Blue Passports to be made in France

[Damo]

And you go back to completely fabricating reasons behind accusations of racism from someone you disagree with politically. Oh, wait, i see you already did.

Their jobs don't matter to Leave voters. We both know why.

[bedfords]

The intelligentsia has arrived

Been busy making sure that I can easily feed my family rather than crying like a brainflake on a football forum that I struggle to do so. Boo hoo

[RingoMcCartney]

What if the tiny minority is places like Burnley though Ringo?

Thats been my issue from Day One.

As you know lancs Burnley voted Leave.

Like the pattern of common feeling of opinion that came through again and again, on BBCs Question Time last night. You should now move on from Day One.

The majority of the country already has.

[CrosspoolClarets]

And this is what Brexit's all about - a minority of people feeling a bit of a buzz, despite the dire economic consequences for everyone.

Again, UTB, I agree with outsourcing passports but the above isn’t what economic consequences mean. I think you mean financial consequences, which is different.

I was pointing out that under EU tender rules (most pertinently a bit the UK lobbied for) other factors can be taken into account such as social factors when making an economic judgement. That typical means workers (I.e. not being produced in a sweatshop) but could mean customers too, hence the buzz comment. It could mean security has to be a factor (we have less control over dodgy terrorists getting their hands on our passport data if produced overseas).

Nonetheless I do agree that in this case they need to be outsourced and the overseas firm should have won it (though arguable all production should have been insisted to be done in the UK). There is also a good argument for checking to see if nationalising it within the Home Office and thus bypassing tender needs, could be cheaper as well as more secure. That’s what the French do.

[Lancasterclaret]

The full on, **** you common sense no deal is no longer a danger.

We've got the softest of soft Brexits.

Thats fine with me, but if people like me (and millions of others) hadn't said that was going to be a disaster from day one, who knows where we would be?

The Hard Brexit has been banished into the past where it belongs, which is why Farage and JRM are so annoyed at the moment.

We have left, but we are still very closely aligned to our natural allies and neighbours.

I'm happy with that.

[Damo]

Been busy making sure that I can easily feed my family rather than crying like a brainflake on a football forum that I struggle to do so. Boo hoo

Quite a bit of irony in that comment if I do say.
And what's a brainflake? Is that what you feed them for breakfast?

[RingoMcCartney]

The full on, **** you common sense no deal is no longer a danger.

We've got the softest of soft Brexits.

Thats fine with me, but if people like me (and millions of others) hadn't said that was going to be a disaster from day one, who knows where we would be?

The Hard Brexit has been banished into the past where it belongs, which is why Farage and JRM are so annoyed at the moment.

We have left, but we are still very closely aligned to our natural allies and neighbours.

I'm happy with that.

If your happy Lancs, then Ringos happy!

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

You can't.

But you can watch Faisal Islam's Sky news reports on the Brexit talks.

Hope that helps.

I don't watch Sky News.

Worst news channel going, but only slightly worse than BBC News.

It's great for certain types of people, because all they get is validation of their already skewed opinions.

I wouldn't trust them on anything political, it's all manipulated information.

[RingoMcCartney]

I don't watch Sky News.

Worst news channel going, but only slightly worse than BBC News.

It's great for certain types of people, because all they get is validation of their already skewed opinions.

I wouldn't trust them on anything political, it's all manipulated information.

By and large, I have to agree with you, to be honest.

[evensteadiereddie]

Remainers superior IQ on show here with all the child like insults

Bless, he does try.

Talking of IQ, it's "Remainer's" or "Remainers' ", depending on the number you're blathering about and "childlike".

You're welcome.

[Damo]

Bless, he does try.

Talking of IQ, it's "Remainer's" or "Remainers' ", depending on the number you're blathering about and "childlike".

You're welcome.

You don't think IQ and spelling/punctuation are linked do you eddy?
Surely an intellectual, ex school teacher would realise the mistake you have made wouldn't they?
(I scored in the top 1% on the mensa, culture fair test without writing a single word)

[claretandy]

The full on, **** you common sense no deal is no longer a danger.

We've got the softest of soft Brexits.

Thats fine with me, but if people like me (and millions of others) hadn't said that was going to be a disaster from day one, who knows where we would be?

The Hard Brexit has been banished into the past where it belongs, which is why Farage and JRM are so annoyed at the moment.

We have left, but we are still very closely aligned to our natural allies and neighbours.

I'm happy with that.

Out of the single market
out of the customs union
out of the ECJ
out of the CAP
out of the CFP
End of free movement.

soft brexit it is then.

[Lancasterclaret]

Interested to see what news channels, papers and blogs are saying that Andy.

I have to be honest, all the political stuff is noticeably not saying any of that.

[aggi]

The fact that it could NEVER have gone outside the EU shows why the EU is increasingly old-fashioned.

Out of curiosity, why could it have not gone outside the EU. Is there some special restriction on passports or identity documents?

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Any advance on halfmanhalfbiscuit being a bit red faced over a piece of paper?

Yes because that was my only concern.
Nothing to do with the rules of play being changed.
Nothing to do with my children suddenly being treated differently.

[claretandy]

Breaking News

Remoaner Owen Smith has been sacked by Jezza for daring to call for a second referendum, well done Jezza, what a good brexiteer you are

[Stayingup]

You'll have to net off the unemployment benefits for the working class British workers forced onto the dole.

Plus Corporation taxes not paid.

[Imploding Turtle]

Plus sales taxes not paid thanks to reduced incomes. (Because corporations being double taxed is super bad, say the politicians that they own, but not people)

[Rowls]

We already trade with those countries. If there was a better deal available from them, there's nothing stopping us getting it now.

I don't think you understand how the EU works. The contract for the new passports was according to EU laws, hence going to an EU country.

We are not allowed to strike trade deals with any of these countries whilst we remain in the EU. We trade with them -yes- but it is not Free Trade. The EU places tariffs on their goods. Tariffs we do not (and cannot) control until we leave the EU.

Out of curiosity, why could it have not gone outside the EU. Is there some special restriction on passports or identity documents?

Because the EU is not a Free Trade group - it is a customs union. Free trade is allowed within the group but not outside of it. Do you not imagine China could undercut any EU country? Of course it could.

[Tall Paul]

The EU has agreed a free trade agreement with Japan, so free trade is "allowed" outside the EU.

These countries you mentioned haven't agreed free trade deals with the biggest free trading bloc in the world, what makes you think they'll agree to trade freely with us once were outside that bloc?

[Lancasterclaret]

Rowls, you are (not for the first time) a bit out of your depth here.

You are parrotting along like you think you are talking to a room full of Brexiteers who will cheer your every word.

Past experience suggests that you will be "doing a Murger after a Burnley win" and " losing my log in details".

[nil_desperandum]

Out of the single market
out of the customs union
out of the ECJ
out of the CAP
out of the CFP
End of free movement.

soft brexit it is then.

No wonder JRM, Farage, Cash, etc are all over the moon then with what has recently been agreed, or maybe I misread that bit?
(None of the above now seem likely tbh)

[evensteadiereddie]

You don't think IQ and spelling/punctuation are linked do you eddy?
Surely an intellectual, ex school teacher would realise the mistake you have made wouldn't they?
(I scored in the top 1% on the mensa, culture fair test without writing a single word)

I have to say, Damo, you hide your so-called intelligence beautifully well on here, reducing your er, talent to either agreeing slavishly with the idiot McCartney, merely parroting the views of other Brexiteers or, if absolutely desperate, passing off the Sun's editorial column for the day as words of your own.
Perhaps it is your lack of communication skills or dearth of Emotional Intelligence which let you down and lead you to fall flat on your face.
I do happen to think that an adult purporting to have a serious view on an issue ought to have mastered the basic literacy skills before publishing their thoughts, however feeble, in public.
No offence meant, just saying.

[Rowls]

The EU has agreed a free trade agreement with Japan, so free trade is "allowed" outside the EU.

These countries you mentioned haven't agreed free trade deals with the biggest free trading bloc in the world, what makes you think they'll agree to trade freely with us once were outside that bloc?

It's funny what you read isn't it?

That "trade agreement" with Japan was announced by the EU with a lot of fanfare. And it apparently teaches a lesson to people like me who say the EU are useless at getting these deals agreed.

But has the EU actually struck a trade deal with Japan?

Answer: No.

There is NOT a trade deal with Japan. And certainly NOT a FREE trade agreement.

Here's the explanation from the Spectator:

"here’s the snag: there isn’t, actually, a deal. It’s an ‘outline,’ a ‘political’ agreement, the sort that is the basis for a deal – a staging post to a deal that may or may not be done in two years’ time. The EU has simply said that it is prepared, in principle, to lower the 10pc tariff slapped on Japanese cars, in exchange for being able to export food more easily. So it’s a cars-for-cheese agreement, the first stage towards a free trade deal. With plenty ground left to cover.

For example, there’s no agreement on…

How to resolve trade disputes – a fairly major part of any trade deal. The EU wants a court system, Japan doesn’t.
How to settle any complaint from foreign investors that their rights are being violated.
What protection Abe would offer to Japanese producers of pork, wood and dairy products.
The sale of illegal logging products
What kind of protection would be covered to Europe’s car manufacturing sector.
All this will take until 2019 and it then it needs to be approved by all 28 (or, by that time, 27) member states. And then tariffs will likely stay in place for a further seven years – so even if all goes well we’re looking at about another ten years before it would come off.

So: a EU-Japan deal? Not yet, and not for some time yet. It’s essentially a progress report on talks, dressed up as a deal...""

So there you have it.

edit - link:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/e ... ust-stunt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rowls]

The EU has agreed a free trade agreement with Japan, so free trade is "allowed" outside the EU.

These countries you mentioned haven't agreed free trade deals with the biggest free trading bloc in the world, what makes you think they'll agree to trade freely with us once were outside that bloc?

Hi Tall Paul

See above for the correction to your false belief in a non-existent "trade agreement" with Japan. Particularly a "FREE trade agreement" with Japan.

As for the other trade deals we can strike after Brexit, why would other countries deal with us when they haven't deal with "the biggest free trading bloc in the world"?

Before I answer, it's important to note that the EU is certainly NOT a "Free Trade bloc" - trade within the bloc may appear free but that is after countries have paid their bills to the EU. 'Free Trade' is a term used to describe a lack of tariffs but this is not correct with the EU - it places large tariffs on goods going in and out of the bloc. That is why it is much more accurately described as a "customs union" than a "free trade bloc".

How can we strike deal when 28 conjoined countries have failed?

This is very, very simple. You don't strike trade deals based on how many countries you are representing.

The fact that the EU represents 28 countries is a very big weakness in negotiating trade. Any single one of those countries can veto a trade deal. If just ONE of those countries elects a protectionist president, has a current election going on, etc etc then a trade deal gets vetoed.

How can we negotiate a trade deal when 27 other countries have failed?

Answer: Much more easily because we won't have to get 27 different countries to agree on EVERYTHING once our deal has been struck. This is the reason why tiny countries like Iceland have been able to strike deals the EU is incapable of.

[Rowls]

FWIW Tall Paul I don't blame you for falling for the spin on this one and believing what has been put in front of you.

Take a look at these BBC headlines:

"EU agrees biggest free trade deal with Japan"

and

"EU and Japan reach free trade deal"

Not at all unreasonable to assume the EU and Japan had a 'free trade deal' of some sorts.

From the first article:
"The European Union and Japan have agreed terms for a free trade deal set to create the world's biggest open economic area.
The deal - the largest struck by the EU - is expected to liberalise almost all trade between the bloc and the world's third-largest economy."

The words "set to" and "expected" are the only suggestions here of the actual truth - that the deal has NOT been agreed. This is really shoddy business journalism and it's very misleading.

From the second article:
"The European Union and Japan have formally agreed an outline free-trade deal.
The agreement paves the way for trading in goods without tariff barriers between two of the world's biggest economic areas."

Here the fact that it is just an "outline" deal tells you all you need to know. It hasn't been signed, it simply "paves the way". Not quite as misleading as the other article but extremely misleading all the same.

[aggi]

Because the EU is not a Free Trade group - it is a customs union. Free trade is allowed within the group but not outside of it. Do you not imagine China could undercut any EU country? Of course it could.

That's not really an explanation why it could NEVER have gone outside the EU. Many contracts do go outside the EU which you seem to think is impossible.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Non EU companies bidding for tenders is a bit murky but rules do not prevent it.

As I understand it, it depends on the country. If a country is deemed to be protectionist and doesn’t accept EU companies bidding there, what they call “buy local” policies, the EU can stick a price adjustment on the tender submission. In effect, a tariff. One that may lose it the tender.

I would think that free trade agreements, deals, whatever, would have worked through that minefield and those countries can then have companies bidding freely (and consumers buying individual items without tariffs).

I think we have to be careful not to imagine dodgy stuff everywhere we look with the EU, because that does the EU a favour and distracts attention from the truly murky stuff that we should focus on - like Juncker’s buddy Selmayr getting the top job, and the subjective cultural things that we all disagree on - like whether FOM is a good thing. The EU is not Russia, China or the Middle East. It is generally decent even though many of us feel it has lost its way.

The passport thing seemed fair enough, though as I said above, in a matter critical to national security, I would have wanted them processed and printed in the UK under very strict rules, because other countries policies are outwith our control (even within the EU before we leave).

[Damo]

I have to say, Damo, you hide your so-called intelligence beautifully well on here, reducing your er, talent to either agreeing slavishly with the idiot McCartney, merely parroting the views of other Brexiteers or, if absolutely desperate, passing off the Sun's editorial column for the day as words of your own.
Perhaps it is your lack of communication skills or dearth of Emotional Intelligence which let you down and lead you to fall flat on your face.
I do happen to think that an adult purporting to have a serious view on an issue ought to have mastered the basic literacy skills before publishing their thoughts, however feeble, in public.
No offence meant, just saying.

None taken.
I'm not the type of person to get upset because a building site labourer pulled me up on my spelling and grammar.
The rest of your post was nonsense

[Lancasterclaret]

I don't think the argument put forward by Rowls is going to help convince anyone that the UK can negotiate the 750+ free trade deals that it currently uses under the umbrella of the EU, and all the new ones that we are most definitely going to need.

Its going to have to be one a day.

Just think about that for a second. One legally binding, all problem solving free trade deal a day.

No wonder people take the **** about Unicorns.

[evensteadiereddie]

None taken.
I'm not the type of person to get upset because a building site labourer pulled me up on my spelling and grammar.
The rest of your post was nonsense

Such a snob !
Aye, an "intellectual" - your word not mine - building site labourer who can put a sentence together and ensure its spelling is correct.
You can't.
The rest of my post highlighting your inability to think for yourself was indeed accurate if a little harsh on you.
Must try harder, as the school reports used to say.

[Damo]

Such a snob !
Aye, an "intellectual" - your word not mine - building site labourer who can put a sentence together and ensure its spelling is correct.
You can't.
The rest of my post highlighting your inability to think for yourself was indeed accurate if a little harsh on you.
Must try harder, as the school reports used to say.

All views posted by me are my own.
If you think otherwise, feel free to link my comments with the supposed source.
I'll wait for an example before considering this to just be one of your many, angry outbursts

[evensteadiereddie]

No comma required between your "many" and "angry", Damo.

Why should I be angry about any silly comment you make on a football message board ?
I offer my responses which you can take or leave, I don't care either way.
To even begin to think that anything you and your chums have to say makes me angry is extremely arrogant.
Don't flatter yourself, kid, you're not bright enough to even interest me, never mind annoy me.


Have fun.

[Paul Waine]

I don't think the argument put forward by Rowls is going to help convince anyone that the UK can negotiate the 750+ free trade deals that it currently uses under the umbrella of the EU, and all the new ones that we are most definitely going to need.

Its going to have to be one a day.

Just think about that for a second. One legally binding, all problem solving free trade deal a day.

Hi Lancs, how does the EU end up with 750+ free trade deals - when there's at most only 200 countries in the world, and some of them are pretty small?

My guess is that a lot of these deals are "Individual products" or groups of products. Has UK Gov't said that we need 750+ ftas to "replicate" the current 750+ ftas that the EU has? Or, is it possible that a few of these ftas are irrlevant to the UK? i.e. we don't export what the other country buys and vice versa?

However, if I was asked to sign 750+ ftas - maybe based on existing 750+ EU ftas, I think I'd start with a set of proirities, for both the UK and the other party(ies) to the agreement. Then I'd ask both parties, does a simple "copy over" from the existing EU fta work, probably with some modifications to the quantities? I might then think how long is the list now....

Maybe this should be the basis for a GCSE maths question: if one country wants to sign 750 ftas and it takes one negotiator 100 days to agree each fta and the country wants to complete the ftas within 500 days (or however many days from 31-March-2019 to 31-Dec-2020) how many fta negotiators do I need.

Students should assume EU working time directive applies, and the average sickness absence record of a UK civil servant is 10 days per annum. And, fta negotiators have 30 days holiday per annum, plus usual bank holidays.

Candidates can ignore maternity leave and paternity leave entitlements plus urgent carers/dependent days.

The A-level version of this question could ask the same question without these simplifying assumptions.

Marks will be awarded for correct grammar.

[Paul Waine]

Anyway back to Blue Passports. I for one will be proud to have my UK passport printed in France - in honour of Arnaud Beltrame, a truly remarkable French police office who died giving his life to save others in Trèbes.

From BBC:

Tributes are pouring in for a French police officer who died saving the lives of hostages in a supermarket siege by an Islamist gunman on Friday.
Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame, 44, was shot and stabbed after he traded places with one of the captives following a shooting spree in southern France.
Flags are being flown at half-mast at gendarmerie bases across France.
His brother Cedric said Col Arnaud "didn't have a chance", adding that his actions were "beyond the call of duty".
"He gave his life for strangers. He must have known that he didn't really have a chance. If that doesn't make him a hero, I don't know what would," Col Arnaud's brother Cedric told a French radio station on Saturday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43525267" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rowls]

That's not really an explanation why it could NEVER have gone outside the EU. Many contracts do go outside the EU which you seem to think is impossible.

No you're right, I was a bit OTT in saying 'never'. But it does explain the reasons all the same - any contract awarded outside the EU would necessarily be subject to EU tariffs and penalties.

[Rowls]

I don't think the argument put forward by Rowls is going to help convince anyone that the UK can negotiate the 750+ free trade deals that it currently uses under the umbrella of the EU, and all the new ones that we are most definitely going to need.

Its going to have to be one a day.

Just think about that for a second. One legally binding, all problem solving free trade deal a day.

No wonder people take the **** about Unicorns.

Hahahahaha!

You claim I'm lacking in credibility!

The current trade deals with have with the EU will simply continue as they are until we change them or if we choose to change them.

What on earth makes you think they will suddenly, overnight, cease to apply?

That's as daft as imagining that on day one of any new government they have to quickly write out ALL the laws of England into their best copy books so that the law still applies, lest anarchy break out.

[Walton]

The new French-made design has been released...

FB_IMG_1522075520220.jpg (101.43 KiB) Viewed 1777 times

[basil6345789]

Very good and not far from the truth - another great reason to keep our distance.