Jack Wilshere

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:01 am

Apparently could have made an inpact...

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... -world-cup" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...and on the bbc team selector for the World Cup...

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GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:02 am

Impact when he hit the floor injured?

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:06 am

This is what management is about. Southgate has gone up in my book.It is a refreshing change for England to actually pick form players and to think more about the system instead of recalling the old guard that have failed.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:09 am

Good article by Martin Samuel in the Daily mail about Southgate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... touch.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:12 am

I've kept an open mind about Southgate but he does seem to be a breath of fresh air and I'm not saying this because he's picking Burnley players. He is, as has been pointed out, picking form players and appears on the face of it to not pick players just because they 'normally would play'. Leaving Hart at home was a great decision.

I really hope we do well this time and I haven't felt that enthusiastic for a long time. I don't think we are the finished article and we probably won't grace the final but I do feel more confident with Southgate at the helm.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:20 am

You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:28 am

Chobulous wrote:You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.

Any thoughts on Jack Wilshere though?

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:41 am

Jack Wilshere's reaction to being left out is exactly why he shouldn't have been in the team.

Absolutely pathetic. Reacting like a 14 year old lad, shameful.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:44 am

He's poking fun at himself to make him look a good sport and all that.

Deep down though, him and his Mr Ego boyfriend will both be livid.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:45 am

Is it just me that thinks he's taking the **** out of himself?

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 am

He runs like a 36 year old now, like his legs have gone. Which is possibly understandable given his injuries, or maybe it's the lifestyle. Either way, he's a bit of a tool and his best days sadly appear to already be long gone.

As Chobulous said, another that 'could have been a contender'.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:59 am

Goobs wrote:Any thoughts on Jack Wilshere though?

Whoosh

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Fri May 18, 2018 11:03 am

Can’t see anything wrong in that. He’s not gonna come out and say I’m **** and Southgate is spot on. He’s said he’ll be supporting the lads. Fair play to him.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Fri May 18, 2018 11:27 am

He’s a class act and should have gone. Southgate contradicts himself when he talks about only taking in form players who regularly play for their teams. Oh, like Cahill, Stones and Delph I suppose. Wilshire has played a great deal for Arsenal this year and played well, standing out in a midfield consisting of players like Ozil, Xhaka and Ramsay. He should be going.

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Fri May 18, 2018 11:29 am

dermotdermot wrote:He’s a class act and should have gone. Southgate contradicts himself when he talks about only taking in form players who regularly play for their teams. Oh, like Cahill, Stones and Delph I suppose. Wilshire has played a great deal for Arsenal this year and played well, standing out in a midfield consisting of players like Ozil, Xhaka and Ramsay. He should be going.

Hahahahaha

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri May 18, 2018 11:33 am

dermotdermot wrote:He’s a glass act and would have got injured.

fixed that fore you

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri May 18, 2018 11:44 am

Now Joe Hart wades in https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44163416

typical of the entitlement culture among England's senior players.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Fri May 18, 2018 11:53 am

Could come to haunt us, one of him or Lallana should be going for me. Out of Dier, Henderson, Loftus-Cheek, Delph and Alli you've not really got that many options when you're playing 2 CMs deep (as seems to be preferred) or a 3 with 2 deep. Delph and Alli haven't played in the centre of a midfield this season. Loftus-Cheek could power through some teams but there's not a lot of craft there to pick a way through a side that's set up to defend (Tunisia and Panama). Wilshere would be a very good option from the bench in certain situations when you need to create a goal (coming on for Dier for example), Lallana's in the same bracket. What's Welbeck going to do differently to whoever he's coming on for? What's Vardy without a Mahrez?

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Fri May 18, 2018 12:19 pm

lucs86 wrote:Could come to haunt us, one of him or Lallana should be going for me. Out of Dier, Henderson, Loftus-Cheek, Delph and Alli you've not really got that many options when you're playing 2 CMs deep (as seems to be preferred) or a 3 with 2 deep. Delph and Alli haven't played in the centre of a midfield this season. Loftus-Cheek could power through some teams but there's not a lot of craft there to pick a way through a side that's set up to defend (Tunisia and Panama). Wilshere would be a very good option from the bench in certain situations when you need to create a goal (coming on for Dier for example), Lallana's in the same bracket. What's Welbeck going to do differently to whoever he's coming on for? What's Vardy without a Mahrez?

Although I agree with what you're saying I believe Southgate is picking his squad based on the system he wants to play. Losing Oxlade-Chamberlain will have been a blow to him I'm sure. He seems to want to have three fast, attack minded players pushing on from midfield (Sterling, The Ox and Lingard for example) in support of Kane up front. Wilshere fits neither the profile of a defensive midfielder or a pacey attacking one. Also, it could be suggested that he's not the most professional of footballers out there. Southgate wants a togetherness in his group and no big time Charlie's to rock the boat. Going to Russia without Hart, Wilshere and Rooney could turn out to be an absolute masterstroke.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri May 18, 2018 12:28 pm

Both Wilshere and Hart should have just kept quite apart from showing full support for Southgate and the squad for the tournament. They'll be plenty of time for them to critique the performance after the event but, as usual, they are joining in with the expected media outcry that "England are Sh!t" even before a ball is kicked.

I don't normally bother with the national team, but his squad selection has been brave and different enough for me to watch our games and take an interest. We will probably lose in the first round of knockouts, but there may also be a chance that the team will play as a team with no real prima donnas in there and actually go quite far.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Fri May 18, 2018 12:35 pm

He's played over 30 games this season so he's fit, more games than Delph for example (and actually in CM as opposed to left back). For me, one of Wilshire, Lallana or Shelvey should've gone to Russia. We don't have much in the way of players who can pick a pass in that squad, so despite having Kane, Rashford, Sterling etc who are all dangerous - if you don't get the ball to them in good situations it's useless. There's zero guile in that midfield whatsoever. He might not be the player he could've been, but Wilshire would've offered something off the bench at least. That said out of the three I'd have probably gone for Shelvey I think.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri May 18, 2018 12:39 pm

willsclarets wrote:That said out of the three I'd have probably gone for Shelvey I think.

thats a fair appraisal, and I would agree about Shelvey out of what we have in all honesty, but the squad has been picked and now its time to support them.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Fri May 18, 2018 12:50 pm

Doesn't matter how good you are - if your attitude isn't right you can sod off. The fact he repeatedly shunned friendlies (probably expecting to be a dead cert for being on the plane) is enough to prove he shouldn't be considered when important games matter

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Fri May 18, 2018 12:51 pm

jlup1980 wrote:Although I agree with what you're saying I believe Southgate is picking his squad based on the system he wants to play. Losing Oxlade-Chamberlain will have been a blow to him I'm sure. He seems to want to have three fast, attack minded players pushing on from midfield (Sterling, The Ox and Lingard for example) in support of Kane up front. Wilshere fits neither the profile of a defensive midfielder or a pacey attacking one. Also, it could be suggested that he's not the most professional of footballers out there. Southgate wants a togetherness in his group and no big time Charlie's to rock the boat. Going to Russia without Hart, Wilshere and Rooney could turn out to be an absolute masterstroke.

That system seems like the best option we've got with the players available (fit, able and in decent enough form), but it's only 1 option. We'll probably only have a handful of games, if a team can suss that system out defensively or just keep 10 men deep and behind the ball, it's going to be hard for us to find a different way with more of the same on the bench. I've got this idea that we'll be chasing and Dier and Henderson are going to have way too much of the ball with no idea what to do with it apart from keep going sideways. Wilshere's touch in the middle of the park gets him round people in tight spaces and opens things up. Lallana's had trouble finishing but often looked our best player in qualifying (against poor teams defending a lot i.e. Tunisia and Panama). 20 outfield players should contain a plan B for me.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Fri May 18, 2018 1:10 pm

willsclarets wrote:He's played over 30 games this season so he's fit, more games than Delph for example (and actually in CM as opposed to left back). For me, one of Wilshire, Lallana or Shelvey should've gone to Russia. .

Has Wilshere played 30 games for the full 90 mins or does that 30 appearances comprise of sub appearances and partial games?

Also, how many games has he stood out over the likes of Ozil, Ramsey etc?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Fri May 18, 2018 1:11 pm

dermotdermot wrote:He’s a class act and should have gone. Southgate contradicts himself when he talks about only taking in form players who regularly play for their teams. Oh, like Cahill, Stones and Delph I suppose. Wilshire has played a great deal for Arsenal this year and played well, standing out in a midfield consisting of players like Ozil, Xhaka and Ramsay. He should be going.

Has he really stood out?
That's an honest question.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri May 18, 2018 1:39 pm

He's had his chance in previous tournaments and contributed nothing

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri May 18, 2018 1:44 pm

When we played arsenal recently you could see he had a quality that non of our players possess, apart from Defour perhaps.

whiffa · Post by **whiffa** » Fri May 18, 2018 2:00 pm

Blackrod wrote:This is what management is about. Southgate has gone up in my book.It is a refreshing change for England to actually pick form players and to think more about the system instead of recalling the old guard that have failed.

Picking in form players like Welbeck?

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri May 18, 2018 2:08 pm

Biggest weakness for me in the formation Southgate's likely to go with is we are too one dimensional and predictable in the two player midfield holding role.

We've got a squad of 23 players to cover a likely 4 or 5 matches so chucking in a Wiltshire or a Lallana who could play alongside Dier or Henderson and make something happen against the two crap teams in our group doesn't seem to much like a risk too me

You need the majority of your squad to be consistent, reliable and play as a good unit but in a short international tournament like this you need some wild cards who on their day can add a spark and be the difference

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri May 18, 2018 2:12 pm

Spijed wrote:When we played arsenal recently you could see he had a quality that non of our players possess, apart from Defour perhaps.

Spending half of every season out injured?

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Fri May 18, 2018 7:23 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Has he really stood out?
That's an honest question.

I think so. Especially in the Europa League semi final. Arsenal looked capable of getting goals throughout the game until he was unwisely taken off instead of Ozil and Ramsay who were both ineffective. After he left the field, Arsenal looked a spent force.

He should be going. Southgate is making a mistake.

iw1961 · Post by **iw1961** » Fri May 18, 2018 7:38 pm

I would have taken him before Dier whom I just don't get. Wilshire is the sort who does seem to be able to drive things forward and inject a sense of urgency into proceedings. On his game he is the best attacking midfielder we have. Problem is he is one sneeze away from 6 weeks injured.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Fri May 18, 2018 8:31 pm

Southgate obviously has a problem with him. He sent him home from the last friendlies with a minor knock (supposedly) but he was back playing a full ninety minutes for Arsenal a couple of days later. I don’t like Southgate. I preferred BFS, and that’s saying something.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Sat May 19, 2018 12:58 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Has Wilshere played 30 games for the full 90 mins or does that 30 appearances comprise of sub appearances and partial games?

Also, how many games has he stood out over the likes of Ozil, Ramsey etc?

He started 12 Prem games all season and barely lasted 90 mins in any of them. He didn’t feature at all in 5 of Arsenal’s final 6 league games.

The media hype that surrounds this lad isn’t founded on minutes on the pitch that’s for sure.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sat May 19, 2018 6:10 am

I'm lost now with Wilshere, Wilshire and Wiltshire all apparently missing out.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Sat May 19, 2018 6:16 am

I’m more disappointed that Lallana and Shelvey aren’t in it. I can’t see the question that Danny Wellbeck or a 5th wing back is the answer to. Whereas we could seriously need creative players when the games are close.

Cubanclaret · Post by **Cubanclaret** » Sat May 19, 2018 7:56 am

I think he should be going and we seem to be very light in central midfield. Danny Rose has hardly played this season and there’s no need for him and Young when Delph is there (three players who have played lwb this season).

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat May 19, 2018 9:48 am

Delph should stick to ceramics.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat May 19, 2018 10:58 am

dermotdermot wrote:Southgate obviously has a problem with him. He sent him home from the last friendlies with a minor knock (supposedly) but he was back playing a full ninety minutes for Arsenal a couple of days later. I don’t like Southgate. I preferred BFS, and that’s saying something.

So you prefer a dinosaur to someone who is actually trying to move our game forward?

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat May 19, 2018 10:59 am

i really don’t get the hype around shelvey either.
He has not exactly set the premier league on fire this season.

His stats read:
32 apps
1 goal
3 assists
71% pass accuracy

If that was any other international team he wouldn’t not be considered in a million years.

I wouldn’t even put him in a burnley XI let alone the england team.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat May 19, 2018 11:32 am

Delph has been mentioned a few times, but I'm surprised that people are surprised. He started more than half of City's games this season and has been impressive - if he hadn't been, then Guardiola wouldn't have selected him as often. He's the sort of player who fits England's style of play - getting the ball forward quickly. Passing is one of his strenghs (obviously, playing for City) and it's this that we need when undoubtedly counter attacking against the stronger sides out there.

Also, given how we'll be playing 3 central defenders, he'll be useful outwide too.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Sat May 19, 2018 11:49 am

I don't think there's necessarily hype around shelvey, or Wilshire really. In fact most have a negative opinion I'd say. It's just a reflection of how pants the pool of England midfielders are that these guys are getting mentioned as unfortunates to miss out. We've a huge lack of creativity in the middle.
It's ok asking if Wilshire stood out playing with the likes of ozil and Ramsay, but they're Welsh and German! Reading Germany's list of available midfielders makes you realise how much we need some talent coming through in that area.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat May 19, 2018 12:31 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:i really don’t get the hype around shelvey either.
He has not exactly set the premier league on fire this season.

His stats read:
32 apps
1 goal
3 assists
71% pass accuracy

If that was any other international team he wouldn’t not be considered in a million years.

I wouldn’t even put him in a burnley XI let alone the england team.

Shelvey is a class act. Our only midfielder apart from maybe Wilshere with the confidence and ability to pick the ball up from the centre backs and use it effectively. As oppose to Dier and Henderson who'll receive the ball, hold onto it about 5 seconds too long then pass it 5 yards sideways anyway. Vardy could have been absolute dynamite with someone like Shelvey behind him, especially if we get far enough to face the better teams who'll be happy to leave lots of space in behind.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sat May 19, 2018 1:50 pm

A waste of space with a totally inflated opinion of himself and his spasmodic ability.
Looked good against us recently but if I was running past non tackling players ,I would look England standard.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat May 19, 2018 3:13 pm

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