More post brexit referendum good news!!!!

kritichris · Post by **kritichris** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:29 am

kritichris wrote:37.5% of the electorate voted to leave.

edit.. damn, been sucked in again..doh!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:51 am

It might scare some people, but the post above pulled it apart quite nicely.

It didn't, but I'm currently watching the River Lune going absolutely mental outside our house, so I've got other things on my mind!

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:04 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:The reality

I really like this chart, just been staring at it.

I can't help but think everyone, perhaps even the FT, are missing the point, though. My own personal interpretation is that those regions most susceptible to large movements of labour voted to leave, and those regions with a higher percentage benefitting from large movements of labour (or want the mobility themselves) voted to remain. That is precisely what you would expect.

Separately, I'm not convinced it is right to draw the conclusion that those regions voting leave will suffer most from Brexit. Equally, I don't think it means lower earners will suffer most from Brexit either. They might do, but this will be determined by completely different factors.

If Brexit results in a free-market, unregulated, race-to-the-bottom free for all, then lower earners will suffer most from Brexit, without doubt. But this is not yet a given - if Labour get in, these same groups might actually benefit most from Brexit. As with everything, it's who is in charge that will determine who will win or lose over the next 10 years. The thing I don't understand is that most low-earning, ardent Brexiteers seem to also overwhelmingly vote Tory. This is a combination I really can't fathom at all. A Brexit/Tory combination will be wonderful for very rich people, and absolute hell for everybody else.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:07 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:It didn't, but I'm currently watching the River Lune going absolutely mental outside our house, so I've got other things on my mind!

A mental Lune . The worst kind. Almost as bad as a lefty one.

Political opinions, face palms and jokes about sperm count aside I hope the rain subsides for you.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:48 am

kritichris wrote:37.5% of the electorate voted to leave.

I'm sorry sunny jim but you don't get to count non voters for remain, it just doesn't work like that.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:46 am

I wonder what Dyche voted for?

I don’t know a great deal about brexit and I didn’t when I voted remain. I did some research but when it comes to the economy I struggle to concentrate. I mainly voted remain because a lot of scientists were coming out and telling us that was the way to go. I trusted them over Farage. However, Cameron was telling me o vote remain so it was very confusing.

I also voted remain because I thought/ still think that Brexit will have a negative effect on nhs recruitment

I wish Dyche would have told us all who he was voting for. I would have just gone with him

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:05 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:You're a vile creature aren't you.

Does your husband know you're like this on the internet?

Bet he met classier girls down on the docks in Liverpool

Does your husband know what you post on the Internet? My my you are very interested in me aren't you? Vile is something you know all about. Creature.

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:07 am

Btw I can't imagine any classy girls being interested in you especially after your visit to the dentist. He might not be able to rebuild you!

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:13 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:Nothing to do with being politically correct or coming from the left - you threaten to kick someone's teeth in and you're a dick, end of.
I'm surprised the mods allow you to post the crap you do.

You don't post much crap do you? Lefties can post what they like be as vicious and nasty as they like but actual mention of physical violence nooooooooo!!!! Corresponding with you all does amuse me though!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:14 am

Healeywoodclaret wrote:Does your husband know what you post on the Internet?

HAHA! I get it. You're saying he's gay. HAHA! Your humour is on a next level. HAHA! Mocking someone's sexuality in 2017. HAHA! You're so edgy! HAHA!

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:15 am

And the way all you lefties jump in and "stick the boot in" from behind your keyboards makes me laugh out loud!

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:18 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:You must feel completely inadequate to be so frustrated with your life that you'll go on the internet and get this angry.

Not getting angry just amusing myself Turtle my friend!
Mind you I've got a hell of a way to go to spend as much time on here as you do!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:18 am

Healeywoodclaret wrote:And the way all you lefties jump in and "stick the boot in" from behind your keyboards makes me laugh out loud!

HAHA! Lefties. HAHA! Sticking the boot in from behind keyboards. HAHA! You're so right. HAHA! We should talk about knocking peoples teeth out from behind our keyboards instead HAHA! Like real hard people. HAHA! I wish i was more like you.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:21 am

Inchy wrote:Cameron was telling me o vote remain so it was very confusing.

I also voted remain because I thought/ still think that Brexit will have a negative effect on nhs recruitment

I wish Dyche would have told us all who he was voting for. I would have just gone with him

I don’t think you were the only who was confused about voting the same way as Cameron and Osborne.

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:25 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:HAHA! Lefties. HAHA! Sticking the boot in from behind keyboards. HAHA! You're so right. HAHA! We should talk about knocking peoples teeth out from behind our keyboards instead HAHA! Like real hard people. HAHA! I wish i was more like you.

He seems to think he knows all about me so I was taking a stab in the Dark. He could be a lady boy for all I know!

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:25 am

What you doing up at this time anyway Turtle?

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:28 am

Or I could just make vicious and nasty comments excluding physical violence and join the Leftie Brigade.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:28 am

Cheers bfcboyo.

Peaked at about 6.5 metres, which is about 4 metres lower than when storm desmond did its thing.

Going to see what it looks like when you can actually see anything!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:42 am

kritichris wrote:37.5% of the electorate voted to leave.

52% of the overall vote though.

Not all of the electorate vote in a general election either, but the winner is based on the those who voted.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:53 am

Healeywoodclaret wrote:Or I could just make vicious and nasty comments excluding physical violence and join the Leftie Brigade.

What a lovely lady

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:02 am

Now there you all go again. How do you know I'm not gay and have a husband in a same sex relationship? There's a scenario for you all to consider!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:03 am

Healeywoodclaret wrote:Now there you all go again. How do you know I'm not gay and have a husband in a same sex relationship? There's a scenario for you all to consider!

Are you the effeminate one or the butch one?

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:04 am

Ha ha now that's sexist Sidney!

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:05 am

I guess I'm the butch one since I keep posting all these violent posts!

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:05 am

And I like football!

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:13 am

Beehole is busy now you won't heat from him for a while he is busy reading through all my previous posts to find out who I really am! A bit sexist really because what I think you are saying is females can't have an opinion. Very old fashioned view in 2017!

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:14 am

So if females allude to violence they are rough unclassy etc etc blah blah

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:14 am

Spiral wrote:Yeah, they wake up every single day feeling as though they are in a foreign country, buy they totes aren't xenophobes or owt.

I see the empathy for these disillusioned people is at it’s usual level on here. I still find it astonishing given the town we support is one of the prime examples.

One can feel like the country is no longer the one they were brought up in, or that they feel uncomfortable living in, without it having anything to do with race or migration. More than 50% of the population regularly say this in polls.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:22 am

Right, what the correlation between thinking that and the amount of old people in the country?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:38 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:One can feel like the country is no longer the one they were brought up in, or that they feel uncomfortable living in, without it having anything to do with race or migration.

Do you have a few examples you can share with the rest of the class?

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:42 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:One can feel like the country is no longer the one they were brought up in, or that they feel uncomfortable living in, without it having anything to do with race or migration.

certainly feels like its heading this way with all the right wing shite thats become more prominent.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:53 am

claretandy wrote:I'm sorry sunny jim but you don't get to count non voters for remain, it just doesn't work like that.

We could have a lengthy debate about this, but actually , as often as not,it does work like that. A simple majority of those voting for change in a referendum isn't usually enough. Very often it has to be (e.g.) 60% or 65% of those who actually vote, or some other mathematical formula. I could find you numerous examples of this.
However, the argument isn't who "won" the referendum - to use a rather unfortunate term, (since there are no winners), but whether the majority of the country are in favour of Brexit, and more specifically a "hard" brexit.
As was pointed out, only 37.5 of those eligible to vote supported leave. The rest either voted against, or genuinely couldn't make up their minds based on the information / misinformation available to them.
Then there were the 3 million who vote in other elections, who were not allowed to vote in the referendum, and a large number of ex-pats, (who perhaps will be most affected), who similarly were excluded.
When you then factor in that over 1.5 million young people have joined the electoral register since the referendum, and many more are now eligible, it's pretty clear that the majority of the country do not favour the type of "hard" brexit that the extreme right, (such as Dyson and Redwood) and some of the poorer communities are demanding.
How many of the 37.5 who voted leave expected us to leave the Single Market and Customs Union?. There were many who campaigned on the "Leave" platform who stated that leaving the EU did not mean leaving that we were leaving these.

Here's what was said during "leave" campaign by some of its leading figures:
Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market
Daniel Hannan MEP
Only a madman would actually leave the Market
Owen Paterson MP, Outspoken arch - Brexiteer

And when you remember that Norway are in the Single Market but not the EU:

Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing
Nigel Farage, Ukip leader
The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people
Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive
Even Arron Banks was suggesting a "soft" brexit, until after the referendum:
Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK
Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:55 am

nil_desperandum wrote:So exactly how will turning the UK into some kind of "off-shore tax haven" (with a corresponding reduction in public services), benefit poor communities?. Aligning themselves with the likes of Redwood, James Dyson and the other wealthy brexiteers, is not going to turn out well for them.
Added to this, they will now be deprived of all the EU money that went to the poorer regions of the UK.
For 2014-20, Greater Manchester was allocated €413.8 million, Liverpool City Region €220.9 million, Lancashire €265.2 million, Cumbria €91 million, and Cheshire and Warrington €141.6 million. (On average Burnley has benefited by £5 million /year)
This is in stark contrast to the funding cuts imposed on the region by central govt.

What is this "EU money" of which you speak!?

The UK is a NET CONTRIBUTOR to Brussels.

Remoaner actually celebrating our own money coming back to us after the EU has taken its cut !!!

When's the open top bus tour round the town with John Claude Drunker at the front!!!!??

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:02 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Imagine being such a coward that you have to block someone lest they point out inconvenient facts.

Here's what it looks like when you're not afraid of other people challenging your views

Just to inform you.

Being blocked is not some badge of honour, you clown.

To quote your far left hero, James Obrian.

And proving a stopped clock is right twice a day,

"Being blocked is the social media equivalent of being told you've got halitosis"

Chip Harrison · Post by **Chip Harrison** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:24 am

Ringo, please can you tell me when the £300 million plus per week will start to flow into the NHS?

Near me in Oldham, people were voting leave for one reason only, and that was immigration, and not just EU immigrants, but all immigration from every country. They thought leaving the EU would stop this.

Unbelievable really. However, they believed what they read and heard from social media and their mates. Do you think that is an informed and educated vote. The tories will give nothing to the north of England. At least the EU did.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:33 am

Chip Harrison wrote:The tories will give nothing to the north of England. At least the EU did.

If the tories give nothing to the north, then the north will vote them out of power at the next general election.
That's most people point.
The EU, giving the north of england a few fancy bus stations and pretty round abouts, are untouchable when it comes to a democratic vote. We had one chance in that respect and we took it

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:51 am

I'm glad I'm capable of looking at stuff rationally.

I never realised what a rare trait that was until UTC

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:54 am

Chip Harrison wrote:Ringo, please can you tell me when the £300 million plus per week will start to flow into the NHS?

Near me in Oldham, people were voting leave for one reason only, and that was immigration, and not just EU immigrants, but all immigration from every country. They thought leaving the EU would stop this.

Unbelievable really. However, they believed what they read and heard from social media and their mates. Do you think that is an informed and educated vote. The tories will give nothing to the north of England. At least the EU did.

The 350 million per week will be available for the democratically elected British government to spend how it likes. Once we've left.

And yet again. Another Remoaner who clearly feels he's privy to some sort of enlightened truth. A truth that, if he keeps stereotyping brexiteers with his tired old sneering, at their intelligence and belittling them cos they had the cheek to vote different to him. They will eventually capitulate to his hollier than thou loftyness and finally see the error of their "knuckle dragging" and "racist xenophobic" ways.

You lost get over it.

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:06 am

its amazing how large swathes of the public will accept being shat upon time and time again by the same bunch of self serving politicians as long as you appeal to their base instincts and fears and promise them an unrealistic solution and a few crumbs of comfort. It's called the big lie and has been used since the dawn of civilisation.

Essentially they say it says it's not our fault, and then blame the whites/blacks/jews/europeans/gays/paedos/muslims, (insert your own scapegoat).

The gullible and simple minded fall for it every time. I put Brexit in that category along with most of it's supporters.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:11 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:The 350 million per week will be available for the democratically elected British government to spend how it likes. Once we've left.
...
You lost get over it.

We're not only going to stop paying the EU when we leave but they're going to pay us £75 million per week. That's some impressive negotiating skill from David Davis, I'm looking at him in a whole new light.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:20 am

Society is in big trouble, isn't it?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:28 am

Cryssys wrote:its amazing how large swathes of the public will accept being shat upon time and time again by the same bunch of self serving politicians as long as you appeal to their base instincts and fears and promise them an unrealistic solution and a few crumbs of comfort. It's called the big lie and has been used since the dawn of civilisation.

Essentially they say it says it's not our fault, and then blame the whites/blacks/jews/europeans/gays/paedos/muslims, (insert your own scapegoat).

The gullible and simple minded fall for it every time. I put Brexit in that category along with most of it's supporters.

The "gullible" were the Remoaners who believed the following:

The stock market would crash.

The economy would crash.

Siemans would leave the UK.

Unemployment would rocket by 500,000 12 months following a vote to leave. Not the act of leaving, just voting to.

Employment would fall. Following a vote to leave. Not the act of leaving, just voting to.

House prices would crash. Following a vote to leave. Not the act of leaving, just voting to.

There would have to be an emergency budget the morning after a vote to leave to put taxes up.

Each family would be 4300 quid a year worse off.

Nissan would leave the UK.

Confidence in the UK economy would evaporate over night. Following a vote to leave. Not the act of leaving, just voting to.

Voting leave would be like putting a nuclear bomb under the uk economy.

It would lead to world war 3.

Unintelligent (but educated !

) remoaners fell fir the pack of lies spewed by operation B.S..

And don't forget. The likes of Ashdown, Clarke, Hesletine, Mandelson and Blair. Told us if we didn't join the single currency, " the UK economy will become a forgotten backwater" " the UK will be left floundering somewhere in the mid Atlantic" "British will become an isolated basket case off the mainland of Europe"

Lies lies lies

And Remoaners fell for them and continue to fall then. And simply thrash around hysterically screaming "little Englander" "racist" " nazi" "xenophobe" " "uneducated" " misinformed"

They clearly don't know the difference between education and intelligence.

Here's a clue-

George Osborne is highly educated. However.........

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:34 am

Only if you let people who want to destroy it go unchallenged.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:37 am

"The gullible and simple minded fall for it every time. I put Brexit in that category along with most of it's supporters."

Sums up the quality of debate around Brexit (both side guilty) - slag people off for being "simple minded" (alternatively you could use the much quoted "xenophobic" of course), they're bound to change their mind and see the light then.
There were 17,410,742 people who voted for Brexit, one and a quarter million more than voted against. Are most of 17.4 million simple minded ? (More likely they're just people with a different life experience/ differing priorities etc).

In Burnley, I believe the vote was 2/3 rds in favour of Brexit (28,854 v 14,462). If most of those were simple minded, it would mean at least a third of voters in the area were in that category. Not realistic is it?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:42 am

Just for balance as a non-Burnley resident, what percentage of Burnley voted BNP back in the day when they won all those seats?

And why don't they still vote for them?

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:45 am

Ringo, you are just like my old man who came home to tell you everytime
he won at bingo but never mentioned the hundreds of times he lost.

This is what Europe thinks of that smug ******* Davis, who doesn't give a flying f*ck about Britain he just wants us out. He wants this to end as a no deal so we don't pay our way but working class Britain will suffer.
http://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/1123 ... embassies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:48 am

Cryssys wrote:its amazing how large swathes of the public will accept being shat upon time and time again by the same bunch of self serving politicians as long as you appeal to their base instincts and fears and promise them an unrealistic solution and a few crumbs of comfort. It's called the big lie and has been used since the dawn of civilisation.

Essentially they say it says it's not our fault, and then blame the whites/blacks/jews/europeans/gays/paedos/muslims, (insert your own scapegoat).

The gullible and simple minded fall for it every time. I put Brexit in that category along with most of it's supporters.

Is this what you mean when you talk of "looking at stuff rationally" Lancaster?

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm glad I'm capable of looking at stuff rationally.

I never realised what a rare trait that was until UTC

Try and answer as honestly as you can, because even though his comment is ridiculous, he does share your views, or so it seems

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:50 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:What is this "EU money" of which you speak!?

The UK is a NET CONTRIBUTOR to Brussels.

Remoaner actually celebrating our own money coming back to us after the EU has taken its cut !!!

You are either deliberately misunderstanding my point or you still don't get it.
Yes - we are a net contributor, but your 350 million is, as you know, a distortion of the facts because 100 million of that NEVER goes out of the treasury, (due to the rebate that Thatcher negotiated).
Of that remaining 250 million / week, (equating to 13 billion / year), almost 5 billion comes back to the UK. Net cost is therefore 8.6 billion per annum, or 156 million / week.
So: three points
1. If we didn't send the 5 billion to the EU, (the 5 billion that comes back to us and in general goes to supporting the poorer regions / communities), where do you think it would go? Given central government's track record, do you really think that the North West would get it's fair share. If you do then, I would prepare for a shock. It's really just re-distribution of funds from Central Govt to the regions.
2.How much of the remaining 156 million / week do you think will be left over once we have to pay for all the things that are currently part of the EU budget, and will be required - as is acknowledged by the govt. - post brexit.
3. What will it cost the economy if we don't secure a free trade deal with the EU, and in order to secure this deal how much do you think it will cost us per year for access to the Single Market etc?. (There might be a clue if you look at what Norway pay).
350 / week for the NHS doesn't seem v likely does it?

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:53 am

Ringo,

Both sides lied through there teeth and used fear to try and motivate people to support them. Unfortunately that seems to have become the standard tactic in most British elections that I can remember (with the possible exception of the most recent where the Labour party actually pushed its own policies unlike the Tories who only seemed interested in slagging of JC and predicting Armageddon in the form totalitarian communist state if he was elected).

Back to the point, do you really believe the promises that Brexiters made. Do you genuinely believe that the average person in the UK will be better off after Brexit and in what way? The only reason the many Tories and businessmen wanted out of the EU is because they recognise that it is left leaning and holds back their monetary policies, aka make as much money as you can and keep it to yourself.

Any monies saved as a result of Brexit will not benefit the average person or the NHS/schools etc. it will be used to line the pockets of the rich and shareholders. History teaches us this.

Sure, you may feel better for a while but in reality what will you actually get? Do you expect to see your standard of living rise, more houses to be built, improvements in NHS services , better schools? If you do then you really have fallen for the big lie.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:55 am

As I said Damo, its a rare trait on here.

And you will understand that looking at it RATIONALLY, what he is saying in his first paragraph is actually rational and based on facts.

And so is the second, though I agree that its too inflammatory, but it is what has happened before.

Its his opinion that that leads to Brexit. I don't think its all down to that, as I get the view that a lot of people felt that they had nothing to lose (but they clearly did, but they didn't see it like that)