Shane Long

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:56 pm

So Long would get the benefit of doubt that Gray wasn't going to get?

I'll never understand this forum during the transfer windows.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:59 pm

Gray had plenty of supporters so I don't understand your point. On everyone single subject people disagree. It's almost like you're suggesting most people had it in for Gray yet exactly the same people want to sign Long.

bfc1984 · Post by **bfc1984** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:00 pm

Great first touch,but not second.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:03 pm

There's been maybe jokes about our increasingly Irish contingent, but team spirit can be the difference in this league. A team of money seeking journeymen has often been the road to ruin for many a club

Maybe Dyche has a theory, band together a core group of dependable, experienced players who share a common nationality; like Burnley one that is not fashionable but have good spirit. Maybe this bond can be the thing that gets us over the line. A shrewd plan If it works...

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:06 pm

taio wrote:Gray had plenty of supporters so I don't understand your point. On everyone single subject people disagree. It's almost like you're suggesting most people had it in for Gray yet exactly the same people want to sign Long.

I'm not saying the exact same people.

I just don't understand why people would be so happy with this signing, he's an average striker in the PL, his goal scoring record in better teams suggest he wouldn't be much of an improvement on Gray.
Gray with better service at Watford will score more goals than Long would with us if this move happens.
I'd be willing to bet on that too.

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:09 pm

He'd score a hat full against bastards

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:13 pm

12 million is a lot of money to spend on a 30 year old that hasn't scored many goals. When we brought Gray in to the club we could all see the real potential to make a profit at some point in the future. The reality with Long is that we could spend 12 million on him, he could score as many goals as Gray did last season but his value is still likely to go down, but his wages will stay the same. I don't think it's a good move for the club in the long term.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:26 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:12 million is a lot of money to spend on a 30 year old that hasn't scored many goals. When we brought Gray in to the club we could all see the real potential to make a profit at some point in the future. The reality with Long is that we could spend 12 million on him, he could score as many goals as Gray did last season but his value is still likely to go down, but his wages will stay the same. I don't think it's a good move for the club in the long term.

To make up for Gray last season he only needs score 9 goals, say Long delivers but we have to sell him for half what we paid to a Championship side, we lose 6mil but gain 100m, sound math in my book.

Also a thing about potential: "latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success".

'May' being the crucial word; sometimes we get a Heaton or Keane, others we get a Juke or Chalobah who don't fit. It's a gamble every time.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:29 pm

Shane Long doesn't have potential, he's already proven he isn't going to score a high number of goals...

COBBLE · Post by **COBBLE** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:35 pm

Love this to happen.

lanky22222 · Post by **lanky22222** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:46 pm

If Long was to sign for Huddersfield or Brighton we'd all - not just the ones who'd like him - be in awe at how good a signing it would be for them.

He'd be quality, he's been scoring 10 goals per season consistently over his entire Prem career which is just what we need.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:04 am

Gray has the potential to do just the same, as does Vokes.

We need someone to do more than that.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:34 am

Is he Irish? ....yes!

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:43 am

CombatClaret wrote:To make up for Gray last season he only needs score 9 goals, say Long delivers but we have to sell him for half what we paid to a Championship side, we lose 6mil but gain 100m, sound math in my book.

Also a thing about potential: "latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success".

'May' being the crucial word; sometimes we get a Heaton or Keane, others we get a Juke or Chalobah who don't fit. It's a gamble every time.

It's not sound math if we have too many of these players. Aside from potentially Taylor, where is the next up and coming such as Keane? Our conveyor belt needs some re-stocking.

We are storing up a cash issue if we have too many depreciating assets, especially the way that the prices are and wages are rocketing.

It's a huge number but we know well enough that £100 million isn't a lot in this league. That income needs supplementing with sales to allow us to increase our spending power.

As it stands, and if Long is a target, we will have very few players that will increase in value and need to spend again sooner rather than later to replace them. We need more young blood now to go with the experience - we've enough wise old heads that will do them the world of good and help them adapt to this league.

It's time to splash some of the cash on three or four quality signings.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:24 am

Gray is a better striker than Long. Shane Long would have been a reasonable signing 2 or 3 years ago but we should be aiming for a much better player than Long now. We could have had Defoe for free ( yes large wages ) in the summer and that's the sort of player we should be aiming for not Fringe players at this level.

All comes down to poor player knowledge from Dyche and
Our scouting that we cannot and will not look beyond our shores for players.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:20 am

I quite like Shane Long, I think he'd be a good fit here. I think given a run in the side hes capable of double figures for us. Its often said that strikers rely on a consistent run of games which Long rarely gets at Soton. I would definitely prefer a younger wildcard over Long but wouldn't be disappointed if he was Grays replacement.

Tribesmen · Post by **Tribesmen** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:22 am

Yep love Longy super player , again has speed to burn . Now yes needs to score more goals I agree with that one but will bring something different to the team , hey he knows most of them anyway .

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:26 am

Surely he isn't going to cost 12 million.

CJW · Post by **CJW** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:32 am

"Math"????

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:35 am

Right_winger wrote:All comes down to poor player knowledge from Dyche and Our scouting that we cannot and will not look beyond our shores for players.

So how on earth did we sign Defour then?

And I bet you wouldn't tell Dyche to his face that he has little or no knowledge of the overseas markets.

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what's involved in signing players as you've never had any experience in that area.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:43 am

DCWat wrote:It's not sound math if we have too many of these players. Aside from potentially Taylor, where is the next up and coming such as Keane? Our conveyor belt needs some re-stocking.

We are storing up a cash issue if we have too many depreciating assets, especially the way that the prices are and wages are rocketing.

It's a huge number but we know well enough that £100 million isn't a lot in this league. That income needs supplementing with sales to allow us to increase our spending power.

As it stands, and if Long is a target, we will have very few players that will increase in value and need to spend again sooner rather than later to replace them. We need more young blood now to go with the experience - we've enough wise old heads that will do them the world of good and help them adapt to this league.

It's time to splash some of the cash on three or four quality signings.

I wouldn't have a problem with us signing Shane Long. He'd be a decent signing, if not exciting or spectacular. He has a better all round game than Gray, and I think his goalscoring record last season was distorted by playing a fair number of games out wide and/or from the bench. His overall record is somewhere around 1 in 4, which is fine. It isn't as good as Gray managed last season, but I struggle to think of anyone else we could sign in whom I'd be as confident they would fit in immediately, and that really is the fundamental question. We are going to have to replace Gray's goals from lots of places, and I'd be looking to the midfield to replace most of them.

I take the concern about us ending up with ageing assets, but a quick look at the first XI doesn't really bear it out. The only players over 30 are Heaton, Ward (to be succeeded in time by Taylor) and Walters. Long would make it 4, which is a decent quota but it isn't massive (we have plenty of players in their prime, but that's rarely a cause for complaint). And whilst the concern about asset depreciation has something in it, in the case of Long we'd be swapping a (cheaper) asset to depreciate over say 2 years for a previous asset (Gray) who had we retained him would have depreciated over 12 months.

Effectively, on the assumption we'd get 2 good years out of Long (even for a striker with pace, there's life until at least 32), we'd be swapping an asset which would need replacing in full in 12 months for one that would need replacing in 24 months. Perhaps we'd want out other forward signing(s) to be younger, but that's surely a different point.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:51 am

CJW wrote:"Math"????

I was referring to an earlier post

CJW · Post by **CJW** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:55 am

DCWat wrote:I was referring to an earlier post

Don't encourage them.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:05 am

lanky22222 wrote: he's been scoring 10 goals per season consistently over his entire Prem career which is just what we need.

He's scored ten goals just once in nine seasons and it was two seasons ago. Last season he scored fewer than Barnes and Vokes.

But okay...

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:24 am

Spijed wrote:So how on earth did we sign Defour then?
For a kick off he's played over 50 times for his county who are one of the best in the world, has an excellent pedigree. I'm assuming we were contacted by Defours agent and Dyche took a bit of a gamble given the above and the fact we were desperate for recruits at the time. But I could be wrong.

And I bet you wouldn't tell Dyche to his face that he has little or no knowledge of the overseas markets.what point are you even trying to make and in what way is it relevant?

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what's involved in signing players as you've never had any experience in that area. you are correct, I have never signed a professional football player. Let's be honest though it's hardly going to be rocket science is it? Again not sure what point your trying to make. The first time anyone bought a house they didn't have any idea what was involved, still doesn't mean you can't have an opinion on what's a good house to buy or not. Anyway evidence suggests what type of players Dyche likes to sign and they are by the bulk domestic based hard working battlers/cloggers. Every team needs a clogger or 2 granted but not a team consistent of 8 or 9 of them. Until Dyche regularly starts to sign numerous flair players with high technical skill levels then my opinion won't change. .

dandeclaret · Post by **dandeclaret** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:32 am

Sidney1st wrote:So Long would get the benefit of doubt that Gray wasn't going to get?

I'll never understand this forum during the transfer windows.

Forum is easy to understand when you realise that it doesn't have a single voice. Becomes confusing if you attribute one pair of diametrically opposed views to its single entity.

Zenwisdom · Post by **Zenwisdom** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:34 am

We need a striker with pace who understands the offside rule so if the cap fits cart on .

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:39 am

'understands the offside rule'

Is there anybody who does?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:41 am

Sidney1st wrote:I'm not saying the exact same people.

I just don't understand why people would be so happy with this signing, he's an average striker in the PL, his goal scoring record in better teams suggest he wouldn't be much of an improvement on Gray.
Gray with better service at Watford will score more goals than Long would with us if this move happens.
I'd be willing to bet on that too.

Average Premier League strikers are all we can realistically expect. Better than average strikers are playing for the top 7, the better than average sides; if we can become an average Premier side we're doing well. I'd like to be top 7, but that's a very long term project.

And if he's an improvement on Gray, that's a good thing.

ClaretRock · Post by **ClaretRock** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:20 am

Gray great potential but always offside and his touch a lot of the time was poor. Occasionally do something great which showed what he is capable of but all to rarely. Long should be able to make up for grays goals. This signing is a good one that fits (Irish

)

ClaretRock · Post by **ClaretRock** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:21 am

Assuming it happens...

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:28 am

ClaretRock wrote:Long should be able to make up for grays goals.

What makes you say that? He scored three goals last season. He's scored double figures once in nine years.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:35 am

The longer that he is linked with Burnley his goal scoring prowess and striking abilities increases by the day in the eyes of some.

Give it until the end of the transfer window and he will be ranked up there with Sergio Aguero.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:41 am

kentonclaret wrote:The longer that he is linked with Burnley his goal scoring prowess and striking abilities increases by the day in the eyes of some.

Give it until the end of the transfer window and he will be ranked up there with Sergio Aguero.

Ha! Definitely! I rate Long, I'd like us to sign him.

His scoring stats are fairly rank though. I don't understand the fairly frequent comments on here that he's a goal scorer. He definitely isn't. Or at least hasn't been in better sides than Burnley.

We're crying out for pace and Long quenches that. We've also lost roughly ten goals (I'm considering it more than that because I think Gray would've pushed on) and there's nothing other than one season two years ago to suggest Long can get something approaching fifteen goals. And that's something I think we'll need.

Although the caveat to that is that I think Walters will bag more than Boyd did so maybe we'll be okay.

But one thing Long isn't is a goal scorer so I can't work out why people think he is.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:54 am

kentonclaret wrote:The longer that he is linked with Burnley his goal scoring prowess and striking abilities increases by the day in the eyes of some.

Give it until the end of the transfer window and he will be ranked up there with Sergio Aguero.

But by the same token, some were talking up Andre Gray that he would one day play for a top six club.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:55 am

Spijed wrote:But by the same token, some were talking up Andre Gray that he would one day play for a top six club.

Not by the same token at all. Long's shown he can't score goals at this level. Gray hasn't either yet, consistently, granted. But potentially he could play for a club higher than Watford. Long's proven he can't.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:59 am

HelloHiGoodbye wrote:Not by the same token at all. Long's shown he can't score goals at this level. Gray hasn't either yet, consistently, granted. But potentially he could play for a club higher than Watford. Long's proven he can't.

So Southampton aren't a better club than Watford, or have finished constantly higher in recent seasons?

Stan Tastic · Post by **Stan Tastic** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:59 am

A goalscoring record of 1 in 4 from a thirty year-old striker that relies on pace.

It's the worst idea since a certain person thought it a masterstroke to employ Brian Laws as manager.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:01 pm

Spijed wrote:So Southampton aren't a better club than Watford, or have finished constantly higher in recent seasons?

Yes. They are. They have. And look at the goals he's scored for them. That's what I'm saying. I rate Long. But he isn't a goal scorer. No-one can say he is.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:02 pm

I don't think Shane Long has ever had a season in which his club has finished lower than Watford.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:03 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Long" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've linked his wiki page that has him scoring at 1 in 4 for the last few seasons AND in international football. As he has had injuries and some of them appearances would be short substitutions I think he'll be a fit.
He is also a better harrier than Gray more like Ings was and that is to the benefit of the team.
SIGN HIM.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:21 pm

I like Long. Would very much fit in at Burnley - hard working, good pace, clever...played at the top level for a long time now....

If we signed Long I would still like to see someone like Ings come in on loan too. You can never have too many attacking options - particularly if they are different types. And Ings on loan would be low risk.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:24 pm

I'd rather have Gray then Shane Long. Since we've sold Gray for £18.5m, is it not inconceivable that we could do better than Long? 1 goal in 4 games is not impressive ffs

Raggus · Post by **Raggus** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:30 pm

To be honest, how many lower half teams have strikers that can score 15-20 prem goals per season? Id advocate that 10 is a bloody good effort.

S long would if played upfront in a 2 for Burnley be better than gray for the team in my opinion, may score 1 or 2 less but better for the team. Sign him on if any truth in this

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:34 pm

Would Shane Long offer more goals than Gray? Possibly not, although if you took penalties out of the equation I doubt there'd be much in it.

What Long definitely does offer is more intelligent running and hold up play and not to mention his strength in the air. He's older than Gray hence doesn't have the potential, but in the here and he would be a definite upgrade in my opinion. I also imagine he's more versatile and could play wide in a front 3.

Not a signing to set the pulses racing but someone who I imagine could slot straight into the side.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:40 pm

SGr wrote:I'd rather have Gray then Shane Long. Since we've sold Gray for £18.5m, is it not inconceivable that we could do better than Long? 1 goal in 4 games is not impressive ffs

It's as impressive as we are going to attract at this level.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:47 pm

Shane Long is that impressive of a signing that nobody even hinted at him as a potential signing before the start of the transfer window opened, and now he's an upgrade on Gray? Have a look at yourselves.

Plenty of much better players in Europe and further afield who would be willing to come to the premier league and would also be much cheaper too.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:53 pm

Raggus wrote:To be honest, how many lower half teams have strikers that can score 15-20 prem goals per season? Id advocate that 10 is a bloody good effort.

S long would if played upfront in a 2 for Burnley be better than gray for the team in my opinion, may score 1 or 2 less but better for the team. Sign him on if any truth in this

Well of the bottom half last season, Swansea(Llorente), Palace(Benteke), Bourneouth(King and Defoe) Leicester(Vardy). West Ham have signed Hernandez which is a great deal and Watford have signed Gray. Only Stoke probably have a worse striker force from teams last season.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:53 pm

The key is we don't need potential for the job in hand - Premier League survival THIS season - we need players who will deliver now. Long may be such a player that fits our criteria for wages, transfer fee, maybe character.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:02 pm

I think one of the things here is that the focus is on the extent to which Long can/will replace Gray's goals.

I'd argue this is the wrong starting point. Our strikers scored 25 league goals between them last season, which I would guess is more than virtually any other team in the bottom half of the table. I think West Brom's central strikers managed 10 between them.

The other players we used managed 14 between them. The midfielders we used last season managed 9 between them. Of those 9, I make it 2 were direct free kicks, and I can only think of 3 that were a consequence of a midfielder getting beyond the striker or into the box to convert a cross.

That's where our goalscoring problem lay, and largely still lies. If Shane Long signs and manages 4 goals this season and Vokes and Barnes match their tallies from last season, then we'll get 20 from our forwards. We ought to be expecting something like 15-16 from our various midfielders (and Hendrick in particular should be targeting between 5-10 from midfield; he's more than capable of it). Equally, 3 goals from our centre backs last season was paltry and we should be targeting at least double and possibly triple that number this season (Brady's delivery will help with this, as might Defour's right footed option should we see him more).

One thing Shane Long would do for us is give us a better forager into the channels when he played centrally, and a useful outlet on the counter attack if he plays wide (which would in turn allow us to play Defour and Hendrick centrally, with one free to get into those goalscoring positions). Ings did that to an extent, and it allowed the likes of Arfield to get into more advanced positions - we've got a midfield that ought to be far better at that now and we need to make more use of them.