Increasing Home support

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:10 pm

As I’ve posted on another thread ( Home tickets selling well) I thought this topic may warrant its own thread.

Is it not getting to the stage when the club should be thinking of offering 1500 tickets to away team on a sale or return basis or 2400(ish) and they pay for all regardless of whether they sell them. Shift the smaller (1500) away support to the Harry Potts Way side of the Cricket Field Stand and sell the other (800-900) seats, which would have an excellent view as they would be directly behind the goal and therefore no pillars to obstruct the view, to Burnley supporters. Most other clubs do this so why couldn’t ours on a match by match basis.
We are selling between 18,000 and 18,500 Home tickets, the home capacity 19,000 ish, but many of the tickets that are left are single seats restricted view or on the front rows of the two big stands and therefore not the best view or open to the elements which may put some supporters off attending.
I think it’s acknowledged by nearly all supporters and the club that Home fans in the Cricket Field Stand has been a resounding success so maybe it’s time to get a few more hundred in there.

Attendances and away support at Burnley so far this season
West Brom.......19,619....1,317
Palace............18,862....883
Huddersfield.....20,757....2,471
West Ham.........20,945....2,410
Newcastle.........21,031....2,458
Swansea...........18,895.....680
Arsenal....sold out
Our last 6 home matches are
Southampton
Everton
Chelsea
Leicester
Brighton
Bournemouth
With the exception of Chelsea and Everton I’d offer tickets as I mention above and get as many Clarets into the ground as possible..
Just a thought
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mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:15 pm

Decent idea Vince. Leicester normally sell out tho so perhaps only Brighton, Bournemouth and Saints? Can't see it being allowed though, and can't see logistically how you would get away fans in and out next to Longside, would imagine it would be seen too risky.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:16 pm

Vince, we have season ticket holders in there. We have no mechanism agreed for such a scenario right now. I won’t happen.

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:23 pm

The away supporters would still come in the turnstiles as they do now. NO season ticket holders would be required to move anywhere. The segregation would simply be move towards Harry Potts Way the extra supporters would be Burnley supporters and therefore enter through the turnstiles from the main car park.
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mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:25 pm

Segregation in the concourse would prevent this mate.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:33 pm

Perhaps something to think a out next season. What's the minimum we have to offer? 3,000 or 15%?

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:33 pm

mybloodisclaret wrote:Segregation in the concourse would prevent this mate.

Why would it?
It didn’t against Lincoln last year.
If the club were going to do it on a regular basis another big metal door could be installed in the concourse to allow the next exit from the Stand (directly behind the goal) to be used by Home supporters for entry and exit purposes. There are plenty of grounds that have this variable method for Home and away support. It’s not hard to do if you stop looking for reasons not to.
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Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:41 pm

10% of ground capacity or 3000 if the capacity is above 30,000. Many clubs will offer 3,000 but the away club must play for all of them even if they are not sold, so they offer 1,500 (ish) on sale or return. The away club makes the decision on the allocation taken.
We could offer the 2,400(ish) we offer now to be paid for if not sold, or 1,500 on sale or return therefore releasing around 800-900 tickets for Burnley fans.
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Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:46 pm

When the home ends are regularly rammed then we can start talking about more home fans coming in or extending the capacity.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:51 pm

Just a quick glance down the M65 should tell us all we need to know about what level fanbases actually are.

I'm under no illusions that we are going to need more space in the home ends (unless this remarkable manager we have keeps doing even more remarkable things, and even then, the excitement of the prem being the norm will fade for some, just like it did down the road)

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:15 am

The idea is not to get too big for our boots. Could we fill 30,000 home seats v Liverpool at Xmas? Probably. Do we need 30,000 home seats? Definitely not.

If we have 20,000 home seats that covers us for 90% of scenarios, so a slight increase for home and away fans and that’s it. I’d rather we sort the back of the Bob Lord out. It’s a blooming mess.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:35 am

haha, we are in there with THE most fickle fans in the land, within the blink of an eye BURNLEY fans will disappear as if nothing ever happened.

Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:46 am

Until we regularly have home fans being unable to attend due to lack of capacity then I don't think there is any requirement. Generally all those who have wanted a ticket for the home ends have managed to get one in each of the last 3 prem seasons.
Let's focus on improving what we already have.

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:23 am

Transpennine wrote:Until we regularly have home fans being unable to attend due to lack of capacity then I don't think there is any requirement. Generally all those who have wanted a ticket for the home ends have managed to get one in each of the last 3 prem seasons.
Let's focus on improving what we already have.

I'm not advocating spending millions of pounds on a new stand. I'm suggesting how we can increase the home capacity with little investment, allowing extra supporters the chance to attend. How do we know if people don't attend because rhe tickets they are offered are singles restricted view or seats that may be subject to inclement weather. Our support may dwindle in the future but right now should the club not look to maximise the home support?
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Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:32 am

Vince Fontaine wrote:I'm not advocating spending millions of pounds on a new stand. I'm suggesting how we can increase the home capacity with little investment, allowing extra supporters the chance to attend. How do we know if people don't attend because rhe tickets they are offered are singles restricted view or seats that may be subject to inclement weather. Our support may dwindle in the future but right now should the club not look to maximise the home support?
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That's fair enough. I just don't think there is a load/any extra demand out there to justify it. Apart from the big 4-5 games there are always plenty of seats available until kick off.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:28 am

Vince Fontaine wrote:I'm not advocating spending millions of pounds on a new stand. I'm suggesting how we can increase the home capacity with little investment, allowing extra supporters the chance to attend. How do we know if people don't attend because rhe tickets they are offered are singles restricted view or seats that may be subject to inclement weather. Our support may dwindle in the future but right now should the club not look to maximise the home support?
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Vince, you are right about the need for extra home fans capacity. I've read the above and a lot of posters say no extra capacity required. I guess most of them think that all the Burnley fans come from Burnley and a few miles around. Yes, of course, that's the base of our support. But, take a look at how many Burnley fans were at Bournemouth on Wednesday night - and how many of these live in the south. There are a few who regularly make the long journey up to t'Turf, but there are many more who can't make that journey often - and, sometimes they won't be making the journey because they don't think they can get the tickets they need/want.

So, yes, give Southampton and Bournemouth and Brighton the chance to buy the full away fan capacity - but, if they don't take it up, let's make space for some more Burnley fans. I've seen us win at Soton and Bournemouth already and I've got my tickets for Brighton. There's two (and maybe three - one-game-at-a-time) chances to watch Burnley "do the double" over other Premier League clubs this season. Maybe I might also try and get up for Chelsea and Spurs and some other games - though I would expect that those teams will sell out their full allocation.

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RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:38 am

I think what Vince is saying is excellent. Offer better seats to home supporters whenever we can. Okay the singles will be left empty and maybe the front rows of the other stands. Also the overall attendance figure may not increase but as a customer relations exercise it makes perfect sense.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:52 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:Perhaps something to think a out next season. What's the minimum we have to offer? 3,000 or 15%?

The minimum is 3,000 or 10% if ground holds under 30,000. We have to offer the away team 2,200 plus and currently it is 2,400 based on the cricket field end set up.

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:18 pm

Looking at our remaining home matches that tickets have yet to go on sale for
February
Tickets released 11th December
3rd Man City
24th Southampton
March
Tickets released 29th January
3rd Everton
17th Chelsea
April
Tickets released 26th February
14th Leicester
28th Brighton
May
Tickets released 9th April
13th Bournemouth

There are 4 matches I think should be considered
Southampton
Leicester
Brighton and
Bournemouth
I've also looked at the stand and the number of seats. We could offer 1570 with the sterile area created by covering 280 seats by tarpaulin, this would mean 840 extra seats for Burnley supporters sold in a certain order. The front block 144 and the two blocks nearest existing Burnley supporters each of 221 then the other front block 144 leaving the two final part blocks if required of 80 and 30.
These supporters would exit via exit B in the stand turning right at the bottom of the steps and out of the existing Burnley supporters exit.
A big metal gate/door would have to be installed at the left hand side of the exit steps but the cost of this should not be that expensive.

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tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:45 pm

Bournemouth and Southampton you pretty much all mix n mingle on exiting..no need for erecting big gates IMO .

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:18 pm

ClaretTony wrote:The minimum is 3,000 or 10% if ground holds under 30,000. We have to offer the away team 2,200 plus and currently it is 2,400 based on the cricket field end set up.

I think if we’d offered Stoke 1500 on sale or return or 2400 to be paid for if unsold they would have taken the 1500 option. I also think that with 800 seats available in the Cricket Field Stand on Tuesday night, in that weather, we would have sold quiet a few.
Surely the costs are negligible In adapting the Stand and would be paid for with the extra revenue from one match.

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ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:25 pm

Vince Fontaine wrote:Surely the costs are negligible In adapting the Stand and would be paid for with the extra revenue from one match.

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I don't think it is a matter of cost to be honest. The club had a battle to get home fans in that stand in the first place and I don't think they'd get away with increasing the numbers in there.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:29 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:haha, we are in there with THE most fickle fans in the land, within the blink of an eye BURNLEY fans will disappear as if nothing ever happened.

The most fickle fans in the land?

You should look further down the road, Rovers lot couldn't wait to stop going.

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:53 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I don't think it is a matter of cost to be honest. The club had a battle to get home fans in that stand in the first place and I don't think they'd get away with increasing the numbers in there.

Why?
It would be good business, an increase in match day revenue and more Clarets in there would mean more support for the team.
I don’t believe segregation would be an issue, no extra stewards would be needed, the cost of a new gate/doors underneath the stand would be covered by the first time we did this. I can only see positives.

Who are they “getting away with it” from?

If there was ever a time to be positive it’s now.

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Bfc · Post by **Bfc** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:40 am

I certainly like the idea of increasing the home support in the Cricket Field stand, when it's unlikely the away allocation and it allows it. It would be helpful for someone from the club to respond to the pros and cons of why this suggestion should not be taken seriously.
As we are aware of the World interest in the progress of the team and club, I think we're building up a fan base globally. We've no way of knowing how many new supporters are now taking Burnley as their team and would want to start coming to games. There will be a good few from Eire and other other European Countries who've supporters follow English teams. Most people going to watch a game like to go along with a friend and not being able to get 2 seats together may be putting them off attending. Offering more seats when possible in the CF stand would encourage them, plus there's the increased revenue what would be generated from other sources for the club to take into account, for this season and future seasons.
CT is it something you could raise with the club?.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:02 am

I agree bfc. We are not in a position to be speculative with regards to future revenues from gate receipts. We can’t cast the net further afield, or do mega cheap student offers etc because we don’t have the spare capacity. When you sell out 98% of your available home capacity on average, as we did last season, that leaves you nothing really to speculate with.

This view of looking at it in 5 years time is nonsense. We are currently the number 1 Lancashire (post 1974) Club, and that won’t remain the same forever. Nobody is advocating a 30,000+ white elephant like Rovers did, but a little more plus a renovation would help.

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:06 am

Are we still allowed to do promotions ie a reduction in ticket prices for league games? I do like the idea of getting as many clarets inside the game on match day, though we do seem to be at a plateau of 19-20k. I was thinking for some of what you may call a cat a game knocking prices down to a £10 and £5? We all know ticket receipts counts for little in the grand scheme of prem millions, so we should pack it as far as possible.
Queue ST holders demanding they should get something of prices are reduced....

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:15 am

Personally I think Turf Moor should be 25k not 21k, supported by a marketing plan to increase support from Airedale / Calderdale etc.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:18 am

tim_noone wrote:Bournemouth and Southampton you pretty much all mix n mingle on exiting..no need for erecting big gates IMO .

Southampton, really - has this match seen plenty of incidents in recent years including a hit and run on Belvedere Rd from a Saints "fan"

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:21 am

Chester Perry wrote:Southampton, really - has this match seen plenty of incidents in recent years including a hit and run on Belvedere Rd from a Saints "fan"

Forgot about that. He got done with it didn't he?

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:27 am

Could we not do something similar for a few seasons? Take advantage of the wider possible catchment area and maybe make fans for life, who then bring their kids?

Halifax, Rochdale, Keighley, Blackburn

etc.

Bfc · Post by **Bfc** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:44 am

Further to my post above. I think the weather on a match day has a big impact on attendances. There are probably a good number of people who stay at home, because they aren't prepared to sit in the lower JH and JM seats, where they're likely to get cold and wet (as seen recently) through watching a game and I fully understand that. If for some games the CF stand had more home seats available, these people would be encouraged to attend the game, knowing they're watching it while staying dry.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:43 pm

Vince Fontaine wrote:Why?
It would be good business, an increase in match day revenue and more Clarets in there would mean more support for the team.
I don’t believe segregation would be an issue, no extra stewards would be needed, the cost of a new gate/doors underneath the stand would be covered by the first time we did this. I can only see positives.

Who are they “getting away with it” from?

If there was ever a time to be positive it’s now.

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Might be good business but didn't they have a real battle to get home fans in there with the safety group and the police? Eventually permitted to do it but it is with a fixed maximum in there, with fixed divide so to do what you want to do just isn't possible.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:02 pm

We really need a larger version of this Roots Hall stand, to replace the Cricket Field Stand.
Safe enough for the lower tier not to be bricked, p1ssed on or gobbed on.

It won't happen but it is a solution to the police obsession with having visiting supporters in that stand.

: rootshall7.jpg (221.06 KiB) Viewed 4958 times

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:14 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Might be good business but didn't they have a real battle to get home fans in there with the safety group and the police? Eventually permitted to do it but it is with a fixed maximum in there, with fixed divide so to do what you want to do just isn't possible.

Everything is possible.
If the club wanted this to happen it would. There would be no difference if there were 2300 of 1500 clarets are in there.
One of the excuses that Burnley fans shouldn't go in there was that lancs police didn't want opposing fans In the same stand. The problem was lancs police were allowing it at Preston and blackburrn.
If the will was there there are no arguments not to allow it.
Saying it is impossible is just not true nor is it a reasoned well thought out argument.
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Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:21 pm

Claretforever wrote:Could we not do something similar for a few seasons? Take advantage of the wider possible catchment area and maybe make fans for life, who then bring their kids?

Halifax, Rochdale, Keighley, Blackburn etc.

I'm fairly certain that Brighton only do this due to there being very limited parking provision for fans anywhere near to their ground.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:52 pm

It would be misused by folk using the train to go shopping in Burnley!

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:11 pm

IanMcL wrote:It would be misused by folk using the train to go shopping in Burnley!

Ian, if you read it, it’s only available for people with a valid match ticket.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Claretforever wrote:Ian, if you read it, it’s only available for people with a valid match ticket.

It was a joke.....

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:33 pm

Vince Fontaine wrote:Everything is possible.
If the club wanted this to happen it would. There would be no difference if there were 2300 of 1500 clarets are in there.

If that's what you want to think then fine, but it won't be happening because there are other authorities that would not want it and would not give the club permission whether the club wanted to do it or not.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:43 pm

The first thing to achieve is a regular decent waiting list. Then the club should enact the system they use for the Royal Albert Hall for their 'members'. The member gets their money for their seat, which they cannot use. The club sell at full price and both make money as well as a happy fan getting to see the live action.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:10 pm

piston broke wrote:We really need a larger version of this Roots Hall stand, to replace the Cricket Field Stand.
Safe enough for the lower tier not to be bricked, p1ssed on or gobbed on.

It won't happen but it is a solution to the police obsession with having visiting supporters in that stand.

rootshall7.jpg

Behave yourself. Leave the CF stand alone.

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:40 pm

ClaretTony wrote:If that's what you want to think then fine, but it won't be happening because there are other authorities that would not want it and would not give the club permission whether the club wanted to do it or not.

Which authorities are these?
Club?
Police?
Fire service?
Local authorities?
Just wondering who the club has to seek permission off and why any of them would oppose this?
If the question has been asked and the response was negative then fine, but I suspect the question hasn't been asked.
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tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:51 pm

Everything is possible in construction and engineering . Everything.

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Thu May 10, 2018 7:30 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:When the home ends are regularly rammed then we can start talking about more home fans coming in or extending the capacity.

A home sell out for Bournemouth and I would suspect a half empty away end. Surely this needs to be looked into for next season??
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piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Thu May 10, 2018 7:39 pm

Vince Fontaine wrote:A home sell out for Bournemouth and I would suspect a half empty away end. Surely this needs to be looked into for next season??
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Agreed. A more flexible solution to the separation would be a start but I appreciate there are limits. What with under stand facilities and emergency evacuation.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Thu May 10, 2018 8:13 pm

Is there a minimum we must offer away fans in terms of allocation?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu May 10, 2018 8:19 pm

Isn't the Bournemouth a see-out only because it's the last game of the season?

What would ticket sales be likes on a Tuesday night in the middle of Feb?

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu May 10, 2018 8:21 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:Is there a minimum we must offer away fans in terms of allocation?

Yes near enough the amount we do now.

We could do what most clubs do and offer no sale no return after the initial 1,000, however our fans can't use the rest anyway, so we may as Well let them sell right up to the last minute to increase the chances of more coming, and maximises the potential money brought in.

We need 25k. Not just for the extra few thousand home fans, but also to offer decent seats together, and up to date facilities. Most of the ground is awful facility wise.

Vince Fontaine · Post by **Vince Fontaine** » Thu May 10, 2018 9:17 pm

What other clubs do is offer 3000 ( or 10% of capacity) to be paid for whether sold or not or a reduced allocation on sale or return. We could offer 1500 ish on sale or return or the 2400 ish where the away club pay for the lot whether sold or not. If the lower allocation is taken we can the put approx 800 tickets on sale to Burnley fans. If the full allocation is taken then the away club pays for ALL the empty seats in the away end.
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