Nick Pope & Sean Dyche

diamondpocket · Post by **diamondpocket** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:57 pm

When Tom becomes fully fit it is going to be really interesting if Pope continues or Tom comes straight back in. I don't think Pope deserves to be dropped but will he once our reputable Tom comes back?

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:00 pm

No brainer for me, pope keeps the shirt.

JimmyMac'sMate · Post by **JimmyMac'sMate** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:01 pm

Heaton was a England goalkeeper before he was injured pope as done great but only my opinion but Heaton for me utc

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:01 pm

I think he will only play Tom when we are safe just to ease him back into the game. Only time will tell if Tom will be the same keeper after such an injury

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:02 pm

I hope Pope gets swapped.
He has years on his side. Plenty of future to come.

Would love to see Tom make a World Cup squad - realistically being his last chance.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:05 pm

prone to agree with mdd2 on this one.
Heaton will feature at some stage but probably not immediately.
Unfortunately probably not enough to give him much chance of making the World Cup squad.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:09 pm

Nick keeps the shirt.

I'd bet an inch of me wotsit Tom doesn't get a sniff until Pope either drops a massive swinger, or he picks up an injury or suspension.

If you have been around Burnley as long as SD, then surely you must know this to be true?

the_fat_shearer · Post by **the_fat_shearer** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:10 pm

Pope has been good but has not been operating on the same level as Heaton. However, Dyche obviously likes to give people a chance - Bardsley's got in after Lowton's injury and although he's not been playing on average to the same level as Lowton he's still got the shirt.

Personally I would bring Heaton in but I suspect Dyche will let Pope keep the shirt until he deems him to be doing something that is significant enough to justify for him to lose it.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:10 pm

When both fit Heaton is the better keeper so he’s in for me.

Pope has done really well but I rate Heaton higher.

Oshkoshclaret · Post by **Oshkoshclaret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:16 pm

Maybe we rotate them like England did with Shilton and Clemence. Serious point. There may be some oppenents that Sean thinks it would be advantageous to use Pope's height and ability with high crosses. Others where Tom's more accurate and composed kicking would be especially useful.

Whatever, this is the kind of problem we want to have.

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:23 pm

If Heaton is fully fit he has to start for me. He’s top class!

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:41 pm

Pope to see the season out.
Then the first team shirt is up for grabs, best man gets it.

diamondpocket · Post by **diamondpocket** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:45 pm

Rotation will never happen under Dyche Oshkosh, I think we know that.
From reputation, Dyche should never drop him because Pope has earned his position so shouldnt lose the role but I wonder if reputation will change Dyche's mind? He talks alot about trust and group dynamics; this will be a real test of Sean's principles.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:47 pm

Difficult one. Pope is the future and if he goes back on the bench clubs will come sniffing around him. Tom is outstanding though and in keeper terms is still young.
The recovery and how strong and stable his shoulder becomes could be the clincher.

colne-claret · Post by **colne-claret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:51 pm

I doubt we will see Heaton again this season. I think Pope will see the season out then it’s up for grabs over the summer.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:54 pm

No reason whatsoever for Pope to lose his place.
Been an excellent replacement.

No matter how good Tom is.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:56 pm

If pope was doing just "alright" then I would advocate that Tom moves straight back in as soon
as he is fit enough and back up to speed.

However Pope has been outstanding in my opinion, and should keep the shirt. It would be very
unjust to replace him as it stands.

You never know, Pope may perform even better now that he knows that the competition for
the shirt is back on again.

A great situation to be in.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:02 pm

The good thing is there's no need to rush Heaton back with Pope having done so well. His full fitness and our safety could almost coincide so would not be surprised to see him retake the roll at that point.

I did think when Pope was praised after last nights game how quick Dyche was very quick to shift to Heaton which makes me think he's hinting at his return.
https://youtu.be/Es_3rU25XSo?t=1m38s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:06 pm

CombatClaret wrote:The good thing is there's no need to rush Heaton back with Pope having done so well. His full fitness and our safety could almost coincide so would not be surprised to see him retake the roll at that point.

I did think when Pope was praised after last nights game how quick Dyche was very quick to shift to Heaton which makes me think he's hinting at his return.
https://youtu.be/Es_3rU25XSo?t=1m38s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wouldn't make too much out of that, he's often praised Kevin long.

diamondpocket · Post by **diamondpocket** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:21 pm

If Pope lost his position once Tom is fully fit, I would question all that Sean stands for really; we know that Tom is probably the better keeper overall but Nick has done nothing wrong to warrant losing the shirt

IAmAClaret · Post by **IAmAClaret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:33 pm

Personally, i always think you stand more chance of winning a game playing your best 11. Its the same reason why i feel lowton should be back in the 11.

If an England international, who is also captain of your club, is fit and available.... he plays.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:35 pm

I think both are premier league standard keepers. I expect one of them to move on in the summer, I would guess Pope. Very few keepers have the chance to play in the premier league and even fewer get to be the 1st choice keeper at there club. Pope for the sake of his career can not go back to being a no.2 keeper, he will have no choice but to move in the summer if he isn't going to be no.1 for the Clarets. It's so easy for a goalkeeper's career to fizzle out, when they are hot like Pope is they have to make the most of it.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:37 pm

diamondpocket wrote:When Tom becomes fully fit it is going to be really interesting if Pope continues or Tom comes straight back in. I don't think Pope deserves to be dropped but will he once our reputable Tom comes back?

Nick Pope has been in superb form ever since he's played so he stays until his form drops.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:43 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:I think both are premier league standard keepers. I expect one of them to move on in the summer, I would guess Pope. Very few keepers have the chance to play in the premier league and even fewer get to be the 1st choice keeper at there club. Pope for the sake of his career can not go back to being a no.2 keeper, he will have no choice but to move in the summer if he isn't going to be no.1 for the Clarets. It's so easy for a goalkeeper's career to fizzle out, when they are hot like Pope is they have to make the most of it.

Kind of agree but surely if Heaton has the No1 jersey and starts next year we could loan Pope out. Clubs coming up would take him. If Villa come up they havent got a decent enough keeper likewise most of the others in the top 6. Would get his wages paid, a year of playing time under his belt and still be our player for the future

diamondpocket · Post by **diamondpocket** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:45 pm

Clevelys, you cannot seriously loan out your second keeper; that never happens.Unless a recall if Tom gets injured again but what about the 3rd keeper?you're basically saying you'll never play!!!

Duffer_ · Post by **Duffer_** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:51 pm

No, nothing says "you'll never play" like recruiting a fourth keeper and putting him on the bench when your first choice keeper gets injured.

UTC!

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:56 pm

A year of playing time under his belt? What do you think he's getting now?

Why on Earth would we loan Pope out?

Duffer_ · Post by **Duffer_** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:01 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:A year of playing time under his belt? What do you think he's getting now?
Why on Earth would we loan Pope out?

Not for me to answer on behalf of Cleveleys but...because he won't be getting a year of (top flight) playing time if he's second choice. I think it's a creative solution to a great problem to have.

UTC!

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:03 pm

Sell Pope and play Heaton, Pope will be worth more than Heaton and we simply can't afford to have 2 keepers of that quality sat around fighting for 1 spot. Personally I think Pope is marginally the better keeper but he'd likely fetch us £20M due to his age etc.

PrecisionClaret · Post by **PrecisionClaret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:12 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:No brainer for me, pope keeps the shirt.

A little naive if you ask me.... Pope has been a very good understudy but Burnley has one Number 1 and that is the Captain, Tom Heaton. As soon as he is back and match fit, he will start and so he should.
Pope may feel aggrieved, and rightly so, but Heaton is more experienced, can kick, a better all round player and our best keeper in the past 50 years.

I suspect we will receive some offers for Pope in the summer.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:18 pm

England's 1 and 2 for World Cup anyone?

Rumbletonk · Post by **Rumbletonk** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:23 pm

Heaton is the best shot stopper and Pope commands his area better. We are blessed with 2 outstanding keepers.

You do realise that if you combine the 2 you get Hope. Brought a tear to my eye I tell thee

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:37 pm

diamondpocket wrote:If Pope lost his position once Tom is fully fit, I would question all that Sean stands for really; we know that Tom is probably the better keeper overall but Nick has done nothing wrong to warrant losing the shirt

To flip your point a little Tom did nothing wrong to lose his shirt in the first place, so why should his injury be punished just because the person there to be his back up has done their job well.

Rumbletonk · Post by **Rumbletonk** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:41 pm

You cant drop a keeper with the 2nd best stats in the league. He's achieved what he has without our 1st choice back four for long periods.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:40 am

PrecisionClaret wrote:A little naive if you ask me.... Pope has been a very good understudy but Burnley has one Number 1 and that is the Captain, Tom Heaton. As soon as he is back and match fit, he will start and so he should.
Pope may feel aggrieved, and rightly so, but Heaton is more experienced, can kick, a better all round player and our best keeper in the past 50 years.

I suspect we will receive some offers for Pope in the summer.

how many goals has pope been at fault for? This is the crucial factor! Pope has been outstanding and I think that it would be a mistake to put heaton back on reputation only. How can it be naive to keep somebody on the pitch that’s hardly put a foot out of place?

All this captain ********?? If he let two goals a game in would you be saying that? The form keeper should play, and that, for now, is pope!

Edit to say that I can’t believe you think it’s naive to play somebody who has been outstanding sinc he came in just to play somebody who has a title at the club. You’re being too sentimental! Btw, I love heats!!

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:55 am

No way will Heaton walk back into this team, it is not the Dyche way.
Pope has been excellent, to drop him would be bad man management.

I honestly can't see Heaton getting a game again this season unless Pope is injured or suspended

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:49 am

I hope Pope has a long contract with a ridiculous buy out clause

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:41 am

diamondpocket wrote:When Tom becomes fully fit it is going to be really interesting if Pope continues or Tom comes straight back in. I don't think Pope deserves to be dropped but will he once our reputable Tom comes back?

It's Popes shirt now,Tom will struggle getting game time with us.
Given Popes age he is our future.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:56 am

Pope keeps the shirt for me. Done absolutely nothing to warrant losing the shirt.

diamondpocket · Post by **diamondpocket** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:05 am

CombatClaret wrote:To flip your point a little Tom did nothing wrong to lose his shirt in the first place, so why should his injury be punished just because the person there to be his back up has done their job well.

So, why hasn't Lowts come back in yet? Yet Tarks came straight back in for Long after suspension and injuries.

1914tyrone · Post by **1914tyrone** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:08 am

Pope has done fantastic but Tom is a different class. In he way he commands and organises his defence, distribution and confidence. He is our captain and fully deserves to go to Russia. He should go straight back in.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:23 am

The diverse opinions on here just goes to show what difficult decisions a manager has
to make in the day to day management of a football team.

Mr Dyche gets it right the vast majority of the time and so I will trust his judgement
when the time comes.

I'm off out now to take my daughters dog for a walk, and when I get back I want to see
you all playing nicely.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:45 am

We know Dyche doesn't like to chop and change his team unless he's forced. Lowton should have replaced Bardsley a few weeks ago so that's a perfect example.

We should just concentrate on getting Heaton fully fit and raring to go by playing him in as many behind closed doors games as we can. We need to make sure his shoulder is fully repaired for starters and due to Pope's form there's no need to rush him back. I can see Heaton playing in the last half a dozen matches once we're mathematically safe.

However, what happens if Pope gets called up by Southgate? Would Dyche drop him when there's the potential of a World Cup squad place at stake?!

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:20 am

I think Tom Heaton is excellent, and maybe a slightly better Keeper than Pope. However, Pope’s development this Season has been prodigious. He’s earned the right to truly complete with Heaton for a starting berth. Therefore, as far as I’m concerned, Heaton is going to have to bide his time.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:23 am

Pope keeps the shirt for me until the end of the season barring a dip in form or if an injury or suspension rules him out.

Summer is the key. Will Pope make the World cup squad? Will teams be coming in with bids for him or Heaton? See where we are when the players return for pre-season and there may well be no decision to be made for next year.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:28 am

Pope won't make the England squad.

For one, his kicking is erratic at best. At international level possession is key, and Pope just does not possess the skills to find his own teammates more often than not. For every successful pass, he's found touch once, found their keeper once and sliced one. That's not the standard required of a modern elite level goalkeeper.

Secondly, he has definitely made errors leading to goals.

Heaton is by far the better all round goalkeeper, with Pope only edging him in the claiming crosses department.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:48 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Pope won't make the England squad.

For one, his kicking is erratic at best. At international level possession is key, and Pope just does not possess the skills to find his own teammates more often than not. For every successful pass, he's found touch once, found their keeper once and sliced one. That's not the standard required of a modern elite level goalkeeper.

Secondly, he has definitely made errors leading to goals.

Heaton is by far the better all round goalkeeper, with Pope only edging him in the claiming crosses department.

Your above synopsis should rule out Hart then. Oh wait!!!!!!!

claretandblue1989 · Post by **claretandblue1989** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:52 am

Logged in just to like the above comment! Joe Hart is pap!

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:59 am

claretandblue1989 wrote:Logged in just to like the above comment! Joe Hart is pap!

And maybe an ex-England manager is his papa!

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:01 am

It'll all come down to contract I guess. Gives management a bargaining chip with Tom.

Either way I see one of them off some point next season