I'd Say "Stick Your curriculum Up Your A**e"

[Dazzler]

Then the question approached would be to consider why the study of religion was of any value. The answer to that could be defined as: 1. vocational, if your work entails interaction with the public, particularly in the public services, it is very useful to understand belief and practice. 2. Cultural, at personal level living in a multi-religious society, the study of religion helps us to understand other people and the ideas and even the prejudices they hold, in other words why they do what they do. It makes society more cohesive.

A Muslim woman rang in and said, "if non Muslim parents don't want their children to eat halal meat. They should give them a packed lunch."

Ah I get it now.... now I understand.

How 'Islamophobic' it would be to suggest that aĺl muslim pupils bring a packed lunch to school.

There endeth the lesson.

[evensteadiereddie]

Does it really matter ?
What's your kid's reaction to all this ? Proud of dad's heroic intervention, embarrassed by his oafish behaviour or not bothered either way ?

[Dazzler]

As I somewhat wrote earlier,which you may have conveniently overlooked,20 years after the event I would have to say it has not had any influence or effect on him whatsover.He just gets on with life.
The main point of my angst of which you may have also overlooked was...
Out of about 12 pages or more there was just one on christianity,maybe one or two on another but the vast majority were on Islam.
8 or 9 pages out of 12 on Islam..he was only 12 at the time.

Anyway,what is it with this assumption of 'oafish behaviour' and the rest of the derogatory terms?

Freedom!!!

Which reminds me..

https://youtu.be/gW7607YiBso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://youtu.be/-ZuowNcuGsc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Religion really is a protected belief.

[Dazzler]

Does it really matter

Religion doesn't matter

[evensteadiereddie]

You're being a bit selective, I'm not assuming anything but do hope your swearing at your kid's teacher was a one-off.
I asked if your lad thought you were heroic for weighing in or oafish. In other words, did he find your intervention humiliating or helpful ?

[Dazzler]

I asked if your lad thought you were heroic for weighing in or oafish. In other words, did he find your intervention humiliating or helpful ?

Can I phone my solicitor?

[evensteadiereddie]

Ah forget it, we'll draw our own conclusions.

[spadesclaret]

eddie, very much off topic, do I remember correctly that you are/were a teacher? If so, do you not think that children deserve more respect than being called 'kid'? Go back over your posts and see how many times you have used that word. Never once have you used 'boy', 'lad' or 'child'.

I'm not wanting to cause offence. It just happens to be one of my pet hates.

[Dazzler]

Ah forget it, we'll draw our own conclusions.

There you go again,assuming.

For crying out loud! For the final time it was an amicable and diplomatic chat until she started getting all snotty and raising her voice.
Teachers eh..they don't like it up 'em

[Dazzler]

eddie, very much off topic, do I remember correctly that you are/were a teacher?

[Dazzler]

Where's Jimbob when I want him?

Jimbob,If you're browsing do you remember Mrs Woods at towneley who took RE but more often than not succumb to our wishes and changed the subject to Sex Education?

[CrosspoolClarets]

I came onto this thread for the first time expecting to find anti-Islam rhetoric equally matched with liberal politically correct nonsense.

I haven’t been disappointed.

Religious Education in schools is fine as long as it appropriately matches the rough split of beliefs in the UK - roughly speaking that would be 1 lesson in 20 teaching Islam, the same in total for all other minority religions, and the remaining 18 lessons equally split, more or less, between Christianity and Atheism.

The latter is important because as pointed out by some posters, RE teaches important things about tolerance and mutual respect, but that also includes equal respect for those who do not believe. It thus links in with other subjects like science, history and geography, rather than standing off on it’s own.

Goes without saying that the RE teacher cannot be from a minority religion, it would be like someone teaching English in England when English is their second language. It also goes without saying that that the RE teacher cannot be so “devout” that they cannot see any merits in other religions nor atheism.

I would be very worried about anyone from both sides of the debate who has a significant problem with any of this post.

[ElectroClaret]

Somebody will.

[Dazzler]

Religious Education in schools is fine as long as it appropriately matches the rough split of beliefs in the UK - roughly speaking that would be 1 lesson in 20 teaching Islam, the same in total for all other minority religions, and the remaining 18 lessons equally split, more or less, between Christianity and Atheism.

That statement would appear to back up my angst over my lads school book content of 8 or 9 pages out of 12 on Islam.

Yippee! I'm vindicated

[bluelabrador16]

I think it would be healthier not to have "Holocaust" studies in the National Curriculum.

[evensteadiereddie]

It is certainly odd if the kid's book was only 12 pages long after a whole year and 8 or 9 of them concerned Islam.
I'm not sure that's the case, though. If it is, fair dos.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

I think it would be healthier not to have "Holocaust" studies in the National Curriculum.

I think today of all days is not the day to put the holocaust in quotation marks, your clearly indicating your belief about the holocaust. You should be ashamed.

We will remember them.

[ElectroClaret]

Take no notice, he's a bellend.

[Dazzler]

It is certainly odd if the kid's book was only 12 pages long after a whole year and 8 or 9 of them concerned Islam.
I'm not sure that's the case, though. If it is, fair dos

I swear by almighty....no I don't

Fair do's it is then

[evensteadiereddie]

Eh ?


Go on, I'll bite. Why do you say that, bluelab ?

[Greenmile]

Religious Education in schools is fine as long as it appropriately matches the rough split of beliefs in the UK - roughly speaking that would be 1 lesson in 20 teaching Islam, the same in total for all other minority religions, and the remaining 18 lessons equally split, more or less, between Christianity and Atheism....

How on earth would you manage to fill 9 lessons (or 9/20 of the curriculum if you prefer) teaching about atheism, or do you just mean extra science lessons?

[nil_desperandum]

.

Goes without saying that the RE teacher cannot be from a minority religion, it would be like someone teaching English in England when English is their second language. It also goes without saying that that the RE teacher cannot be so “devout” that they cannot see any merits in other religions nor atheism.
.

Can't agree with this at all.
To deal with the 2nd point first. English is the 2nd language of my daughter in law. She teaches English, and probably teaches it better than most "English" English teachers. Perhaps because she has learnt the language properly, (e.g. conjugations, declensions, participles etc.). There are a great many English teachers in the UK, whose first language is not English.
Similarly I can't see any problem with someone from a minority religion teaching RE. It's just a question of how well you know your topic, and more importantly how well you can deliver it.
It could be argued that as an RC I am from a minority religious background - well certainly in the UK, but that in no way prevents me from having sufficient knowledge of other religions, moral issues, philosophy etc. to be able to deliver a national curriculum RE lesson.
Some of the best RE teachers I have known, (incidentally) have been aetheists, but they have degrees in Theology, and they are passionate in their "interest" in the world religions.
In any case, how would you define a "minority" religion?
e.g. There are an estimated 2.2 billion Christians in the world, 1.6 billion Muslims, 1.15 billion Hindus, 376 million Buddhists, 30 million Sikhs, 14 million Jews, + many others with fewer adherents.
At what level does it become a "minority" religion?
(There are incidentally 1.1 billion atheists / agnostics).

[Dazzler]

I would be very worried about anyone from both sides of the debate who has a significant problem with any of this post.

Somebody will.

[martin_p]

Religious Education in schools is fine as long as it appropriately matches the rough split of beliefs in the UK - roughly speaking that would be 1 lesson in 20 teaching Islam, the same in total for all other minority religions, and the remaining 18 lessons equally split, more or less, between Christianity and Atheism.

What a bizarre notion! It’s called Religious Education, not Religion in the UK Education. Do you also think that Geopraphy should only teach places or geographical features we have in the UK? Just UK history? Biology only teach flora and fauna found in the UK (but mainly talk about insects because there’s far more of them)? Presumably just British authors to feature in English Lit?

[sleeperclaret]

I agree with martin_p and nil desperation. Learning about multiculturalism and religion would be rather pointless if you spent 80% off your time talking about your own culture/religion....

It's as if you assume people will remain within a 10 mile radius of their birthplace and never leave, and the things they grow up with will never change. The world would be a boring place were that to be true.

[Dazzler]

What some folk seem to be suggesting is that insufficient knowledge of Islam or any religion for that matter,may hinder their ambitions of...well let's say of becoming the next Alan Sugar or Richard Branson.
Or Brian Cox or Richard Dawkins.
I don't think they care too much about religion

[Jblonde002]

That statement would appear to back up my angst over my lads school book content of 8 or 9 pages out of 12 on Islam.

Yippee! I'm vindicated

Love this thread. Teachers are given a specification to teach to ensure that students receive a broad and balanced insight into a subject area. As a deputy Headteacher I feel pretty confident here. So, on the basis that this part of the subject was learning about Islam (next term - Buddhism) you’d rather expect whilst learning about Islam that the pages in your child’s book would be about Islam wouldn’t you? The teacher is literally doing their job - teaching. Unless you don’t want your child to learn about Islam at all, which, of course, is a completely different issue to unpick.

[nil_desperandum]

What some folk seem to be suggesting is that insufficient knowledge of Islam or any religion for that matter,may hinder their ambitions of...well let's say of becoming the next Alan Sugar or Richard Branson.
Or Brian Cox or Richard Dawkins.
I don't think they care too much about religion

Some very poor examples there.
Sugar is now an atheist, but has made a conversion from Judaism. He is very aware and proud of his Jewish family and roots however, and very sensitive to religious issues.
Brian Cox is very interested in religion and has been involved in many lectures and broadcasts on the topic. He is - in fact - one of the leading figures in the BHA, (British Humanist Association).
Dawkins is almost obsessed by religion, and is probably referenced in RE lessons almost as frequently as Jesus and Mohammed!

[evensteadiereddie]

Beautifully put, Jb.

[ClaretMoffitt]

I have to say though, Manchesters Christmas markets are looking particularly Christmassy this year. Doesn't it just fill your heart with a warm and fuzzy feeling?

[Dazzler]

I have to say I'm quite enjoying reading comments from folk who seem to be of the opinion that a good understanding of Islam is an important part of life.

Why would or should it have an adverse affect on anyone at any stage in life?
We should be able to work and socialise with muslims,as I do and my lad also,without the need of any understanding of Islam whatsoever.
Although-should go without saying,-we are not totally ignorant.
Having worked in social care,I am aquainted with the fact that in certain professions there are guidelines with regards to respecting their religion and culture.
Which I didn't have a problem with whatsover.
But for me,that is as far as it should go.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Although schools organize carefully sequenced units of work on other faiths, their approach to Christianity is often much less rigorous and more fragmented; work on specific aspects of Christianity, such as the life of Jesus or the Bible, is isolated from an investigation of the religion itself. (Ofsted, 2007, p81)

The above sums up why I argue that the majority of teaching should be Christianity (linking this teaching to Humanist thinking is something that as far as I am aware the Education Secretary(s) disagree with though.

Most religious pupils are Christians and thus need a detailed education into their own faith or it will lead to a lifetime of uncertainty concerning their own faith (e.g. should the deadly sins be avoided, why, and what relevance to they have today). As Ofsted say, there needs to be other religions taught too though.

[Dazzler]

Some very poor examples there.
Sugar is now an atheist, but has made a conversion from Judaism. He is very aware and proud of his Jewish family and roots however, and very sensitive to religious issues.
Brian Cox is very interested in religion and has been involved in many lectures and broadcasts on the topic. He is - in fact - one of the leading figures in the BHA, (British Humanist Association).
Dawkins is almost obsessed by religion, and is probably referenced in RE lessons almost as frequently as Jesus and Mohammed!

I suppose knowledge of religion for both Dawkins and Cox comes in handy for when in debates.
Dawkins more than Cox has greatly benefited financially due to his knowledge of religion.Mainly from his book"The God Delusion" which I am aquiring very soon.

Argh just spotted my error..I'd pressed the smilie next door.

[sleeperclaret]

Having worked in social care, I am aquainted with the fact that in certain professions there are guidelines with regards to respecting their religion and culture.
Which I didn't have a problem with whatsover.
But for me,that is as far as it should go.

But those guidelines don't tell you exactly how to respect their religion and culture or what you don't know about it out the understanding behind it. I expect you didn't object to learning about those other cultures whilst being paid for it?

[sleeperclaret]

And I'm not overly sure that what some people are going to use after school should dictate what people learn. I don't use Pythagoras' theorem every week, or analyse English literature, but I work with Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and Hindus every day. I appreciate that there may be people who don't but taking it out of the curriculum will disadvantage those that might in the future.

[Rileybobs]

I went to Bacup and Rawtenstall Grammar School in the late 90's and the senior teachers used to end morning assembly with a christian prayer which I always found odd. A minority of other religions such as muslims and JW's had to leave the room.