibly, just possibly it's one of these reasons that a man who has been a professional journalist for 40-50 years thought the metaphor worked.

No?

Maybe not eh?

Maybe all these people tapping away at keyboards know more about metaphors and writing than a man who rose to the top of his profession?

Maybe this was just the start of something bigger?

Perhaps today Kelvin McKenzie was going to write an article with an implied racism so obscure that only geniuses and the mentally ill could spot it?

Good job he didn't get away with it.

I bet the Sun have had to cancel tomorrow's plan for a full front page "Seig Heil!" headline. And all because people like yourself were ever vigilant!

Well done everybody.

First they came for Ross Barkley. Then they came for the Scousers. Then the came for the people who it transpired out had a black grandfather...

[Lancasterclaret]

Rowls has spoken.

Nothing to see here then. Right wing nutjob writing in a right wing nutjob paper defended by a right wing nutjob who doesn't even live in this country anymore.

Standard these days sadly

[HelloHiGoodbye]

Maybe something to do with gorillas being thick as a lot of posters on here and Ross Barkley being built like a BSH?

Possibly, just possibly it's one of these reasons that a man who has been a professional journalist for 40-50 years thought the metaphor worked.

No?

Maybe not eh?

Maybe all these people tapping away at keyboards know more about metaphors and writing than a man who rose to the top of his profession?

Maybe this was just the start of something bigger?

Perhaps today Kelvin McKenzie was going to write an article with an implied racism so obscure that only geniuses and the mentally ill could spot it?

Good job he didn't get away with it.

I bet the Sun have had to cancel tomorrow's plan for a full front page "Seig Heil!" headline. And all because people like yourself were ever vigilant!

Well done everybody.

First they came for Ross Barkley. Then they came for the Scousers. Then the came for the people who it transpired out had a black grandfather...

u ok hun?

[Claretforever]

Perhaps we're not that different to apes after all..

[KefkaClaret]

I love how one of the reasons they list for suspension was that it was "unfunny".

"Kelvin, I can tolerate it being offensive but the crap banter is too far".

[fidelcastro]

The top of his profession?

The S*n?

Oh please!