Rees-Mogg

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:56 am

Whilst I respect his personally held religious views and agree that 'marriage' is actually a religious term that has been hijacked I cannot accept his views on abortion. If someone has been raped they should be entitled to abhort within certain timescales. For a woman it could create distastrous long term psychological damage and would not be fair to her or the baby.

Cue the usual procession of libtards and atheists .....

Bfcis4me · Post by **Bfcis4me** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:00 am

What's a libtard?

My mum once told me she would have not had me if she knew what to do.

That's not nice.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:02 am

Why would your perfectly reasonable view be the cue for a "procession of libtards and atheists", Blackrod ?

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:03 am

Blackrod wrote:Cue the usual procession of libtards and atheists .....

So you insult everyone who doesn't share your view?

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:09 am

I saw this yesterday and wondered what planet some people are on.

Childbirth and parenting should be embarked upon with joy, happiness and love.

Imagine harbouring all your life the knowledge that your child was the result of a horrific act committed against your will.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:09 am

he's a backward, posh bigot who is well out of touch with reality.

rees-mogg, that is, not blackrod.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:14 am

Rees-Mogg is clearly living in the past.

Most of us were brought up with the traditional idea marriage was a man and woman, however times have changed. Homosexuality used to be hidden away and something most of us knew little about.

We can all see just how many people are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. Hiding away, their lives must have been miserable. We've all seen gay marriages on tv and the happiness it brings.

The world has to be a better place now these people can live happier lives?

Rees-Mogg is free to live whatever life he choses. That choice is available to everyone of us and not for others to moralise.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:16 am

quoonbeatz wrote:he's a backward, posh bigot who is well out of touch with reality.

And potentially the leader of the rabidly pro-Brexit wing of the Tory Party when it finally - inevitably in my view - splits over the issue.

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:16 am

Don't agree with his views, but surely an MP telling the truth is something to be applauded

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:21 am

LoveCurryPies wrote:So you insult everyone who doesn't share your view?

I don't expect anyone to agree with my views and I have not insulted everyone who doesn't. I know some posters do not hold religion in high regard and often ridicule it. That is their choice.

I agree with ClaretEngineers post. I think in this case religion is being taken too literally.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:22 am

Grumps wrote:Don't agree with his views, but surely an MP telling the truth is something to be applauded

What truth did he tell ?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:23 am

Just further proof, to me, that Religious beliefs are always holier than thou.
No shades of grey with the indoctrinated.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:23 am

Far too much of British life is still based on the myth that there is a god and his "word" should be law.
I was pleased to read yesterday that over 50% of Britains now have no religion.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:24 am

nil_desperandum wrote:And potentially the leader of the rabidly pro-Brexit wing of the Tory Party when it finally - inevitably in my view - splits over the issue.

I think the exact opposite. Rees-Mogg's "out of time" statement will stop him leading anything. I'm sure he's clever enough to know that.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:26 am

piston broke wrote:Far too much of British life is still based on the myth that there is a god and his "word" should be law.
I was pleased to read yesterday that over 50% of Britains now have no religion.

I saw a letter in yesterday's Times: "now that Christians are a minority will they also receive the protections and respect granted to other minorities?"

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:26 am

I think Jesus and his 12 boyfriends would have approved.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:27 am

He's being pushed to be the next PM, and I don't think he wants to go anywhere near it at the moment as the next couple of years are going to be shocking for the Tories.

By doing this, he takes himself out of the leadership questions in one fell swoop.

Pretty clever actually, though it will do his prospects long term harm

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:27 am

piston broke wrote:Far too much of British life is still based on the myth that there is a god and his "word" should be law.
I was pleased to read yesterday that over 50% of Britains now have no religion.

I'll come across as somewhat racist but that is my main issue with immigration, or certain immigrants, as the more religious the communities of people that come to this country are the less they are likely to be willing to abide by the laws and humanity standards of our country.
The law of their religion is king.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:32 am

I find it amusing that the UK wouldn't elect anybody as PM who believed in God strongly and still possesses these views (I'm sure JRM has no chance of getting in as PM) but still collectively has a panic attack at the thought of challenging even more radical beliefs in other religions. The US is probably still the other way - they won't elect anyone who doesn't have a strong belief in God (although the abortion element is a big dividing line still).

For my part I went to a CoE school and had RE drummed into me every week, whereas now I think it's one big fairy story created to give leaders on the Silk Road something else to gather in followers with when rival nations were dominating them in a trading or military sense. Despite that I respect JRM for his views, I simply don't agree with them, and I wouldn't begin to entertain using this issue as a thing not to elect him with because it's irrelevant (he wouldn't attempt to change the law on abortion and his religion probably gives him a moral compass that would serve him well).

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:32 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:He's being pushed to be the next PM, and I don't think he wants to go anywhere near it at the moment as the next couple of years are going to be shocking for the Tories.

By doing this, he takes himself out of the leadership questions in one fell swoop.

Pretty clever actually, though it will do his prospects long term harm

Maybe he would like the Incestual rapists to have full visitation rights to the children they have fathered.
He's a knob IMO

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:34 am

joey13 wrote:What truth did he tell ?

Telling everyone what his views were

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:36 am

Oh, no doubt Bleeding

But his views will have support within certain elements of the Conservative Party, and just like the supporters of Jeremy Corbyn, don't be surprised if he ends up as leader

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:38 am

I thought it was brilliant to listen to someone who has clearly spent his life believing in the Catholic beliefs. He answered the questions without fear unlike the Lib Dem chap in the election who couldn't decide if his beliefs or desire to be the leader were more important. I don't agree with Rees-Mogg at all on these two points and I am not a Catholic, but I respect his honesty in saying what he believes. Far too many politicians fudge answers to let us hear what they think we want to hear. I wonder if our Muslim MP's when interviewed could be asked what part of their beliefs are sacred to them? Or is it only questionable for Catholic MP's? I wonder what our ex PM Tony Blair believes now he is a Catholic convert, it would be interesting to compare Moggs answers with Blairs?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:38 am

In theory, to someone who believes in the sanctity of human life, unborn babies should be protected even if the mother was raped; in practice, I can't imagine anyone would condemn them for aborting them.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:43 am

Rees-Mogg isn't the future of the Tory party, just as Corbyn isn't the future of the Labour party.
They're both about 40 years out of date.
The optimist in me says that once the current divisive nonsense dissipates we'll see rising stars on both sides replace the current crop of weirdos.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:48 am

His clarification was pretty clear that he wouldn't go against UK law.

Course, he didn't say that he was in favour of not changing the law either.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:48 am

dsr wrote:In theory, to someone who believes in the sanctity of human life, unborn babies should be protected even if the mother was raped; in practice, I can't imagine anyone would condemn them for aborting them.

The 'terrible, irony of this is that it is one of the greatest weapons in conflicts with religious origins, that the dominant forces kill all the young men and rape the women, so that these women give birth to their children.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:50 am

And imagine the outrage on here if it was Sadiq Khan saying the same thing.

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:50 am

Taking aside the fact it's a Tory who has expressed his views. This will be warmly welcomed by the anti-abortionists, of which there are plenty on both sides of the political spectrum. My view or political leaning is irrelevant but to suggest only Tories think abortion is wrong is ludicrous. I've spoken to many a Labour voting religious person who finds abortion of any kind abhorrent. So setting aside the political side of things. This is a religious view which is held by an outdated belief that marriage between a man and a woman is the only marriage seen as righteous in the eyes of their God. Whichever side you lean to, I find it hard for any self respecting person to argue that forcing a woman to have a child after they have been raped is morally incomprehensible.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:52 am

Jacob Reese Mogg expressed his view in an honest way with no attempt to fudge the issue. He also tried to explain his views on gay marriage and why there was a difference in his views on gay marriage and his views on abortion. He did all of this in an honest and reasonable way which, in my view, is a rarity in a politician. I don't agree with his views on gay marriage and in the main, with his views on abortion. His view on abortion is that, as life to him is sacrosanct, abortion is wrong in all cases, no exceptions. I also believe that life is sacrosanct, and that the life of the unborn child must be respected, but there are circumstances where an abortion would be the best course of action. I am sure we can all make a list of some of these circumstances. However we are moving more and more to a position where abortion is available as a lifestyle choice and the only mantra we ever hear if the right of the mother over her own body, but it isn't just her body though , is it? There is another life in the mix, and that life just gets ignored.
Abortion is often the only choice for some but at the end of the day another life is lost.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:53 am

It is refreshing to actually hear some politicians stand by what they believe in instead of changing to appease people involving lies and u turns. I don't agree with his stance on abortion and rape at all but at least he stands by his beliefs. I don't agree with anything Corbin utters but I have a kind of respect for him for standing by what he believes in too.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:59 am

My views on abortion are pretty simple.

I wouldn't have one by choice, but I wouldn't stop anybody else having one if that is what they wanted.

No one would seriously force a rape victim to give birth surely?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:59 am

Unfortunately to Jacob Rees Mogg abortion is completely out of the question even if it puts the life of the mother at risk at the point of child birth.

How can those views be considered honest and admirable in any way?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:05 am

quoonbeatz wrote:he's a backward, posh bigot who is well out of touch with reality.

He's incredibly posh (not sure how relevant this is to much) but I challenge you to find a single quote from that demonstrates anything close to "bigotry".

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:05 am

Spijed wrote:Unfortunately to Jacob Rees Mogg abortion is completely out of the question even if it puts the life of the mother at risk at the point of child birth.

How can those views be considered honest and admirable in any way?

No one has said his views are honest and admirable. What has been said is that he has expressed his views openly and honestly with no attempt at obfuscation which in a politician is something to be admired.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:07 am

If only the same commentators praising him had done the same with Tim Farron eh?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:11 am

Chobulous wrote:No one has said his views are honest and admirable. What has been said is that he has expressed his views openly and honestly with no attempt at obfuscation which in a politician is something to be admired.

Or is he just an example of religious indoctrination. Is he open to discussion to mediate his views or is he just right cos he read an old book.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:13 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:If only the same commentators praising him had done the same with Tim Farron eh?

Totally different, Farron ducked and dived at every opportunity, Rees-Mogg plainly stated his beliefs. You are making the same mistake as Spijed. No-one as far as I can see is praising Rees-Mogg for his beliefs, to many his beliefs are anathema. He is being praised for honestly expressing a set of beliefs that are probably political suicide.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:14 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:If only the same commentators praising him had done the same with Tim Farron eh?

Tim Farron and his bigoted views. Neither of them grew up with the freedom of mind to make the decisions based on their life experiences they are indoctrinated by religion.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:15 am

BleedingClaret wrote:Or is he just an example of religious indoctrination. Is he open to discussion to mediate his views or is he just right cos he read an old book.

I don't know, why don't you ask him?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:18 am

BleedingClaret wrote:Or is he just an example of religious indoctrination. Is he open to discussion to mediate his views or is he just right cos he read an old book.

You don't need to be religious to be anti-abortion.

Basically, if you're in favour of abortion, it's for one of two reasons:

1. The aborted foetus wasn't human;
2. The aborted foetus was human, but its life wasn't worth much.

If you believe that what's inside the mother is a human being with a life worth preserving, then you're anti-abortion.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:22 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:And imagine the outrage on here if it was Sadiq Khan saying the same thing.

If Sadiq Khan follows his religion's teaching then he will believe the same thing.

As will Tony Blair.

As did Ann Widdecombe.

The only difference is that Rees-Mogg has had the courage to state it categorically and Ann Widdecombe resigned because she said she could not accommodate her personal religious beliefs with her professional duties.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:24 am

Hang on a sec Chobulous

It was a determined media campaign to ignore the fact that whatever views Tim Farron has, he voted with his parties position on all of them.

Rees-Mogg actually votes against these things and is being backed for being principled by exactly the same media.

Since when did honesty become important to the Daily Mail and Telegraph?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:27 am

If Sadiq Khan follows his religion's teaching then he will believe the same thing.

**** answer as usual.

You know he doesn't believe this. Its very common knowledge.

But if we ignore your predictable attempt to derail the point being made, how would the supporters of this have reacted if it had been Sadiq khan?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:29 am

Rowls wrote:If Sadiq Khan follows his religion's teaching then he will believe the same thing.

As will Tony Blair.

As did Ann Widdecombe.

The only difference is that Rees-Mogg has had the courage to state it categorically and Ann Widdecombe resigned because she said she could not accommodate her personal religious beliefs with her professional duties.

They are saying their religious belief is to them right in all circumstances and the law is wrong if it contradicts their views.
The problem they are increasingly having is that they are more and more in the minority and are therefore frustrated with democracy.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:30 am

I definitely fall into the non-religious category, and I would rather cut off an arm then vote Tory, but I am also, too a certain extent, anti-abortion, as I believe, I have previously explained.
I do not believe Rees-Mogg is a bigot, he holds views that are different to many, but that doesn't make him bigoted.

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:31 am

God help us if he is the future leader of the country. He's a living throwback to the 1800's and would fit right in with the pre-Victorian era of Great Britain on who's empire the sun never set.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:34 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:**** answer as usual.
You know he doesn't believe this. Its very common knowledge.
But if we ignore your predictable attempt to derail the point being made, how would the supporters of this have reacted if it had been Sadiq khan?

I don't know that at all. It is my belief that abortion is considered a crime in Islam much as it is in Christianity, specifically the Catholic church.

Here's a nice BBC article which confirms it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... on_1.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get all uppity if you like but what I've posted is true.

Nothing to do with "derailing" anything - I was merely responding to a post.

Sadiq Khan may or may not choose to follow his religion's teachings on the matter. But if he does follow them to the letter then his views WILL be nearly identical to Rees-Mogg's.

There's no two ways about it.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:46 am

dsr wrote:You don't need to be religious to be anti-abortion.

Basically, if you're in favour of abortion, it's for one of two reasons:

1. The aborted foetus wasn't human;
2. The aborted foetus was human, but its life wasn't worth much.

If you believe that what's inside the mother is a human being with a life worth preserving, then you're anti-abortion.

I don't think if a child, in the eyes of the law, who is menstruating and so a woman in the eyes of some, dare I say religions, that is raped should be forced to have an egg that has been fertilized by the sperm of a pedophile rapist and possibly incestual, which is 3 illegal acts, and be forced through a 9 month pregnancy and to endure the life thereafter.You can claim to be a humanist for the unborn child but if you denied a child in this case that may or may not be pregnant the right to take the morning after pill to make sure she is not, then your inhumane in my eyes, religious or not.

Ightenclaret · Post by **Ightenclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:47 am

Rowls wrote:I don't know that at all. It is my belief that abortion is considered a crime in Islam much as it is in Christianity, specifically the Catholic church.

Here's a nice BBC article which confirms it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... on_1.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get all uppity if you like but what I've posted is true.

Nothing to do with "derailing" anything - I was merely responding to a post.

Sadiq Khan may or may not choose to follow his religion's teachings on the matter. But if he does follow them to the letter then his views WILL be nearly identical to Rees-Mogg's.

There's no two ways about it.

If you're going to post a link to a basic source of information via Google Rowls, it would help if you read beyond the first sentence. The article you link to states that there is no definitive ruling in Islam as differing schools of Islamic jurisprudence disagree on the issue.

Absolutely not the same in the Catholic Church.

Please feel free to edit your post accordingly.