BAE - well over 1,000 UK jobs going

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:15 am

Sky News reporting that BAE are cutting 'well over 1,000' jobs, including lots at Warton.

One source saying that 2/3rds of the jobs at Warton could go eventually.

http://news.sky.com/story/bae-systems-t ... n-11073489

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:52 am

Wasn't the Typhoon problematic when first made?

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:56 pm

Clearly not too many people bothered. Engineers, technicians and skilled workers will soon be wearing McDonalds apparel so all's well that ends well.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:59 pm

Pretty disgusting if they do.. Another massive cut to the engineering industry.. There are going to be no skilled workforces around our area before long ..

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:01 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Wasn't the Typhoon problematic when first made?

"There was a time in the history of everything that worked when it didn't"

Though admittedly it's usually before a multi-billion contract is signed.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:02 pm

Random Fact: The word "bae" is the Danish word for "poop"

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:24 pm

I would imagine HS2 will need thousands of skilled engineers when construction starts. Will we have any left by then ?

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:31 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Random Fact: The word "bae" is the Danish word for "poop"

I also was confused when someone said the word on facebook to somebody - and upon googling it was more confused when the aerospace link came up.

Apparently it's also a cutesy term which means "before anybody else" too

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:32 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:I would imagine HS2 will need thousands of skilled engineers when construction starts. Will we have any left by then ?

They'll all have been sent back to Poland by then

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:36 pm

Massive shame.

I get the point about technical people losing work and with no other industry to transfer to, and with the closure of the purpose "modified" technical college, it seems that GB's history of being technically excellent will be resigned to the history books.

MacDonalds it is then...

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:38 pm

bfccrazy wrote:They'll all have been sent back to Poland by then

I would think not...

Who do you think will be BUILDING HS2??? think foreign skilled labour is a MASSIVE part of the plan. Without it, we couldn't function properly anymore

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:49 pm

We are technically excellent, on par with Germany even though they seem to get a much better rep than we do.

Again it will be the ''expendables'' the people who actually do the work that will be getting cleared out.

I'd take the figure with a pinch of salt as a good number of the ''cuts'' will likely be contractors, who won't be having their contracts renewed.

But if you are a good quality engineer in any discipline you will never struggle to find a job.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:51 pm

3 million jobs have been created since 2009

Three million.

3,000,000

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:54 pm

Rowls wrote:3 million jobs have been created since 2009

Three million.

3,000,000

Are they engineering jobs paying above the average national salary?

Or 3 people working 12 hours a week in a warehouse on minimum wage instead of 1 working full time?

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:57 pm

Low value jobs are being created which are low paid and contribute to low GDP growth and low productivity. These jobs thrive while more productive jobs often do not. That is exactly why wages have stagnated in real terms (that and public sector austerity).

This has been a problem for decades and precedes Brexit. Whatever we were doing before, whether it is a national issue or an issue relating to how we sit in the EU, it isn’t working and something needs to change.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:59 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Are they engineering jobs paying above the average national salary?

Or 3 people working 12 hours a week in a warehouse on minimum wage instead of 1 working full time?

We all know the answer to that .. Time the Tories were put to the sword..

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:02 pm

Here you are you lazy get:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/u ... ll-tories/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs ... ggled.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:03 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Low value jobs are being created which are low paid and contribute to low GDP growth and low productivity. These jobs thrive while more productive jobs often do not. That is exactly why wages have stagnated in real terms (that and public sector austerity).
This has been a problem for decades and precedes Brexit. Whatever we were doing before, whether it is a national issue or an issue relating to how we sit in the EU, it isn’t working and something needs to change.

Wrong.

See linked articles above.

conyoviejo wrote:We all know the answer to that .. Time the Tories were put to the sword..

Wrong.

See linked articles above.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:16 pm

Minimum wage jobs need filling too.
We aren't quite at the stage where a machine will take and process your order at Macdonalds, although some fast food places in the USA are trialling it.

As for the BAE jobs, it happens often enough that it shouldn't be a surprise.
They change to suit their business climate/orders by the looks of it.

: IMG_1980.PNG (315.3 KiB) Viewed 5283 times

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:17 pm

: IMG_1981.PNG (350.68 KiB) Viewed 5280 times

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:37 pm

Rowls wrote:3 million jobs have been created since 2009

Three million.

3,000,000

We're the only European economy that couples positive GDP growth with shrinking wages. So all those jobs are great because to earn a decent living for a family in this country you're going to need more than one of them.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:43 pm

Rowls wrote:Here you are you lazy get:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/u ... ll-tories/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs ... ggled.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This isn't the kind of thing you'd normally post

A Britain which is semi-detached from Europe would not have the same growth and job creation potential we have seen in recent years – and this needs to be recognised when we get to a referendum on EU membership in 2016 or 2017.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:08 pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bene ... -spzs6b662" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go on, Rowls. If the economy is going great guns, and all these awesome new jobs are increasing tax revenue then explain why we can't afford to feed poor people any more.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:25 pm

That doesn't make sense.

Who's job is it to feed people?
People themselves with the money they get from either wages or handouts...

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:50 pm

They wouldnt give me a job when I applied. FCK em.

Pimlico_Claret · Post by **Pimlico_Claret** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 pm

Saxoman wrote:They wouldnt give me a job when I applied. FCK em.

Amazing. You manage to be a prick on a non football topic too.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:14 pm

Sidney1st wrote:That doesn't make sense.

Who's job is it to feed people?
People themselves with the money they get from either wages or handouts...

We're being told that we have record low unemployment which means we're supposed to have shy-high employment, yet apparently we can't afford the record low unemployment benefits no when we could afford it in the past when unemployment was higher and emplouyment was lower. So that means revenue per employee is shrinking, which implies wages are shrinking. Which will get worse when brexit-induced inflation really bites.

Therefore we can't afford to feed our poor people now like we could in the past because wages are shrinking.

pushpinpussy · Post by **pushpinpussy** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:15 pm

could be worse. could be me

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:46 pm

Rowls wrote:Here you are you lazy get:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/u ... ll-tories/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs ... ggled.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This tickled me. In defending the Government Rowls most left wing examples (to prove it as universally accepted) reporting is The Spectator and the Telegraph.

I get the impression Rowls doesn't often move in circles that could tell you where the nearest food-bank is. Rowls doesn't just tow the tory line it wouldn't surprise my if he helped bloody draw it. This country is bombing to an abis through the total ineptitude of the Tory Party. They're too busy checking their own annals to run a bloody paper round. It is going to get worse, a lot worse. AND I VOTED BREXIT. This has nothing to do with Brexit, the common market or freedom of movement. This is purely to do with having a Government that is not fit for purpose.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:11 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:We're being told that we have record low unemployment which means we're supposed to have shy-high employment, yet apparently we can't afford the record low unemployment benefits no when we could afford it in the past when unemployment was higher and emplouyment was lower. So that means revenue per employee is shrinking, which implies wages are shrinking. Which will get worse when brexit-induced inflation really bites.

Therefore we can't afford to feed our poor people now like we could in the past because wages are shrinking.

People need to start giving up luxuries and changing their shopping habits then first and foremost.
Your average poor person will usually smoke, have a mobile phone contract and stuck in a circle of debt etc.
They need to start breaking the cycles and change how they eat.
If I really wanted to I could feed myself on £10-15 a week, I've done it before when I've been skint for a while.
Its the quickest way for a porker like me to lose weight too.

I've every sympathy for those in real need, but I also know people like those I've described who I've no sympathy for.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:12 pm

Ineptitude of the Tory party, because you'd really trust Labour again...

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:33 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Ineptitude of the Tory party, because you'd really trust Labour again...

Genuinely don't think I'll know until the day. I wouldn't talk to any of the current lot if they were down the pub, so why the k would I want to vote for them. (courtesy B Connelly)

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:49 pm

conyoviejo wrote:We all know the answer to that .. Time the Tories were put to the sword..

This was happening loooooong before the Tories got in power again. Pay attention.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:01 pm

bobinho wrote:This was happening loooooong before the Tories got in power again. Pay attention.

The use of zero-hour contracts exploded after the financial crash of 2008. Tell me, who's been in power for most of the time since then? And how much have they done to tackle this exploitative practice?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:18 pm

It is going to get worse, a lot worse. AND I VOTED BREXIT.

Yeah, well, its not like you were not warned

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:32 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The use of zero-hour contracts exploded after the financial crash of 2008. Tell me, who's been in power for most of the time since then? And how much have they done to tackle this exploitative practice?

Yet prior to that crash Labour did nothing to stop the use of zero hour contracts, is that correct?
Just for some balance of course.

Plus what percentage of the work force are on zero hour contracts?

Here's a link to save some time, its just under 3% according to the ONS.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... rs/may2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hardly crippling the workforce is it?
There has been a big leap after 2013, but as per the report the term 'zero hour contract' and recognising what it was years ago could have an affect on the older figures.

Can we stop flapping now?

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:45 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yeah, well, its not like you were not warned

Not like my experience of you as a poster Lancaster to deliberately take a comment out of context for the sake of cheap point scoring. But to re-iterate This has a lot less to do with Brexit than Tories too busy jockeying to be in the limelight for the top jobs to actually do their jobs properly.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:50 pm

Even if its nothing to do with Brexit Elwa, and as an intelligent bloke, you know this is only the beginning.

I take no pleasure what so ever in being right about this since, well, since it became an issue.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:54 pm

Yeah no one in the defence industry ever lost their jobs when a project slowed down...

It's all about Brexit.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:55 pm

As proven, BAE chop jobs on a regular basis and have done since the 90's at least.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:03 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Yet prior to that crash Labour did nothing to stop the use of zero hour contracts, is that correct?
Just for some balance of course.

Plus what percentage of the work force are on zero hour contracts?

Here's a link to save some time, its just under 3% according to the ONS.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... rs/may2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hardly crippling the workforce is it?
There has been a big leap after 2013, but as per the report the term 'zero hour contract' and recognising what it was years ago could have an affect on the older figures.

Can we stop flapping now?

They weren't used anything like as much prior to the crash as they are now. If they were then it would be a fair point to hold Labour equally responcible for the exploitation. But since they were pretty rare i think it's understandable that they didn't make them an issue.

But there's no excuse for recent governments from allowing the exploitation to continue. They can't say they don't know of its existence.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:06 pm

Zero hours contracts are the only way to get casual labour nowadays. The time when you could legally ask a mate to fill in for a couple of hours are gone. With real time PAYE, you have to register an employee with HMRC before he can legally do any work for you. (Or of course you can pay him cash in hand and say nothing. Sometimes it's the only practical solution.)

Someone whose only income now is via a zero hours contract now, is in the same or similar boat to someone whose only income was casual labour ten years ago.

So bear in miond that if you abolish zero hours contracts, you make it very much harder for students to get part-time jobs.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:27 pm

Uncertainty is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really bad for business.

Firms have to make long term plans based on all sorts of stuff, and though this is much more likely to be because of a slowdown in orders for the Typhoon to Brexit, it will have factored in their calculations.

Now until Mrs May and her band of merry men and women can sort out their internal differences and actually get around to running the country, we are probably going to see a lot more of this.

The only people who think that "the ball is in the EU court" are the sort of people who think this is a ******* game, and not peoples livelihoods.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:27 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:They weren't used anything like as much prior to the crash as they are now. If they were then it would be a fair point to hold Labour equally responcible for the exploitation. But since they were pretty rare i think it's understandable that they didn't make them an issue.

But there's no excuse for recent governments from allowing the exploitation to continue. They can't say they don't know of its existence.

As you've confirmed they were used and Labour did nothing to stop their usage or existence.
Keep blaming just the one party though.
5 yrs after the crash of 2008 there was a significant increase yes.

There's no excuse for any government to allow them to exist, but you keep on blaming the Tories.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:31 pm

Absolutely nobody is stopping you from feeding poor people. Get on with it

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:35 pm

Also, surely Brexit will help skilled workers in this country find work on schemes like HS2 when EU legislation doesn't demand we offer contracts to French and German firms before considering bids by British companies. This is why most sensible people have had enough of this toxic trade cartel

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:36 pm

Sidney1st wrote:As you've confirmed they were used and Labour did nothing to stop their usage or existence.
Keep blaming just the one party though.
5 yrs after the crash of 2008 there was a significant increase yes.

There's no excuse for any government to allow them to exist, but you keep on blaming the Tories.

It takes an extreme kind of partisan to think that when a government of one party did nothing about something that wasn't a problem is as equally responcible as a government that refuses to do anything about it when it's a massive problem.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:38 pm

Damo wrote:Also, surely Brexit will help skilled workers in this country find work on schemes like HS2 when EU legislation doesn't demand we offer contracts to French and German firms before considering bids by British companies. This is why most sensible people have had enough of this toxic trade cartel

Is that really what the EU legislation says? I don't think it does. Feel free to prove my suspicions wrong though.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It takes an extreme kind of partisan to think that when a government of one party did nothing about something that wasn't a problem is as equally responcible as a government that refuses to do anything about it when it's a massive problem.

It isn't a massive issue, its less than 3% of the workforce and many of those will be students or older workers who don't want fixed contracts...

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Is that really what the EU legislation says? I don't think it does. Feel free to prove my suspicions wrong though.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/1002641 ... sit_plant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;