Defour to stay put?

[ClaretTony]

If Steven Defour had missed a 6 pointer for feeling 'unwell' there'd be all kinds of nonsense going round.

'He seemed fine enough when he had his picture taken by his missus on instagram'
'He doesn't want to be here'
'He thinks he's better than us'

So Tom should play when he's been ill overnight but Defour is fine because his missus pictures him on instagram. Brilliant.

I have my views on Defour. He's clearly a quality player and we saw that at times last season, but he's also, in my view, a player who is not committed enough. I found the substitution at Southampton bizarre and then came the more recent one against Leicester baffling after half an hour.

If we had a totally committed, totally fit Defour then he would make a hell of a difference to the team, that's obvious. Sadly, in my view, we don't.

[ClaretTony]

Would be good to see what he's like if he got a full pre season under his belt. Pretty sure Dyche mentioned early last season that Wenger had said it can take foreign players a season to get used to the physicality and pace (not sure I believe that myself).

There are obviously a lot of question marks over his fitness levels. A good footballer though.

Wenger has always said that re: foreign players coming into the Premier League.

[CleggHall]

You would think Defour was the new Jimmy McIlroy judging by the comments on this board over the past 6 months. Major difference was Mac could play, was exceedingly fit and fast over 10-15 metres and turned out even when half fit.

[UpTheBeehole]

So Tom should play when he's been ill overnight but Defour is fine because his missus pictures him on instagram. Brilliant

That was just an example of the ridiculous nature of Defour's critics, as he gets labelled with all sorts simply because he has a bit of a high-end lifestyle.

It's the same with Gray. He was in America a week and a half before a game and there was some right rubbish on here saying he'd be jetlagged for the next match.

You can go all the way back to Tyrone Mears' team picture for the absolute nonsense which comes out of people's mouths about players they don't like.

And that's not forgetting the 'training's a joke' thing at the start of the season we got promoted to the Premier League, just because at that point some people didn't like Coyle.

[taio]

It was a really poor example/comparison to be fair though

[ClaretTony]

That was just an example of the ridiculous nature of Defour's critics, as he gets labelled with all sorts simply because he has a bit of a high-end lifestyle.

The Heaton one was ridiculous for a player who has hardly missed a game in four years. Who has mentioned Defour's lifestyle by the way?

I remain convinced that Defour would play every week if his attitude to it matched his undoubted quality.

[UpTheBeehole]

It was a really poor example/comparison to be fair though

But can you not imagine the comments from Burnley fans if Defour missed a huge game for being 'unwell'?

[IndigoLake]

I think it's best we get rid to be honest. I think he's a talented player but I don't think Defour staying is beneficial to him or us unless the situation changes dramatically.

[NRC]

the question I posed is still not answered. What is it he needs to do specifically on the pitch?
Improve attitude is not an answer, the question lies in tactical approach - what does he need to do? If it was just attitude, then that's just surface.

[taio]

But can you not imagine the comments from Burnley fans if Defour missed a huge game for being 'unwell'?

I can't imagine how anyone could sensibly complain about a player being poorly - especially if they have almost been an ever-present in the team - given the extent to which a player's ability diminishes when sick. I don't think people have really had a go at Defour - in fact it's often been quite the opposite, so I don't really know where you're coming from.

[1fatclaret]

My opinion, my eyes plus a bit of info I'd been given. I seriously believe that he is ruled out with injury when he's fit enough to play.

I think that's an appalling accusation to make of any footballer, never mind one who has had such a bad injury he's lucky to be running again, never mind playing top flight football in the premier league. How do you come to the conclusion he's ruling himself out? With bfccrazy being our "man in the know" why has he not come to the same conclusion?

It's pure guesswork from you and pretty poor form.

[Raconteur]

I find Claret tony's view on Defour quite baffling. Its as if you have some type of vendetta against him( for some unknown reason). How do you know he doesnt want to play( come on admit, you made this up) , wants to come off the pitch( again, just blatantly made up)No one at the club has given you this info and do not dare make out that someone has. The majority of people on this board know that Claret tony is well known for making out that he knows more than he does. You could actually class your comments as defamatory ( slanderous or libellous) r.e - any other player would be able to play with the same injuries. They could be seen as very serious comments , if seen by the wrong person. You are making him out to be some kind of work shy, injury feigning player, while having no factual back up.
Another myth regarding Defour is his non existant work rate. This is not true, he just uses his footballing brain and uses his work rate in the right places.You dont have to run around the pitch like a headless chicken to be classed as having good work rate.

[Sidney1st]

Wenger has always said that re: foreign players coming into the Premier League.

It took Ozil over a season to settle and get used to the league.
Arsenal fans were fed up with him before he hit peak form.

Maybe its the same with Defour.

[Belgianclaret]

Pity many on here seem to jump on the negative bandwagon after Defour was seemingly ditched by the gaffer after WBA away.

In October 2016, Defour stated that he came to Burnley for the main reason that SD made it clear to him that he was wanted and that we would build a team around him. I think the games he played at the start showed that he is more than capable to do so.

Despite what many on here now think of him (after idolizing him at the start - and mainly because they feel that supporting Defour is considered as criticizing the gaffer - he is still a great player and a great playmaker. Plus, to date he is still our player and despite what the management think of him, it is their duty to make the best of our assets.

You just need to play to his strengths, namely play the ball in his feet, rather than expect him to be a running machine like Boyd & Scotty.

Ah well, maybe he came a bit too early as we are not yet ready to alter our way of playing.

No disrespect to Westwood, who is a good addition, but he is not the same type of player at all.

Just consider for once which international player of his ilk we could actually sign in his place?

Look forward to getting slaughtered myself now for things I didn't post or didn't even imply

[Sidney1st]

Spot on Belgian.

Defour is a clear step above other players.

[Tall Paul]

I find Claret tony's view on Defour quite baffling. Its as if you have some type of vendetta against him( for some unknown reason). How do you know he doesnt want to play( come on admit, you made this up) , wants to come off the pitch( again, just blatantly made up)No one at the club has given you this info and do not dare make out that someone has. The majority of people on this board know that Claret tony is well known for making out that he knows more than he does. You could actually class your comments as defamatory ( slanderous or libellous) r.e - any other player would be able to play with the same injuries. They could be seen as very serious comments , if seen by the wrong person. You are making him out to be some kind of work shy, injury feigning player, while having no factual back up.
Another myth regarding Defour is his non existant work rate. This is not true, he just uses his footballing brain and uses his work rate in the right places.You dont have to run around the pitch like a headless chicken to be classed as having good work rate.

Hi Steven.

[Raconteur]

Hi Steven.

Hi Small Paul.

[keith1879]

Watching the games, seeing his body language, and his wanting to come off. Let's put it this way, if any of the players had his supposed injuries, they'd play.

Anybody who watched our home games must surely agree with this. Defour has been one big sulk from start to finish. Yes he has shown some delightful touches but so have many other players down the years and it's no good if they don't want to do it. I would love to see him show that ability week in and week out but he has to look interested ....and he hasn't done for a long time.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Disappointing to see one of our players being accused of feigning injuries.

[Reecey1987]

Do you think dyche will give him another chance or do you think hes burned his last bridge ?

[keith1879]

You said that Defour misses games through injuries you KNOW he'd be able to play through.

Tom Heaton missed one of the biggest games of the season because his tummy was a lickle bit poorly.

No slavver for Heaton though.

It's quite apparent from every minute of every game that Heaton wants to play for Burnley. It's largely apparent from some minutes of some games that Defour isn't that bothered. When has he ever looked like he wants to fight for his place? (That was rhetorical - he never has).

[Claretmatt4]

Definitely too early in our development as a club for Defour as our style of play strangles his strengths - please dont take that as a criticism either, we just are not expansive enough and rely more on graft than guile.

Dyche recognised that and made his decision and it's been a huge factor in us staying up.

I can only hope we are able to change out approach to be a little more expansive and expressive, at least at home, to allow Defour to impact games.

He is so far ahead of any other Burnley player in terms of ability it's scary. The best I've seen is Blake and the two are totally incomparable. If we can get it to work hell be brilliant.

If Shaqiri had signed for Stoke in 2010 it wouldn't have worked. They have had to earn the right to take a bit more risks and almost assume safety is close to a given, we're a long way off yet in my opinion.

Whatever happens thank you for last season Steven!

[Blackrod]

Defour is a cracking player who would excel in another team. We do not play to his strengths. We could have done in more games last season. He might not be prepared to run around without the ball as much as others but SD is quite inflexible in his approach. We have to be able to find ways of accommodating quality players or players with this level of skill.

[TVC15]

Some surprising comments on this thread.

Defour's body language was not great at certain times this season - because he was either being benched or on the bench. I'd expect that of most players who were being substituted after 60 minutes. Just imagine how much the fans would be slating him if they saw him laughing and smiling sat on the bench !

I do not believe for one minute that other players would be playing with the injuries Defour had - in fact I think that's a ridiculous comment to make and completely unfounded.

I believe Defour is the best technical player in our team and we are a better team with a player of his quality and passing ability.

However, I have said on previous threads about Defour that the injury he got in his foot is well documented as career threatening.

As we have seen with lots of players who have major injuries they often pick up regular injuries for the rest of their career. The physical nature of the Premier League together with how much work our Burnley players have to put in against much stronger sides has made it harder for Defour than I am guessing either Dyche or Defour expected.

I am not sure that in Defour's case it will get better because he has a season under his belt as I do not think physically his body can cope with the Premier League.

For this reason I think we should cut our losses as I do not think we would get the games out of him to justify his fee and salary.

[boatshed bill]

I never had you down as one of the many body language experts on here, CT.

[Smallpaul]

Hi Small Paul.

Sup?

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Defour has great qualities but also unfortunately has the heart the size of a pea

[The Enclosure]

We all know how hard Sean works the team in training.....is it possible that some players just cannot handle that intensity of training every day and it drains them of energy for matches . Not all players are made like George Boyd...
Maybe Dyche has to accept that Defour is a playmaker and does not need to be sprinting all over the pitch for 90 minutes .
Does anyone remember Tommy Cassidy playing for us.he hardly put a foot out of the centre circle but he was a brilliant playmaker and most of the moves went through him, he barely broke into a sweat all match.

[Raconteur]

Sup?

Nothing Homie !

[Smallpaul]

Nothing Homie !

Safe

[claretspice]

Firstly - I heard what Tony has said on this thread from more than one different (credible) source towards the end of last season. It was widely rumoured at the end of last season that there was some form of rift between player and management, so I don't really know why anyone would be rejecting out of hand what Tony says without any better explanation for that reported rift.

If Defour is expecting to stay, then hopefully he throws himself into pre-season, has looked after himself like never before in the off season, and therefore hits 12 August in the physical condition of his life. If he does, then he's undoubtedly still got a future with us because he's the best technician at the club and he'd be a huge asset. If he doesn't, then I think we all know what at dim view Dyche will take of it and we'll probably not see him again.

At the end of the day, Defour wasn't available enough last season and didn't do enough when he was available. If had, and it was all down to Dyche being pig headed, then if the article is correct there'd be a queue of Premier League teams beating down our door to give us £8 million and show us the error of our ways. That queue isn't there.

He started the season well enough at Turf Moor, but badly on the road and he was dropped after the West Brom game because he was off the pace whenever WBA broke on us, and the contrast with how comparatively solid we'd been in midfield at Old Trafford the previous week was stark. It wasn't due to a lack of effort or commitment, but he seemed to me to be regularly caught out by the pace and intensity with which teams attack in the Premier League (understandably given he'd only played in the Belgian and Portuguese leagues before). And he wasn't available enough - either to play or train - to make the adjustment. This summer gives him a chance to address all that - but only if his head is with it. The physical adjustment to the premier league is one thing, but I suspect a large part of the problem is his mentality after all his injury problems, and that's the other thing he's got to get over to make it with us. Fingers crossed he does, but I'm a touch sceptical.

[Blackrod]

I think post 78 hits the nail on the head although as a fan we don't see training. I'm sure if there was an attitude issue he would have been long gone. We need to be able to accommodate at least one flair player even in a team if runners.

[bumba]

I think it was Leicester at home when he was playing on the left wing, weather was horrible, his shoulders were down, he looked like he was sulking then he just turned round signalled to come off an grabbed his hamstring, he hadn't even sprinted. It was a clear sign to me he just didn't want to be on the pitch. Heard it off several sources that he doesn't wanna be here but if you couldn't tell off his own body language yourself then I'm not sure what it takes. Its a shame because he is a talent an was a pleasure watching him when he had his moments

[Bin Ont Turf]

Like I've said before something changed part way through last season and it was probably Defour's attitude.

It's clear that Dyche wanted him on the pitch early on in the season, playing him in three different positions (even including being wide in a four).

It's not a bloody holiday in the sun coming to play for Burnley, you have to be at it mentally and physically. He must have known this before he signed.

He should stay and show us why every Burnley fan thinks he's quality and wants him to succeed.

[KRBFC]

Disappointing to see one of our players being accused of feigning injuries.

Disgraceful accusations tbh

[ksrclaret]

Not fussed about him anymore.

When he first arrived, especially after Liverpool, I thought he was going to be head and shoulders our player of the year. Turned out he had all the tools to be, but his attitude stank, frankly. Not very impressed with all these interviews either bemoaning his previous injuries and how he could have ended up at Utd, or how he's looking to move to China eventually etc etc.

Quality player no doubt, but obviously not committed to playing for Burnley.

[DCWat]

Another feather in Dyche's cap if he can get the most from Defour. It would benefit both sides hugely if he can manage it.

[joey13]

Can't understand why others can't see he clearly can't be arsed , bearing in mind he's on about 30k per week it's a disgrace , I would imagine Dyche thinks the same .

[Sidney1st]

I suppose it would be a good idea to play him central midfield instead of the flank.
That's where we'd get the best out of him and may explain some of his issues.

Think Scholes and England when a player feels he's being put in the wrong place.

[claretspice]

Disappointing to see one of our players being accused of feigning injuries.

That isnt the accusation as I understand it. The accusation is that he didn't accept the club's medics view of when he was fit again, or whether the knock was sufficiently minor for him to play through (any pro will tell you that 90% of the time they played with some sort of knock or tweak). Thats a very different accusation and it is a very important distinction to get clear.

Nor, incidentally does it mean Defour's motivation was to get out of games. More likely he wanted to be more cautious given his injuries than the vast majority of players, and perhaps in the club's view far too over cautious.

[Quickenthetempo]

Spice do you really think the midfield looked solid at Old Trafford?
A record number of shots against us with us never bothering their goal, all this against 10 men for over half an hour.
Heaton was outstanding and Ibra had his biggest off day ever.
We couldn't of complained if we got hit for 7.

[Cornwallclaret]

Tommy Cassidy......omg...with reference to post 78.. I definately remember him,decent player in his prime maybe but at Burnley it was obvious he was only here for a last pay check..We played everything through him and he never broke sweat or left the centre circle...bejesus,we were bad cos he was a lazy ,over weight,over paid and well past it has been that wasn't fit to wear a Burnley shirt..and I yelled that at him too away at Torquay on a dismal 2-0 defeat...
As for D4... I'm sure Dyche knows best
UTC

[claretspice]

Spice do you really think the midfield looked solid at Old Trafford?
A record number of shots against us with us never bothering their goal, all this against 10 men for over half an hour.
Heaton was outstanding and Ibra had his biggest off day ever.
We couldn't of complained if we got hit for 7.

They had lots of shots, nearly scored several times from crosses, but i can't remember a midfield runner getting beyond our two central midfielders all afternoon, with 10 or 11 opposite. Heaton made 3 outstanding saves, and Ibra missed 2 great chances. But the vast majority of those 30-odd shots were made more difficult by burnley midfielders holding their discipine, tracking runners and getting blocks in.

WBA was of course a very different game but the way in which their midfield got beyond ours where WBA attacked in that first half was in frightening contrast to the way we stubbornly dug in at Old Trafford.

[JohnMcGreal]

I think it was Leicester at home when he was playing on the left wing, weather was horrible, his shoulders were down

In fairness, I have some sympathy for him there. It must have felt pretty insulting for a player of Defour's ability to be stuck out on the wing on more than one occasion, while Barton stank the place out in centre midfield most weeks.

Clearly things weren't right towards the end, but I'm not comfortable laying the blame at the door of one party alone. He let us down in some ways, and we let him down in others.

Hopefully it can all get sorted out this summer.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

I think it was Leicester at home when he was playing on the left wing, weather was horrible, his shoulders were down, he looked like he was sulking then he just turned round signalled to come off an grabbed his hamstring, he hadn't even sprinted. It was a clear sign to me he just didn't want to be on the pitch. Heard it off several sources that he doesn't wanna be here but if you couldn't tell off his own body language yourself then I'm not sure what it takes. Its a shame because he is a talent an was a pleasure watching him when he had his moments

That's basically such a pile of stinking crap. Due to all games being on live in the States, I still have it on DVR. He chases back as they get in behind down our left, he makes not one , but TWO strong tackles, the second one being where he overstretches, and comes up rubbing his thigh.

I don't have an opinion either way on Defour, but what makes me annoyed is when people blatantly bullshit to back up their opinion.

[RVclaret]

In fairness, I have some sympathy for him there. It must have felt pretty insulting for a player of Defour's ability to be stuck out on the wing on more than one occasion, while Barton stank the place out in centre midfield most weeks.

Clearly things weren't right towards the end, but I'm not comfortable laying the blame at the door of one party alone. He let us down in some ways, and we let him down in others.

Hopefully it can all get sorted out this summer.

Agree with this 100%.

[Colburn_Claret]

I'd love for him to stay, I just hope SD is. The report suggests we are happy to let him go, which isn't promising.
If he stays then surely we need to find a way to utilise his skills.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

If there's any management skill at our club, you'd think Garlick, Dyche and Defour would get in a room and have a "Ok, what do we have to do to make this successful" meeting. And they'll come to an agreement on it or it won't be possible. You know, like many meetings we have had at our jobs in our lives.

But to have one ego sticking rigidly to his guns and the other ego sticking rigidly to his guns is pretty bloody childish and shows a big weakness in the way we manage things.

[Bin Ont Turf]

If there's any management skill at our club, you'd think Garlick, Dyche and Defour would get in a room and have a "Ok, what do we have to do to make this successful" meeting. And they'll come to an agreement on it or it won't be possible. You know, like many meetings we have had at our jobs in our lives.

But to have one ego sticking rigidly to his guns and the other ego sticking rigidly to his guns is pretty bloody childish and shows a big weakness in the way we manage things.

What weakness?

I'm sure that there have been meetings but he's not Lionel Messi.

If there are ego's involved then there is only one winner.

[Vino blanco]

Sorry, he's not a true Claret. Decent player but if his heart is not with the club, then goodbye.