Jeff Hendrick

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:14 pm

Hendrick is a superb ball carrier. I'd like to think he'll take up his previous position again soon.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:20 pm

jdrobbo wrote:Hendrick is a superb ball carrier.

Yes, and I've said it before and I'll say it again, he's the best all round midfielder we have.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:23 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:First half an hour he was dreadful.

He was better after that, well he couldn't have been any worse.

Corks failure to squeeze up and challenge for the second ball in injury time after Barnes had made life difficult for the Liverpool right back directly led to the free kick from which Liverpool scored their winner. Had Hendrick been so far back on his heels in a similar position he'd get pelters.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:25 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Our best chance in the first half was created by Hendrick laying it off for Arfield to curl it just wide.

He missed a pass in the first half, and had his back to a pass in the second, which he got slated for.

He's doing a job there, and has already been pointed out that is part of a team that is in 7th place.

I'd like some competition for his place (Arfield) but I think he is doing ok, certainly better than a lot on this thread are making out.

He was also key to setting up the chance for Arfield's flick header in the first half, amongst a number of other significant involvements.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:27 pm

Blackrod wrote:I regularly agree with most of your match analysis but on this occasion I cannot agree with any of this.

By all means disagree with my view of the quality of his involvement, that's just my opinion, but i hope you'll agree that the fact he was pretty involved im the first half is simply a matter of fact.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:37 pm

Inchy wrote:I see what he does, I just think we can do better. I think we will be looking to replace in Jan or the summer

It's a hell of a player who can be a number 10, ball carrying midfielder and also cover defensively for the two more defensive midfielders when they push on. There was one occasion in the first half when Defour and Cork both got sucked into pressing high and it eas Hendrick who got back to track Lallana right to the ebge of our box despite Lallana having a 20 yard start on him. Not too many players who can do that whilst also being proficient as a "number 10".

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:46 pm

Hes had two good games this season. Both in a 0-0 against a promoted side away. Huddersfield and brighton.

He then scored against the other promoted side, Newcastle.

His winner against Everton was top quality. But its the only real moment of top quality i recall from him this season.

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:48 pm

People definitely only see what they want to see.

His touch was far from poor today the one in the first half which he brought down in the box and laid back fir JBG to cross in behind Barnes was excellent. He also received it into feet and moved it on with his back to goal well. He was hampered by the movement off him and also by his own inability / confidence to turn and drive forward with the ball. I’d agree that he did play that god awful back pass first half and get caught hanging on to it once in the second half. However in possession (those aside) he was far from the liability some seem to be suggesting.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:54 pm

Have to agree with claretspice on this one.
I thought it was a decent enough performance today. Looked to tire in the second half though.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:58 pm

He would be a lot better playing with Vokes and a proper left winger.

Joe Buck · Post by **Joe Buck** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:01 pm

Reading some of these posts you’d think that we’ve climbed to our league position with ten players . Give your heads a wobble

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:03 pm

13 million reasons why he will start every game he’s fit for.

And that’s a shame. Decent player, but inconsistent and out of position.

Square peg, round hole. He’s just not working where he is. I’d like another (lengthy) look at Westwood, who NEVER gives the ball away btw. We might need to switch around a little, but we are already playin a player oop so maybe we should have a look see?

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:05 pm

claretspice wrote:It's a hell of a player who can be a number 10, ball carrying midfielder and also cover defensively for the two more defensive midfielders when they push on. There was one occasion in the first half when Defour and Cork both got sucked into pressing high and it eas Hendrick who got back to track Lallana right to the ebge of our box despite Lallana having a 20 yard start on him. Not too many players who can do that whilst also being proficient as a "number 10".

Wasn’t that arfield? And who is also proficient as a “number 10”.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:08 pm

bobinho wrote:13 million reasons why he will start every game he’s fit for.

And that’s a shame. Decent player, but inconsistent and out of position.

Square peg, round hole. He’s just not working where he is. I’d like another (lengthy) look at Westwood, who NEVER gives the ball away btw. We might need to switch around a little, but we are already playin a player oop so maybe we should have a look see?

If the idea is Dyche doesn't have the balls to bench players if they're his marquee signings, then see Defour, Brady and Wood in the last year alone.

And if the argument is that Hendrick is a square leg in a round home, which if Westwood, Defour and Cork are you suggesting would be better suited?

Bizarre logic.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:09 pm

bobinho wrote:Wasn’t that arfield? And who is also proficient as a “number 10”.

No, it was Hendrick. Ran 70 yards to get back.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:12 pm

claretspice wrote:Completely nonplussed by the comments on this thread and more than a little concerned it means Hendrick isn't going to win Burnley fans over.

He was anything but anonymous in the first half today- he was involved plenty, with good rotation in midfield meaning he was regularly getting on the ball on genuine midfield positions, and a number of our best movements coming from errors he forced or from him picking up the ball and driving between the lines. For my money, he was our best player in the first half with the possible exception of the centre halves.

I didn't think he was that much less effective in the second half either, although the fact we had less of the ball meant he was having to fight for scraps a bit more. For my money hed have stayed on the park ahead of Corj in particular when we went 442.

Hes not a player who will win lots of flicks ons or play with his back to goal like a target man - that's not his game and it's not really what Dyche wants him to me. Nor is he going to throw himself into tackles like Joey Barton might. I cant help but wonder if that's colouring some perceptions of him. One way or another I'm clearly seeing far more from Jeff Hendrick than virtually everyone else on this messageboard (although as ive pointed out, he's started every league game for which he's been fit this season irrespective of the impressive form of his replacement, which suggests Dyche values him highly).

So why did Dyche sub him? Agree on some of your points and I like him as a player but he is not a natural in position he is currently being played. That is the point really. Its a very specialized position.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:13 pm

Joe Buck wrote:Reading some of these posts you’d think that we’ve climbed to our league position with ten players . Give your heads a wobble

We’ve climbed to our league position thru hard work, skill and endeavour. And a fantastic, hard to match team work ethic. Don’t kid yourself we’ve done it cos we have a team of Lionel messi’s.

Not all our players are top drawer. They all have a job to do, and all do it to the best of their ability, no one doubts that. 100% every game from everyone, But if hendrick was a top drawer no 10, he wouldn’t be playing for us. The fact is he just isn’t a no 10. He’s a box to box midfielder, and his creative ability is limited. He has some decent games, but in the main he’s a 7/10 player when in the game. He’s just not always in the game.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:18 pm

Well unless we manage something stunning on Saturday, squad rotation isn't going to be much of an issue. Almost everybody will have more games than us. Some up to 10 more.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:21 pm

claretspice wrote:If the idea is Dyche doesn't have the balls to bench players if they're his marquee signings, then see Defour, Brady and Wood in the last year alone.

And if the argument is that Hendrick is a square leg in a round home, which if Westwood, Defour and Cork are you suggesting would be better suited?

Bizarre logic.

Jeff Hendrick. Number 10. Nothing more bizarre than that.

He’s waaaaay out of position. Defours skill and creativity would be far better suited to that role than hendrick. Of course that would upset the balance and partnership he has built with cork. Even a 1/1 swap with Westwood would be worth a look with hendrick being so inconsistent in that role.

No ones havin a pop at him, or trying to make a scapegoat out of him. He’s just being played in a position that doesn’t suit him. He’s almost ineffective, and he’s had more games where he’s a bit part player than games where he should be influencing it. Number 10’s do that. Jeff doesn’t. He just doesn’t.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:58 pm

Defour has never played in that position throughout his entire career, including 50 caps for Belgium and many for clubs in the Champions League.

I find the suggestion he would be better there to be completely perplexing.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:46 pm

RVclaret wrote:Defour has never played in that position throughout his entire career, including 50 caps for Belgium and many for clubs in the Champions League.

I find the suggestion he would be better there to be completely perplexing.

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the noggin to nail it. After all, he can’t be a worse “number 10” than hendrick. Defour is a quality player, who reads the game brilliantly, and he has some deft touches and insightful passes. Number tens need that in their locker, they need to see what the players ahead of them are doing, where they are going, and seeing the space they have left behind in case cover is required. Defour does that in our half. I’d like to see him do it further forward, or at least have a look at it.
Hendrick has never been a number 10, but it doesn’t stop us playing him in that role (ish). Thats perplexing.

Jeff has his place, he’s a good player, just not where he is at the moment.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:55 pm

Defour would be worse than Hendrick in that role for us.

He might get away with it if he played for Liverpool or someone like that, but not for us as we are at this moment.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:05 pm

Ok. Maybe defour ISNT the answer for jeffs position. I don’t know if he is or he isn’t.

But it’s becoming increasingly obvious, that jeff isn’t either. So maybe the answer isn’t already at the club?

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:13 pm

You can tell from watching Defour that it’s his role and preference to play deeper (yes he will push up on occasion) but in the main he wants and needs the play in front of him.

I fully agree that we need an alternative for the ten role but it’s not Defour.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:17 pm

If Hendrick is doing so well, why is he constantly being hauled off and why is he barley scoring or assisting in the forward role?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:20 pm

If Hendrick is doing so badly, how the hell are we seventh in the Premier League?

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:21 pm

The nearest for that role (for us) I can see, who's already here, is Jon Walters.

I'm not enthused by that though.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:23 pm

I find the idea that most Burnley fans can’t see what Hendrick is contributing patronising. Similar to when we were told that most of the good stuff that Chris McCann did went unnoticed, when really it was because he didn’t do much.

Hendrick’s not a scape goat, people just expect more from him and rightly so. Today wasn’t his worst day - he was pretty dire at Huddersfield just a couple of days ago.
He’s a very tidy footballer but he’s out of position and largely ineffective when he’s got his back to goal. It would help if he showed the aggression, competitiveness and desire to show for the ball that Barnes does.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:24 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:If Hendrick is doing so well, why is he constantly being hauled off and why is he barley scoring or assisting in the forward role?

If he's doing so poorly, why does he keep being picked to start?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:25 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:If he's doing so poorly, why does he keep being picked to start?

Because nobody else can fit that role and presumably he is the best option currently.

Personally id be more expansive and go 442 especially at home where we arent scoring.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:25 pm

Tall Paul wrote:If Hendrick is doing so badly, how the hell are we seventh in the Premier League?

The team has performed absolutely fantastically, I don’t think anyone is questioning that. But that’s not a reason that we can’t pick out shortcomings in our game and suggest room for improvement. We average less than a goal a game, this is an area of the pitch that we clearly need to be improving on.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:28 pm

I don’t think he is doing ‘so well’ but by the same token he isn’t doing ‘so badly’.

Hopefully we are in the market for another winger because playing with Scotty doesn’t help him. Another number 10 would be another welcome addition too, whether it’s to keep Jeff on his toes or replace him. We need Wood back fully fit and firing too after the cup game as his movement in behind provides more options.

I would like to see all of Cork, Defour and Hendrick rested against City. They are looking rather tired (understandably so). Start Westwood and Deano in a 4-4-2, Vokes and Wells up top.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:30 pm

Rileybobs wrote: But that’s not a reason that we can’t pick out shortcomings in our game and suggest room for improvement. We average less than a goal a game, this is an area of the pitch that we clearly need to be improving on.

But (and I know that you aren't saying it) it's not just Jeff Hendrick who is the problem for that.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:37 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:But (and I know that you aren't saying it) it's not just Jeff Hendrick who is the problem for that.

Of course it isn’t. But we lack a potent goalscorer, as do most teams outside of the top 6. And with Brady injured, the creativity and attacking threat is placed quite heavily on JBG’s shoulders. In the last two games the opposition has realised this and largely nullified the threat in the second half.

We’re unlikely to come across a more potent goal threat than Wood, who was the Championship’s top scorer last season unless we look overseas. As such we should be looking to upgrade on the ‘number 10’ position and bringing in a left sided wide midfielder to cover in Brady’s absence and give us another option when he returns.

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:37 pm

Proper marmite player. Although I think the majority think he's not good enough playing in his current position.

I think he's been consistently poor in recent games. I watched him closely today again and in the main is passing is very poor, usually going backwards to Mee or Tarks. Mostly he does plenty of running with no great effect. In my opinion he adds very little to the team.

For those that think he is so great, why do you think he was unable to command a regular place in the Derby team?

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:44 pm

3putt wrote: For those that think he is so great, why do you think he was unable to command a regular place in the Derby team?

Probably the shittest argument against, on this thread.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:49 pm

Jeff has good games and bad games, but the bloke who none of us can ever question picks him every week, and in the position that he's apparently crap at.

I'm not going to call anyone "patronising" because everybody who watches football has a fair idea of what players do and don't do, but I learnt a long time ago not to question SD on what he does, cos he knows more than I'll ever know about his players.

We can all have opinions, but if he was as bad as some of you say he is, then either you are wrong (or exaggerating how bad he is) or SD is wrong.

Think about that for a sec

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:04 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Jeff has good games and bad games, but the bloke who none of us can ever question picks him every week, and in the position that he's apparently crap at.

I'm not going to call anyone "patronising" because everybody who watches football has a fair idea of what players do and don't do, but I learnt a long time ago not to question SD on what he does, cos he knows more than I'll ever know about his players.

We can all have opinions, but if he was as bad as some of you say he is, then either you are wrong (or exaggerating how bad he is) or SD is wrong.

Think about that for a sec

I don’t think anyone is really suggesting that Hendrick is a bad player. I certainly don’t think he is. It seems like most of his critics are saying that he is too ineffective in the position that he is being played in. That’s a big difference. Dyche clearly sees Hendrick as being the most suited player to that position, within that formation in our squad. That’s not to say we can’t do better now the transfer window has opened and other current players are available following lengthy injuries.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:31 am

Hendrick the lad who scored the winner at Everton, set up the winner at home to Watford with a peach of a dummy.............
Some days he isn't great, some days he is quality, most days most of us miss what he does and I genuinely cannot tell you what his preferred position is - there in lies the problem.

He's playing in a team that should finish top 10 in this seasons Premier League
For those that think Hendrick is crap you'd do well to remember Nick Pickering

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:56 am

Nick Pickering. I won't hear anything bad about Swift Nick.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:47 am

bobinho wrote:Jeff Hendrick. Number 10. Nothing more bizarre than that.

He’s waaaaay out of position. Defours skill and creativity would be far better suited to that role than hendrick. Of course that would upset the balance and partnership he has built with cork. Even a 1/1 swap with Westwood would be worth a look with hendrick being so inconsistent in that role.

No ones havin a pop at him, or trying to make a scapegoat out of him. He’s just being played in a position that doesn’t suit him. He’s almost ineffective, and he’s had more games where he’s a bit part player than games where he should be influencing it. Number 10’s do that. Jeff doesn’t. He just doesn’t.

Well, that's a direct and scathing criticism of the manager. But I suspect he'd respond by saying Hendrick isn't playing as a number 10, which is a badge given by supporters online. He's playing a more wide ranging role than the one you refer to.

He's not perfect, he can improve and the role (whatever it is best described as) does highlight one or two weaknesses with his back to goal, and I think he'd be much more effective if we had more pace out wide so he had more of the game in front of him.

But he's been an automatic pick even when Arfield and Walters were available as alternatives in that position. He's been subbed recently when we want to go more direct to try and win a game or get back into a game in the final quarter, but it's worth pointing out that there have been a number of games when Defour has been "hauled off" rather than Hendrick.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:52 am

I'm not disagreeing with you Rileybobs, its more to do with the other posters who appear to think that they have to criticise more than the previous post to get their point across.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:53 am

I think Jeff is doing a good job in a difficult position. He presses well and puts in a lot of defensive work. However, when the ball is at his feet I don't see enough. He doesn't make many passes which create chances, although that could be because he only has Barnes ahead of him.

I just think we could do better and expect that he wont be starting in that position next season.

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:54 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Probably the shittest argument against, on this thread.

Just the highly intellectual answer I anticipated

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:10 am

As fans we all having different opinions about players and tactics and that will be the same with every club across the country. There is nothing wrong with voicing those opinions on a footy message board. It would be very unusual if not unheard of for every fan to rate/like every player in the team that they support.

I don't think Hendrick has offered anywhere enough this season, but that is just how I see it. At the same time, I recognise that Dyche is a brilliant manager who has achieved great, great things at Burnley and clearly he is the expert. That doesn't mean that as fans we will never question his tactics or team selection.

That's what football fans do.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:34 am

Er, yes that is what fans do.

You'll forgive me though for thinking that some seem to think that they might know a bit more than our best manager in our lifetime though!

To me, Hendrick is having good bits and bad bits in games, but replacing him with a more attacking player would mean (hopefully!) more chances at one end, but also less defensive solidity at the other because of what he does to help out when we are not in possession.

Thats the dilemma that our manager has, and as we are so hard to score against, I think he's got it about right.

With a bit of better defending in the 90th minutes and a fair referee, we'd be on 39 points so I don't think we are doing too much wrong!

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:47 am

claretspice wrote:Well, that's a direct and scathing criticism of the manager.

No. It isn’t. Please don’t try to “win” the discussion by putting words in my mouth. I read a lot of your posts, and I like em, and you’re much smarter than that. As far as I’m concerned, Sean Dyche is BEYOND scathing criticism. That’s now on the record. I’m trying to think what he means to me, the team, the club and 99% of fans, but I can’t quite find the words.

Your opinion of jeffs worth to the team is insightful, well thought out eloquently delivered. But just like my post, it’s an opinion, like mine, but different. Your opinion is shared by some, but if you look back thru this thread, you will see that not everyone agrees with you with regards to jeffs input. I just think he’s inconsistent, and goes missing for long periods. Sean picks him every game when he’s fit, he also subs him to try to change the game. That’s the bit of his game i have the issue with. To try to tip the scales in our favour, the manager thinks replacing Jeff is the best option. He doesn’t do that because he’s already influencing the game.

I like hendrick, and my opinion is that he doesn’t play in his best position. I don’t know really what that is, but I think his current one isn’t getting the best from him.

Pretend we’re in the pub having an informal chat.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:51 am

Guller Bull wrote:Yup agree on Cork today. however reality now kicking in - Its great to be ****** off with a shaky 1 goal defeat by Liverpool.

There many opinions on here, not surprisingly, but as you seem to suggest we should be mindful of where we have come from and what we expect. We are now moaning about losing narrowly to Liverpool to an injury time goal and doing the same about not winning at Old Trafford, that to me is absolutely brilliant. Not too long ago we would have been saying job well done if we had kept it to 0-3, now we are actually complaining about dropping points to these teams (Arsenal as well). How bloody wonderful is that guys.

ashtonlongsider · Post by **ashtonlongsider** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:52 am

I have never doubted Hendricks industriousness and he can does close opponents down very well. However, if he is being charged with being a No 10 or attacking midfielder then he doesn't affect play enough in the final third. Ashley Barnes worked his socks off yesterday as always, shielded the ball well but when it came to passing he had little or no options. When the ball dropped loose in the box, not just yesterday but in general, we have nobody following in. Same when quality crosses are played into danger areas. No I'm not solely blaming Hendricks but I would suggest it's the most important position that needs addressing and hopefully in this window.

taio · Post by **taio** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:02 am

Some really fair comments about Hendrick (and Cork's performance yesterday) - if he doesnt improve soon we need to try a different option.