Pope In....Tarky Out

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed May 16, 2018 2:46 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:Not much wrong with that squad. Welbeck has a very good record for England. Guessing Hart said a thanks but no thanks to being on standby if Heaton is there.

I would think that Southgate would not have made that offer to Hart. He has no international future at all and struggling for a club future.

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed May 16, 2018 2:47 pm

MACCA wrote:I fully agree

But Mee being out has had zero effect on Tarky or his performances some will say....

Tarky looks lost without Mee. The exact same way Keane looks lost without Mee.

Top quality defender is Ben Mee, if he was a better footballer he'd be one of the best Centre halves in the world, fortunately for us he lacks with his footballing talent.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed May 16, 2018 2:49 pm

ClaretinMyBlood wrote:Never understand how Tarky & Mee's defensive partnership can be overlooked at international level.
Why not have a ready built defensive unit that plays week in week out, surely it would make life easier and the defence more solid.

If they were playing together at one of the big 6 they would be nailed on starters for England.

The fabled Arsenal back 5 barely played together for England, I think it was only once or twice.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed May 16, 2018 2:49 pm

Not to be controversial, but..... im kind of glad Tarks isnt in.

He has a shirt-pull, or an elbow in him, and reacting or doing that in an England shirt can lead to players getting aggro at each away ground the season after a tournament. If this saves him from that possibility, i'll not complain.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed May 16, 2018 2:51 pm

Fantastic and deserved for Pope and fingers crossed for Heaton (not at Pope expense) and Tarkowski. Also spare a thought for Cork, who must wonder how a 'hardly ever plays and then it's as a makeshift left back' Delph, can nake the squad ahead of him.

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed May 16, 2018 2:54 pm

IanMcL wrote:Fantastic and deserved for Pope and fingers crossed for Heaton (not at Pope expense) and Tarkowski. Also spare a thought for Cork, who must wonder how a 'hardly ever plays and then it's as a makeshift left back' Delph, can nake the squad ahead of him.

Makes you wonder how he got selected and given game time at the end of last year, only to be overlooked ever since.

Cork deserves a decent break though after the leg work he's put in for us this season, I'd sooner have him fully rested and fit for us next season!

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:01 pm

Delphi and Loftus Cheek are very lucky to be anywhere near the squad

Shame for Corky but he could do with a break and Tarka must wonder what he needs to do to get ahead of some of those old cart horses at the back

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:05 pm

Tarks and Mee play as a pair in a four that becomes a 6 when under pressure - England have determined to play a 3 that becomes a 5 - quite a different skill set that requires pace and skill as well as defensive capability, especially one on one

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:09 pm

England always struggle to defend against the elite because we pick defenders whose week in week out bread and butter isn't defending. Stones Walker Jones Cahill etc generally stroll around game after game in the premier league against teams with 10 men behind the ball and then when they come up against the big boys at international level they look ******* clueless. And as said above we play one up front so why even take Welbeck surely a Shelvey or a Willshire type to unpick a defence would be better or failing that Andy Carroll so we can launch it for ten minutes.

Mattster · Post by **Mattster** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:14 pm

MACCA wrote:He wasn't shifted defensive partners, or sides to accomodqate a championship defender though. Tarky was babysitting and thinking for 2 defenders at once, and his performances showed that.

Partnerships and continuity shouldn't be underestimated in the defensive unit, him and Ben Mee had a fantastic understanding.
Sadly Tarky's was disrupted in a few different areas, and I'd imagine should it not have been, he would have been going to Russia.

Yes but Maguire has been woeful without such disruption and still goes. Which suggests to me it's nothing to do with a recent dip in form.

And I don't think Tarks has been particularly poor the past 4- 6 weeks. Had a pretty flawless performance against Bouremouth IMO with Long and Lowton 100% responsible for the goals conceded.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:18 pm

Lowton picked his pass against Bournemouth, it was Cork who gave the ball away

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:19 pm

Tarks can't forever be mentioned without pointing out that "he's far better with Mee next to him".

He has to be judged on his own qualities, or failings.
Just lately, Mee or not, he's been poor.

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:22 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Tarks and Mee play as a pair in a four that becomes a 6 when under pressure - England have determined to play a 3 that becomes a 5 - quite a different skill set that requires pace and skill as well as defensive capability, especially one on one

No need to play with a back three though is there, our players historically as we play as a nation aren't cut out for that style of football.

Any England manager would be better off attempting to play a Dyche style of football at a major tournament, than trying to go and play attractive football.

Keep games tight, nick a draw or one or two goal win, that see's you progress.

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Is Maguire that much better than Tarky? I saw an Evening Standard (yes) article with four journos naming their 23s and Maguire was in them all with Tarky nowhere.

MarkGreen · Post by **MarkGreen** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:30 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:Not to be controversial, but..... im kind of glad Tarks isnt in.

He has a shirt-pull, or an elbow in him, and reacting or doing that in an England shirt can lead to players getting aggro at each away ground the season after a tournament. If this saves him from that possibility, i'll not complain.

But what if he has a blinder?

You cant wish for him to stay out of the squad just because you don't want people chanting to him! What about pope? What if he has a shocker and has to stand with his back to a mob of fans shouting 'ooooooooooh, you're Sh*t' for at least 45 mins every single game.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:33 pm

MarkGreen wrote:But what if he has a blinder?

You cant wish for him to stay out of the squad just because you don't want people chanting to him! What about pope? What if he has a shocker and has to stand with his back to a mob of fans shouting 'ooooooooooh, you're Sh*t' for at least 45 mins every single game.

Pope is 3rd choice keeper, he won't get a game.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:35 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:Not to be controversial, but..... im kind of glad Tarks isnt in.

He has a shirt-pull, or an elbow in him, and reacting or doing that in an England shirt can lead to players getting aggro at each away ground the season after a tournament. If this saves him from that possibility, i'll not complain.

also saves us from hearing 90 mins of our fans singing 'you let your country down' at him every week.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:38 pm

Maguire was always going to be in the squad - the way he has played for England since making his debut he is a probable starter in the first eleven never mind the squad.

The "surprise" really is Gary Cahill being picked before Tarks. I say surprise in that he has not been a first team regular for Conte this year and his legs do seem to be going a bit. That said - if Southgate would have been at the Turf for the recent Chelsea game then there would have been no contest as to who he would pick. Tarks got the runaround all night and Cahill had an excellent game.

I think though in a squad where he has not been afraid to go for new inexperienced players rather than some of the old guard you would have thought he would have gone for Tarks before Cahill. Plus looking at style of play if he wants to play out from the back he has Maguire and Stones who can do this whereas Jones and Cahill are more old fashioned defenders. He also has Walker who can do a bit of both as a 3rd centre back. I don`t see Jones and Cahill getting a game if he is going to play football from the back like he has which is another reason why you think he could have picked Tarks.

All is not lost yet. With his injury record Jones could easily get injured in the cup final or the England friendlies (not that i am wishing it upon the ugly ex bas-tard !!)

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:43 pm

claretburns wrote:Only 5 of the 23 play for teams outside the "big 6" so much for picking players on form rather than who they play for.

The inclusion of Pope, Maguire and Loftus Cheek blows your stupid theory out of the water.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Wed May 16, 2018 3:57 pm

cutsy123 wrote:Tarky, by far the best CB in england this season and not even taken

He's a reserve, but what a joke

I think his form towards the end of the season has gone against him personally he has been below par and poor in some games.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:02 pm

MACCA wrote:Possibly the only real chance of doing so, is letting Pope go out on loan for 12 months, as long as the team is in the premier league, and he will be number 1. It is a win win for both us and the players. He has a 3 year deal i think, theres no need to rush things.
Nice head ache to have, but not beyond posability that he could move to the likes of Wolves, Cardiff, Villa, Newcastle, Watford and make them stronger.

With a recall clause I’d hope

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:03 pm

If Kane gets crocked, we look flippin' thin up front.. Welbeck?

The squad generally looks decent and the midfield looks better than I expected - if we can get the best out of Lingard, Alli and Sterling we may do better than I expected...plenty of youthfulness and pace in the 23.

- and our group doesn't look bad at all.

Come on England..

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm

ClaretinMyBlood wrote:Never understand how Tarky & Mee's defensive partnership can be overlooked at international level.
Why not have a ready built defensive unit that plays week in week out, surely it would make life easier and the defence more solid.

If they were playing together at one of the big 6 they would be nailed on starters for England.

Because Southgate is going 3 at the back. Walker is seen as a FB but for me it was his succesful selection for the last international that has kept Tarks out.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:20 pm

TVC15 wrote:That said - if Southgate would have been at the Turf for the recent Chelsea game then there would have been no contest as to who he would pick. Tarks got the runaround all night and Cahill had an excellent game.

It's a fair point, players for the 'big 6' do get some stick but the scrutiny they're under is huge. Watching Cahill in that game - who I'd heard described as struggling and past it in the media - he looked by far the best defender on the pitch.

A great moment for Cork and Tarks being called up this season but I'm happy they'll both be getting a break this summer. Think how many miles Cork has run, every minute of every game isn't it for him? Anyway, I'm supporting Iceland.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:27 pm

Southgate seems to be in love with Heaton.

I'd feel confident Tom would be No 1 if he had stayed fit, and not just for us.

Great news Popey though.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:29 pm

piston broke wrote:With a recall clause I’d hope

Nah, we have Legzdins

northernpowerhouse · Post by **northernpowerhouse** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:37 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:If Kane gets crocked, we look flippin' thin up front.. Welbeck?

Errr..... Jamie Vardy? On fire at the moment, twenty league goals, about half of them against the top six. You could make the argument he should be starting ahead of Kane.

And then there's Rashford, one of the best young strikers in the world.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:39 pm

KRBFC wrote:The inclusion of Pope, Maguire and Loftus Cheek blows your stupid theory out of the water.

Chelsea's Loftus Cheek?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed May 16, 2018 4:39 pm

Braindead wrote:Chelsea's Loftus Cheek?

but has played for Palace all year long

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed May 16, 2018 5:34 pm

KRBFC wrote:but has played for Palace all year long

He's definitely a Chelsea player.
Don't make yourself look silly (I know it's hard)

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed May 16, 2018 6:35 pm

Looking at that midfield I'm thinking of going all AblueClaret and saying that Tarky should be playing in midfield.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed May 16, 2018 7:35 pm

in a completely selfish way it's good news that Tarks hasn't been picked. If he goes then I doubt he'll be available for our Europa League qualification round (can't believe I just typed Europa League!)

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Wed May 16, 2018 7:42 pm

That midfield is laughable compared to the best teams in the world. Even at their current age, a trio of Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard would run any combination of that lot close.

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Wed May 16, 2018 8:29 pm

Fingers crossed that Pickford and Butland make it to Russia. Lindegaard debut in Europa league?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed May 16, 2018 8:49 pm

ClaretinMyBlood wrote:He's definitely a Chelsea player.
Don't make yourself look silly (I know it's hard)

but his form for Palace has got him in the England squad, fk all to do with him being a Chelsea player

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed May 16, 2018 9:22 pm

KRBFC wrote:but his form for Palace has got him in the England squad, fk all to do with him being a Chelsea player

Been below par at Palace. Not international form at all.

Plus.... He's a Chelsea player. End of, stop being stupid Kev.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Wed May 16, 2018 9:36 pm

Cahill played well against us and had a good end of season

Tarks missed Mee towards the end and had some "average" games during that time

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed May 16, 2018 10:20 pm

ClaretinMyBlood wrote:Been below par at Palace. Not international form at all.

Plus.... He's a Chelsea player. End of, stop being stupid Kev.

Anyone at Palace will tell you he's been anything but below par, the majority of the squad has little experience including the keeper from our club. Did you watch the England/Germany game, Loftus Cheek was probably the best player on the pitch.

You picked Loftus Cheek in YOUR England squad on a different topic you absolute lemon, hilariously you also picked Cork and Barnes

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 pm

KRBFC wrote:Anyone at Palace will tell you he's been anything but below par, the majority of the squad has little experience including the keeper from our club. Did you watch the England/Germany game, Loftus Cheek was probably the best player on the pitch.

You picked Loftus Cheek in YOUR England squad on a different topic you absolute lemon, hilariously you also picked Cork and Barnes

All I'm saying is he is a Chelsea player Kev, stating fact for you as you don't seem to be able to grasp that.

He's in my squad based on his last England performance.
Guessing you haven't seen the stats for Jack Cork? Even SkySports say Corky should be a starter.
I'd have Barnes on the plane ahead of Welbeck every day of the week.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed May 16, 2018 10:49 pm

ClaretinMyBlood wrote:All I'm saying is he is a Chelsea player Kev, stating fact for you as you don't seem to be able to grasp that.

He's in my squad based on his last England performance.
Guessing you haven't seen the stats for Jack Cork? Even SkySports say Corky should be a starter.
I'd have Barnes on the plane ahead of Welbeck every day of the week.

I said he was in the England squad because of his form for Palace, you said ''he's been below par at Palace and has no international form'' then backtrack when you get found out for actually having him in your England squad and claim ''he's in based on his only performance for England''.

You picked a man with ''no international form'' based on his form for England HAHAHAHAHA

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed May 16, 2018 11:30 pm

KRBFC wrote:I said he was in the England squad because of his form for Palace, you said ''he's been below par at Palace and has no international form'' then backtrack when you get found out for actually having him in your England squad and claim ''he's in based on his only performance for England''.

You picked a man with ''no international form'' based on his form for England HAHAHAHAHA

Jesus you're thick Kev.

I said his Palace form was not international form. I selected him in my squad based on his last performance for England.
Some players can turn it on for country, Same reason I used to like Andros Townsend for England, but thought he was gash a club level week in week out.

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:21 am

I am convinced that Tarks has been carrying a knock for 5 or 6 weeks and if picked he might not have been able to produce his best form. He has time on his side (long term) and if he does get called into the 23 due to injury to someone else he might have had enough recovery time to return to full fitness. Lets hope that rest and light training aid his physical recovery.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Fri May 18, 2018 8:00 pm

KRBFC wrote:The inclusion of Pope, Maguire and Loftus Cheek blows your stupid theory out of the water.

You're absolutely spot on KRBFC. You mention 3 players out of a squad of 23, and only Maguire of the 3 having a realistic chance of playing, blows my comment, not theory, completely out of the water doesn't it?

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri May 18, 2018 8:35 pm

It's hardly surprising that the best players play for the best teams though.