Some cultures are just better than others

[ClaretAndJew]

Obviously you aren't aware of how meat is prepared in the Jewish community.

How do you think Kosher meat is produced?

Can confirm

[brexit]

Every time I see a traffic warden in Burnley I put face to a poster on this board's name.

[morpheus2]

Obviously you aren't aware of how meat is prepared in the Jewish community.

How do you think Kosher meat is produced?

Barbaric all round, disgusting evil practice. But I fail to see how one very tiny group of religious nutjobs being cruel to our fellow living creatures excuses another massive group of religious nutjobs from doing the same thing, I realise it's an attempt to use a moral equivalence argument to end the debate, but it's a poor one.
Ban Halal and kosher meat.

[Sidney1st]

It's similar to Halal isn't it?

People just don't get upset about it because they aren't interested in it unless its related to Islam which they like to get offended about.

I'm fairly certain if you blind folded someone and gave them a piece of meat from halal, Kosher and what they'd consider normal they wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Same with Free Range eggs and eggs from hens kept in batteries (?), they don't taste any different, its just what people perceive.

[Corky]

I detest cruelty to animals and I do not want to associate with people who do not like dogs.

[morpheus2]

People have been long upset about kosher meat, I am as equally upset about the preparation of kosher meat as I am halal meat. The scale of the evil is worth noting though...1.6 billion Muslims + the hapless ignorant general public using halal, versus a handful (in comparison) of kosher outlets?

[Imploding Turtle]

Every time I see a traffic warden in Burnley I put face to a poster on this board's name.

I think i know what you're trying to say but it's more fun to accept what you actually said. Whatever that is.

[Imploding Turtle]

Barbaric all round, disgusting evil practice. But I fail to see how one very tiny group of religious nutjobs being cruel to our fellow living creatures excuses another massive group of religious nutjobs from doing the same thing, I realise it's an attempt to use a moral equivalence argument to end the debate, but it's a poor one.
Ban Halal and kosher meat.

I think his point is that we aren't pandering to Muslims.

[Sidney1st]

If people have long been upset about Kosher why don't I see the same reaction about it on social media?
Is it because it isn't being sold by main stream supermarkets like Halal is?
Or is it because it because it isn't being used in main stream food outlets?

People generally aren't bothered about Kosher because it isn't in the mainstream and the media don't make an issue about it either, its ignored because as a story it wouldn't sell.

[Imploding Turtle]

It's similar to Halal isn't it?

People just don't get upset about it because they aren't interested in it unless its related to Islam which they like to get offended about.

I'm fairly certain if you blind folded someone and gave them a piece of meat from halal, Kosher and what they'd consider normal they wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Same with Free Range eggs and eggs from hens kept in batteries (?), they don't taste any different, its just what people perceive.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 4050786319" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Holmeclaret]

I detest cruelty to animals and I do not want to associate with people who do not like dogs.

Then you have a lot in common with the prophet of Islam:
"Whoever is merciful even to a sparrow, Allah will be merciful to him on the day of judgement."
"A good deed done to an animal is like a good deed done to a human being. A bad deed done to an animal is like a bad deed done to a human being."
"Fear Allah in these beasts who cannot speak."
"Who has hurt the feelings of hurting this bird by taking its young? Return them to her."
On seeing a donkey branded in the face, “Allah curse the one who has branded it.”
On excessive use of beasts of burden , “do not use the backs of your animals as chairs”
Regarding dogs, Prophet Muhammed told a story about a prostitute who was saved because when she saw a dog dying of thirst, she went to a well to bring it water.
I used to be a keen angler and although I do the occasional bit of fly fishing (where the end product is food) I gave up course fishing as I felt it conflicted with my belief.
There has been an ongoing discourse regarding stunning within the British muslim community. The majority take the view that as long as the stunning is not so severe as to cause the death of the animal, it is permissible to stun. About 84% of halal meat in the UK is stunned (source RSPCA). IMO it should be 100%. The halal meat you see on supermarket shelves is stunned.
Halal ritual requires that the animal should be fed and watered before slaughter ( to ensure that the animal believes that nothing untoward is likely to happen), that it should not be aware of other animals being slaughtered in the the vicinity and that it should never see the butcher's knife. These conditions are rarely met which makes the whole mass slaughter process very dubious. To do it properly would, however, raise the price of meat.
Regarding chicken, lamb, beef etc slaughtered outside of islamic ritual, the rule is that muslims are allowed to eat it if slaughtered by Jews or Christians ( the people of the book). This has justification in the Quran. In the US, the majority of muslims eat kosher and non kosher meat. In Europe, they tend to eat kosher only as an alternative as Europeans (except for Jews) do not dedicate the slaughter to God.
I'm not sure whether I'd want to associate with you or not, Corky, I'd need to know you better before making that decision. I've had dogs on and off for 30 years. I very much care for animals and I am appalled by anyone, muslim or non muslim, who is cruel to them, so there does appear to be some common ground.

[Holmeclaret]

That doesn't mean that I believe that fishing should be banned. People have to make their own decisions once the arguments are properly presented. As the Quran says 'Lakum dinukum waliya din'. Literally ' you to your way and me to mine' - a statement of liberalism ignored by too many muslims.
For meat to be kosher, it must not be stunned. History calls for special consideration on Jewish slaughter. One of the Nazis' earliest pieces of anti semitic legislation was the outlawing of kashrut ritual. Much worse followed and I don't think one single step down that path should be taken, regardless if animal rights.

[claretdom]

I wouldn't trust any person, faith, religion or campaign that tried to tell me a bacon butty is wrong.

[quoonbeatz]

I wouldn't trust any person, faith, religion or campaign that tried to tell me a bacon butty is wrong.

is this just bacon butties as a general theme because depending on the choice of bread/sauce, they may have a point.

[quoonbeatz]

also smoked/non-smoked.

back/streaky.

[quoonbeatz]

trust no one.

[claretdom]

is this just bacon butties as a general theme because depending on the choice of bread/sauce, they may have a point.

Good point, cheap versions of sauces should also be added to the list

[Holmeclaret]

I wouldn't trust any person, faith, religion or campaign that tried to tell me a bacon butty is wrong.

I can eat a bacon butty if there's nothing else available. Sadly, I've never been in that position as I do understand they are rather good.

[claretdom]

also smoked/non-smoked.

back/streaky.

Streaky bacon is wafer thin ham in disguise !!

[Holmeclaret]

When I worked at Asda as a youth I did my shoulder in stacking palletes of bacon in the cold room. It still gives me gyp 34 years on. That's the only thing I've got against bacon.

[UpTheBeehole]

In my culture sausage butties are considered superior to bacon butties.

A proper, well-seasoned banger, served with whole grain mustard on baker's bread. Alternatively, a chipolata with HP sauce.

We are forbidden from eating those crap sausages which come frozen in bags of 50.

[UpTheBeehole]

Streaky bacon is the one when slightly overdone, so the fat goes crispy and salty.

[Rileybobs]

The OP is one of the most stupid, illogical and pointless things I've ever read on this message board, which is some feat.

[Holmeclaret]

The OP is one of the most stupid, illogical and pointless things I've ever read on this message board, which is some feat.

Yes, but only Burnley folk could turn it into a discussion of the merits of different kinds of cured meats and the best sauces.

[Newty]

One of the Nazis' earliest pieces of anti semitic legislation was the outlawing of kashrut ritual. Much worse followed and I don't think one single step down that path should be taken, regardless if animal rights.

While I'm not in anyway suggesting talking a leaf out of the Nazi's book, I take issue with putting anybody's religious beliefs before the rights of any animal on the basis that animals should come first because they actually exist.

[aggi]

I've always wondered at people who claim to be outraged at the cruelty of shechita/halal slaughter but aren't vegans. Let's be honest, farming animals and slaughtering them to eat is generally pretty cruel regardless of the method of slaughter used.

If you have an issue with someone saying religious words over the meat as it's slaughtered because it offends your faith then fair enough, just say so. I have no issue with a christian who doesn't want to eat halal meat as they don't like the idea of the religious aspect. Don't try and dress it up as a regard for animal rights though, that's just ********.

[Imploding Turtle]

I've always wondered at people who claim to be outraged at the cruelty of shechita/halal slaughter but aren't vegans. Let's be honest, farming animals and slaughtering them to eat is generally pretty cruel regardless of the method of slaughter used.

If you have an issue with someone saying religious words over the meat as it's slaughtered because it offends your faith then fair enough, just say so. I have no issue with a christian who doesn't want to eat halal meat as they don't like the idea of the religious aspect. Don't try and dress it up as a regard for animal rights though, that's just ********.

Because there are some people that can hate a certain group of people so much that their hatred extends to anything that group likes.

[ClaretAndJew]

I've always wondered at people who claim to be outraged at the cruelty of shechita/halal slaughter but aren't vegans. Let's be honest, farming animals and slaughtering them to eat is generally pretty cruel regardless of the method of slaughter used.

If you have an issue with someone saying religious words over the meat as it's slaughtered because it offends your faith then fair enough, just say so. I have no issue with a christian who doesn't want to eat halal meat as they don't like the idea of the religious aspect. Don't try and dress it up as a regard for animal rights though, that's just ********.

Well, I think it's more to do with the fact that, general slaughter consists of animals being stunned and immediately killed with a blow/bolt to the head.

Halal and kosher has them hung upside down, their throat slit and their entire blood drained from the animal whilst a prayer is said over it. No stunning, the animal is conscious during the whole thing until it obviously bleeds out.

There are some people who say there is no pain during the halal slaughter, due to where they cut the throat, but it is still instilling fear in the final moments of the animal's life.

[Holmeclaret]

While I'm not in anyway suggesting talking a leaf out of the Nazi's book, I take issue with putting anybody's religious beliefs before the rights of any animal on the basis that animals should come first because they actually exist.

I believe in stunning before slaughter. I also believe that far too many animals are slaughtered in this country. It goes way beyond need, it's unhealthy and it's cruel.I am led to these beliefs by the islamic concepts of 'rahmah' ( overwhelming mercy) and stewardship ( responsibility for the well being of all living creatures on Earth). My basis is religion and that, for me, God exists. That does not give me a right to impose my views on you by , for instance, insisting that you only eat a small amount of meat every week. For you, I'm assuming God doesn't exist and that the basis of your view is human compassion ( foregive me if I'm wrong ).That does not give you a right to impose your views on relgious Jews.
BTW muslims are by far the worst for excessive meat eating because they don't follow their religion properly.

[UpTheBeehole]

In a world where Bem Brasil and Fazenda exist, you can't say that 'muslims are by far the worst for excessive meat eating'

[Holmeclaret]

In a world where Bem Brasil and Fazenda exist, you can't say that 'muslims are by far the worst for excessive meat eating'

I'm speaking of significant populations in Britain and also anecdotally so I suppose you're right.

[aggi]

Well, I think it's more to do with the fact that, general slaughter consists of animals being stunned and immediately killed with a blow/bolt to the head.

Halal and kosher has them hung upside down, their throat slit and their entire blood drained from the animal whilst a prayer is said over it. No stunning, the animal is conscious during the whole thing until it obviously bleeds out.

There are some people who say there is no pain during the halal slaughter, due to where they cut the throat, but it is still instilling fear in the final moments of the animal's life.

It's degrees of cruelty though, a general slaughterhouse isn't stress-free and a happy environment for animals (and that's before you get onto the life they have had before then). I just feel that if people cared so much about animal suffering that they wouldn't be eating them at all.

[Sidney1st]

I can confirm my food is dead and I'm not overly fussed how it died, it tasted lovely though.

WP_20170601_13_26_52_Pro.jpg (1.81 MiB) Viewed 3364 times

[UpTheBeehole]

That bacon will fall off

[HatfieldClaret]

Can't say I do Spijed

Include Kosher meat in the list then.

[Corky]

[quote="Holmeclaret"]Then you have a lot in common with the prophet of Islam:

No I don't. I'm an atheist.

[morpheus2]

This barbaric cruel practice must stop, how anyone can willingly allow an animal unnecessary suffering just to please the ritualistic whims of the followers of a middle eastern desert god - a fairy tale, is beyond me. What a pathetic race we humans are, it should be banned it is as simple as that.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... urger.html

[UpTheBeehole]

Halal butchery is no more cruel than any other butchery. It's still an animal being killed for people to eat.

If there wasn't a squiggle saying it was halal, you wouldn't know. It looks the same, it tastes exactly the same, it's the same animal with the bolt through its head, it's the same meat.

[ClaretMoffitt]

F*cking hilarious use of the word 'Liberals'.

I bet you can't wait for the papers to tell you which buzz-word to get angry about next

>Implying I read papers.

[Holmeclaret]

All the sayings I gave were about animal welfare, not theism. To that extent, you do.

[_Soclaretes_]

>Implying I read papers.

Apologies, definitely unfair to assume you can read. Does your carer not get bored of typing all your forum posts?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Apologies, definitely unfair to assume you can read. Does your carer not get bored of typing all your forum posts?

Well, only took you 20 days to come at me with that response. Fair play.

[_Soclaretes_]

Well, only took you 20 days to come at me with that response. Fair play.

Some of us have other things to do than trawl forums spouting hate and bile mate. Try and get out a bit

[UpTheBeehole]

Barbaric all round, disgusting evil practice. But I fail to see how one very tiny group of religious nutjobs being cruel to our fellow living creatures excuses another massive group of religious nutjobs from doing the same thing, I realise it's an attempt to use a moral equivalence argument to end the debate, but it's a poor one.
Ban Halal and kosher meat.

Interesting that the Tories have voted against a clause which would have enshrined into UK law the recognition that animals feel pain and emotion.

Full steam ahead for halal meat everywhere then, if the government view is that animals don't feel pain. After all, how can it be cruel if they don't feel pain?

[Sidney1st]

Aside from how they're killed, buying Halal meat shouldn't be an issue for anyone.
It's still the same dead animal.

[UpTheBeehole]

Aside from how they're killed, buying Halal meat shouldn't be an issue for anyone.
It's still the same dead animal.

My view entirely.

[duncandisorderly]

I can confirm my food is dead and I'm not overly fussed how it died, it tasted lovely though.

WP_20170601_13_26_52_Pro.jpg

The burger looks good, but what happened to the rest of the bacon?

[RingoMcCartney]

Some people use "culture" to avoid getting the sack and possible jail.

Married Pakistani doctor, 44, who molested student nurse, 21, then blamed it on 'different cultural norms' in the UK gets to keep his job.

Unbelievable....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-job.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Blackrod]

So he can stay on the Medical Register to practice as a Doctor but he has had to go on the Sex Offenders Register. Who the hell will want to see him. I hope all women steer clear of him.

[quoonbeatz]

he can't practise as a doctor, he's suspended.