UBER and out..

[hampsteadclaret]

Uber are not gonna get their licence renewed in London - too many foul-ups particularly around safety issues.

[NewForestClaret]

Astonishing. Khan't done something of merit! Be interesting to see what George Osborne makes of it in his Evening Standard rag tonight.

[Quickenthetempo]

Great news for the country.

Tax evading scumbags

[ten bellies]

Uber are not gonna get their licence renewed in London - too many foul-ups particularly around safety issues.

Safety issues meaning assaults on passengers?

[IAmAClaret]

The negative is that circa 40,000 jobs lost, but the positives are that Uber now has to sort itself out (again).

They say 3.5m customers a week in London - that's a lot of money they really won't want to lose out on.

[bfccrazy]

Does this open the door for other apps to just take over though?

I personally quite like the "Gett" app more than Uber and it's not just random people that pick you up, it just links you the exact same way as Uber but to any local black cabs. I know i'm getting a lift off someone who has gone through all the hoops to get a black cab that way.

[Rileybobs]

I've had a couple of discussions with an in-law who works for TFL and I still can't see a credible reason why Uber shouldn't be allowed to operate in London.

[Quickenthetempo]

I've had a couple of discussions with an in-law who works for TFL and I still can't see a credible reason why Uber shouldn't be allowed to operate in London.

They don't pay much tax in this country despite getting lots of profit?

[Spijed]

People will be left with being fleeced by your "honest" black cab driver!

[Rileybobs]

They don't pay much tax in this country despite getting lots of profit?

How is this issue specific to them operating in London?

[Quickenthetempo]

How is this issue specific to them operating in London?

It's not but it's probably their biggest earning city.

[MarkGreen]

A lot of the reasoning behind the decision is because Uber operate in pretty similar fashion to Facebook in that they will not assist the police with criminal offences and the reporting of crimes.

Facebook will not let the police into a users account if they were using it to organise crime as this goes against Facebook's security policy, and Uber follow suit and will not allow their app to be used to convict a criminal.

Both apps can hold vital data, such as locations and times but to share that information is against their own policy's, hence why they will not share data with the police.

[Dyched]

never used them over here but have in the States. Always been great, some even cool boxes full of pop/water and chocolate treats. For free. Wonderful.

I don't understand why more taxi firms don't use their app system. Call a taxi up here and they say 5/10 mins, finally show up 25 mins later. I remember using taxi firm in liverpool that text updates, car info and what not.

[IAmAClaret]

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[Rileybobs]

A lot of the reasoning behind the decision is because Uber operate in pretty similar fashion to Facebook in that they will not assist the police with criminal offences and the reporting of crimes.

Facebook will not let the police into a users account if they were using it to organise crime as this goes against Facebook's security policy, and Uber follow suit and will not allow their app to be used to convict a criminal.

Both apps can hold vital data, such as locations and times but to share that information is against their own policy's, hence why they will not share data with the police.

Why are they just preventing Uber from operating in London then, as opposed to other major cities? Or are they just protecting the 'cabbies' monopoly on London taxi travel?

[UpTheBeehole]

Why are they just preventing Uber from operating in London then, as opposed to other major cities? Or are they just protecting the 'cabbies' monopoly on London taxi travel?

Because Transport For London only have jurisdiction for London, remarkably.

[Rileybobs]

Because Transport For London only have jurisdiction for London, remarkably.

OK, I worded that wrongly. TFL are a government body - if the government essentially deem that Uber are unfit to operate as a licensed cab in London then surely it would follow suit that they are unfit to operate throughout the country?

[quoonbeatz]

they're brilliant in and around manchester, unless its peak times then the surge pricing is a bit crap.

noticed a few of the local firms have got similar apps as well now so you get the driver details and car tracking etc.

[Spijed]

Anyone daft enough to get a black cab in London will feel like they've just met Dick Turpin.

[Walton]

they're brilliant in and around manchester, unless its peak times then the surge pricing is a bit crap.

noticed a few of the local firms have got similar apps as well now so you get the driver details and car tracking etc.

Leeds' taxi firm Amber had a fully featured app ages before Uber came to town, and it was brilliant. And they were cheap.

They didn't operate surge pricing, but it could be a pain (45min wait) to get a taxi from the main drinking quarters at kicking out times.

I used to swerve that by walking 5 mins to the train station, and all of a sudden a taxi was available immediately, as I now had the one-way system in my favour.

Best ever lifehack.

I certainly miss their pricing now I'm subject to Pendle's extortionate strategy.

[aggi]

I think the Facebook/Uber and disclosing to the police is a bit disingenuous. They'll disclose with a warrant but not just at the general request, which seems reasonable.

I suspect this has more to do with the increased licence fee that TFL wanted. The previous licence was £40k, the new one is £3m. They're seeing who will blink first.

I'll be very surprised if they don't get a licence in the end with undertakings to sort out those various issues and a hefty fee increase.

I don't use them much in London but it has always been a good service when I have, better than black cabs. What I really find useful though is that the same app works in many other countries, I've used it all over the world where attempting to get a local taxi would be a real hassle.

[arise_sir_charge]

In my experience taxi licensing regs are different county to county, town to town.

What happens in one place is generally not the same in another. It's run by local authorities.

This explains why in some areas all the private hire cars are modern and new yet in others they are 15 year old Skoda Octavia's that have been to the moon and back.

[starting_11]

A dinosaur organisation with drivers pressuring them to cling on to their gravy train wants to take on a multi billion dollar venture capital backed company for one of the worlds biggest markets.... do they really think little old TFL have a chance of winning this??

It's only gonna cost everyone else to fight this petty battle.

[UpTheBeehole]

A dinosaur organisation with drivers pressuring them to cling on to their gravy train wants to take on a multi billion dollar venture capital backed company for one of the worlds biggest markets.... do they really think little old TFL have a chance of winning this??

It's only gonna cost everyone else to fight this petty battle.

The dinosaur organisations of:

Denmark
Hungary
Italy
Bulgaria
Taiwan
Portland, Oregon, and until recently
Alaska

Have all stood up to the bastards at Uber.

About time they played by the rules.

[ClaretEngineer]

A dinosaur organisation with drivers pressuring them to cling on to their gravy train wants to take on a multi billion dollar venture capital backed company for one of the worlds biggest markets.... do they really think little old TFL have a chance of winning this??

It's only gonna cost everyone else to fight this petty battle.

Exactly what I wanted to say, but I couldn't have put it quite so well!

There are some traditions that worth holding on to. This isn't one of them. More competition for the Monoply that is the London Black Cab market can only be a good thing.

[Claretto]

From the sounds of it Uber won't actually stop operating. They will begin a lengthy appeal, during which time they will still be able to operate.

[Spijed]

The dinosaur organisations of:

Denmark
Hungary
Italy
Bulgaria
Taiwan
Portland, Oregon, and until recently
Alaska

Have all stood up to the bastards at Uber.

About time they played by the rules.

So you think the rates that Black Cab drivers are able to charge is fair?

[UpTheBeehole]

So you think the rates that Black Cab drivers are able to charge is fair?

I think the rates that private hire firms charge, such as Addison Lee, are perfectly fine and market driven.

You don't HAVE to travel with Uber

[HatfieldClaret]

Correct Claretto

Good news and hats off to citizen Khan, but cue judicial review etc. I hope TfL have got it right.

[UpTheBeehole]

Spijed why do you defend Uber?

Their organisation is based entirely on a pure capitalist model, and to hell with standards or duty of care or the right to get in a car and not have an unvetted sex offender pull the car over and submit you to an assault.

A recent study showed that of 60,000 Uber cars in New York, just 200 of them were accessible by people in wheelchairs. I know you're an advocate of the paralympics etc, so how do you feel about that? 99.9%

[skibum84]

I'd love it if you could get UBERs around Burnley. So easy to use. Great when abroad.

[MarkGreen]

The amount of times I have walked into a taxi rank and been quoted a price, only for the cheeky t*** driver to try and add a couple of extra £ once we arrive is the reason apps like UBER are successful.

I must point out, these taxi rank trips are usually about 5-6am after a few scoops... I'd try my luck if I was the driver too!

[Sausage]

OK, I worded that wrongly. TFL are a government body - if the government essentially deem that Uber are unfit to operate as a licensed cab in London then surely it would follow suit that they are unfit to operate throughout the country?

TfL is not a government body; it's a quango at arms length from the GLA. And quangos have statutory powers even when there is no apparent democratic accountability.

You'll note the TfL's decision is to not renew the licence as opposed to revoking the existing licence. Revocation of a licence is a costly and time-consuming affair. So I assume it will be at the discretion of each licensing authority up and down the country what their course of action will be, as and when licences come up for renewal. In the fullness of time Uber will sort their **** out in London (even if it has to be fought in the courts) and their new licence will be a template for use across England.

[Spijed]

Spijed why do you defend Uber?

Their organisation is based entirely on a pure capitalist model, and to hell with standards or duty of care or the right to get in a car and not have an unvetted sex offender pull the car over and submit you to an assault.

A recent study showed that of 60,000 Uber cars in New York, just 200 of them were accessible by people in wheelchairs. I know you're an advocate of the paralympics etc, so how do you feel about that? 99.9%

I'm not defending them as such, but there needs to be more of an open market. Black cab drivers have no qualms about ripping you off by taking tourists the 'long way' round on a journey.

With regards to disability, the USA in general has a long way to go with wheelchair users. How many yellow cabs that you see on the streets over there are accessible? BTW, At the Paralympics the USA didn't even have an official photographer!

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

"A recent study showed that of 60,000 Uber cars in New York, just 200 of them were accessible by people in wheelchairs. I know you're an advocate of the paralympics etc, so how do you feel about that? 99.9%"

Use another company that has more accessible vehicles then! They are not a monopoly, customers have the choice to book with them or not, If you don't want to run the risk of your driver being a serial sex offender don't book with Uber, its your choice. I don't fancy food poisoning on holiday, so i never book to go on an Egypt cruise. And I've no problem with those that do.

Yes it is called capitalism which is anathema to some of you, but it is also called 'customer choice'

[aggi]

Spijed why do you defend Uber?

Their organisation is based entirely on a pure capitalist model, and to hell with standards or duty of care or the right to get in a car and not have an unvetted sex offender pull the car over and submit you to an assault.

A recent study showed that of 60,000 Uber cars in New York, just 200 of them were accessible by people in wheelchairs. I know you're an advocate of the paralympics etc, so how do you feel about that? 99.9%

As Spijed said, New York is significantly different from London in that way. In fact, Uber in the US is a very different experience to the UK. Most of the drivers over there are just doing it as a bit on the side along with their normal job, cars are everyday cars and can be a bit knackered. Over here on the other hand it is much more like a taxi firm. Cars are much cleaner and more taxi style, drivers smarter and do more hours.

A quick look at the app suggests I'd currently be waiting 3 minutes for a standard Uber, 7 minutes for a wheelchair friendly or 8 minutes for an Assist (not entirely sure what these are for, seems they offer assistance for those in folding wheelchairs, mobility scooters, etc). I don't think that is too bad.

[UpTheBeehole]

As Spijed said, New York is significantly different from London in that way. In fact, Uber in the US is a very different experience to the UK. Most of the drivers over there are just doing it as a bit on the side along with their normal job, cars are everyday cars and can be a bit knackered. Over here on the other hand it is much more like a taxi firm. Cars are much cleaner and more taxi style, drivers smarter and do more hours.

A quick look at the app suggests I'd currently be waiting 3 minutes for a standard Uber, 7 minutes for a wheelchair friendly or 8 minutes for an Assist (not entirely sure what these are for, seems they offer assistance for those in folding wheelchairs, mobility scooters, etc). I don't think that is too bad.

What about if you knew the driver hadn't been DBS checked, couldn't speak english, and anyone with a sticker, a mobile and a preference to waive all working rights to an organisation of megalomaniacs could set themself up as an Uber driver?

Your driver could be the next Gary Glitter or Ian Brady, and booking an Uber would put you in the position of being locked in a car with them.

[aggi]

What about if you knew the driver hadn't been DBS checked, couldn't speak english, and anyone with a sticker, a mobile and a preference to waive all working rights to an organisation of megalomaniacs could set themself up as an Uber driver?

Your driver could be the next Gary Glitter or Ian Brady, and booking an Uber would put you in the position of being locked in a car with them.

Or the next John Worboys?

I believe that Uber need to improve their procedures. However, an app where you can share details of the car that you're in, the driver, eta, etc goes someway to help this. The majority of the headlines on assaults, etc relate to accusations, not convictions which is a slightly dubious metric.

I'm not sure what it has to do with disabled-friendly vehicles though.

[bfccrazy]

What about if you knew the driver hadn't been DBS checked, couldn't speak english, and anyone with a sticker, a mobile and a preference to waive all working rights to an organisation of megalomaniacs could set themself up as an Uber driver?

Your driver could be the next Gary Glitter or Ian Brady, and booking an Uber would put you in the position of being locked in a car with them.

What if someone was walking down the street and encoutered the next Levi Bellfield ..... There is a choice in life and always thinking the worst is going to happen won't lead to much.

You have a choice to use these apps if you're comfortable doing so .... If we had to plan for the worst people in humanity being in every walk of life we have a choice to encounter - the only way we could do it would be everyone made to wear a badge similar to the hygeine ratings on the doors of takeaways - maybe a 5 star rating of how "rapey" or "murdery" someone has the potential to be?

[UpTheBeehole]

What if someone was walking down the street and encoutered the next Levi Bellfield ..... There is a choice in life and always thinking the worst is going to happen won't lead to much.

You have a choice to use these apps if you're comfortable doing so .... If we had to plan for the worst people in humanity being in every walk of life we have a choice to encounter - the only way we could do it would be everyone made to wear a badge similar to the hygeine ratings on the doors of takeaways - maybe a 5 star rating of how "rapey" or "murdery" someone has the potential to be?

Or an employer could interview such a person and combine it with a DBS check, like most big employers would in that situation.

Uber just say 'away you go' as soon as you've signed a piece of paper signing away your rights.

[Claretto]

I think the rates that private hire firms charge, such as Addison Lee, are perfectly fine and market driven.

You don't HAVE to travel with Uber

The danger being if a huge market participant like Uber suddenly disappears then these market forces disappear and Addison Lee prices shoot up.

[bfccrazy]

Or an employer could interview such a person and combine it with a DBS check, like most big employers would in that situation.

Uber just say 'away you go' as soon as you've signed a piece of paper signing away your rights.

Which then gives you a personal choice to use these apps - some of the weirdest drivers I have had pick me up in taxis have been from registerred an licensed local firms - and though I prefer not to use Uber myself ... I have been in "an uber" with mates and found that the drivers were much better than a lot of the local drivers I have used who sit constantly chatting on their handsfree and never know the fare.

[UpTheBeehole]

The danger being if a huge market participant like Uber suddenly disappears then these market forces disappear and Addison Lee prices shoot up.

Or, like the vast majority of people do in London anyway, just get on the Tube.

[Rileybobs]

Or, like the vast majority of people do in London anyway, just get on the Tube.

40,000 drivers suggest that there's a pretty big market for taxis - especially after midnight.

[aggi]

Admittedly UpTheBeehole is exaggerating a bit for effect here. The Uber drivers have to be licensed as minicab drivers by TFL, the same as any others, which involves a DBS check. There is an issue however that TFL are now insisting that all DBS checks are done by their own contractor rather than one of a number of third party providers which it appears hasn't been followed.

On AddLee (who I probably use more than Uber in London), they have decreased their off-peak pricing following Uber's introduction to the market.

[Claretto]

40,000 drivers suggest that there's a pretty big market for taxis - especially after midnight.

Uber is also often cheaper than the tube if you are sharing with a few. And it seems every other month there's a strike !

[Claretto]

On AddLee (who I probably use more than Uber in London), they have decreased their off-peak pricing following Uber's introduction to the market.

Yes, me too. The prices are competitive now and the experience miles better. We can say goodbye to this if Uber goes !

[Spijed]

Or, like the vast majority of people do in London anyway, just get on the Tube.

Most people won't live near a tube station so a night bus is the best option.

[starting_11]

40,000 drivers suggest that there's a pretty big market for taxis - especially after midnight.

Yeah hardly any tubes around at night due to cabbies and unions. That's why TFL have taken this stance against Uber.

[Spijed]

Petition to keep Uber reaches 400k

Obviously people would take a risk than pay the black cab fees

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