When a club moves stadium is it still the same club?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Thinking about Saturdays visit to The Etihad and in so many ways it feels like a completely different club. Not only is it a totally different stadium and feel, its also an hour or so walk from the old place.

Often talk of MK Dons on here but pretty much every new ground Ive been to seems like a different club altogether. Plenty of other clubs have moved. Bolton is not even in Bolton. West ham is now in Stratford, in London traffic often an hours drive away in rush hour and is any time walking - I have done it, and in a different community entirely.

Everton will be moving to The Docks.

Clubs like Preston, Wolves, Forest, us and even dare I say it Chelsea and Man Utd have updated old grounds and it feels like the same club to me.

This is what I think of when I think City and West Ham...In the heart of the community a proper stadium.

[Dazzler]

I reckon many residents living in the midst of Turf Moor probably wish the club would sod off and build a stadium somewhere else.

[Clarets4me]

I reckon many residents living in the midst of Turf Moor probably wish the club would sod off and build a stadium somewhere else.

I'm sure some might, but then again, they all knew it was there when they chose to live there ! It's a bit like people who complain about the noise when they live near Heathrow, it's been a major International Airport since the early 1950's, what do you expect ?

[Dazzler]

I was thinking more about traffic & street parking rather than noise.

[TheFamilyCat]

I'd say the Sheikh's money has more to do with City feeling like a different club more than the stadium.

[Chuckypad]

That's an ace picture of Maine Road and captures exactly what you're saying

[claptrappers_union]

Though having an old fashioned, historical stadium in the hub of the community is quite unique in top flight football, it’s holding us back commercially compared to our competition.

[Blackrod]

Couldn't agree with the OP more. I like walking down a terraced street and feeling a buzz around a community on the way to the ground. It's magical. Going to Reading or Bolton offers none of that and I could quickly get out of the habit if I supported clubs like that.

[chekhov]

Though having an old fashioned, historical stadium in the hub of the community is quite unique in top flight football, it’s holding us back commercially compared to our competition.

How would that be?

[NottsClaret]

Though having an old fashioned, historical stadium in the hub of the community is quite unique in top flight football, it’s holding us back commercially compared to our competition.

Doesn't feel like we're being held back much at the minute.

[No Ney Never]

Though having an old fashioned, historical stadium in the hub of the community is quite unique in top flight football, it’s holding us back commercially compared to our competition.

In what way is it holding us back commercially?

[Rick_Muller]

Though having an old fashioned, historical stadium in the hub of the community is quite unique in top flight football, it’s holding us back commercially compared to our competition.

In what way...?

EDIT - oh...

[claptrappers_union]

Uses other than a matchday really, No restaurants, bars, hotel, casino, exhibition space, onsite parking, our matchday hospitality is limited compared to other clubs, no real room for large corporate events or concerts, or other sporting events like boxing etc. We don’t do naming rights.

Clubs with purpose build stadiums can accommodate all this and reap from the investment

[bfcmik]

Though having an old fashioned, historical stadium in the hub of the community is quite unique in top flight football, it’s holding us back commercially compared to our competition.

I would have thought that being a small town with significant economic problems was much more an issue holding us back commercially than our ground location.

[elwaclaret]

I agree with your point I think clubs lose something when they leave their traditional stadiums. City is a bit different as they moved from Maine Road BACK to their original location near Gorton.... so in many ways they were going back to the future - they even originally formed as Gorton FC I seem to remember right (from history books, not memory I might add!)

[houseboy]

I think a move of ground is fine if it's at least in the vicinity of the old one but how do fans feel when the club move miles away or, as with MK Dons, to a completely different town? Even, as has been pointed out, Bolton are not even in Bolton now, they should be re-named Horwich Wanderers. And what happened with Wimbledon? How the hell were they allowed to move miles away to a different town and re-name themselves completely and thus, effectively, become a different club, a new club that didn't have to work it's way up the league ladder? That one has always baffled me from a legal (for want of a better word) point of view.

[LoveCurryPies]

I'm sure some might, but then again, they all knew it was there when they chose to live there ! It's a bit like people who complain about the noise when they live near Heathrow, it's been a major International Airport since the early 1950's, what do you expect ?

Heathrow in the 1950's had propellor driven aircraft landing every half hour or so. Very different to having huge modern jets landing every 45 seconds. Don't know how you can compare that with Turf Moor.

If Turf Moor was to be relocated, the local residents would most likely have a large supermarket or even shopping centre on their doorstep. 24 hour truck deliveries and visiting cars 7 days a week.

[UpTheBeehole]

Uses other than a matchday really, No restaurants, bars, hotel, casino, exhibition space, onsite parking, our matchday hospitality is limited compared to other clubs, no real room for large corporate events or concerts, or other sporting events like boxing etc. We don’t do naming rights.

Clubs with purpose build stadiums can accommodate all this and reap from the investment

There's no market for all that in Burnley though

[ClaretTony]

Certainly wasn't the move from Maine Road that changed Manchester City - it was becoming the richest club in the world.

[2 Bee Holed]

Maine Road. I helped to build two of those stands.
However, when did the Kippax get replaced with that 2-tier stand?
MCFC must have spent a lot of money re-developing Maine Road in the last 20 years of its life
...then they just up roots and left!

[Caernarfon_Claret]

Everton survived when they moved from Anfield and Liverpool have done OK since they moved in to Anfield.

[tim_noone]

I'm sure some might, but then again, they all knew it was there when they chose to live there ! It's a bit like people who complain about the noise when they live near Heathrow, it's been a major International Airport since the early 1950's, what do you expect ?

Heathrow now doesn't compare to 1950s Heathrow. Not so long ago I lived facing an old sewing shed in Barlick yes I knew what I was facing..what I didn't see twenty years down the line was a certain bedding company and other companies developed given license to operate 24/7 riding roughshod over the community.horrendous!To turf moor yes I know what I'm buying.

[ClaretTony]

Maine Road. I helped to build two of those stands.
However, when did the Kippax get replaced with that 2-tier stand?
MCFC must have spent a lot of money re-developing Maine Road in the last 20 years of its life
...then they just up roots and left!

The big stand (Kippax) opened in 1995, just after the new Platt Lane Stand. Lot of work had to be done following the Taylor Report.

[claptrappers_union]

There's no market for all that in Burnley though

Exhibition Space and Corporate Events would be used regularly, like it is at the moment at Turf Moor, it’s just very limited in numbers and space and it’s very basic.

Ewood Parks facilities are much better.

The market is there

[elwaclaret]

Maine Road. I helped to build two of those stands.
However, when did the Kippax get replaced with that 2-tier stand?
MCFC must have spent a lot of money re-developing Maine Road in the last 20 years of its life
...then they just up roots and left!

A mate of mine surprised his girlfriend by buying a house next to the Maine Road ground. He couldn't beliveve how cheap he'd got it for. When we went into the yard one of the stantions from the Kippax was embedded into the flags taking up half his yard - "Just look at that! He exclaimed delightedly... I'd of paid extra for that!"
His girlfriend wasn't as impressed. Just 12 months later they anounced the move to Gorton

[UpTheBeehole]

Maine Road. I helped to build two of those stands.
However, when did the Kippax get replaced with that 2-tier stand?
MCFC must have spent a lot of money re-developing Maine Road in the last 20 years of its life
...then they just up roots and left!

It had a very, very small third tier

[tim_noone]

Remember sprinting down the backstreets of Maine rd 67/68 to the central motors B.coach

[UpTheBeehole]

Exhibition Space and Corporate Events would be used regularly, like it is at the moment at Turf Moor, it’s just very limited in numbers and space and it’s very basic.

Ewood Parks facilities are much better.

The market it there

Not for a restaurant, not for a casino, not for bars, not for a hotel.

There's a reason Burnley doesn't have a single Nandos/Chiquito/Frankie & Benny's/whatever type chain restaurant. The demand just isn't there. It's a tiny town.

Casino: ditto

Bars? There's a town centre with quite a few in and most of them are dying on their feet.

Hotel? There's a Premier Inn, a Travelodge and a Holiday Inn, all virtually empty. Oaks is dead, Keirby's closed.

There's no market for any of that stuff in Burnley. It's a backwater. It's Burnley, not Barcelona.

[2 Bee Holed]

What did they call the stand to the left of the photo behind the nets Tony?
It's nearest to Lloyd street. That woman with the bell used to sit in there.

I live about a mile from there now. It's all housing now. Blue Moon way etc.
However, the old street names still exist Kippax Street and Maine Rd etc.
I even saw the word Kippax at the new ground last Saturday.
I assume they copied our Longside for their their Kippax?
You had to double take to make sure you weren't at the Turf.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Though having an old fashioned, historical stadium in the hub of the community is quite unique in top flight football, it’s holding us back commercially compared to our competition.

Id say far from it. Not only is there no demand for it, the cyrrent setup is actually a selling point in itself. Part of the appeal. Both to burnley fans and foreign football tourists.

[2 Bee Holed]

It had a very, very small third tier

Sorry I missed that 3rd tier from the aerial photo.

[LoveCurryPies]

There's no market for all that in Burnley though

"Build it and they will come!" Good job Kevin Costner wasn't a Claret.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Certainly wasn't the move from Maine Road that changed Manchester City - it was becoming the richest club in the world.

Not so sure about that. Theyd have not have become this at the old place. Not a chance. It was the move to the new shiny stadium that appealed first to shinawatra and then mansour.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Exhibition Space and Corporate Events would be used regularly, like it is at the moment at Turf Moor, it’s just very limited in numbers and space and it’s very basic.

Ewood Parks facilities are much better.

The market is there

Going well for them that isnt it?

[2 Bee Holed]

Another stand of that era...when they didn't give a s**t whether the lower tier people got wet.
I know it's more expensive...but slope the roofs to the pitch!
I helped with the new roof on the Main stand (opposite this one).
I am sure more spectators remained dry.

[UpTheBeehole]

"Build it and they will come!" Good job Kevin Costner wasn't a Claret.

People do feasibility studies before parting with significant money to open a restaurant.

Now what do you think those feasibility studies say bearing in mind there are no restaurants/shops of that ilk in the town?

[Sidney1st]

Not so sure about that. Theyd have not have become this at the old place. Not a chance. It was the move to the new shiny stadium that appealed first to shinawatra and then mansour.

Same with Leicester and that new one they've got.

[ClaretTony]

That last stand built at Maine Road was awful. Maybe they knew then they'd be moving after the Commonwealth Games into the new stadium, but they had to move from Maine Road at some time.

[2 Bee Holed]

Peter Swales...remember him?
It was rumoured when doing that Main Stand roof that we only got paid after a home game.
This was only a rumour mind!
Imagine that problem with Mansour?

[2 Bee Holed]

That last stand built at Maine Road was awful. Maybe they knew then they'd be moving after the Commonwealth Games into the new stadium, but they had to move from Maine Road at some time.

I don't know Tony. Is it that much different than our two newest stands?
Or, do you think the same way as I do about our two newest additions?

[UpTheBeehole]

That last stand built at Maine Road was awful. Maybe they knew then they'd be moving after the Commonwealth Games into the new stadium, but they had to move from Maine Road at some time.

The new Kippax wasn't cheap; at £16m it was 4 times their annual turnover, and there were plans to replicate it around the ground. If they hadn;t have gone down they'd have proceeded with it.

The move to their council house was because they were getting a deal which was almost too good to be true. They were getting a £112m stadium, built by lottery grants and the council, and the council then chipped in another £20m to convert it for football.

They pay £3m a year, equivalent to what they'll pay their 8th choice left back or something.

[ClaretTony]

I don't know Tony. Is it that much different than our two newest stands?
Or, do you think the same way as I do about our two newest additions?

Our ground's a mess really when you look at it. We built two new stands in the 90s that don't even fit together, one is built nowhere near where it should have been built. The cricket field stand is way over towards the Bob Lord side and I wouldn't want to sit in the first few seats at that end.

I suppose that's what happens when you have no plan and your ground is built piecemeal over a period of time, very similar to Maine Road in that respect.

[ClaretTony]

The new Kippax wasn't cheap; at £16m it was 4 times their annual turnover, and there were plans to replicate it around the ground. If they hadn;t have gone down they'd have proceeded with it.

The move to their council house was because they were getting a deal which was almost too good to be true. They were getting a £112m stadium, built by lottery grants and the council, and the council then chipped in another £20m to convert it for football.

They pay £3m a year, equivalent to what they'll pay their 8th choice left back or something.

It's one of the most expensive council houses in the country I think

[Clarets4me]

Heathrow in the 1950's had propellor driven aircraft landing every half hour or so. Very different to having huge modern jets landing every 45 seconds. Don't know how you can compare that with Turf Moor.

Heathrow was handling 170 flights a day in 1953, and that was the first year it hit a million passengers. It was named " London Airport " as early as 1946, served the world's 2nd largest city and was at the centre of a world-wide Empire... As a wise man once said, " A blind man on a galloping horse " could have foreseen it's expansion....

[LoveCurryPies]

As a wise man once said, " A blind man on a galloping horse " could have foreseen it's expansion....

A bit like the Claret's success then.

[Cirrus_Minor]

There has been a lot of changes in football. Mega rich foreign owners, domination of tv, multinational players, Internet (gambling, etc.), mostly based upon the worldwide popularity of the Premier league. But there is every chance that it will not be like this forever and some could change back.

Be interesting to see what this would mean to clubs that have uprooted themselves from the communities where they were formed.

[Dyched]

I find most if not all new stadiums, buildings on high streets, cities boring. Glass fronted steel no imagination shite. Old stadiums, buildings have so much character and stand the test of time. Maine Road looks fantastic in that photo, so does Upton park and the 2 Liverpool grounds. Turf Moor looks tired in areas but could be tarted up a little. Some new cladding on the back of the bob lord and please please please light up the Burnley Football Club sign! But other than that it's beautiful

Take The Shard for example, it just looks shite.
As does that new Apartment skyscrapper in NYC just shite. The twin towers looked majestic only to be replaced by an half arsed effort of shite.

[Clarinetclaret]

Not for a restaurant, not for a casino, not for bars, not for a hotel.

There's a reason Burnley doesn't have a single Nandos/Chiquito/Frankie & Benny's/whatever type chain restaurant. The demand just isn't there. It's a tiny town.

Funny that because Bury is a smaller town than Burnley and nearer Manchester but it has all that and gets very busy.

[Steve1956]

I don't think I could ever get my head around going watching a home match other than at Turf Moor,with all these clubs playing in out of town places,can you imagine going watching A Burnley home game in somewhere like Crawshawbooth or Stacksteads...no thanks, I think the Turf will be our home till the end of my days thank god.

[chekhov]

Take The Shard for example, it just looks shite.
As does that new Apartment skyscrapper in NYC just shite. The twin towers looked majestic only to be replaced by an half arsed effort of shite.

I believe the Guardian are looking for a new architecture critic...