England goalkeepers

Im_not_Robbie_Blake · Post by **Im_not_Robbie_Blake** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:44 am

Southgate must be struggling to pick keepers for his World Cup squad. Hart seems to be too unreliable to get into West Ham's side, Forster has his own problems, Pickford looks like a shot stopper at times but never much more and Butland can blow hot and cold despite looking like top quality at times. Our own two lads must be in contention, with Heaton having some England matches under his belt and just about ready to return, on Pope on form.
Thoughts??

Im_not_Robbie_Blake · Post by **Im_not_Robbie_Blake** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:46 am

Southgate must be struggling to pick keepers for his World Cup squad. Hart seems to be too unreliable to get into West Ham's side, Forster has his own problems, Pickford looks like a shot stopper at times but never much more and Butland can blow hot and cold despite looking like top quality at times. Our own two lads must be in contention, with Heaton having some England matches under his belt and just about ready to return, and Pope in impressive form.
Thoughts??

moaninclaret · Post by **moaninclaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:13 am

Pickford pulled all the stops out on saturday in front of the england manager, what wouldnt have impressed southgate was his lack of ability to command his 6 yard area. nick pope on the other hand is awesome in that department, he plucks the ball out of the air from set pieces and rarely gets beaten from corners, Heaton is a similar type of keeper to Pickford, still our number one though, Forster and Butland although good keepers are getting goals put past them easily and their confidence must be low, Pope must be in with a shout of an England cap given the form hes in, TWO England keepers from Burnley going to Russia? not beyond the realms of possibility is it?

ashtonlongsider · Post by **ashtonlongsider** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:32 am

I know i'm biased but I wouldn't swap Pope for Pickford. Pope is coolness personified and eludes confidence to the defence in front of him.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 am

The other England GK's are playing behind defences devoid of confidence and they aren't offering their GK's much protection.

Pope is playing behind a battle hardened unit who've never let their heads drop and throw themselves in the way time and again to protect him.

This means our GK will play with more confidence as a result.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 am

ashtonlongsider wrote:I know i'm biased but I wouldn't swap Pope for Pickford. Pope is coolness personified and eludes confidence to the defence in front of him.

Agree.
He's come on a huge amount since Toms injury.
His command of his area is very good

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:45 am

If I was Southgate its a no brainer. I would call Billy Mercer up!

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:47 am

It should be Pickford, Butland and Pope (Heaton won`t get enough game time).
It will be Pickford, Butland and Hart.

moaninclaret · Post by **moaninclaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:00 am

I think your right hiroshima, Southgate will choose the keepers you have mentioned, a pity if he dosnt consider pope though but as we all know he wont pick anyone north of Manchester.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:02 am

moaninclaret wrote:I think your right hiroshima, Southgate will choose the keepers you have mentioned, a pity if he dosnt consider pope though but as we all know he wont pick anyone north of Manchester.

Thats true. I mean he watches every week for the fun of it and called up Jack cork for his first cap for a laugh.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:03 am

Sadly I agree with Hiroshima but what dreadful message that sends out to young players if a player who has been rejected by City, Torino and now West Ham makes the squad.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:05 pm

I suspect a quarter of the England team won`t be in Russia on merit. Thus the inevitable bad performances resulting in an early exit which will bring about recriminations by Waddle, Mills and the rest of the sycophants until the next qualifiers kick in.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:15 pm

I think Butland is the best English keeper but on current form Pope would be number 1, however we all know England managers don't pick a team based on club form so Joe Hart it is.

JimmyMac'sMate · Post by **JimmyMac'sMate** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:19 pm

I say bring seaman back will be good for everybodyutc

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:05 pm

HiroshimaClaret wrote:I suspect a quarter of the England team won`t be in Russia on merit. Thus the inevitable bad performances resulting in an early exit which will bring about recriminations by Waddle, Mills and the rest of the sycophants until the next qualifiers kick in.

Its nonsense that. Southgate is taking loads of flack just for who he is. Fact is he has shaken the team up more than any, is prepared to take risks and is doing a good job with what he has. I think he is the best candidate for the English job.

Has done a lot of hard work developing himself since his club management days and also conducts himself very well. Would sooner him than pretty much anyone.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:08 pm

We shall see how shaken up the team is when he announces the squad.

I like Southgate and as with any England manager he's on a hiding to nothing unless he wins a tournament.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:12 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Its nonsense that. Southgate is taking loads of flack just for who he is. Fact is he has shaken the team up more than any, is prepared to take risks and is doing a good job with what he has. I think he is the best candidate for the English job.

Has done a lot of hard work developing himself since his club management days and also conducts himself very well. Would sooner him than pretty much anyone.

Which part? Didn`t mention Southgate once - no flack. The FA have a narrative based around all the `big boys` from the `big teams` representing England. It`s a collective nightmare akin to a ticking timebomb with an incredibly short fuse. I may be too cynical but I was pretty much done after the Iceland debacle, a soap opera filled with the massaged egos of average yet overpaid, gutless footballers.

I hope Southgate proves me wrong. Certainly a nice enough chap who looks the part in his F

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:13 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Its nonsense that. Southgate is taking loads of flack just for who he is. Fact is he has shaken the team up more than any, is prepared to take risks and is doing a good job with what he has. I think he is the best candidate for the English job.

Has done a lot of hard work developing himself since his club management days and also conducts himself very well. Would sooner him than pretty much anyone.

Which part? Didn`t mention Southgate once - no flack. The FA have a narrative based around all the `big boys` from the `big teams` representing England. It`s a collective nightmare akin to a ticking timebomb with an incredibly short fuse. I may be too cynical but I was pretty much done after the Iceland debacle, a soap opera filled with the massaged egos of average yet overpaid, gutless footballers.

I hope Southgate proves me wrong. Certainly a nice enough chap who looks the part in his FA blazer.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:14 pm

For me it would be Butland Pickford and Pope and in that order

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:16 pm

mkmel wrote:For me it would be Butland Pickford and Pope and in that order

That is how it should be (irrespective of the order) but alas, Hart will play his part.

gc14 · Post by **gc14** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:19 pm

We are all used to the usual " pick players on form not reputation " comments from England managers but when it comes down to it i still expect to see Hart, Wilshere, Henderson, Wellbeck,Jones, Smalling etc make the plane

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:21 pm

Pope's playing well but you do have to wonder how he'd look if he wasn't behind the Burnley back 4.

There was a video knocking around recently of how the Burnley defenders act to narrow the shooting opportunities when the opposition get into attacking positions. The result was that far more shots end up going close to the keeper making the saves easier. It's also why we seem to be defying the "expected goals" statistics as we line up to block shots.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:48 pm

aggi wrote:Pope's playing well but you do have to wonder how he'd look if he wasn't behind the Burnley back 4.

There was a video knocking around recently of how the Burnley defenders act to narrow the shooting opportunities when the opposition get into attacking positions. The result was that far more shots end up going close to the keeper making the saves easier. It's also why we seem to be defying the "expected goals" statistics as we line up to block shots.

He can only operate with what is literally put in front of him.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:10 pm

aggi wrote:Pope's playing well but you do have to wonder how he'd look if he wasn't behind the Burnley back 4.

There was a video knocking around recently of how the Burnley defenders act to narrow the shooting opportunities when the opposition get into attacking positions. The result was that far more shots end up going close to the keeper making the saves easier. It's also why we seem to be defying the "expected goals" statistics as we line up to block shots.

and that is why Tom has looked not quite so good when he has played for England, like Keane is finding and both Tarks and Pope would too - without the framework and the whole squad committing to it - it is a very different game and they are not there yet.

And as far as Pope has had a great season for us - his distribution from a moving ball alone would discount him from international football at this time - it can be worked on and has improved but not by enough yet, no matter how far he can kick the ball.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:15 pm

2 of the best English keepers are both at Burnley.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:20 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Its nonsense that. Southgate is taking loads of flack just for who he is.

ie. a failed manager

I want to see him succeed and long to be proven wrong on his abilities.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:23 pm

aggi wrote:Pope's playing well but you do have to wonder how he'd look if he wasn't behind the Burnley back 4.

There was a video knocking around recently of how the Burnley defenders act to narrow the shooting opportunities when the opposition get into attacking positions. The result was that far more shots end up going close to the keeper making the saves easier. It's also why we seem to be defying the "expected goals" statistics as we line up to block shots.

Lets all just imagine how good England could be with a back 5 from Burnley and the attacking options being the best English players from Spurs; Man City; Liverpool et al...

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:41 pm

aggi wrote:Pope's playing well but you do have to wonder how he'd look if he wasn't behind the Burnley back 4

Take 3 of the back 4 as well then

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:48 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Lets all just imagine how good England could be with a back 5 from Burnley and the attacking options being the best English players from Spurs; Man City; Liverpool et al...

I would love to see Bert Firminho, Steve Aguero and Mick Salah make the squad

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:53 pm

JohnMac wrote:I would love to see Bert Firminho, Steve Aguero and Mick Salah make the squad

Like it

its only what Germany have done, and France for that matter...

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:43 pm

gc14 wrote:We are all used to the usual " pick players on form not reputation " comments from England managers but when it comes down to it i still expect to see Hart, Wilshere, Henderson, Wellbeck,Jones, Smalling etc make the plane

Wilshere and Henderson deserve their place and as much as I donf rate them so do Jones and Smalling.

Hart cant go because he isnt playing. But as a third choice, unlikely to need to play you could understand the logic in taking your most capped and tournament experienced goalkeeper as third choice. For what its worth I wouldnt take him and dont think he will go. But you could understand why he might go. Especially given the lack of experience of pretty much everyone else.

Heaton was exposed massively for England. I suspect the same would be true of Pope unless he had our system in front of him (which against Belgium for example wouldnt necessarily be a bad approach).

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:48 pm

How was Heaton exposed massively for England?

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:00 am

A strong argument that England should play more like Burnley, i.e.two holding midfielders and the full backs told to remember defensive duties.

I don’t think England are good enough at the back otherwise.

If they are to play like Burnley, they could do a lot worse than Tarks and Pope in the squad. I would start them both against somebody like Holland. Sink or swim. If they excel, a great chance of starting in Russia. Got to leave out the has beens. We know what will happen with them.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:05 am

Damo wrote:How was Heaton exposed massively for England?

Most of the goals he let in were shots from unmarked opponents 6 yards out.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:09 am

He was given nowhere near the protection or support he gets for Burnley even in the limited time he played.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:15 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:He was given nowhere near the protection or support he gets for Burnley even in the limited time he played.

Sorry, I took your comment well out of context.
Yes you are correct

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:19 am

Damo wrote:Sorry, I took your comment well out of context.
Yes you are correct

Not a criticism of Heaton Per se who is the best goalkeeper ive seen for us.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:19 am

Pope has to be the PL's find of the season. Should be in the squad if nothing else.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:28 am

The thing with England, and as much as I despise buzz labels like sweeper keeper, seeing how well Ederson works for Man City, will Southgate be looking for a keeper who is good with the ball at his feet?
I don't think Pope is great in that area. The rest of his game is as good as anyone's at the moment

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:28 am

it will be Hart, Butland and Pickford

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:58 am

Pickford is small and agile like Schmeichel.

Bit of a problem in the Premier League with many teams crossing the ball with tall players.

Not so much on the continent with maybe the exception of Italy.

I don't think there's going to be many World cup teams playing for crosses.

ChrisG · Post by **ChrisG** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:51 am

superdimitri wrote:Pickford is small and agile like Schmeichel.

Schmeichel was about 6'4" and 17 stone. Fantastic keeper but he's not exactly small.

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:22 am

ChrisG wrote:
Schmeichel was about 6'4" and 17 stone. Fantastic keeper but he's not exactly small.

Think he means Kasper. He’s 6 1” and just under 12 stone.

Small for a keeper.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:01 am

Frank wasn't a keeper.

Sutton-Claret · Post by **Sutton-Claret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:53 am

Vegas Claret wrote:it will be Hart, Butland and Pickford

Hart shouldn't be anywhere near the team - he's let in an average of 2.1 goals per game this season. Pope is the in-form player and tops the stats at 0.8 goals per game.

I really hope Southgate goes for form rather than experience - he may as well take Peter Shilton

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:54 am

If Pope doesn`t get picked for the next set of `friendlies` he might as well pack his cases and ready himself for a holiday in Florida over the summer. There is NO reason whatsoever for him not to be picked. He has arguably been the best English keeper in the Premier League this season. If a player showing his form is overlooked, then Southgate should hang his head in shame.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:59 am

Chester Perry wrote:and that is why Tom has looked not quite so good when he has played for England, like Keane is finding and both Tarks and Pope would too - without the framework and the whole squad committing to it - it is a very different game and they are not there yet.

And as far as Pope has had a great season for us - his distribution from a moving ball alone would discount him from international football at this time - it can be worked on and has improved but not by enough yet, no matter how far he can kick the ball.

Do you consider Pope`s distribution a bigger problem for keeper than, let`s say, a glaring inability to save a shot from more than 16 yards, down to your left, like Hart? Is it more worrying than a keeper who bleeds goals and has no command in his box, a la Pickford?

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Hiroshima

I am more Burnley than England - Pope isn't ready on a number of fronts and as Hart has found out to his cost weaknesses will be identified and targeted ruthlessly, and the backlash from the media and Nation if he makes a mistake could destroy him before he begins to develop (like it has with a vastly more experienced Hart) - as a keeper he is 5 - 7 years from his peak.

Oh and a fair number of goals against Pope are to his left also

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:32 pm

if either gets called up we will have more of an issue keeping hold of them

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:51 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Oh and a fair number of goals against Pope are to his left also

And the rest to his right. Got any stats?