Trump and Jerusalem...Insane

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:05 pm

I'm now very. very sure that the "right" on this one have no clue about Middle Eastern politics

But hey it annoys libtards, so its all good

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:05 pm

Damo wrote:The same guy said he wants to "knock out" anyone who is from the political right or something

Oh I'd love to see that happen

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:09 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm now very. very sure that the "right" on this one have no clue about Middle Eastern politics

But hey it annoys libtards, so its all good

So it's middle eastern politics, Brexit, anything else you are more clued up than everyone else about?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:22 pm

Damo wrote:So it's middle eastern politics, Brexit, anything else you are more clued up than everyone else about?

After today’s revelations I’m pretty confident Lancaster is more clued up on Brexit than those charged with delivering it!!

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:46 pm

To try and play devil's advocate, and i'm struggling, "they have tried everything else" doesn't really work does it?

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:50 pm

So the original occupants of Jerusalem were the Jebusites, a Canaanite tribe.
Originally the Jews had a portable Tabernacle that was at one time located at Shiloh.
The Jews lived around Jerusalem but it was only King David who finally destroyed the Jebusites.
Jerusalem then became the capital and once Solomon built the original temple they had a permanent centre of religious activity.
The first temple was destroyed by The Babylonians and the second Temple by The Romans after they had but down a Jewish revolt.

Jerusalem was then essentially a Roman City with Jews still living there but under heavy restrictions and eventually were banned from the city.

At this point it had become an insignificant Roman town, that changed when Constantine converted to Christianity - it now became a City of worship for Christianity.

With the fall of The Roman Empire Jerusalem was conquered for the first time by Muslims.

Then were The Crucades - back to being a city of Christianity.

Back to Muslim control but with freedom of worship.

Under German control for a while.

Part of Ottomon Empire (Freedom of worship)

About as complex a history as any city in the world basically.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:06 pm

So it's middle eastern politics, Brexit, anything else you are more clued up than everyone else about?

Can still crash of a dissertation on the role of Sweden in the 17th and 18th centuries in the Baltic if you like!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:11 pm

There's only one reason to do this, and that's to **** off Muslims. But as with so much of the far-right's politics nowadays, ******* off people you hate is a good reason to do something.

Edit: also to provoke terrorism which will then be used to justify war.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:13 pm

UN position on the solution is still the "two states"

So as IT says, the only reason to do this is to provoke Muslim terror attacks.

What a wonderful man you right wingers like eh?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:17 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:There's only one reason to do this, and that's to **** off Muslims. But as with so much of the far-right's politics nowadays, ******* off people you hate is a good reason to do something.

Edit: also to provoke terrorism which will then be used to justify war.

Its better than killing them.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:27 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Its better than killing them.

I missed the point where he had a straight up choice between doing something unnecessary and provocative to **** off Muslims or killing them. Must have been a tough call for him.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:28 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Its better than killing them.

That's the saddest rationale of your politics i could possibly read.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:31 pm

I know you both know exactly what I meant by that comment but decided to take it out of context anyway, but it's OK guys. I won't hold it against you.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:48 pm

Bacchus wrote:I missed the point where he had a straight up choice between doing something unnecessary and provocative to **** off Muslims or killing them. Must have been a tough call for him.

The point of this is to ultimately kill muslims. The goal of the jihadists like ISIS is to start a war between muslims and everyone else, and that's also the goal of the likes of Donald Trump. So it makes sense that he'll want to ban Muslims from his country and make the ones who are already there register as muslims in order to persecute them and drive them into the arms of ISIS recruiters, because then they'll blow themselves up on buses and trains which will be used to further justify persecution. It's like he watched The Seige and thought Bruce Willis was the hero.

So this, what he's done with the US embassy, makes perfect sense if the objective is something other than peace.

And of course Trump's supporters are also foaming at the mouth in excitement about the possibility of a war between them and those they hate. Some of them are even excited about the possibility of a civil war within the US, because these people are batshit crazy.

Just look at this.
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-alex-jone ... nce-639912" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:52 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I know you both know exactly what I meant by that comment but decided to take it out of context anyway, but it's OK guys. I won't hold it against you.

I'm pretty sure it was justifying your attitude of "if muslims hate it lets do it" because at least they're not as bad as ISIS' politics. If there was another interpretation that you would prefer then please explain it.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:22 pm

Totally agree with most of that, IT. This isn't some well meaning gesture that might have unintended consequences. It's a cynical ploy to provoke those consequences in order to justify what he really wants to do. Most people can see that.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:32 pm

Corky wrote:I don't normally get involved in these, quite often, pointless debates but just for you I will make an exception. Not to argue the point with you, you understand, just to offer my views on your mental state.

Are you really as stupid as you make out. Really!!!

Nobody could actually be that stupid.....

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm pretty sure it was justifying your attitude of "if muslims hate it lets do it" because at least they're not as bad as ISIS' politics. If there was another interpretation that you would prefer then please explain it.

It was a simple point that when right wingers hate someone, they make them angry. When Islamists are angry, they kill people. But you already knew that.

Besides.

Islam is a religion of peace, so we have nothing to worry about.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:36 pm

Shocked to see ClaretMoffitt, claretandy and dom on this thread.

If there's a batshit crazy idea out there, you can bet your life that these three posters will be, at least, sympathetic to it, and at most, wholly in favour of it.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:40 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Shocked to see ClaretMoffitt, claretandy and dom on this thread.

If there's a batshit crazy idea out there, you can bet your life that these three posters will be, at least, sympathetic to it, and at most, wholly in favour of it.

Not gonna lie, I'm wholly in favour of this one. Israel needs to be kept as strong as humanly possible.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:42 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:It was a simple point that when right wingers hate someone, they make them angry. When Islamists are angry, they kill people. But you already knew that.

Besides.

Islam is a religion of peace, so we have nothing to worry about.

You're equating being right-wing with being an islamist? Talk about false equivalencies.

Yes, being right wing is better than being an islamist. But so is being a Muslim. Why didn't you compare being right-wing to being just an ordinary Muslim?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:43 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Not gonna lie, I'm wholly in favour of this one. Israel needs to be kept as strong as humanly possible.

How does this help that?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:43 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You're equating being right-wing with being an islamist? Talk about false equivalencies.

Yes, being right wing is better than being an islamist. But so is being a Muslim. Why didn't you compare being right-wing to being just an ordinary Muslim?

Because most Muslims don't follow their religious text to the letter, thankfully.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:48 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Because most Muslims don't follow their religious text to the letter, thankfully.

Neither does the right-wing.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:49 pm

Israel needs to be kept as strong as humanly possible.

This doesn't help that though

If the US wanted to keep Israel as strong as possible, it would just increase its military funding. All this does is annoy a hell of a lot of moderate muslims.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:50 pm

I'm sure the Deep State will be happy!.....

If Trump Declares Jerusalem Capital of Israel, Chaos Will Reign......Robert Fisk

An Israeli dream might come true if Trump declares Jerusalem the capital – but so will an Arab nightmare

"Amid three catastrophic Middle East wars, it would be difficult to imagine anything more provocative, dangerous – or just plain insane – than for the Americans to move their embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.......

... It means that the United States would acknowledge that the city of Jerusalem, sacred to Muslims, Jews and Christians, is the capital of the Israeli state and that the Palestinians can never share it. The slovenly “peace process” – abandoned by the Israelis, then by the Palestinians and then by the Americans years ago, although “statesmen” still talk about it in the dream world in which they live – would no longer exist even in our imaginations......

..... At least when Jerusalem remained the subject of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, the Arabs of the West Bank could believe in the vague hope of a share of the city. But if Trump goes ahead, then America can never field another “peace process”, even an imaginary one. “A colossal blunder” will be the least the world will say about the United States if Trump does not sign the waiver..."

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=162311" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trump playing with fire in Jerusalem.....Ali Abunimah

"...However, Trump’s move will embolden the so-called Temple Movement.

With significant Israeli government backing, this extremist Jewish movement aims to destroy Jerusalem’s al-Aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock and replace them with a Jewish temple – potentially triggering religious conflict on an unimaginable scale."

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/al ... -jerusalem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image by Latuff

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:55 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:It was a simple point that when right wingers hate someone, they make them angry. When Islamists are angry, they kill people. But you already knew that.

Besides.

Islam is a religion of peace, so we have nothing to worry about.

Islamists are (extreme) right-wingers.

2 cheeks of the same arse.

Also, you don’t think (non-Islamist) right-wingers kill people? David Copeland, Thomas Mair, Anders Brevik, Dylann Roof and some bloke called Adolf something might disagree with you there.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:02 pm

Greenmile wrote:Islamists are (extreme) right-wingers.

2 cheeks of the same arse.

Also, you don’t think (non-Islamist) right-wingers kill people? David Copeland, Thomas Mair, Anders Brevik, Dylann Roof and some bloke called Adolf something might disagree with you there.

And Putin. He's pretty right wing.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:07 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:And Putin. He's pretty right wing.

Not sure if troll...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:09 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Not sure if troll...

You disagree? Explain.

And when am i going to get an answer to this post? http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... 0#pr581956" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:11 pm

Trump needs to be tranquilised!

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:12 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You disagree? Explain.

And when am i going to get an answer to this post? http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... 0#pr581956" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So an ex kgb agent for communist Russia who vows to restore the glory of the ussr is right wing? A man who is on record saying "I have always admired communist and socialist ideals" is right wing? Legit now?

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:16 pm

For ethnic cleansing and genocide Israel wants driving into the Mediterranean, along with the US embassy and Trump.

A right bunch of t**ts.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:17 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:So an ex kgb agent for communist Russia who vows to restore the glory of the ussr is right wing? A man who is on record saying "I have always admired communist and socialist ideals" is right wing? Legit now?

How come people like Trump, Farage and Le Pen are such big fans of this Commie Socialist?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:18 pm

Greenmile wrote:How come people like Trump, Farage and Le Pen are such big fans of this Commie Socialist?

I'm not sure if they are. But if they are I have no idea why.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:20 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:For ethnic cleansing and genocide Israel wants driving into the Mediterranean, along with the US embassy and Trump.

A right bunch of t**ts.

Swap the weaponry around between the true groups and then you'd see what ethnic cleansing really is. The Jews in the region would be extinct within the month.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:21 pm

And Netanyahu. He seems to like murdering lots of people.

Next Year in Jerusalem ... Eve Mykytyn

"Why has President Trump decided to move the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem? His son in law and special envoy to the middle east, Jared Kushner, is a family friend of Netanyahu, and perhaps this is Kushner’s doing. But Kushner is on Robert Mueller’s radar in part because of his not very kosher ties to Israel....

..While right wing groups in the US have long supported the move, this effort seems to be pushed by Netanyahu and a few right wing Jewish American donors like Sheldon Adelson. Netanyahu is facing corruption charges in Israel. Perhaps Netanyahu wants to point to this ‘victory’ in his own defense.

..Apparently Netanyahu believes that boasting about his ability to control American political decisions is good for Israel, or at least for Netanyahu. Israel has publicized its efforts to delay a UN sanctions vote through Kushner and then president-elect Trump

....Kushner’s subsequent half hearted efforts to solve the conflict appear to be going nowhere. The US ambassador to Israel, David Friedman is, like Kushner, a donor to Israeli right wing settlement groups and Friedman has called any Jew willing to make peace with Palestinians “no better than the [Jewish] Kapos” who assisted the Nazis. These men charged with negotiating peace in the Middle East for the United States are unlikely to try to restrain Trump’s reward to his crony....""

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2017/12 ... -jerusalem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:25 pm

Blue Labrador and Turtle singing from the same hymn sheet...

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:25 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:So the original occupants of Jerusalem were the Jebusites, a Canaanite tribe.
Originally the Jews had a portable Tabernacle that was at one time located at Shiloh.

I've heard of Shiloh. Didn't The Virginian come from there. Surely him and Trampus can sort it out.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:26 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Swap the weaponry around between the true groups and then you'd see what ethnic cleansing really is. The Jews in the region would be extinct within the month.

They lived together side by side before some Austrian tit f**ked it all up and gave the excuse to the rest of the world.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:28 pm

He would have agreed with your desire to drive Israel into the sea.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:30 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Blue Labrador and Turtle singing from the same hymn sheet...

Lul what?

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:31 pm

Regardless what I think of the decision I'm not sure why people are using this as a way to batter Trump. He's not the first president to promise this, but he's the first to deliver. We need to remember that he was voted in.

I don't think America or Britain or Europe or anyone else is is going to help the situation over there, I'm tired of seeing news about needless deaths. I've read through the views of various people today and all I can think is when do they all decide enough is enough and get on with it. It's blunt and it may be a little harsh, but they need to find a peaceful solution and until they do they will continue to kill each other.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:33 pm

Wise words:

Rouhani: Plot against Al-Quds Latest Adventure by Global Arrogance

Iranian President Hasan Rouhani on Wednesday urged Muslim countries to resist against a recent plot against the holy city of Al-Quds.

Talking at a meeting of participants of the Islamic Unity Conference held this week in Tehran, Rouhani said the “enemies of our lands are thinking of new plots following the victories achieved by the nations in the region in fighting terror,” urging people of the region to remain alert.

“Now that they have realized terrorism has not been successful in the region, they are trying to make a new plot, by turning the region into an arsenal, selling different kinds of arms to Muslim countries, and intensifying intervention in internal affairs of the countries,”

Now the enemies are targeting the liberation of Al Quds, ..

“The holy city belongs to the Muslims and Palestinians, and nobody can resist feelings and thoughts of its people; this is the latest adventure of the global arrogance in the region,”

“Islamic Republic of Iran, has never agreed to change of regional borders, and will not tolerate the desecration of the Islamic sanctities.”

“The prophet taught resistance and defense to everybody, and established security and stability in the Islamic territories of the time beside empowering people,”

https://english.almanar.com.lb/399914" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:34 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:He would have agreed with your desire to drive Israel into the sea.

The original terrorist state.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:34 pm

boyyanno wrote:Regardless what I think of the decision I'm not sure why people are using this as a way to batter Trump. He's not the first president to promise this, but he's the first to deliver. We need to remember that he was voted in.

I don't think America or Britain or Europe or anyone else is is going to help the situation over there, I'm tired of seeing news about needless deaths. I've read through the views of various people today and all I can think is when do they all decide enough is enough and get on with it. It's blunt and it may be a little harsh, but they need to find a peaceful solution and until they do they will continue to kill each other.

He was also elected to put 11 million people into detention camps and to create a database of all America's muslims. Does that mean he shouldn't be criticised if he goes and does that?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:37 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I'm not sure if they are. But if they are I have no idea why.

They are...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/10/worl ... ussia.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Trump)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... mire-putin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Farage)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 66196.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Le Pen)

...because he shares their values.

http://www.france24.com/en/20161115-why ... rage-trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fwiw, I’m not sure right wing is a useful term to describe Putin, but it’s a whole lot closer to the reality of his current views and policies than socialist or communist.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:37 pm

What would "driving Israel into the sea " involve ?

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:40 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He was also elected to put 11 million people into detention camps and to create a database of all America's muslims. Does that mean he shouldn't be criticised if he goes and does that?

You can criticise the system, even the people who voted for him, but you can't criticise a turd for promising to cover the world in sh*t, being elected supreme leader and then making good on his promise.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:42 pm

Greenmile wrote:They are...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/10/worl ... ussia.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Trump)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... mire-putin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Farage)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 66196.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Le Pen)

...because he shares their values.

http://www.france24.com/en/20161115-why ... rage-trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fwiw, I’m not sure right wing is a useful term to describe Putin, but it’s a whole lot closer to the reality of his current views and policies than socialist or communist.

Economically he's still left wing as ****. Socially I guess by western modern standards he is considered right wing. I mean just being anti-islam and against mass immigration is far right these days in this country. So I guess he does fit that bill.