I'd Say "Stick Your curriculum Up Your A**e"

[BleedingClaret]

A very long post based on my use of the word radicalisation rather than conversion.
So just to be clear. RE teaching does not preach conversion to Islam, it merely puts the various religions into context, and there's nothing in the article linked by the OP that suggests that a school is trying to convert students to Islam.
If you have any understanding / knowledge whatsoever of modern education you would realise just how rigorously this sort of thing is monitored. Even the slightest suggestion / accusation that you were trying to convert students to a particular religion would be investigated thoroughly, and if found to be the case, it would be grounds for immediate dismissal.

As I flipped the homework task to Muslims being asked to write a letter imagining that they were to convert to Christianity, which would undoubtedly be seized upon by Muslim parents as unacceptable and most likely deemed as Racist, I am displaying my understanding of human nature.
Balance is that school teaches my children Religion and I tell them they are just badly evolved Monkeys.
They can make their choice.

[Dazzler]

What we need is less Islam

https://youtu.be/bmAmS8-4xvA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[UpTheBeehole]

Here's the exact same story from February 2016.

It is on the curriculum.

Outrage as school asks pupils to pretend to convert to Islam for homework assignment
The assignment said 'Please also note this is a piece of creative writing and completely fictional YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY CONVERTING TO ISLAM', but despite assurances, some locals still expressed concerns

A school in Guernsey has provoked outrage after asking pupils to write a letter pretending they are converting to Islam.

Pupils aged 12 and 13 at Les Beauchamps High School were asked to pen the creative writing exercise as part of a religious education lesson. They were asked to write a letter to their parents explaining that they had converted to Islam and hope that their family would respect their decision.

The homework briefing stated: “Complete the letter you started or started planning in class to your family on how you are converting to Islam. Include: How you’re feeling, how becoming a Muslim has changed your life, how much you love your family and hope they can accept your choice.

“Focus: How would it make you feel having to tell your parents this? How would/ could they react?”

The assignment ended with the clarification: “Please also note this is a piece of creative writing and completely fictional YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY CONVERTING TO ISLAM. It is purely to test your knowledge of what we have learnt this year and how well you can argue objectively!!!!!!!!”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 90951.html


Turns out that a lot of islamophobes can't argue objectively, which was the whole premise of the homework

[Damo]

I'd say that a woman in a hijab walking past a pub and getting a load of racist abuse (as happened in a TV documentary aired recently) tolerates quite a lot actually.

Yes, she tolerates having to hide her face so her owner doesn't become jealous for starters

[Dazzler]

It is still rather unnecessary.there are plenty of other topics where children can learn to master their debating skills.

[bfccrazy]

I have not read most of the thread but can guess it'll probably include the usual stuff.

My niece and nephew are both muslim (as I am and all my family is). They attended a CofE primary school and my nephew is now at a catholic high school - My family actively tell them to get involved in any activities at the school so they can experience a wide range of belief systems and understand them better.

My nephew has been to mass with school - my niece attended a ceremony at a church a few nights ago for kids from her class being confirmed at church (this was after school and not compulsory to attend). Am I scared that they will come home one day and say "oh, I want to go to church" - not really as if they make that decision then it will be from something they have felt themselves to be right for them.

The big argument here is that you don't want your son exposed to anything which YOU believe to be wrong - instead of letting him make an informed decision himself. I've found the more my parents point blank told me not to do something instead of sitting and discussing it with me, the more it intrigued me. It seems you're hindering the lad by not letting him discuss, learn and broaden his knowledge on a subject that even you don't know much about..... Seems a little weird to me personally.

[Dazzler]

I think you needed to read the full thread before making certain assumptions.

[UpTheBeehole]

Yes, she tolerates having to hide her face so her owner doesn't become jealous for starters

You're confusing a hijab and a niqab.

Common mistake with thick racists.



The woman in the TV programme I refer to was a white christian, wearing a hijab for the TV show. She cried, such was the abuse she received.

[bfccrazy]

You're confusing a hijab and a niqab.

Common mistake with thick racists.



The woman in the TV programme I refer to was a white christian, wearing a hijab for the TV show. She cried, such was the abuse she received.

It'a just bantz ....... She needs to grow a pair ....

[MrTopTier]

Why not opt out of being taught it in the first place, if you feel that strongly about Religion?
It is I believe, along with sex education opt-outable if the parent/child feels strongly enough about it.

[Damo]

You're confusing a hijab and a niqab.

Common mistake with thick racists.

Thick racists like the encyclopedia of Islam and the Muslim world?

IMG_20171110_170310.jpg (643.15 KiB) Viewed 3313 times

[Greenmile]

it's like everything these days
Sexual equality is for Women only

Racial equality is for the coloured only
Asian groomers were misunderstood, not pedophiles at all.
Apparently over 12've is fine
Female genital mutilation is Ok if they go back home to do it... it seems
Asian women have a right to the hijab but not to not wearing it
Asian men have a right to beat the **** out of their women if they don't behave not to law but to Sharia
Asian men have an honourable right to kill their women
Racial equality trumps Sexual equality as the above 6 lines prove

Gender neutrality is nuts (or not)

White males are all evil doers

All of the above is a figment of your imagination, and your use of the word "coloured" is about 40 years out of date.

[ClaretMoffitt]

You keep saying this...on threads where loads of people are criticising Islam. Don't you realise how stupid that makes you look?

Yet here the OP is, getting tons of abuse for criticism islam. So how was I wrong exactly?

[TheFamilyCat]

Yet here the OP is, getting tons of abuse for criticism islam. So how was I wrong exactly?

Where in the OP is the criticisism of Islam?

[Greenmile]

Yet here the OP is, getting tons of abuse for criticism islam. So how was I wrong exactly?

You said "Islam is off limits from any and all criticism". What it appears that you meant to say was "people who criticise Islam should be off limits from any and all criticism".

[ClaretMoffitt]

You said "Islam is off limits from any and all criticism". What it appears that you meant to say was "people who criticise Islam should be off limits from any and all criticism".

No, but being held to the same standards as those who criticize Christianity would be a start, even though the two are worlds apart in terms of social issues.

[Greenmile]

No, but being held to the same standards as those who criticize Christianity would be a start...

Can't argue with that. Not sure it doesn't happen already though. There seems to be a lot less criticism of Christianity (on here, at least) so there's not much of a sample size to draw comparisons from.

[Sidney1st]

Here's the exact same story from February 2016.

It is on the curriculum.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 90951.html


Turns out that a lot of islamophobes can't argue objectively, which was the whole premise of the homework

I’ve got to say I think that’s a brilliant homework idea.
Forces the kids to think about it properly and research etc.

I’d be quite impressed if my sons school do the same,

[Dazzler]

From what I can gather from comments from certain posts is that anyone who has an aversion to Islam is a 'thick person'...?

Fantastic original debating skills

There seems to be a lot less criticism of Christianity (on here, at least) so there's not much of a sample size to draw comparisons from.

Maybe the reason for that is that there is less of an issue with Christianity than there is with Islam.

[RingoMcCartney]

Last one before the weekend.

This would, in my opinion, be great homework for children, as it's take some great researching skills.

Given many in the West believe Islam has so so much to offer us.

Name ONE islamic country where the following ALL exist -

The rights of

1 religious minorities.

2 ethnic minotities

3 women

4 homosexuals

Are protected.

Where there are -

1 free trade unions

2 open and real democracy

3 a free press, tv and radio that exists without government interference and fear of imprisonment.

4 where a judiciary does exist, it's decisions are not based on God's pronouncements.

Just one boys and girls, where all the above exist. Just one........

[Flatline]

I find Christianity and Islam as very similar in their teachings.Liberals however seem to be hell bent on protecting Muslims at the slightest criticism, where as Christians are ridiculed constantly for their out dated beliefs.Strange people those self righteous lot,they seem to not like where they came from and have a deep desire to eradicate it.

[evensteadiereddie]

The criticism of this thread's opening is nothing to do with "liberals"...........it's to do with stopping and thinking, finding out EXACTLY what the kid's curriculum offers over the year, discussion with the teacher and kid and, if the kid's not happy, he or she is pulled from the class.
When some oaf shows himself up by shrieking down the phone at a teacher and claiming most Muslims are likely to attack non-Muslims, that's when the criticism is necessary.
Mind you, my newsagent's a Muslim and you should have heard the intent with which he said, "Morning, you're in early today !"
It fair frightened me to death.
If that wasn't scary enough, he said, "See you later." as he passed me my change.
His cheery smile didn't fool me, you betcha. ..............cos some people on here know The Truth

[Dazzler]

When some oaf shows himself up by shrieking down the phone at a teacher and claiming most Muslims

Hahaha this is what we have to put up with...exaggeration and assumption.

I wrote further up this thread that It was a cordial chat until she went all snotty and condescending...she was the one who raised her voice.

[Inchy]

I find Christianity and Islam as very similar in their teachings.Liberals however seem to be hell bent on protecting Muslims at the slightest criticism, where as Christians are ridiculed constantly for their out dated beliefs.Strange people those self righteous lot,they seem to not like where they came from and have a deep desire to eradicate it.

I was brought up catholic and then I realised it all a load of ********

Don’t worry I treat all religions equally. They are all ********. But you have the right to believe in the ******** if you want. It’s when starts interfering with my life when I get annoyed

[Greenmile]

I find Christianity and Islam as very similar in their teachings.Liberals however seem to be hell bent on protecting Muslims at the slightest criticism, where as Christians are ridiculed constantly for their out dated beliefs.Strange people those self righteous lot,they seem to not like where they came from and have a deep desire to eradicate it.

What Inchy said...

But also, something like this from earlier in this thread is a bit worse than "ridicule", don't you think? (as well as being utter b@ll@cks, of course)

"Does any Christian need to know about Islam. Its followers mainly want to kill Christians, and do so on a fairly regular basis. Before you shout me down about this being only a small percentage of that faith, I'll just add that the more moderate followers of "the religion of peace" unerringly fail to condemn atrocities committed by their more radical brothers and sisters. IMHO of course."

[Flatline]

I was brought up catholic and then I realised it all a load of ********

Don’t worry I treat all religions equally. They are all ********. But you have the right to believe in the ******** if you want. It’s when starts interfering with my life when I get annoyed

..and here they come!

[Dazzler]

I find Christianity and Islam as very similar in their teachings.

As we all know,Along with Judaism,they are Abrahamic.

However..
https://youtu.be/q46tjUQatgI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sidney1st]

As we all know,Along with Judaism,they are Abrahamic.

However..
https://youtu.be/q46tjUQatgI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can’t mention that fact on here, about them being related, people get upset when I try to hammer that point home on here

That’s why it’s amusing they hate or disagree with each other..

[Flatline]

However some bird with a pair of tits is?

[Inchy]

..and here they come!

Bloody liberals coming on here making rational comments

[IanMcL]

Ignorance for some is bliss.

[morpheus2]

It is essential that children are educated in the truth about Islam, unfortunately the curriculum seems to be aiming to indoctrinate our kids with the same as the BBC/Guardian/Huff Po/CNN/ABC's whitewashed apologetics. Children should at least be encouraged to cross reference the apologists claims with access to contemporary sources - the ahadith, the Tafsirs, books on Islamic Jurisprudence, the early historical accounts and the earliest biographies of Muhammad. This will not happen though, honest enquiry is not encouraged in the same way as it is with the other Abrahamic religions/cults, and for obvious reasons.

[Damo]

Thick racists like the encyclopedia of Islam and the Muslim world?

IMG_20171110_170310.jpg

Can you confirm who the thick racist is please.
Also, so you want to knock me out. Cheers

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

Whether Christian, Jew or Muslim they both believe in the same God.

Stephen Fry thinks if God exists he is a capricious, mean minded and stupid. I tend to agree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI

[Dazzler]

This is very much worth watching in full.Catholics may be offended though.
Fry and Christopher Hitchens v Anne Widdecombe and the hapless Archbishop John Onaiyekan.

https://youtu.be/JZRcYaAYWg4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dazzler]

Hitchens: "Don't waste my time with Islam"

https://youtu.be/5sEcBzxoMB8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dazzler]

Richard Dawkins: "To Hell With Their Culture"

https://youtu.be/LvvQJ_zsL1U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sleeperclaret]

Taking religion out of it for a minute, if, as a creative writing exercise, the child was asked to write a similar letter telling their parents that they were gay, putting themselves in that situation and explaining it like the purpose for the religious exercise, would that be offensive to people?

As a matter of principle, the more people on the planet who are able to understand and identify with people and put themselves in their shoes by empathising with their situations, the better our societies will be. The exact thing that people criticise other cultures for, isolationism etc, are being reflected by people's attitudes on here and for me that's just very disappointing and sad.

[nil_desperandum]

Good post sleeperclaret. This thread was never really about religion or specifically Islam. It was about what should (or shouldn't) be taught in RE / SMSC and the appropriateness of a creative writing task.
Some good points have been made about this, but some of the usual suspects have hijacked it, bringing up points about religions that you may - or may not - agree with, but which contribute little or nothing to the actual point of discussion.

[Dike Muff]

I think it's important to get to know different people; walk a mile in their shoes.
If after that you find them to be objectionable, then they're a mile away and aren't wearing any shoes. Win/win.

[sleeperclaret]

Thanks nil_desperandum. The beautiful irony of this thread is that an attempt by the curriculum to help others understand religion had led to an entrenchment of views on both sides.

The reality is neither of the extremes on display here but the unwillingness to learn, rather than pre-judge and shout accordingly, is indicative of the divisions in society that religion have been used to create.

In my view, religion was supposed to be about telling an uncivilized bunch of societies that there were bigger principles to live by, rather than living selfishly. They put names to it (gods, prophets, disciples) and stories to the names. They used unexplained phenomena to reinforce their message (earthquake = gods angry) and over time it grew. It created a different kind of power than physical strength. And like the strongest before them, some used that power to their personal advantage. Different beliefs undermined that power and so those people were bad.

All completely irrelevant, objectively, in a modern world where power is a bit more complex, but belief systems form an early and lasting part of people's psyche which can be difficult to break from.

The inability to differentiate what you believe and what is true is the biggest challenge facing society in the information age.

[evensteadiereddie]

Hahaha this is what we have to put up with...exaggeration and assumption.

I wrote further up this thread that It was a cordial chat until she went all snotty and condescending...she was the one who raised her voice.

The boasting tone of your opening post doesn't really suggest "cordiality" but there you go.
So you told her to stick her curriculum up her arse ?
Classy - not too embarrassing for your kid, eh ?

[aggi]

Mind you, my newsagent's a Muslim and you should have heard the intent with which he said, "Morning, you're in early today !"
It fair frightened me to death.
If that wasn't scary enough, he said, "See you later." as he passed me my change.
His cheery smile didn't fool me, you betcha. ..............cos some people on here know The Truth

Just to check, did he condemn any terror attacks whilst you were in there? And if not, why not?

[Dazzler]

In my view, religion was supposed to be about telling an uncivilized bunch of societies that there were bigger principles to live by, rather than living selfishly.

How far back are we going with your "uncivilised bunch"?

'Telling' the 'uncivilised' may have been the operative word but Education and the English bible was way down on the list.

[Dazzler]

On the issue of Islam,maybe every non muslim pupil should read a copy of the Koran and then express their thoughts in a creative manner.

[evensteadiereddie]

Just to check, did he condemn any terror attacks whilst you were in there? And if not, why not?

Why would he ? There hadn't been one.
He most certainly has in the past when I've bought a paper with an attack and its aftermath featured on the front page - why wouldn't he ?

[Lord Beamish]

On the issue of Islam,maybe every non muslim pupil should read a copy of the Koran and then express their thoughts in a creative manner.

Only if they illustrate it with images of Mohammed, surely?

[sleeperclaret]

How far back are we going with your "uncivilised bunch"?

'Telling' the 'uncivilised' may have been the operative word but Education and the English bible was way down on the list.

I was referring to the dawn of each civilisation. There were many religions before the ones that are still around today. Proclaiming you were a gods conduit was the only power you could get without being born into it or killing the king, especially if the king was of a superstitious nature.

And I was supposing religions may have had good intentions to start with. Some probably didn't but the "good" messages - not killing people and so on - could well have been to preserve the status quo and keep the fighters and hunters safe to fight wherever threats or wars needed to be fought.

[morpheus2]

On the issue of Islam,maybe every non muslim pupil should read a copy of the Koran and then express their thoughts in a creative manner.

Yes, that would be an interesting exercise, but the Qur'an on it's own is no good without the exegesis of the tafsirs and above all the collection of Sahih Ahadith.
Jihadis draw far more from the Ahadith than they do from the Qur'an when justifying acts of terror in the name of Allah.

The Qur'an on its own is an incoherent jumbled up mess in non chronological order going from largest sura to smallest.

The majority of the Qur'an is about informing believers how to deal with non believers and women, what Allah is going to do to non believers in hell, plagiarised Bible stories, Jew hatred, and making sure Muhammad's(pbuh) sexual and material desires are catered for. The Qur'an can only begin to be understood if it is studied using the other scriptures I have mentioned as reference.

Give schools this information and let them feel free to discuss it openly and honestly without fear of accusations of 'racism' and 'Islamophobia' and we may even see some of those indoctrinated from birth begin to question their religion and in turn move away from the possibility of being drawn into 'radicalisation'.

It is of course most important to discuss Sunni Islam rather than the media darling Ahmadiyya version which is dismissed as unislamic by all the mainstream sects.

[Pstotto]

There should be no religious education in schools other than to make ever child aware of the tricksters and purveyors of it all, coming to try and have interpersonal power and authority over them under any such auspices, along the lines of 'Don't get in any car with a stranger no matter how nice and charming they are or whatever they offer you, whether it is a bag of sweets or going to see some puppies.'