UK Car Industry Investment Plummets Due To Brexit

[Pstotto]

Let it die and a better industry rise from the skilled workforce. £1 billion spent on the Nissan Duke? One of the most stupid car designs ever to reach production.

[Sidney1st]

Ford UK sales down 16% year on year to november

Vauxhall sales down 35% over the same period.

Vauxhall's drop in sales is already leading to job losses
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... stra-falls

How many Fords are made in the UK?
I'll give you a hint, a big fat ZERO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Initially you were banging on about vehicles made in the UK, but Ford stopped doing that years ago, I believe we've discussed this before when I pointed out Transit production was switched to Turkey during Labour's reign.

Vauxhall - now owned by PSA and they left the UK over a decade ago, again during Labour's reign.
Out of interest do you know if Vauxhall are making a Hybrid model?
We've also had discussions about Hybrids, but I think you did your usual trick of ignoring what was said.

[UpTheBeehole]

Vauxhall - now owned by PSA and they left the UK over a decade ago, again during Labour's reign.

How did they leave the UK when they've got a factory in Ellesmere Port?

[UpTheBeehole]

How many Fords are made in the UK?
I'll give you a hint, a big fat ZERO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ford have four sites in the UK

[Sidney1st]

How did they leave the UK when they've got a factory in Ellesmere Port?

PSA left the UK, that's what I wrote.

Vauxhall will probably wander off too at some point, I wouldn't be surprised because PSA don't want to build cars over here.
My apologies for not making that clearer for you.

[Sidney1st]

Ford have four sites in the UK

How many make cars or vans?

A big fat ZERO.
They make engines and other parts, but no vehicles, I even linked the list of Ford plants around the world and what they make to help you out....

Transit production left Southampton and went to Turkey where it's cheaper years ago, during Labour's reign and well before Brexit.
They stopped making cars well before that and due to the sale of Land Rover to Tata they make no cars here in the UK.

Ready to give up yet?

As I've said before, we actually make very few cars in the UK if you look at the overall picture worldwide, but Car manufacturing plants are always coming and going, it's hardly breaking news.

[UpTheBeehole]

I wouldn't be surprised because PSA don't want to build cars over here..

AND THAT'S THE ENTIRE CRUX OF THE THREAD, ENTITLED "UK CAR INDUSTRY INVESTMENT PLUMMETS DUE TO BREXIT".

[UpTheBeehole]

How many make cars or vans?

A big fat ZERO.
They make engines and other parts, but no vehicles, I even linked the list of Ford plants around the world and what they make to help you out....

Transit production left Southampton and went to Turkey where it's cheaper years ago, during Labour's reign and well before Brexit.
They stopped making cars well before that and due to the sale of Land Rover to Tata they make no cars here in the UK.

Ready to give up yet?

As I've said before, we actually make very few cars in the UK if you look at the overall picture worldwide, but Car manufacturing plants are always coming and going, it's hardly breaking news.

The thread is about the car INDUSTRY, not just cars.

[Sidney1st]

AND THAT'S THE ENTIRE CRUX OF THE THREAD, ENTITLED "UK CAR INDUSTRY INVESTMENT PLUMMETS DUE TO BREXIT".

You're a moron aren't you??

PSA left the UK over a decade ago when it closed it's coventry plant.
The automotive industry is always changing in the UK, plants come and go, manufacturers rise and fall, it's just a simple fact of life.

Investment drops or rises based on a variety of factors, but you're not interested in learning about them, you just harp on thinking you know what you're talking about when actually you've got no idea.

Go away and take some time to research the subject matter...

[Sidney1st]

The thread is about the car INDUSTRY, not just cars.

I know that, but you were the one bleating about UK PRODUCED cars originally.

I happen to know for a FACT that Ford are struggling to produce enough engines and they cannot supply their Puma/Duratorq engine to anyone outside of Ford at this moment in time.
They're that busy.

When you know a bit more about this industry you'll see it isn't as big an issue as you're trying to make it.

[mikeS]

Maybe post Brexit when all the european car makers have packed up and left, we'll get back to the golden years of British car making and resurrect those fine British cars such as the Austin Allegro (had to be in green-beige) the well-loved Austin Maxi, not forgetting the Morris Marina, the Morris iTal and not forgetting their well loved optional extras - the black vynil roof and go faster stripes. Rust was never a problem with these fine specimens, and it was so calming to drive while listening to the gentle sound of water sloshing about in the door panels when it rained.

[dsr]

Maybe post Brexit when all the european car makers have packed up and left, we'll get back to the golden years of British car making and resurrect those fine British cars such as the Austin Allegro (had to be in green-beige) the well-loved Austin Maxi, not forgetting the Morris Marina, the Morris iTal and not forgetting their well loved optional extras - the black vynil roof and go faster stripes. Rust was never a problem with these fine specimens, and it was so calming to drive while listening to the gentle sound of water sloshing about in the door panels when it rained.

I doubt the European car manufacturers would decide not to sell cars in the UK just because of Brexit. Few manufacturers have such high minded political ideals.

They might be more likely to put factories in the UK to avoid tariffs, of course. But that's a different issue, and could even be construed by Brexit supporters as good news.

[Sidney1st]

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/01/08/ast ... to00000015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Palmer has said the brand plans to convert its entire six-car lineup to hybrid powertrains by the middle of the next decade, with 25 percent of its vehicles fully electric by the end of the 2020s."

Future is looking fairly normal at Aston Martin, un-surprisingly....

[UpTheBeehole]

Car dealers give their thoughts on what they perceive to be the biggest opportunities and threats to the industry...

[Sidney1st]

Much of a muchness then going off that list...

[UpTheBeehole]

I think you could quite reasonably lump the 17% of economic downturn in with the 21% of Brexit, bearing in mind one caused the other. The changing consumer behaviour is linked to the economic downturn, as people stop buying new cars because everything else is costing more and they haven't had pay rises for a couple of years. Linked to this, interest rates are going up.

All these linked reasons add up to 49%, which is pretty significant.

It's definitely more significant to your previously-stated main reason for the slump, which is the outlook for diesel cars. Interestingly, that only comes to 2%.

Funny that.

[elwaclaret]

The car industry has been aoolowed to take the p!ss out of the tax paying public and every govrnment since the mid 70's. It has nothing to do with Brexit. Standard tactic for years every time a new model is due out is to threaten jobs and get grants.

[Sidney1st]

I didn't state is was the main reason, which is further proof you don't pay attention in class...maybe we need to move you from the back seats to the front?

It's a contributing factor, which has been repeated time and again over the course of the last year, it isn't the main factor.

I know you're desperate for Brexit to all go wrong so you can enter the smug zone, but UK based manufacturers of both vehicles & parts are just getting on with it regardless of Brexit.
JLR has posted recently that it's sales have increased across the brand.
They're also lining up new models, especially Hybrid and full electric, same as other manufacturers.

Once uncertainty over diesels etc settles down things will be fine.

[UpTheBeehole]

https://www.ft.com/content/c04fb1ce-c56 ... 2b2cb39656

"Higher taxes will be placed on new diesel vehicles in the UK in this month’s Budget, as the government tries to nudge drivers towards less polluting alternatives."

This might help explain why car sales have slowed down in the UK....

Not that I know what I'm talking about of course

[Sidney1st]

Where did I say it was the main reason?

Oh wait, I didn't, want to try again?

[Damo]

Transit production left Southampton and went to Turkey where it's cheaper years ago, during Labour's reign and well before Brexit.

With the help of a 60 billion pound, interest free loan from the EU.
But Yeah, it's Brexits fault

[Sidney1st]

I didn't know they got a loan to help them move, that's interesting to know.

Don't mention it though, upthebeehole and his mates won't believe you whilst they're trying to 'school' me...

[Damo]

I didn't know they got a loan to help them move, that's interesting to know.

Don't mention it though, upthebeehole and his mates won't believe you whilst they're trying to 'school' me...

Upthebeehole is an idiot

[aggi]

The loan wasn't interest free. It was also during the Tories' time in charge (not that it makes much difference either way).

There was a loan and it may have hastened the moving away of the transit production from Southampton to Turkey but given that at the time of the loan the Turkey plant was already producing 4 or 5 times the volume of transits that Southampton was producing the writing was on the wall.

[Sidney1st]

So what we're saying is the car industry is in a constant state of flux with manufacturing plants coming and going, which would suggest it's nothing to do with Brexit?

Yet with all this evidence to hand some people still want to blame Brexit....

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... eandhealth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[basil6345789]

Time to ramp down the car industry/ownership - gridlock on the roads wherever you go
Country is over-populated, services can't cope; time to reduce economic growth, reduce the population and return to a more sedate, civilised lifestyle.

[Blackrod]

Car dealers give their thoughts on what they perceive to be the biggest opportunities and threats to the industry...

79% think the main concern is not Brexit.

[yTib]

79% think the main concern is not Brexit.

glib. glad i'm out of automotive.

[Judehamish]

I deliver primarily new cars for a living (usually 10 or 11 at a time) and things are very quiet at the moment, the last peak period was also very quiet.

The government have made things difficult and could have waited until brexit was done and dusted before making statements regarding the future of diesel.

I particularly welcome Len McCluskey's comments today regarding PSA.

[Sidney1st]

Is that the comment about the union ensuring that car sales will be stopped If they close their plant?

Someone should remind him about Coventry before he looks really stupid.

[Stayingup]

Funny Brexit hasn't happened yet. I reckon the drop is partly due to Gove and governments statements and threats about diesel cars.

[Sidney1st]

That opinion is invalid, upthebeehole will be along shortly to correct you

[Sidney1st]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... f-mobility" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Uh oh, Government investment deal announced ....

The future is bright.

[Sidney1st]

Mike Hawes, SMMT Chief Executive:

We welcome today’s automotive sector deal which will help this vital UK industry meet some of the many global challenges it faces. The deal strengthens our long-standing partnership with government, with a boost to supply chain competitiveness and investment, matched by industry, to keep the UK at the forefront of electric, connected and autonomous vehicles.

In its implementation, the deal must help the industry build on our success and seize the opportunities presented by such technological innovations. Given current uncertainties, it must also be complemented by ongoing efforts to maintain the right conditions for growth.

Oh look it's this bloke again.

[barba]

More welcome news

'Ford picks Britain to build diesel engines for best-selling US pickups'

http://www.cityam.com/278363/ford-picks ... ing-us/amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[UpTheBeehole]

Funny Brexit hasn't happened yet. I reckon the drop is partly due to Gove and governments statements and threats about diesel cars.

I've literally provided you with a table showing what the motor industry is concerned about. Only 2% said threats about diesel.

[Sidney1st]

I've literally provided you with a table showing what the motor industry is concerned about. Only 2% said threats about diesel.

It's the consumers that are more concerned about the Diesel thing though, I've repeatedly said that on here....

[UpTheBeehole]

It's the consumers that are more concerned about the Diesel thing though, I've repeatedly said that on here....

They're not though are they, they're just buying petrol cars or hybrids.

Diesel sales fell astronomically, but overall car sales didn't fall by the same amount,. Consumers are just buying petrol or hybrid cars instead, just in lower numbers.

[Sidney1st]

Again, consumers are possible waiting for changes to the cars available on the market etc, but you aren't really interested in listening.

Same when it's been pointed out that Car manufacturers come and go regularly from the UK and it isn't for Brexit reasons.

You've decided it's Brexit and that's all that matters to you, so it's pretty much a pointless discussion with someone like you.

[UpTheBeehole]

Again, consumers are possible waiting for changes to the cars available on the market etc, but you aren't really interested in listening.

Same when it's been pointed out that Car manufacturers come and go regularly from the UK and it isn't for Brexit reasons.

You've decided it's Brexit and that's all that matters to you, so it's pretty much a pointless discussion with someone like you.

Whereas you've decided it's not brexit and have your fingers in your ears saying lalala when the bosses of the industry in which you work are saying it is Brexit.

[Sidney1st]

Whereas you've decided it's not brexit and have your fingers in your ears saying lalala when the bosses of the industry in which you work are saying it is Brexit.

Ah that would be the industry where I've proven that it's always changing, with companies coming and going from the UK etc...

We can't be on about the same one can we?

You don't know much about this industry, you just copy and paste stuff, then try to preach to people who work within it....
Even other people on this forum who are in this industry have told you it isn't all doom and gloom but you're so desperate for Brexit to be a disaster you aren't interested.

[UpTheBeehole]

Ah that would be the industry where I've proven that it's always changing, with companies coming and going from the UK etc...

We can't be on about the same one can we?

You don't know much about this industry, you just copy and paste stuff, then try to preach to people who work within it....
Even other people on this forum who are in this industry have told you it isn't all doom and gloom but you're so desperate for Brexit to be a disaster you aren't interested.

When I copy and paste stuff, I'm copying and pasting stuff from the very top of your industry.

They're not the thoughts of someone working in the spares department of a provincial dealer.

[Sidney1st]

When I copy and paste stuff, I'm copying and pasting stuff from the very top of your industry.

They're not the thoughts of someone working in the spares department of a provincial dealer.

Again that would be the very top who've been negotiating the deal I linked on here this morning..

It isn't just my thoughts though, there are others on this forum who've got similar thoughts but you don't try to talk them down.

You're an idiot quite simply, you want Brexit to fail and you'll desperately try to find the negative in anything even when you've no idea what you're talking about

Even Aston Martin are moving onwards and upwards despite what was said in that link that was posted on here.....strange that one.
It's almost like it was some politically motivated conversation to apply pressure....

[Damo]

Of course car manufacturers are going to be worried about brexit.
None of them are British, and after moving nearly all of production to European countries with a cheap work force, they will now have to work out wether it's best to relocate here, or start paying taxes to import.
Good. It's about time

[UpTheBeehole]

UK car production falls for first time since 2009 as Brexit fears hit sales
Total production of 1.67m cars falls below forecast, fuelled by 10% drop in domestic buyers

UK car production went into reverse last year for the first time since the depths of financial crisis in 2009, as Brexit fears took hold and consumers turned their backs on diesel vehicles.

A total of 1.67m cars rolled off UK production lines in 2017, down 3% compared with 2016 as demand for British-made cars dropped both at home and abroad, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

The number was about 130,000 below the industry’s forecast, largely because of a near 10% fall in domestic buyers as cash-strapped households in Britain were increasingly reluctant to commit to major spending decisions. The SMMT also blamed “confusion” over the government’s policy on diesel.

The trade body warned 2018 was likely to be another tough year for the UK industry, which is facing the prospect of declining investment and zero growth in production volumes.

Companies including Toyota, Jaguar Land Rover, and McLaren last year committed to a total of £1.1bn in future investment in the UK, down 34% compared with the £1.66bn committed in 2016 and below the average over the past few years.

“A drop of that magnitude is a concern,” said Mike Hawes, chief executive of the SMMT, as he warned the government needed to provide “urgent clarity” on a transitional Brexit deal so that companies could press ahead with crucial spending decisions.

“Transitional arrangements must retain all the current benefits or else around 10% of our exports could be threatened overnight,” Hawes said.

“We compete in a global race to produce the best cars and must continue to attract investment to remain competitive. Whilst such investment is often cyclical the evidence is that it is now stalling, so we need rapid progress on trade discussions to safeguard jobs and stimulate future growth.”

The UK industry has abandoned a target to build more than 2m cars a year by 2020 – breaking a previous record of 1.92m in 1972 – because of the scale of uncertainty posed by Brexit.

“It’s hard to see [the industry achieve] that when we have this period of uncertainty. We still hope that we can maintain the inherent strengths that we have, but circumstances have undoubtedly changed,” Hawes said.

About 80% of cars made in Britain are destined for export markets. In 2017 vehicles made for overseas markets fell 1.1% to 1.33m, while those made for sale in the UK fell 9.8% to 336,628. The EU is the UK’s biggest export market for cars, with more than half of all exports destined for the single-currency bloc.

Hawes said there was a risk that Britain was so distracted by Brexit that it could fall behind other countries focused on the development of electric and driverless technology.

“That’s the danger when you’ve got uncertain times. Every company is modelling different scenarios and trying to make sure they’re in the best possible place,” he said.

Theresa May met industry leaders in November to discuss their concerns about the sector after Brexit.

Andy Barratt, chairman and managing director of Ford in the UK, which employs about 14,000 people, said the government had listened to their concerns. “We have an active voice. Industry has been very clear and consistent about what it needs.” Barratt said Ford was still investing in its engine plants at Dagenham in Essex and Bridgend in south Wales.

Mick Flanagan, vice-president at Adient, which makes the seats for one in every three cars produced around the world, said that delays of just two to three hours at a customs border would create a “big problem” because production lines run with “military precision”.

Last week Jaguar Land Rover, Britain’s biggest car manufacturer, announced plans to cut production at its Halewood plant near Liverpool, blaming faltering sales after the Brexit vote and a tax crackdown on diesel vehicles.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -hit-sales

Wow, that's strange Sidney, you've been saying it's nothing to do with Brexit, and it turns out it's very much to do with brexit!

[Sidney1st]

Hello you massive bell sniffer.

I'm just driving up to Newcastle for tonight's game so I can't spend the time taking you to pieces again about this.

Whilst I'm driving could you please find the part where I've said it's nothing to do with Brexit.

We all know you won't because I haven't said that, I've said there are other contributing factors, but as per the norm you ignore anything that doesn't suit your moronic agenda on here.

If I can be arsed later I'll come back and take the **** out of you, but you might get lucky and have a couple of days without me.

[Sidney1st]

I know what McLaren are planning and I've seen the current models coming from JLR.
JLR special division have just announced a Range Rover coupe ltd edition for £200k , with production limited to 999 I think it is.
They've recently announced the sale of a defender with a 5.0ltr V8 for £150k I think.

Like I've said numerous times now the industry changes and always will.
Companies came and went before Brexit and will continue to do so afterwards.

You can carry on pasting stuff though, it clearly makes you happy.

I'm surprised you aren't polishing your nose though, to make it easier to sneer down at the common man on here with it.

[UpTheBeehole]

Whilst I'm driving could you please find the part where I've said it's nothing to do with Brexit.

Every single time someone, whether a poster on here or one of the top people in the industry has suggested it's to do with Brexit, you've had a whole host of other reasons you think it is, whather that's cyclical investment, vans being made in Turkey, people not buying cars because theyre waiting for electric ones, all kinds of stuff.

The one thing you've absolutely refused to concede as the reason is Brexit.

Brexit was cited at the start of the thread. Brexit has continued throught the thread, with quotes from JLR, from the SMMT, from government statistics. It's the one thing you've got your fingers in your ears saying lalala about.

That latest article pins the blame squarely on Brexit, and its knock on effects. These are all things you've dismissed.

It's time you woke up and realised that you're ridiculously blinkered to the truth.

[Sidney1st]

The sole reason isn't Brexit though, even your pasted post says that you divvy.

Go away and come back when you've got an actual clue what you're talking about

You'll be blaming the weather on Brexit next, that's how stupid you sound on here sometimes.

Anyway, I'm off now, back to driving.
Have fun running around predicting doom and gloom whilst touching yourself excitedly

[UpTheBeehole]

Mate, it's not my industry up sh*t creek, it's not my job on the line.