Dyche's Replacement

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:45 pm

Go on then please tell me what Garry Monk has done to deserve a job in the Premier League? Maybe there's something i'm not getting

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:48 pm

Do we need a manager with Premier League experience? Some Premier League teams appoint managers from abroad who have never managed in the PL before.

What about Graham Alexander? He knows the club, he's a leader and he's done well in his managerial career so far. I know some people would be underwhelmed with such an appointment but just thought I'd throw it out there

I actually think he'd do really well for us.

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:54 pm

moyes did a brilliant job at everton and since then got the sack at man utd after inheriting a load of under achieving big time charlies....at sunderland he again had a tough task....moyes style at everton would probably be agreeable to our board.
I dont think you get worse as a manager...its often just circumstances that determine the outcome of your efforts.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:57 pm

happyclaret17 wrote:moyes did a brilliant job at everton and since then got the sack at man utd after inheriting a load of under achieving big time charlies....at sunderland he again had a tough task....moyes style at everton would probably be agreeable to our board.
I dont think you get worse as a manager...its often just circumstances that determine the outcome of your efforts.

He also didn't do very well at Real Sociedad though I do admire him for giving it a go abroad. Either way, I'm less than convinced about Moyes after his recent failures but he'd likely be given time with us and probably wouldn't be under too much pressure (not like at United anyway!).

cockermouthclaret · Post by **cockermouthclaret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:58 pm

Uwe Rossler, doing an excellent job at Fleetwood Town and I beleive perfectly capable of stepping up!

Stan Tastic · Post by **Stan Tastic** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:08 pm

happyclaret17 wrote:moyes did a brilliant job at everton and since then got the sack at man utd after inheriting a load of under achieving big time charlies....at sunderland he again had a tough task....moyes style at everton would probably be agreeable to our board.
I dont think you get worse as a manager...its often just circumstances that determine the outcome of your efforts.

What an awful suggestion.

He was so negative from the start at Sunderland that they were virtually relegated before the season began.

Exactly the sort of attitude we don't want anywhere near the Turf.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:10 pm

IndigoLake wrote:Do we need a manager with Premier League experience? Some Premier League teams appoint managers from abroad who have never managed in the PL before.

What about Graham Alexander? He knows the club, he's a leader and he's done well in his managerial career so far. I know some people would be underwhelmed with such an appointment but just thought I'd throw it out there I actually think he'd do really well for us.

Is management career in.... The Ryman Isthmian Football League Division One South Division

no jump at all to the Premier League. As for knowing the club - the bloody tea lady knows the club and I wouldn't give it her either.

Rodneyyouplonker · Post by **Rodneyyouplonker** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:13 pm

Wat about Nigel Adkins not seen him mentioned.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:19 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:Is management career in.... The Ryman Isthmian Football League Division One South Division no jump at all to the Premier League. As for knowing the club - the bloody tea lady knows the club and I wouldn't give it her either.

He manages at League One level. It's not the Premier League but that's the point I'm making - do we need a manager with Premier League experience? If so, we're limiting ourselves a great deal. Do you prefer a David Moyes or a Nigel Pearson, for example? I don't.

Read my post again. You'll see that my reasoning of him knowing the club is not the only reason. However, I do think it can be beneficial in some cases.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:24 pm

If Dyche were to leave tomorrow - and I don't think he will be doing, by the way, then I think we'd be looking for a manager who is familiar with the Premier League, understands and is comfortable working with an almost exclusively British squad and mentality. I also think that, whilst every manager adds a slightly different spin on things, we're looking for someone who can offer continuity with the template Dyche has established.

That is quite a specific ask and, despite his travails since leaving Everton, I'd say Moyes is the most obvious available candidate who ticks those boxes. I don't think he got a fair crack at United, and whilst he didn't succeed at either Sociedad or Sunderland, both were in their own ways extremely tough gigs. You'd have to talk to him - but the real question would be whether you could look him in the eye and know he still has the mojo and authority that made him such a sought after commodity when he was at Everton.

Of the other mooted candidates, Monk is a decent shout. His record at Swansea was OK - I think his win rate was about 1 in 3, which is good for a manager at Swansea's level in the Premier League, and that includes the very poor run at the end that got him sacked - but his record over one season at Leeds was pretty impressive, in taking a team who had never threatened to be in the mix under Cellino before and making them genuine play-off challengers.

Despite his age, I'd also say Hodgson is worth a shout - he ticks all the boxes I mentioned earlier on and has a very good record in the Premier League with clubs of a similar profile to Burnley - and Pardew also merits consideration: he was being touted for the England job less than a year ago.

Of the managers in employment, Rowett, Bruce and Hughton would be worth would undoubtedly be on the list if they were available, but I'm not sure any of them would be. If we're looking left field, then I mentioned Michael Duff the other day and whilst it is probably too early for him, he offers continuity and I know his stock inside the club is high. I'd also mention Gary Neville in dispatches - sullied by his spell in Spain though he may be, he's frequently been admiring of Dyche's drilling of Burnley's team, worked with a similar operator in Hodgson within England and might find it easier to impose his sort of mentality in England. With an experienced assistant (Phelan?) he might be an interesting proposition, but I suspect he's probably parked the management thing for now.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:31 pm

Not

Moyes
Coyle
Pearson
Giggs
Alexander (not ready)
Laudrup

Who's left ?

Monk ?

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:18 pm

I'm struggling to see the attraction regards Monk. Began reasonably well at club where he was well established and inherited a decent squad. Started to go wrong relatively quickly. At Leeds he had a play-off spot in his grasp and failed to see it through. Couldn't see Dyche letting an opportunity like that slip through his fingers.

Moyes as has been said his default position of negativity had Sunderland with one foot already in the Championship before a ball was kicked. Belief has been a huge factor in our success. Far from convinced he could instill it.

If we had to replace SD Hughton would be top of the wanted list by some distance. Sadly whether or not he would be tempted imagine his integrity would stop him walking out on Brighton and leaving them in an awkward situation.

Would be happy with Martin O'Neill. After that would have a proper look at Jokanovic and Rowett but can't think of any other decent UK based candidates.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:25 pm

Id have Moyes, he didn't do to badly with United as has been proven since he left. He didn't receive backing at Sunderland at all, he knew that without backing, they were heading one way.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:27 pm

Dyche is staying. I said so and that's that.

Duffer_ · Post by **Duffer_** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:30 pm

Another vote for O'Neill. Instant respect from most of the dressing room, has good insight into our squad's strengths and weaknesses, and a career win rate of over 40% and that's excluding Celtic.

Rather have Dyche though.

UTC!

bfc1984 · Post by **bfc1984** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:31 pm

We need someone who can give us stability and who will stay for the long term.Brent peters up at bacup is perfect served bacup well for years,if we can come to a agreement with bacup it's a no brainer.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:32 pm

If O'Neill were interested he's a good shout. I have my doubts he would be though.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:42 pm

I think two people are irreplaceable on our club, Dyche and Keane (although I WOULD like to endorse Vegas's sentiment and vote for Laudrup if we need a replacement).

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:43 pm

I think we'd be foolish to not consider Moyes, his stock has fallen to probably it's lowest after a few bad seasons, but he did preform minor miracles at Everton and I'm not quick to forget it.

The United job was a poisoned chalice, he did no worse than the "world class manager" that replaced him. I also think managing abroad for someone with Moyes sort of style was never really going to work, but as others have said the most concerning thing has to be Sunderland. He looked like he'd lost his soul at some points this year, and they certainly played like it. That being said he inherited a shocking side, and he tried to play it safe by signing a few old heads he knew. It's hard to say if he's completely lost it or if the old Moyes is in their somewhere.

With our stability he's one of the only credible candidates I could see with the ability to "build an empire" here. He transformed Everton. Pardew reminds me a bit of Coyle, we'd improve short term, but as soon as it went south he'd jump ship. Monk is okay, but also represents risk. Woy has proved he's a very capable manager, but I'm not sure I just think he's a little too old.

Considering we will talk to a few parties should he leave, and no one seems to be an immediate credible standout. I think I'd be okay if we talked to:
Hodgson
Moyes
Monk
And any of the very unlikely candidates such as Hughton or Ranieri (yes I can dream).

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:43 pm

Mike Bassett. That's all we would deserve if we let SD go.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:46 pm

And what's this deal with Palace interviewing with Palace, anyhow? Isn't it a sideways move. Maybe south London is closer to Kettering than Burnley, and it's another situation like Eddie Howe where the wife calls the shots.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:48 pm

Palace interviewing with Palace. That's a good one. Or maybe it was Ray Parlour.

lakesclaret · Post by **lakesclaret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:50 pm

What about the carpet chested wife beating Welsh wing wizard? Then again we'd simply be a stepping stone for a "name " but newbie manager

JinkingJames · Post by **JinkingJames** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:52 pm

I don't think Dyche will go but if he does O'Neill or Jokanovic for me ( if he brings Sessangnon with him).

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:02 pm

Can anyone on here , hand on heart, say they suggested " Sean Dyche " when wee Eddie left ?

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:08 pm

Good one, random. On the other hand, we could have gone for Agent Keane. Then, where would we be? One just never knows in these situations.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:08 pm

Jokanovic would be my choice....

I like the style he's getting Fulham to play and think that the chance to join a stable Premier League club could be enough to move him north.

Also he could bring Tom Cairney and Marcus Bettinelli with him!

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:17 pm

It would be interesting to look back at what names were being bandied about before SD was appointed. I'll confess to being totally underwhelmed by his appointment, but am happy to admit now that I was, as with so many other things, completely wrong.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:21 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:Not

Moyes
Coyle
Pearson
Giggs
Alexander (not ready)
Laudrup

Who's left ?

Monk ?

Nigel Clogh

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:22 pm

Oops Clough

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:28 pm

bfc1984 wrote:We need someone who can give us stability and who will stay for the long term.Brent peters up at bacup is perfect served bacup well for years,if we can come to a agreement with bacup it's a no brainer.

I think Brent is already lined up for the next one in at Deadwood.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:57 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Can anyone on here , hand on heart, say they suggested " Sean Dyche " when wee Eddie left ?

Who?

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:04 pm

Martin O 'Neil. He would at least know 4 of our team well

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:05 pm

Martin O'neil, the man that nearly bankrupt Aston Villa - he's as bad as Redknapp for signing players. No thanks
Moyes, the basic you would want from a manager is to motivate players to put a shift in like Dyche does - Moyes has failed in his last 3 jobs to do that with much better players than we have. No thanks
Monk - really enjoy his style of play, still don't see the massive attraction though

Not quite sure where we look if Dyche does leave (which he will at some stage be it this season or next)

Belgianclaret · Post by **Belgianclaret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:09 pm

I know a very good Belgian manager, could work well with Defour

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:25 pm

People have short memories about O'Neil
LEICESTER-got them to the PL, won League Cup twice,4 top 10 finishes
CELTIC 213 wins-OK you will say "yeah but that's Scottish football", but he got them to the EUFA final
VILLA-6th position in the PL for 3 years running, and League Cup finalist. Look at them now-how many managers since he left. Must be at least 7
SUNDERLAND-13th
EIRE-one of the stand out performances of the EUROS last year. He has helped build a seriously good team
Clearly a good reader of people, a man motivator and a great understanding of the game

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:18 am

Brendan Rodgers

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:27 am

Gary Neville,have you ever watched him on Monday night football ..he's brilliant,and he might as well bring his side kick Carragher...he's brilliant to.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:29 am

randomclaret2 wrote:Can anyone on here , hand on heart, say they suggested " Sean Dyche " when wee Eddie left ?

I threw his name in because I thought he'd done a good job at Watford and been treated badly. I mentioned him to someone who thought he was a good shout. BUT when he was one of the three on the final shortlist (with Pressley & Lomas) I have to admit to being underwhelmed. Shows how wrong you can be; I thought Waddle would be a good appointment too.

Regarding some of the names mentioned on this thread there are some getting a big no from me.

Moyes - Hardly inspires does he? His talking down of the prospects at Sunderland last August were frightening. Maybe he's had his day.
Monk - Considered the cause of the slide at Swansea by many. Not for me.
Hodgson - Dear me no. I remember Bobby Zamora on Goals on Sunday back around 2010 saying the players were bored rigid with his training methods. Having watched England under Hodgson, nothing seems to have changed.
Alexander - Can't think of a reason why. He's done OK at League One level.

So basically, I've no idea who I'd like or want to come in if the worst happened.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:30 am

Roberto Mancini

The Enclosure · Post by **The Enclosure** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:34 am

Chris Coleman anyone?

MattBFC · Post by **MattBFC** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:40 am

I like O'Neill but just don't think he'd want the job.

Had Huddersfield not been promoted I would have said Wagner but he wouldn't be interested now.

Slavisa Jokanovic for me (the Fulham boss) would get my vote. When you consider he took over a team fighting relegation and took them to safety during his first season. He then loses the two players scoring all their goals (McCormack and Dembele) but still takes them to a top 6 finish while playing lovely football. He also got Watford promoted in his time there (plus former Watford managers done well for us recently) so overall, he would definitely ease the blow of losing Sean.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I threw his name in because I thought he'd done a good job at Watford and been treated badly. I mentioned him to someone who thought he was a good shout. BUT when he was one of the three on the final shortlist (with Pressley & Lomas) I have to admit to being underwhelmed. Shows how wrong you can be; I thought Waddle would be a good appointment too.

Regarding some of the names mentioned on this thread there are some getting a big no from me.

Moyes - Hardly inspires does he? His talking down of the prospects at Sunderland last August were frightening. Maybe he's had his day.
Monk - Considered the cause of the slide at Swansea by many. Not for me.
Hodgson - Dear me no. I remember Bobby Zamora on Goals on Sunday back around 2010 saying the players were bored rigid with his training methods. Having watched England under Hodgson, nothing seems to have changed.
Alexander - Can't think of a reason why. He's done OK at League One level.

So basically, I've no idea who I'd like or want to come in if the worst happened.

I think that critique of the above managers is generally pretty harsh (apart from on Alexander, which seems a pretty fair reflection)and reflects the level to which current perception influences our views on managers. Regarding Moyes - it is only 4 years since he was hand picked by Alex Ferguson to replace him at Old Trafford, after a brilliant decade at Everton. I''m not sure he was even given the chance to fail at Old Trafford, and his spell at Sociedad was about as successful as most British managers' spells abroad. His spell at Sunderland is certainly a black spot given how meekly they surrendered, but in truth it was a bit of a poisoned challis and what he actually said in that now famous interview was, "we've struggled for the last 4 years, and I'm being asked to work with the same players, so why would things be any different this season?" In other words - give me some money to do better. It is hardly a particularly unusual or negative statement. He might have lost his mojo a bit (and that is certainly a question mark over him), but he's only 54 so to say he's over the hill given his pedigree seems to me to be remarkable. His overall win % as a manager is over 40%, which is generally regarded as decent.

As for Monk, he took over Swansea when they were in a slump (12th but 2 points above the relegation zone), stabilised them and then finished the next season in 8th position, which was remarkable. Even after the slump that got them sacked, he still managed to end his time there with a win % of 36 percent (28 wins and 32 losses in 77 games), so to write him off based on the last couple of months at Swansea seems odd to me, particularly when he bounced back quite impressively at Leeds.

As for Hodgson - age is against him, and he may have been too rigid in his methods for the England team (although do you think he does that much more drill work than Sean Dyche? The systems and structures are pretty similar) but even if Zamora was bored in training, he probably wasn't by the fact the team were en route to a Europa League final. His record at both West Brom at Fulham - similar jobs to Burnley - is excellent (about a 38% win rate across the two).

None of which goes to show that we should appoint any of those 3 as manager, but I'd argue that all 3 have CVs that warrant a level of consideration, and particularly Monk and Moyes (given their age) ought to be managers that any Burnley fan looks at with an open mind. The same goes for Alan Pardew, who is the other out of work English candidate who is probably realistic (42% career win rate, mostly in the Premier League).

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:53 pm

Monk I think.

Just can't get enthused about anybody else to be honest, and if SD goes, I'd like us to move for him really quickly.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:54 pm

If I could pick any manager that I would like to manage us it'd be Chris Hughton but he wouldn't leave Brighton.
Rodgers isn't a bad shout but he's at a club where he's going to regularly win trophies and play in Europe, he wouldn't leave Celtc.

Outsider but he might fancy it is Lucian Favre. Did well with Nice last season.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:57 pm

As for Jokanovic, his record demands consideration on the same basis as above (as does Wagner's), but I do worry that his fairly expansive and technical style of play may not be terribly well suited to our rather British squad and culture. I think we all want to see us evolve into a more sophisticated team, but we have to be wary of appointing someone whose methods mean we will try and do that too fast and end up with confusion in the camp.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:59 pm

Which is another reason to appoint Monk.

Plays a different way, but will also link up pretty seamlessly with the Dyche mentality.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:59 pm

Or out of our league but Thomas Tuchel... He'd probably see us as a stepping stone if he could be convinced but....

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:03 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Which is another reason to appoint Monk.

Plays a different way, but will also link up pretty seamlessly with the Dyche mentality.

Tend to agree with that Lancaster. Monk and Moyes would be top of my list of candidates to talk to, possibly followed by Pardew and Rowett and O'Neill should the latter two be interested in leaving their current jobs.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:09 pm

Course, this is all hypothetical........