Homophobic chanting at Stamford Bridge

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:56 pm

Saxoman wrote:War chants at modern day Germans and homophobic chants at upper class Londoners. A large element of you're support need to realise its not 1972 any more.

"...your support..." not "...you're support..."

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:01 pm

I am not sure what kind of Utopian view on football some people have.

if you can't handle those nasty supporters swearing and being generally rowdy supporting their club, particularly on an away game then may I politely suggest that maybe something like snooker or crown green bowling may be a better fit for you.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:02 pm

I hadn't realised Saxo was a Rovers fan,Though a long time lurker here id always presumed he was just a lonely slightly depressed type,seems harmless but what on earth is he doing on here wimpering about a few Burnley fans singing "Chelsea rentboys"?

Has homophobic chanting ever been common at all at any time? give or take calling the odd player a "big poof" and a long ago chant of "he's bald he's bent his arse is up for rent" (aimed at Elton John) genuinely all ive heard in 40+ yrs of going on matches

The "Chelsea Rent boys" thing goes back to time immorial as they were always seen as a fancy dan club and Chelsea esp in the 60's/70's seen as a fashionable place while the rest of the country were still eating soil etc .Does seem a slightly out of time and place chant though.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:07 pm

elwaclaret wrote:It may be being pedantic and I'm not putting forward a defence on their defence, but linguistically calling someone rent boy is suggesting they are male prostitutes not that they are gay. Women use prostitutes too.

As a man, I'm offended that people think that only us men will use prostitutes. So upsetting.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:07 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:I hadn't realised Saxo was a Rovers fan,Though a long time lurker here id always presumed he was just a lonely slightly depressed type,seems harmless but what on earth is he doing on here wimpering about a few Burnley fans singing "Chelsea rentboys"?

Has homophobic chanting ever been common at all at any time? give or take calling the odd player a "big poof" and a long ago chant of "he's bald he's bent his arse is up for rent" (aimed at Elton John) genuinely all ive heard in 40+ yrs of going on matches

The "Chelsea Rent boys" thing goes back to time immorial as they were always seen as a fancy dan club and Chelsea esp in the 60's/70's seen as a fashionable place while the rest of the country were still eating soil etc .Does seem a slightly out of time and place chant though.

OK I'll bite..

I'm not the OP. I'm just passing comment, and judging by your closing remark, you agree with my opening post on this thread.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:09 pm

Foshiznik wrote:As a man, I'm offended that people think that only us men will use prostitutes. So upsetting.

Shouldn't it be 'Chelsea gigolos' then? Or escorts?

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:10 pm

You puffs on here need to get over yourselves. Its only a bit of harmless banter at the end of the day. If it offends you, you should be nowhere near a football match.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:11 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:I hadn't realised Saxo was a Rovers fan,Though a long time lurker here id always presumed he was just a lonely slightly depressed type,seems harmless but what on earth is he doing on here wimpering about a few Burnley fans singing "Chelsea rentboys"?

Has homophobic chanting ever been common at all at any time? give or take calling the odd player a "big poof" and a long ago chant of "he's bald he's bent his arse is up for rent" (aimed at Elton John) genuinely all ive heard in 40+ yrs of going on matches

The "Chelsea Rent boys" thing goes back to time immorial as they were always seen as a fancy dan club and Chelsea esp in the 60's/70's seen as a fashionable place while the rest of the country were still eating soil etc .Does seem a slightly out of time and place chant though.

Welcome to the board, AlC.

Thread was started by aggi, not saxo.

Take a look at "Gareth Thomas: Hate in the Beautiful Game" thread - and catch up with the BBC programme on iPlayer. Well worth watching. Gareth Thomas raised some great questions about why no professional footballer has let it be known they are gay. See what Gareth thought of the Crystal Palace fans "bantz" re Brighton.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:13 pm

Top Claret wrote:You puffs on here need to get over yourselves. Its only a bit of harmless banter at the end of the day. If it offends you, you should be nowhere near a football match.

If I was a gay man(I may be, you never know), same? You saying a gay man should be nowhere near a football game?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:19 pm

Top Claret wrote:You puffs on here need to get over yourselves. Its only a bit of harmless banter at the end of the day. If it offends you, you should be nowhere near a football match.

Hi Top C, did you take a look at the "Gareth Thomas" thread? The question there was "what if one of our young stars is gay?" Would we keep up the offensive chants and let him end his footballing career?

Also, why have we stopped the racist chants? Can't we do the same we homophobia?

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:19 pm

Foshiznik wrote:As a man, I'm offended that people think that only us men will use prostitutes. So upsetting.

I do think far too many people are far too busy looking to be offended (I blame facebook to a large extent). To me songs like "Oh Burnley is wonderful" are far more offensive to parents and children, than calling opposition fans names.

I like Dave Gorman's take on it, he points out whoever is name calling doesn't know you, so it shouldn't be taken personally; he used a driver saying "your mums a slag" as an example... 1) They don't know who my mother is and 2) Even if you met her I still know more about her than you. So he just says/thinks "no she isn't" and forgets about it.... the offender is left feeling stupid and the offended isn't, because they know better.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:20 pm

Saxoman wrote:If I was a gay man(I may be, you never know), same? You saying a gay man should be nowhere near a football game?

I am pretty sure that's not what he was saying - he was saying if you are offended by this you shouldn't be near a football match. For example I have curly hair, If I heard someone shout to a player 'You curly haired prick' I wouldn't be offended on behalf off all people with curly hair, myself included, as that is stupid.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:26 pm

Anyway, bored of this now. I'll look at the football threads..!

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:26 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:it was a joke, you silly sausage.

Be careful using that term too

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:29 pm

Paul Waine wrote:I'm sure some saw Gareth Thomas's programme a week ago: Hate in the Beautiful Game. 2500 views - 60 odd posts.

Isn't it about time that homophobic chants at football are viewed in the same way as racist chants are?

Burnley FC are now Premier League. Let's live for now and the future.

UTC

Well said Paul.

I'd encourage people who haven't seen it yet to watch the Gareth Thomas documentary. Still available on BBC iPlayer

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:35 pm

I would have thought that any poor sod unfortunate enough to be a Rent Boy wouldnt spend an awful lot of time fretting over what some Burnley fans shouted at opposition fans on Saturday. Gives the virtue signallers something else to wring their hands over though.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:41 pm

If we're not careful chanting we go from the game completely for risk of offending someone as Braindead observes above.
Fleetwood/Grimsby fans stink of fish - what about that Fleetwood fan that is a fisherman and may spend half his life worrying that he cannot tell if he smells anymore?
Rovers fans have relations with horses - what about offending the people who innocently keep horses....

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:49 pm

elwaclaret wrote:If we're not careful chanting we go from the game completely for risk of offending someone as Braindead observes above.
Fleetwood/Grimsby fans stink of fish - what about that Fleetwood fan that is a fisherman and may spend half his life worrying that he cannot tell if he smells anymore?
Rovers fans have relations with horses - what about offending the people who innocently keep horses....

The latter would be presuming Rovers have actual real fans.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:55 pm

Saxoman wrote:War chants at modern day Germans and homophobic chants at upper class Londoners. A large element of you're support need to realise its not 1972 any more.

Aye and a large element of your ( I corrected your basic error) support need to realise where your ground is...............you included, you gormless prick.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:02 pm

Well, fair enough, there seems to be a consensus on this that it's football and so be it. Things are fine if they're "banter"

I've been going to football for a fair time, home and away, long enough to remember those games with monkey chants and the rest. Society has moved on and football has trailed along behind it and that's now unacceptable and I don't think many people are bemoaning this. Society is continuing to move on and I'd prefer Burnley not to be trailing along at the rear again like it has in the past (it wasn't that long ago you were still hearing chants of town full of pakis at Blackburn games and Drogba suffering racist abuse from significant numbers of the crowd).

COYC73 · Post by **COYC73** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:12 pm

Right_winger wrote:It's getting a bit chilly. There's a few snowflakes fluttering around.

Few Snowflakes....?!?!? It's a bloody blizzard....!!! Can't stand the PC Brigade...!!!!

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:16 pm

aggi wrote:Well, fair enough, there seems to be a consensus on this that it's football and so be it. Things are fine if they're "banter"

I've been going to football for a fair time, home and away, long enough to remember those games with monkey chants and the rest. Society has moved on and football has trailed along behind it and that's now unacceptable and I don't think many people are bemoaning this. Society is continuing to move on and I'd prefer Burnley not to be trailing along at the rear again like it has in the past (it wasn't that long ago you were still hearing chants of town full of pakis at Blackburn games and Drogba suffering racist abuse from significant numbers of the crowd).

I'd argue that liberal media has moved on to where they want society to be.
Football is a good benchmark of where it is in reality - what better cross section of a town are you going to get?

Its like the Inbred song - I think its stupid and does not make sense.... I don't find it offensive, just stupid.
"Dingle" - I'm not a Dingle, I have no history of being married to a Dingle in our family tree (Either real or an actor/ress that plays in Emerdale Farm)... so that is incorrect... but it doesn't offend me.

If I was a Chelsea Rent boy watching the game I'd be thinking "I take home more money in a week than you see in a year" so fill your boots. I presume any rent boys in the crowd would have heard far worse. If I was a Chelsea fan bgeing called a "Rent boy" my first thought would doubtless be - no I'm not. Dealt with...

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:25 pm

Mainly it just makes Burnley fans look a bit moronic / provincial/ lacking in wit. I'd have thought that was the view of the Chelsea fans.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:27 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:I always assumed that the Chelsea rent boys was (given how long it's been around) more of a nod towards the rather effete manner in which the Chelsea fans acted on the Kings Road back in the 60s and 70s. Perhaps it's more of a transgender issue rather than homophobic per se?

I too think it's because they were wearing Hush Puppy Desert Boots with Prada and Armani whilst Northern fans were still wearing Surplus NCB Donkey Jackets and Steel Toe Boots. Those trendy boys weren't at all gay in the modern interpretation of the word.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:31 pm

elwaclaret wrote:I'd argue that liberal media has moved on to where they want society to be.
Football is a good benchmark of where it is in reality - what better cross section of a town are you going to get? ..

Hi elwa, forget the "liberal media." What about the people who live in Burnley/N.East Lancs? Aren't we allowed to live in the modern world like everyone else? Do we have to be stuck with social attitudes from more than 5 decades back? We should all be moving forward, if we don't we just condemn ourselves to be a life of poverty in all that word's meanings.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:42 pm

What is a rentboy? A boy who pays rent?

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:45 pm

As Blain would say "Bunch of slack-jawed faggots around here".

MrTopTier · Post by **MrTopTier** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:46 pm

Tottenham fans sing it on a regular basis, when challenging for the title last season "Chelsea rent boys, we are coming for you" was a regular chant.

Unfortunately can not find a thread on that, because there wasn't one.

Not condoning it by any means, but it is not unique to Burnley.

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:02 pm

It was based on a national news story from the mid 1980s - rent boys servicing the establishment elite.

Tinribs · Post by **Tinribs** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:11 pm

Saxoman wrote:I've just walked out of a temp job today because my mature co workers were racist arseholes, humiliating Asian customers behind their backs. Can't be doing with that crap in 2017.

So you didnt intervene you just walked out.

Losing your job in the process.

Well done glad someones making a stand.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:19 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi elwa, forget the "liberal media." What about the people who live in Burnley/N.East Lancs? Aren't we allowed to live in the modern world like everyone else? Do we have to be stuck with social attitudes from more than 5 decades back? We should all be moving forward, if we don't we just condemn ourselves to be a life of poverty in all that word's meanings.

I see your point, but my argument is football reflects society - where else would you get a lawyer sat with a bin man for example. Its far from just Burnley that has offensive chanting - it is country wide and so society wide.

Just as many people are offended by anti Christian humour.... where is the moral outrage on their behalf?
Many people are offended by the constant dumbing down of moral values in "reality" TV.... where is the moral outrage on their behalf?
Some people are offended by 2 male actors kissing on their TV's.... where is the moral outrage on their behalf?

...or is your point that as far as you are concerned YOU are right and people who have differing views are automatically brainless idiots?
If you offended you have choices ignore it or don't go. God forbid the time comes when everyone agrees... it really will be a world I wouldn't want to live in.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:44 pm

The rentboys monicker actually comes from a police raid in the 80s where they found one of chelseas 'main heads' from the headhunters in bed with erm a rent boy!

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:48 pm

It's a **** chant. End of.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:50 pm

Tinribs wrote:So you didnt intervene you just walked out.

Losing your job in the process.

Well done glad someones making a stand.

Losing 1 days whole minimum wage. Wow. Intervene? Why should I take a crack in the jaw from caveman monkey man to protect your better world?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:53 pm

elwaclaret wrote:I see your point, but my argument is football reflects society - where else would you get a lawyer sat with a bin man for example. Its far from just Burnley that has offensive chanting - it is country wide and so society wide.

Just as many people are offended by anti Christian humour.... where is the moral outrage on their behalf?
Many people are offended by the constant dumbing down of moral values in "reality" TV.... where is the moral outrage on their behalf?
Some people are offended by 2 male actors kissing on their TV's.... where is the moral outrage on their behalf?

...or is your point that as far as you are concerned YOU are right and people who have differing views are automatically brainless idiots?
If you offended you have choices ignore it or don't go. God forbid the time comes when everyone agrees... it really will be a world I wouldn't want to live in.

Hi elwa, no, I'm not always right - and I don't think there's anything wrong with the people who take a different view. I guess what I'm posting on here is result of watching Gareth Thomas's programme (see above) the other week. I watched it with an open mind. I love the game of football, I'd have loved to have been good enough to play at a higher level than "sunday league." What Gareth Thomas spoke about resonated with me. Football is a beautiful game - but there are parts it's not beautiful, whereas other sports are not homophobic.

If you've looked at my "politics" posts (though no reason why you should) you will know there are many who don't agree with me.

I've got a very simple view: there's not enough love in the world, who am I to judge what is "right love" and what isn't.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:46 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi elwa, no, I'm not always right - and I don't think there's anything wrong with the people who take a different view. I guess what I'm posting on here is result of watching Gareth Thomas's programme (see above) the other week. I watched it with an open mind. I love the game of football, I'd have loved to have been good enough to play at a higher level than "sunday league." What Gareth Thomas spoke about resonated with me. Football is a beautiful game - but there are parts it's not beautiful, whereas other sports are not homophobic.

If you've looked at my "politics" posts (though no reason why you should) you will know there are many who don't agree with me.

I've got a very simple view: there's not enough love in the world, who am I to judge what is "right love" and what isn't.

Please don't think I'm having a go or attacking your view, I'm really not.

But to me what I see on TV and how people carry on in the press is not "real" society - the society is the whole bag, as Oliver Cromwell said to the artist "warts and all".

What I believe in is an alternative tolerance. Discussion and argument makes you think - I certainly don't get everything right, but by drawing on as many different sources as possible I try to reach a position I'm comfortable with. I've never been one for hurling abuse at anyone. If they come from a completely different position to me I will enquire Why? and am I comfortable with my position ? (much as we are doing now).

Words are wind - its the reaction they get that gives them life and power. If no one is offended at being called "giraffe-head" it is not offensive. People have there views and there reasons for saying something. Switch the reason on them and the offensiveness disappears. "I'm a great big Dorothy, biggest puff in the world" isn't offensive if I am and is incorrect if I'm not - either way I chose to be offended or not. I just think too many people are now just all too happy to be offended - given any opportunity.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:05 pm

elwaclaret wrote:Please don't think I'm having a go or attacking your view, I'm really not.

But to me what I see on TV and how people carry on in the press is not "real" society - the society is the whole bag, as Oliver Cromwell said to the artist "warts and all".

What I believe in is an alternative tolerance. Discussion and argument makes you think - I certainly don't get everything right, but by drawing on as many different sources as possible I try to reach a position I'm comfortable with. I've never been one for hurling abuse at anyone. If they come from a completely different position to me I will enquire Why? and am I comfortable with my position ? (much as we are doing now).

Words are wind - its the reaction they get that gives them life and power. If no one is offended at being called "giraffe-head" it is not offensive. People have there views and there reasons for saying something. Switch the reason on them and the offensiveness disappears. "I'm a great big Dorothy, biggest puff in the world" isn't offensive if I am and is incorrect if I'm not - either way I chose to be offended or not. I just think too many people are now just all too happy to be offended - given any opportunity.

Good post, elwa. I'm not "put out" by what you've posted. I've shared a bit of my view of "diversity." There are things we can do things about and things we can't. Gareth Thomas programme made the point that even a "big, strong, rugby player" can suffer when they are hiding "who they are" because they hear "name calling" (let's put it no stronger than that) that includes their situation. And, Thomas made the point that football has a problem with "gays" - whereas most other sports (now) have extended their definition of "normal" - "normal" includes all sexual preferences, we aren't defined by who we choose to love.

I don't think it's the people who choose to be offended that matter (and I'm not offended for them). It's the youngster that stays silent, maybe "withdraws," maybe doesn't reach their potential, maybe suffers mental health issues....

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:15 pm

Top post Paul, and probably wasted on the people who think the right to say and do what they want is more important than the rights of whom they might offend, hurt or cause distress too.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:32 pm

Who really cares?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:33 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Top post Paul, and probably wasted on the people who think the right to say and do what they want is more important than the rights of whom they might offend, hurt or cause distress too.

Hi Lancs, thanks. I don't think there are many on here where exchange of views is wasted. It may require a little patience and sometimes to take a step back. On occasions I need to be reminded that the other guy might have good reasons to see things differently. Almost all on here are "good guys." And, whoever we are, we all had a great time on Saturday.

UTC

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:37 pm

I sympathise with your point more than you could know up to press.
I used to have pretty much every hang up going. I hid my mental illness until I had a mental breakdown (following the loss of my business) which robbed me of 10 years of my working life. So repression/suppression are far from an alien concepts to me.

Education should include self awareness and mid setting techniques in my humble opinion. At the end of the day I cannot stop a hundred people of a couple of thousand chanting something that is hurtful to me, but I can refuse to be offended by people I don't know. Especially as there is inevitably and underlining reason for them to try to offend is to get a reaction - you win by simply not giving the reaction they want.

That comes with self confidence and self awareness not with ramming Political Correctness upon those whose life experience is totally alien to yours. It is very hard to offend someone who is comfortable in their own skin. That is where the effort should be going, then the rest will naturally follow.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:55 pm

KRBFC wrote:Who really cares?

Hi KRBFC, I care (but I'm not important). Gareth Thomas cares, which is kinda more important. The footballer who is gay, but can't say, obviously cares and that is really important.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:03 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi KRBFC, I care (but I'm not important). Gareth Thomas cares, which is kinda more important. The footballer who is gay, but can't say, obviously cares and that is really important.

Gareth Thomas isn't important, he's a rugby player. You know what they say about men who play rugby......

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:09 pm

Top Claret wrote:You puffs on here need to get over yourselves. Its only a bit of harmless banter at the end of the day. If it offends you, you should be nowhere near a football match.

Or a public toilet!

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:11 pm

tim_noone wrote:Or a public toilet!

Or a rent boy.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:15 pm

Braindead wrote:I am pretty sure that's not what he was saying - he was saying if you are offended by this you shouldn't be near a football match. For example I have curly hair, If I heard someone shout to a player 'You curly haired prick' I wouldn't be offended on behalf off all people with curly hair, myself included, as that is stupid.

Aaah but what if you were called a fat lazy ugly pr!ck?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:16 pm

With curly hair...

littlemissclaret · Post by **littlemissclaret** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:30 pm

I can usually be called on the PC side of these debates, and would never join in with this type of thing, but this raised no alarm bells with me whatsoever, so I've been thinking about this..

Surely all football chants are offensive? "You fat *******", "the referees a ******" etc. The term rent boy is offensive because it implies that you sell sex to men. I'd have thought the "selling sex" part more so than the "to men" part? I cannot see that a "gay" footballer would be bothered at all.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:32 pm

Does ponce count as homophobic???

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:40 pm

elwaclaret wrote:I'd argue that liberal media has moved on to where they want society to be.
Football is a good benchmark of where it is in reality - what better cross section of a town are you going to get?

Its like the Inbred song - I think its stupid and does not make sense.... I don't find it offensive, just stupid.
"Dingle" - I'm not a Dingle, I have no history of being married to a Dingle in our family tree (Either real or an actor/ress that plays in Emerdale Farm)... so that is incorrect... but it doesn't offend me.

If I was a Chelsea Rent boy watching the game I'd be thinking "I take home more money in a week than you see in a year" so fill your boots. I presume any rent boys in the crowd would have heard far worse. If I was a Chelsea fan bgeing called a "Rent boy" my first thought would doubtless be - no I'm not. Dealt with...

Personally I find the Dingle comments amusing.