Leicester awarded first VAR goal

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:26 pm

Offside given by asst ref overruled.

Very tight decision.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:31 pm

I don’t see how they can use it for that. Defenders stop when they see the flag (not saying it happened on this occasion). You could say that defenders should play on but what about strikers who get booked for putting the ball in the net after the whistle has gone. If they don’t and they’re shown to be onside then they’ve been done out of a goal.
The only way to do it is to not flag for marginal decisions, if a goal is scored then go back and look. If not then just continue.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:33 pm

Bödvarsson hatrick, have a word Gudmundsson.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:33 pm

Good.

It will teach these idiots to keep playing to the whistle.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:34 pm

I can see the linos going on strike. Looked a good decision, in real time, to award the offside.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:35 pm

I don’t see how it can work unless linos only give obvious decisions.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:03 pm

Just picture the headlines, had that inaugural goal been scored by V.A.R-dy...

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:05 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:I don’t see how it can work unless linos only give obvious decisions.

I’d guess assistant referees will simply stop flagging for any tight decisions once var becomes the norm.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:07 pm

jdrobbo wrote:Just picture the headlines, had that inaugural goal been scored by V.A.R-dy...

"VAR" not Vardy fillets "cods" for Leicester.

There we go - any journo's want my assistance with headlines.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:22 pm

apparently 4 decisions went to the VAR

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:33 pm

Ffs. Stop ******* with the game.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:11 am

I agree. Anyway I think in general the linos do a good job. For the marginal decisions we've just got accept some will go for, some against. Suck it up and get on with it. I'm fed up with all this moaning about referees. It's just a game for ****'s sake.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:27 am

it might be a hard job but most of the refs are clearly unfit (100% their fault) and make poor decisions (they are human). The sooner they get help the better. A Premier League team gets relegated due to a bad decision and 200 people lose their job - hardly seems fair to me.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:42 am

3 teams get relegated every year. That's 600 jobs by your calculation. Life's unfair.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:45 am

Kelechi Iheanacho. Future quiz question answer. Make sure it's logged in the memory banks fellow Clarets.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:58 am

Logically if they are to use it for this then the Ref has to avoid blowing until the chance is attempted. I assume he had to have done in this instance?

If that will be the convention, fair enough. A positive to watch the game certain that a goal is correct most of the time. It’s no fun seething over a wrong goal like we have done many times this season.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:00 am

Interesting point on the radio (Chris Evans). If a players flagged offside but continues his run, puts the ball in the net then gets booked, in the intervening period the var is looking at it and gives the goal. Is the player un booked?

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:05 am

chekhov wrote:I It's just a game for ****'s sake.

If only that were true. The 'offside rule' could be the 8 th Wonder of the World. Something a lot of people have seen, yet still a mystery to them and still as controversial as the day it was introduced.

titsoutforthelads · Post by **titsoutforthelads** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:18 am

Vegasclaret I have told you a million times - dont exaggerate

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:40 am

As for playing to the whistle teams will get used to this when VAR is introduced, so issues of players stopping when a flag goes up will disappear.

The field officials need some encouragement to make their own decisions. In cricket there is an umpires call which gives the officials the benefit of half a cricket ball's width. Why not give the linos the benefit of say one third of a metre or less. Technology can easily draw the lines for them

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:43 am

What I can't understand is why they have to have this bizarre system.

IMO the video ref should be watching the whole game and he tells the ref if something has happened or a wrong decision is made.
If it takes more than 2 replays, then he doesn't tell the ref and you carry on. It means every now and then something will be missed which would keep the anti-video ref people happy as it not only keeps the 'discussion' side of the game and won't affect the flow. It will spot obvious mistakes - which is the reason it's actually wanted, and it won't undermine the ref. Plus usually when there's something to absolutely need a video ref for the players are barking at the ref anyway.

Stopping the game and re-running tight decisions is exactly what fans didn't want.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:45 am

Surely the big downside is that spontaneous celebration of a goal will disappear in the case of VAR, and when a goal is actually given in that instance the cheering will be far more muted.

How rubbish is that?

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:51 am

[quotd]..........disappear.

The field officials need some encouragement to make their own decisions. In cricket there is an umpires call which gives the officials the benefit of half a cricket ball's width. Why not give the linos the benefit of say one third of a metre or less. Technology can easily draw the lines for them[/quote]

Why give them any leeway at all? The media, pundits, fans et al are clamouring for every decision to be correct so just get rid of the onfield officials and do it all by VAR --surely everybody will be happy then because very decision will be correct.
They have messed about with TLOG so much over the last 25 years that they had might as well go all the way and let technology take over and that included the whole of the ball being over the whole of the live for throw-ins because this is probably the decision which is wrongly made more than any other.
Just a few more steps to ensure that there is no physical content in the game and FIFA will have been triumphant in their quest to change the game of football into a sterile form of what it used to be.
Meanwhile back in the lower leagues, non-league, grassroots etc. we will continue to have a shortage of officials coming through.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:53 am

Vegas Claret wrote:it might be a hard job but most of the refs are clearly unfit (100% their fault)

Well that's one thing they very definitely are not and if they are unfit they lose their place

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:55 am

ClaretTony wrote:Well that's one thing they very definitely are not and if they are unfit they lose their place

CT --Don't let the truth get in the way of speculation

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:27 am

The amount of unfit refs is laughable. Granted the players are another level of fitness... but id rather a fit ref in each half than var.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:34 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:CT --Don't let the truth get in the way of speculation

Not even speculation though is it - I'm aware of the fitness levels they have to reach. But the game is so quick now it makes it very, very difficult.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:42 am

Mental fitness is the key to refereeing. They have to be alert all the time.

It's a myth that referees have to be up with play. Dutch research some years ago suggest twenty meters as an ideal distance for best decision making. This report says something similar in its conclusions:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4738964/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:53 am

Vegas Claret wrote:it might be a hard job but most of the refs are clearly unfit (100% their fault) and make poor decisions (they are human). The sooner they get help the better. A Premier League team gets relegated due to a bad decision and 200 people lose their job - hardly seems fair to me.

Serious question mate: why 200?

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:04 am

Hipper wrote:Mental fitness is the key to refereeing. They have to be alert all the time.

It's a myth that referees have to be up with play. Dutch research some years ago suggest twenty meters as an ideal distance for best decision making. This report says something similar in its conclusions:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4738964/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hipper, your first sentence says it all when it comes to refereeing at the top level.
I know that you have tried refereeing and are aware of the many pitfalls involved, however, the difference in mental sharpness between refereeing at Championship level and PL level is quite amazing. The main reason for this is the fact that the players themselves are so much quicker in thought and consequently they react so much quicker than those at a lower level.
For an official stepping up to the top level, this is one of the most difficult things to become accustomed to and they are learning all the time and it is a subject which comes under discussion quite a lot.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:04 am

houseboy wrote:Serious question mate: why 200?

He just made it up, it's a ridiculous exaggeration.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:13 am

no need for linesmen anymore. the only job they do is now redundant.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:15 am

quoonbeatz wrote:no need for linesmen anymore. the only job they do is now redundant.

They can still do the offsides that are a yard or more offside, just not the close ones.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:46 am

quoonbeatz wrote:no need for linesmen anymore. the only job they do is now redundant.

Who's going to ensure that corner kicks are taken inside the quadrant?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:52 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Well that's one thing they very definitely are not and if they are unfit they lose their place

Ok, I'll re-phrase it. The FA needs to increase the fitness levels required to be a referee. Jon Moss can't keep up with Peter Crouch never mind getting close to the likes of Firminio

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:54 pm

houseboy wrote:Serious question mate: why 200?

Total guess work, but attendances drop = less stewards, less shop staff, less ticket staff, less programme sellers, smaller playing squad, less groundsman etc etc. It's been well documented over the years.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:18 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Ok, I'll re-phrase it. The FA needs to increase the fitness levels required to be a referee. Jon Moss can't keep up with Peter Crouch never mind getting close to the likes of Firminio

The refs work for PGMOL but how do you think they are going to get fitter? Their job isn't to keep up with selective players.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:The refs work for PGMOL but how do you think they are going to get fitter? Their job isn't to keep up with selective players.

ok PGMOL, I'm well aware of what a refs job is, I just don't think the likes of Moss are up to doing it. As for what to do about it, Managers Monday with Dyche in pre-season

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:57 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:I just don't think the likes of Moss are up to doing it

As I've posted, the fitness testing is stringent and the Premier League referees will be considered more than fit enough otherwise they wouldn't be there.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:09 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:I don’t see how they can use it for that. Defenders stop when they see the flag (not saying it happened on this occasion). You could say that defenders should play on but what about strikers who get booked for putting the ball in the net after the whistle has gone. If they don’t and they’re shown to be onside then they’ve been done out of a goal.
The only way to do it is to not flag for marginal decisions, if a goal is scored then go back and look. If not then just continue.

The flag going up means nothing at all. The linesman can be jumping up and down or running onto the pitch waving his flag, but until the ref blows his whistle, play goes on and any defender who stops is asking for trouble.

Conversely, once the whistle has gone, the ball is dead and there's nothing VAR can do to bring it back to life. It doesn't matter if the player was 5 yards onside, if the whistle's gone, play stops.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:20 pm

beddie wrote:Interesting point on the radio (Chris Evans). If a players flagged offside but continues his run, puts the ball in the net then gets booked, in the intervening period the var is looking at it and gives the goal. Is the player un booked?

But wouldn't the yellow card be for the offence of carrying on when the referee has basically asked him to stop? So not actually a case of whether it was on or off.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:38 pm

Simple solution: relay pitches using the technology from the massive keyboards in Big.

We'd definitely be able to tell who was offside.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:10 pm

beddie wrote:Interesting point on the radio (Chris Evans). If a players flagged offside but continues his run, puts the ball in the net then gets booked, in the intervening period the var is looking at it and gives the goal. Is the player un booked?

they'd go to VAR before booking someone. it is daft though because if the ref blows for offside but the var says its wrong, play has been stopped. so what happens? free kick to the attacker? everyone goes back to where they were when the whistle when and the attacker gets to carry on his run?

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:27 am

Vegas Claret wrote:Total guess work, but attendances drop = less stewards, less shop staff, less ticket staff, less programme sellers, smaller playing squad, less groundsman etc etc. It's been well documented over the years.

Do Burnley even employ 200 people? Shocked.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:29 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:it might be a hard job but most of the refs are clearly unfit (100% their fault) and make poor decisions (they are human). The sooner they get help the better. A Premier League team gets relegated due to a bad decision and 200 people lose their job - hardly seems fair to me.

That's nonsense. Any team that gets relegated does so because they are not good enough to stop up!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:03 pm

houseboy wrote:Do Burnley even employ 200 people? Shocked.

I would expect we employ more than that on a matchday, directly or indirectly

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:05 pm

Spijed wrote:That's nonsense. Any team that gets relegated does so because they are not good enough to stop up!

Really ? So when we beat Sheff Utd at Wembley our cause wasn't helped by Mike Dean not giving them a blatant penalty ? Nice to know that ref's decisions have no effect on things.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:17 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:I would expect we employ more than that on a matchday, directly or indirectly

It's not something I've ever given much thought to but I suppose if you add them up it could be, and even more so at places like Arsenal and United etc.

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:32 pm

I've always maintained that the purpose of the ref is to apply the rules as best as he can to bring the game to a fair conclusion. He cannot possibly get every decision right. It would help if we reverted to the original offside law and also went back to giving the benefit of the doubt to the defence. Both these changes were brought in to supposedly sdd more excitement/goals but just confused things.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:59 pm

In the year ended June 2016, BFC employed on average 118 playing and coaching staff, 44 full time admin staff, 23 part-time admin staff, and 213 additional matchday staff per game. That was in the Championship.

In the year ended June 2015 (Premioer League), it was 109 playing and coaching, 46 full time admin, 12 part time admin, 286 matchday.

The figures can be a bit dubious because of certain people eg. agency staff such as the stewards won't be included here. These are the people paid directly by BFC, not the people paid indirectly via agency.