O/T Madeleine McCann

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:41 am

This may be controversial but how on earth can the investigation be given a further 150k of taxpayers money to continue this investigation??

Cuts are being made day in day out in the Police force.....

I don't mean to be insensitive but why are they not using their own money?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:10 am

I'm sure the police don't mind the extra holiday money.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:19 am

I still think one of the parents might have done it (accidentally).

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:15 am

box_of_frogs wrote:I still think one of the parents might have done it (accidentally).

Whoever has they've done well covering it up. Was extremely high profile for quite a while and since then has had a lot of money for continued investigation.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:35 am

I genuinely don't know to be honest.

What I do know that if one of my kids went missing and there was no trace, then I'd never stop looking and I'd want everything possible done for the rest of my life to find out.

Didn't it take decades to finally work out what happened to that poor kid in Greece?

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:42 am

My issue is the amount of taxpayers money that has been spent on it and the circumstances that brought it on....over 11 million spent....and yet officers are leaving in their droves due to cuts in funding....

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:42 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I genuinely don't know to be honest.

What I do know that if one of my kids went missing and there was no trace, then I'd never stop looking and I'd want everything possible done for the rest of my life to find out.

Didn't it take decades to finally work out what happened to that poor kid in Greece?

It's still all theoretical about Ben Needham isn't it?
They've got a pretty good idea, but it's never been confirmed because their main suspect is dead.

Completely different to the McCanns though, who left their children in a room alone whilst they went out, after they'd given them something to help them sleep.

Svenster · Post by **Svenster** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:45 am

I've taken quite an interest in this story over the years. If you want to understand more about the huge implications of what started as an (unfortunately) fairly common occurrence - you'll need to get your hands dirty by going to the internet for information.

The MSM have not told you the full story - indeed they are part of the ongoing obfuscation in this case. The current investigation (Op. Grange) are also involved in this mis-direction - as shown by their original 'terms of reference'.

Why successive governments are willing to fund this failure of an investigation to the tune of over 10 million of your tax money is the big story here. Huge corruption - from Prime Ministerial level down - is there to see if you take a few minutes to inform yourself.

(And if Carter Ruck or any other libel lawyer is watching, this is all just my opinion).

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:45 am

Well no, the kid is missing, which is the same.

I'm not defending the McCanns in anyway btw, you can't do that as a parent.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:46 am

Oh hell, someone just used MSM on here.

Thats the site gone to the dogs.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:47 am

I can't imagine they would have successfully got this extra money unless they thought they had new information to go off, but for obvious reasons the exact nature of that wouldn't be made public. Why has it been announced in the press though?

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:47 am

Karen Matthews must be gutted, if her copy-cat plan had worked she'd be have enough now for a lifetime's supply of scratch cards.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:10 am

A transcript of the interview from 7 September 2007 – three months after Madeleine disappeared in June – was included in extensive police files released to the public in 2008.

Ms McCann, a former GP, was told she was a suspect – or “arguido” – by Portuguese police and questioned in detail over an 11-hour period about the night Madeleine went missing.

She was asked about Madeleine’s relationship with her younger siblings, who are twins, her method of parenting and whether she routinely medicated her children.

The questions Ms McCann refused point blank to answer were:

1 On May 3, 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch?

2 Did you search inside the master bedroom wardrobe?

3 (Shown two photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?

4 Why was the curtain by the sofa near the side window tampered with? Did someone go behind the sofa?

5 How long did your search of the apartment take after you detected Madeleine’s disappearance?

6 Why did you say Madeleine had been abducted?

7 Assuming Madeleine was abducted, why did you leave the twins to go to the ‘Tapas’ and raise the alarm? The supposed abductor could still be in the apartment.

8 Why didn’t you ask the twins then what happened to their sister or why didn’t you ask them later on?

9 When you raised the alarm at the ‘Tapas’ what exactly did you say – what were your exact words?

10 What happened after you raised the alarm there?

11 Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?

12 Who contacted the authorities?

13 Who took place in the searches?

14 Did anyone outside the group learn of her disappearance in those following minutes?

15 Did any neighbour offer you help?

16 What does “we let her down” mean?

17 Did Jane Tanner tell you that night she’d seen a man with a child?

18 How were the authorities contacted and which police force was alerted?

19 During the searches, with the police there, where did you search for Maddie, how and in what way?

20 Why did the twins not wake up during that search or when they were taken upstairs?

21 Who did you phone after the occurrence?

22 Did you call Sky News?

23 Did you know the danger of calling the media, because it could influence the abductor?

24 Did you ask for a priest?

25 By what means did you divulge Madeleine’s features, by photographs or by any other means?

26 Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?

27 What was your behaviour that night?

28 Did you manage to sleep?

29 Before travelling to Portugal, did you make any comment about a foreboding or a bad feeling?

30 What was Madeleine’s behaviour like?

31 Did Maddie suffer from any illness or take any medication?

32 What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister?

33 What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister, friends and school mates?

34 As for your professional life, in how many and which hospitals have you worked?

35 What is your medical speciality?

36 Have you ever done shift work in any emergency services or other services?

37 Did you work every day?

38 At a certain point you stopped working. Why?

39 Are the twins difficult to get to sleep? Are they restless and does that cause you uneasiness?

40 Is it true sometimes you despaired at your children’s behaviour and it left you feeling very uneasy?

41 Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?

42 In England, did you medicate your children? What type of medication?

43 In the case files, you were shown canine forensic testing films. After watching them, did you say you couldn't explain any more than you already had?

44 When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

45 When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

46 When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

47 When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, carried out in a British lab, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

48 Did you have any responsibility or intervention in your daughter’s disappearance?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 10111.html

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:23 am

That’s very illuminating. It certainly raises suspicion about the involvement of Kate McCann in Maddie’s disappearance.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:26 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 10111.html

A family friend worked with them a few years back and had some very interesting things to say about their out of work hobbies. "Yew" could say it was a strange set up.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:26 am

box_of_frogs wrote:I still think one of the parents might have done it (accidentally).

They accidentally killed the child, and within an hour managed to get over their grief, work out a foolproof plan, think of a hiding place the police would never find, carry the body there, and get back to their dinner without their fellow guests noticing? Unlikely.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:27 am

box_of_frogs wrote:I still think one of the parents might have done it (accidentally).

Have always thought about this.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:31 am

dsr wrote:They accidentally killed the child, and within an hour managed to get over their grief, work out a foolproof plan, think of a hiding place the police would never find, carry the body there, and get back to their dinner without their fellow guests noticing? Unlikely.

When you eliminate the impossible.....

colne-claret · Post by **colne-claret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:32 am

dsr wrote:They accidentally killed the child, and within an hour managed to get over their grief, work out a foolproof plan, think of a hiding place the police would never find, carry the body there, and get back to their dinner without their fellow guests noticing? Unlikely.

Or call this guy?

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:32 am

Intelligent people and don't seem to react in the way you would expect. What kind of people leave a young child in a foreign country and go out for a meal and drinks. Not convinced they were not involved.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:33 am

BennyD wrote:That’s very illuminating. It certainly raises suspicion about the involvement of Kate McCann in Maddie’s disappearance.

She had already answered all those questions in the three months prior. Those questions are not an exhaustive list of what she was asked, they're just a cherry-picked sample chosen by someone who wanted to make her look guilty. She was treated as a suspect and refused to answer all questions during that particular interview.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:36 am

All this thread has done is convince me that its not a waste of money trying to find out what happened.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:37 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I genuinely don't know to be honest.

What I do know that if one of my kids went missing and there was no trace, then I'd never stop looking and I'd want everything possible done for the rest of my life to find out.

Didn't it take decades to finally work out what happened to that poor kid in Greece?

Agree entirely but if they know what happened and they continue to waste taxpayers money then that is doubly criminal. I personally believe and always have that they DO know what happened, the carefully stage managed post incident interviews were actually quite appalling in my view. At the very least they are guilty of gross negligence with regard to childcare, something that would have caused your average couple to be hung out to dry.
One final point and very valid: if Madeleine is still alive she is presumably living with someone else and because of her age at the time she won't even remember her parents. The question is, provided she is being well cared for, would it now be cruel to take her away from that life when she remembers no other? This has cropped up in many conversations I've had with people, including numerous social workers and at least one psychologist, and the general consensus is it would be. Of course there would be the argument about how whoever had her got hold of her. There has always been something 'not quite right' about the whole affair and I doubt if the truth will ever come out.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:44 am

Think finding her (or what happened to her) is still the priority though, and if she is living with someone else, then that horribly complicated and awful situation would have to be dealt with as and when we find out whether she is alive or not.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:53 am

The couple have very influential friends in high places. reeks of a cover up

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am

If the McCanns had anything to do with her disappearance why would they keep pushing for more and more police investigations when they would seem to have been ruled out of it? That wouldn't make sense if they were actually guilty.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:15 am

Playing a really good game aren't they?

Gosh, these conspiracy theories are a piece of ****!

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:23 am

dsr wrote:She had already answered all those questions in the three months prior. Those questions are not an exhaustive list of what she was asked, they're just a cherry-picked sample chosen by someone who wanted to make her look guilty. She was treated as a suspect and refused to answer all questions during that particular interview.

If my kid was missing, I sure as hell wouldn’t avoid answering any questions; the sooner I stopped being a suspect, the sooner the investigation focussed on the perpetrator. It also raises the question why did she refuse to answer the second time? Had she forgotten the finer details of a made up story?

Svenster · Post by **Svenster** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:32 am

BennyD wrote:If my kid was missing, I sure as hell wouldn’t avoid answering any questions; the sooner I stopped being a suspect, the sooner the investigation focussed on the perpetrator. It also raises the question why did she refuse to answer the second time? Had she forgotten the finer details of a made up story?

I believe the reason she refused to answer was because she didn't want to contradict anything her husband had said in his interview that that had taken place previously. There was also the infamous meeting of the Tapas 9 (and their lawyers) in Rothley after the return home.

Making sure they were all singing from the same hymn sheet? There is some very strange behavior from everyone associated with this case.

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:38 am

karatekid wrote:If the McCanns had anything to do with her disappearance why would they keep pushing for more and more police investigations when they would seem to have been ruled out of it? That wouldn't make sense if they were actually guilty.

I'm guessing you didn't major in psychology.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:46 am

Think a few people have been watching too many BBC crime dramas !!

There is a very logical common sense answer why they did not answer that last of questions - they were advised not to by the lawyers and had already provided answers previously.

The Portuguese police were not exactly the most competent of police forces in this case were they ?

I have no idea what happened that night and the parents in leaving their children did something that most of us would never do - but i’m sure they are by no means the only ones that have done this or still do this.

As for stories and rumours about the type of people the parents are its inevitable that this kind of stuff emerges for anyone who had had the media coverage they have. That’s just the way of the public. Sympathy soon turns into conspiracy theories and a twisted logic that there must be something dodgy about them.

Whatever theories, rumours etc people may have the one that makes most sense is that simply she was abducted.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:49 am

karatekid wrote:If the McCanns had anything to do with her disappearance why would they keep pushing for more and more police investigations when they would seem to have been ruled out of it? That wouldn't make sense if they were actually guilty.

Or are they in too deep that if the truth now comes out they will go to jail for a very long time!

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:52 am

TVC15 wrote:
The Portuguese police were not exactly the most competent of police forces in this case were they ?

The McCanns were not exactly the most competent of parents in this case

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:55 am

I have more confidence in the British Police than their counterparts. I can understand the strong emotion regarding the cost, but equally I could list the numerous projects/ costs that are wasted by this government at taxpayers expense. My own view is that the McCann's are innocent of any involvement but guilty of neglect. I'm sure we all hope Maddy can be found, unharmed.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:00 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:The McCanns were not exactly the most competent of parents in this case

No they weren’t I agree.
But that does not mean they deserved to lose their daughter and neither does it mean the Portuguese police handled it well.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:03 am

TVC15 wrote:No they weren’t I agree.
But that does not mean they deserved to lose their daughter and neither does it mean the Portuguese police handled it well.

They didn't deserve to lose their daughter but did so as a result of their actions.

Something they've never actually been punished for....(apart from never seeing their daughter again)

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:06 am

TVC15 wrote:No they weren’t I agree.
But that does not mean they deserved to lose their daughter

Yes, yes it does mean that. They did deserve to lose their daughter because they were bad at parenting. No parent should do what they did and not expect to lose their child in my opinion. Had a parent left a child alone in the UK and gone out to dinner and left the child home alone (and of course the child did not disappeared off the face of the earth) I think it would be negligent of the authorities to not take the child into care. The consequences in this case are that Madeleine has disappeared, and that is terrible.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:12 am

Sidney1st wrote:They didn't deserve to lose their daughter but did so as a result of their actions.

Something they've never actually been punished for....(apart from never seeing their daughter again)

When you say “apart from never seeing their daughter again” putting it in brackets does not make it a trivial punishment for them really does it ?

As said most of us would never leave their children alone but lots of people do this - especially when they are on holiday. I remember going on a horrible weekend at Butlins in Wales when my kids were little and we were in a small minority of parents who did not leave the kids alone at night !!

Let’s not forget whilst we are being outraged at the McCanns that somebody was out there with a sole objective of stealing children.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:14 am

TVC15 wrote:
Let’s not forget whilst we are being outraged at the McCanns that somebody was out there with a sole objective of stealing children.

This hasn't been proven, and is a little far-fetched

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:15 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Yes, yes it does mean that. They did deserve to lose their daughter because they were bad at parenting. No parent should do what they did and not expect to lose their child in my opinion. Had a parent left a child alone in the UK and gone out to dinner and left the child home alone (and of course the child did not disappeared off the face of the earth) I think it would be negligent of the authorities to not take the child into care. The consequences in this case are that Madeleine has disappeared, and that is terrible.

We’ll have to agree to disagree there Rick.
I am in no way saying what they did was right - very clearly it was not. But there would be a hell of a lot of children being taken into care if all the people who leave their children alone on holiday were dealt with by the authorities in the way you are proposing.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:18 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:This hasn't been proven, and is a little far-fetched

You mean it’s far fetched that she was abducted but not far fetched that the parents killed her, got rid of the body and have then been pretending to look for her for the last 10 years ?

Ok.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:24 am

TVC15 wrote:We’ll have to agree to disagree there Rick.
I am in no way saying what they did was right - very clearly it was not. But there would be a hell of a lot of children being taken into care if all the people who leave their children alone on holiday were dealt with by the authorities in the way you are proposing.

Yeah we’ll probably have to disagree, but what has being on holiday got to do with it? I asked what would happen in the UK if a parent left their child home alone and went out to dinner - the likely outcome, if discovered, is that the authorities would take the child into care, I.e. they would lose their child. Granted, it may only be for a night or two in most cases but certainly I would expect the care services to intervene.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:24 am

It's extremely far-fetched that there was a child snatcher on the prowl in a well-populated holiday resort with no history of previous child abductions, a child snatcher who seemingly broke into an apartment not knowing who would be inside, and abducted the largest one of the three sedated children in the apartment.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:33 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Yeah we’ll probably have to disagree, but what has being on holiday got to do with it? I asked what would happen in the UK if a parent left their child home alone and went out to dinner - the likely outcome, if discovered, is that the authorities would take the child into care, I.e. they would lose their child. Granted, it may only be for a night or two in most cases but certainly I would expect the care services to intervene.

What’s going on holiday got to do with it ?
Well just the fact that they were on holiday and I know that people do this on holiday who don’t necessarily do this at home.

I am not saying you should ever do this whilst on holiday or at home. I would never have dreamed of it and think it is extremely negligent, selfish and stupid of anyone who does. And I also agree that they should be prosecuted if caught.

All I am saying is that I do not believe that a suitable punishment is for them to lose their children for ever. You are saying on one hand that they should lose their children for a night or 2 but on the other hand saying the McCanns deserved to lose their daughter for ever.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:36 am

I'm always very suspicious of conspiracy theories and there's nothing I've read so far that I buy into which makes the McCann's guilty of anything other than poor parenting. Some people are talking like it's an establishment cover up, the McCanns are a couple of middle class Doctors, I doubt they have sufficient reach or influence to get British law enforcement to hush this one up.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:37 am

There is a time and a place to be rational Sammy, and a thread on Madeline McCann is not it.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:40 am

Perfectly rational to think they may be involved somehow. You just don't agree that they are.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:42 am

TVC15 wrote:When you say “apart from never seeing their daughter again” putting it in brackets does not make it a trivial punishment for them really does it ?

As said most of us would never leave their children alone but lots of people do this - especially when they are on holiday. I remember going on a horrible weekend at Butlins in Wales when my kids were little and we were in a small minority of parents who did not leave the kids alone at night !!

Let’s not forget whilst we are being outraged at the McCanns that somebody was out there with a sole objective of stealing children.

I didn't say it was trivial.

Anyone else would've potentially lost custody of their other kids, because leaving all your kids drugged up in a hotel room whilst the parents go out is actually child neglect, that was my point which you've missed.

If they'd been with their kids then no one could've stolen one of them...

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:46 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:It's extremely far-fetched that there was a child snatcher on the prowl in a well-populated holiday resort with no history of previous child abductions, a child snatcher who seemingly broke into an apartment not knowing who would be inside, and abducted the largest one of the three sedated children in the apartment.

Of course the resort has no history of child abductions - if it did it would not be the most popular destinations would it ?

Portugal does have a history of child abductions, however, and a holiday resort would be a logical place to target. There is no security and some parents on holiday do leave their children alone at night.

What the hell abducting the largest child has got to do with it I ain’t got a clue - she was still a little girl.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:47 am

To those of you calling for this investigation to be ended....

If your relatives went on holiday to the same place and your child / grand child went missing, I am pretty sure you would be shouting "why wasn't this investigated to the fullest last time?"