Why Gray isn't a big loss.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:13 am

Dejavu wrote:Not according to fellow posters he wasn't. He came =10th in the Clarets Mad Player of the Season league.
Anyone who thinks he has a good first touch needs to have a word with themselves. I can't think of a Prem striker who has a worse one and it got worse last year not better.
He simply doesn't have the skill set to be a top class striker.

Who cares about how good your first touch is when you're lethal infront of goal. Are strikers judged on how good there 1st touch is? Do you believe managers say ''fu*k the goals, hows his first touch?"

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:31 am

Strange that it seems to divide between those that think he's crap and those that think he's irreplaceable.
He was never crap, although he does have a lot to work on. He missed a lot of chances last season when it looked as easy to score, so he definitely isn't deadly,but that's all part of developing. He certainly is replaceable, although it's not guaranteed that we will.
When the window shuts is the time to judge wether this was a good or bad deal.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:08 am

KRBFC wrote:Who cares about how good your first touch is when you're lethal infront of goal. Are strikers judged on how good there 1st touch is? Do you believe managers say ''fu*k the goals, hows his first touch?"

Lethal in front of goal

Did I miss him scoring 25 goals last season ? If he was even remotely lethal in front of goal he wouldn't have signed for Watford

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:00 am

Top Claret wrote:Watford have got a bargain with Gray. 18 million is jack **** in this market. Has I have said before Gray is wip and he will play at the very highest level.

Sorry but you are either deluded or know jack **** about football. I can't believe that you've just typed that and believed it. He is a top end championship forward, that's his level. I've been watching football 40 years and that guy will never be or play at the highest level. You need to go to specsavers. So you think he's up there with Shearer, sheringham, lineker, Beardsley, Owen, Ian Wright etc? You are a ******* balmpot.

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:06 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:Strange that it seems to divide between those that think he's crap and those that think he's irreplaceable.
He was never crap, although he does have a lot to work on. He missed a lot of chances last season when it looked as easy to score, so he definitely isn't deadly,but that's all part of developing. He certainly is replaceable, although it's not guaranteed that we will.
When the window shuts is the time to judge wether this was a good or bad deal.

It only divides between the people who know about football and don't. He certainly isn't crap but he's miles behind being top level, and although he might improve he will never be top level. People like KRBFC need to crawl out of their parents cellar and spend their time in real life. I still bet that KRBFC hasn't met anyone off here because he knows that in real life he's whats considered a dweeb. He hides behind an internet persona.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:12 am

His head was turned by the curse of modern-day football greedy agents.Once these parasites get in a player's head then it's a major problem for his club.We will get an upgrade but I hope if it's Danny it's only a loan as he has injury history that is unprodictable

Eloise Laws · Post by **Eloise Laws** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:46 am

Everybody has an opinion to which they are entitled, based on either what they have seen, what they have read, or what they have been told and that is on anything. The amount of keyboard bickering on this board if people don't agree with what a poster says is saying about any given topic beggars belief at times.
My opinion of Gray was, he was great in the Championship for us and served us well to get promotion to the Premier League, and after that he was a bit 'meh'

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:02 am

There's not many strikers around who bag 9 Premier League goals or more during their first season following promotion. If Gray's career tells you anything it's that he's constantly progressing and for that reason I think he would have got more this year. That kind of return won't be easy to replace and get instant success. We'll most likely be signing someone who is at the tail end of their top flight career or who has little experience of the Prem.

If that weren't enough of a reason why Gray will be missed, factor in how long it has previously taken Dyche's signings, particularly in this division, to settle into the system and make an impact. Most start life in and out of the side for a good number of months.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:40 am

Not disagreeing with any of that but he wanted to go.

I just don't what else we could do (apart from sign his replacement before he went obviously!)

It does look like Assombalonga was the replacement, which makes me wonder just what sort of wages are Middlesborough paying him?

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:50 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:A country mile our best striker.
His game was not all about goals. All season we looked a much better attacking threat when he played.
Plus the service he got was worse than laughable at times

In the champ yeh

In the prem barnes by far the best striker

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:54 am

Jimscho wrote:As I said to you on the other thread.If we had played silly buggers with Watford, the Gray deal could have fallen over and then we would have had a disgruntled player.Some deals may just have to be done when the opportunity arises.I don't know what happens in these transfer dealings and neither does any one else on here.

It didn't appear to be something which bothered Derby last August or Norwich last January.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:57 am

Lancasterclaret wrote: It does look like Assombalonga was the replacement, which makes me wonder just what sort of wages are Middlesborough paying him?

A quite staggering amount, it seems. I'd love for them to blow it this season. Their wage bill would be like a millstone around their neck after a couple of years in the Championship.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:06 am

Fans are critical of Gray saying that he will be no great loss because he lacked instant control and wasted numerous chances in front of goal. One thing that I am certain of is that Burnley will not be replacing Gray with a striker proven at PL level who has the ability to instantly control the ball and is a proven goalscorer with the pace to trouble defenders. These players are few and far between and way beyond our price range and Andre Gray would have been an important asset to our team this season even with his faults. The club realised this hence the substantially improved contract offer which he rejected.
We now have to move forwards and hope that we can find an adequate striker within our price range and wage budget that can do a job for us this season and provide cover for the strikers that remain.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:16 am

Losing your best striker is always a loss. And he was exactly that - by a landslide. Goals scored, sure - he and Vokes are similar. But losing Gray now makes us the easiest team in the entire league to defend against. Currently, our attacking options are target man times three. Of course, we'll bring someone else in but we still run the risk of being as one dimensional as last season.

Last season we just didn't play to Gray's strengths anywhere near enough and it was incredibly frustrating. Anyone looking at Gray can tell he thrives off running onto through balls played on the ground, beating the last man and finishing without much thought.

The service to him was consistently inadequate.

We had one of the most dynamic strikers in the league and we spent an entire season converting him into a target man.

So therefore people criticised his touch. But that's a little like saying Messi isn't great in goal. Of course Gray's touch looked poor - he was having to deal with wild punts from Ben Mee, sent to positions where Gray couldn't hurt the opposition.

And people say he was offside a lot. He was. A lot. But he was offside a lot mainly because he was asked to chase said wild punts so on the rare occasions we were able to counter, he was out of position. We never used his pace and power efficiently.

Sure, he can improve and he's definitely a diamond in the rough.

But play to his strengths and he'll score goals. I think he'll have a good season with Watford and in the future, I can see him getting an England cap.

Personally, I didn't want him to go. He's exactly the kind of player I like to watch - when used properly - but overall, it's probably for the best he left. Dyche was never going to play to his strengths so why would Gray want to hang around, playing with his back to goal, trying to control a blast up field with no midfield around him?

If I was Gray, I'd have been looking for a move since the final whistle of last season.

We'll sign another striker and everything will be fine.

But I can't help but think we wasted Andre Gray.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:42 am

If he gets an England cap, he will have nicked it.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:56 am

Funkydrummer wrote:He's that good, he's gone to Watford for crying out loud.

Not much of a step up, if any. More money probably and nearer the bright lights of London.

Will be interesting to see how he performs over the season, but I think we have robbed Watford
blind on this deal - well done the board. I don't think he really wanted to be here in the first
instance TBH.

Just my opinion mind.

It`s not necessarily a step-up and Gray probably knows that however...
a) doubles his money
b) will be playing in a system that will actually play to his strengths
c) is closer to his gal in the bright lights of London.

Gray was a very good striker and possibly the top of the tree with regards to strikers we can afford. Actually was thinking how the probable midfield 5 (away at least) would have suited Gray down to the ground.

A few people have suggested that Dyche will have a replacement `in mind`. I BLOODY WELL HOPE IT`S MORE THAN IN MIND!!!!

IF this move benefits Gray (and I hope it does for him as I`ve always liked him) then the NEXT move will be to a Top 8 club. I very much doubt that Dyche would get a job with any of the current incumbents of the top 8 places in the Premier League. Somewhere like a Palace would have been his `Watford` to put himself in the shop window.

Anyway, good luck Andre, thanks for firing us to the Premier League and UP THE CLARETS!!!!!!!!

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:58 am

Dejavu wrote:Not according to fellow posters he wasn't. He came =10th in the Clarets Mad Player of the Season league.
Anyone who thinks he has a good first touch needs to have a word with themselves. I can't think of a Prem striker who has a worse one and it got worse last year not better.
He simply doesn't have the skill set to be a top class striker.

He most certainly does. He has bags of potential that was never utilised at Burnley because of our tactics.

He is likely to go on and have a very good career in the Prem and will certainly score a lot of goals. Watford have got a cracking player and will probably use him to greater affect that we did.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:09 am

HelloHiGoodbye wrote:Losing your best striker is always a loss. And he was exactly that - by a landslide. Goals scored, sure - he and Vokes are similar. But losing Gray now makes us the easiest team in the entire league to defend against. Currently, our attacking options are target man times three. Of course, we'll bring someone else in but we still run the risk of being as one dimensional as last season.

Last season we just didn't play to Gray's strengths anywhere near enough and it was incredibly frustrating. Anyone looking at Gray can tell he thrives off running onto through balls played on the ground, beating the last man and finishing without much thought.

The service to him was consistently inadequate.

We had one of the most dynamic strikers in the league and we spent an entire season converting him into a target man.

So therefore people criticised his touch. But that's a little like saying Messi isn't great in goal. Of course Gray's touch looked poor - he was having to deal with wild punts from Ben Mee, sent to positions where Gray couldn't hurt the opposition.

And people say he was offside a lot. He was. A lot. But he was offside a lot mainly because he was asked to chase said wild punts so on the rare occasions we were able to counter, he was out of position. We never used his pace and power efficiently.

Sure, he can improve and he's definitely a diamond in the rough.

But play to his strengths and he'll score goals. I think he'll have a good season with Watford and in the future, I can see him getting an England cap.

Personally, I didn't want him to go. He's exactly the kind of player I like to watch - when used properly - but overall, it's probably for the best he left. Dyche was never going to play to his strengths so why would Gray want to hang around, playing with his back to goal, trying to control a blast up field with no midfield around him?

If I was Gray, I'd have been looking for a move since the final whistle of last season.

We'll sign another striker and everything will be fine.

But I can't help but think we wasted Andre Gray.

I should have saved my time and energy writing MY twopenneth and just `liked` this one. An ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON analysis.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:43 am

He is only a loss if we don't replace him with somebody as good or better or not at all.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:49 am

HelloHiGoodbye wrote:Losing your best striker is always a loss. And he was exactly that - by a landslide. Goals scored, sure - he and Vokes are similar. But losing Gray now makes us the easiest team in the entire league to defend against. Currently, our attacking options are target man times three. Of course, we'll bring someone else in but we still run the risk of being as one dimensional as last season.

Last season we just didn't play to Gray's strengths anywhere near enough and it was incredibly frustrating. Anyone looking at Gray can tell he thrives off running onto through balls played on the ground, beating the last man and finishing without much thought.

The service to him was consistently inadequate.

We had one of the most dynamic strikers in the league and we spent an entire season converting him into a target man.

So therefore people criticised his touch. But that's a little like saying Messi isn't great in goal. Of course Gray's touch looked poor - he was having to deal with wild punts from Ben Mee, sent to positions where Gray couldn't hurt the opposition.

And people say he was offside a lot. He was. A lot. But he was offside a lot mainly because he was asked to chase said wild punts so on the rare occasions we were able to counter, he was out of position. We never used his pace and power efficiently.

Sure, he can improve and he's definitely a diamond in the rough.

But play to his strengths and he'll score goals. I think he'll have a good season with Watford and in the future, I can see him getting an England cap.

Personally, I didn't want him to go. He's exactly the kind of player I like to watch - when used properly - but overall, it's probably for the best he left. Dyche was never going to play to his strengths so why would Gray want to hang around, playing with his back to goal, trying to control a blast up field with no midfield around him?

If I was Gray, I'd have been looking for a move since the final whistle of last season.

We'll sign another striker and everything will be fine.

But I can't help but think we wasted Andre Gray.

And now it's Ben Mee's fault that Gray can't control the ball.Ive seen it all now.I could control a ball better than Gray and I'm disabled,partially sighted and 68.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:53 am

Jimscho wrote:And now it's Ben Mee's fault that Gray can't control the ball.Ive seen it all now.I could control a ball better than Gray and I'm disabled,partially sighted and 68.

Congratulations on interpreting the post how you wanted to interpret it.

thomo27 · Post by **thomo27** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:04 am

I don't think many would argue buying Gray when we did made the difference between promotion and no promotion. I also think it's reasonable to appreciate what Gray has done for Burnley and at the same time accept he is not good enough to take us further.
He is quick, strong and has a powerful shot, but to say he is top class is deluded. His control is poor, and spends too much time wrestling the centre half and not enough time focusing on the ball. His decision making isn't great either, he is best when there is no time to think.
I'm glad he was here, but not particularly sorry to see him go, as long as we get a replacement, and there are quite a few around, I'm happy.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:06 am

Duplicated so edited.

COBBLE · Post by **COBBLE** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:47 am

His one option penalty taking down the middle is going to be found out. But his goal at Palace was one of the most exciting I've ever seen.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:20 pm

HiroshimaClaret wrote:It`s not necessarily a step-up and Gray probably knows that however...
a) doubles his money
b) will be playing in a system that will actually play to his strengths
c) is closer to his gal in the bright lights of London.

Gray was a very good striker and possibly the top of the tree with regards to strikers we can afford. Actually was thinking how the probable midfield 5 (away at least) would have suited Gray down to the ground.

A few people have suggested that Dyche will have a replacement `in mind`. I BLOODY WELL HOPE IT`S MORE THAN IN MIND!!!!

IF this move benefits Gray (and I hope it does for him as I`ve always liked him) then the NEXT move will be to a Top 8 club. I very much doubt that Dyche would get a job with any of the current incumbents of the top 8 places in the Premier League. Somewhere like a Palace would have been his `Watford` to put himself in the shop window.

Anyway, good luck Andre, thanks for firing us to the Premier League and UP THE CLARETS!!!!!!!!

I don't know about playing to his strengths. I said last season that he needs someone to thread the ball through to him, which we very rarely did. But looking at it logically, even if we had, there are defenders in the prem who are as quick, if not quicker than AG. He didn't offer a lot to that.
I'm hoping we get the best out of Brady and JBG this season, because with their ability to cross the ball, and Taylor's, if he gets the opportunity,I think Sam and Barnes will be a far better option for scoring goals.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:41 pm

Clarinetclaret wrote:It only divides between the people who know about football and don't. He certainly isn't crap but he's miles behind being top level, and although he might improve he will never be top level. People like KRBFC need to crawl out of their parents cellar and spend their time in real life. I still bet that KRBFC hasn't met anyone off here because he knows that in real life he's whats considered a dweeb. He hides behind an internet persona.

miles behind being top level? when did I ever say he was top level? you're making it up as you go along. I have met several posters on here they just dont know who I am, I have probably met alot more, we could even know each other.....

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:45 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I don't know about playing to his strengths. I said last season that he needs someone to thread the ball through to him, which we very rarely did. But looking at it logically, even if we had, there are defenders in the prem who are as quick, if not quicker than AG. He didn't offer a lot to that.
I'm hoping we get the best out of Brady and JBG this season, because with their ability to cross the ball, and Taylor's, if he gets the opportunity,I think Sam and Barnes will be a far better option for scoring goals.

It remains to be seen with AG, but I reckon you very much underestimating him. He is fast, powerful and a good finisher, you could tell last season that defenders were wary of him. I think he'll have a good season at Watford and it will become apparent to the doubters what he is about.

I'm also hoping for good things from Brady and JGB, but if Sam and Barnes are our regular foward line we are in big trouble. (Vokes needs a better partner).

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