What happened to Manchester City Centre?

BigChaCha · Post by **BigChaCha** » Mon May 21, 2018 9:03 am

Me and the wife have enjoyed a good few weekends away in the Manchester City Centre over the last few years and have really enjoyed it and always felt pretty safe walking around.

We do have a bit of an affinity and an emotional attachment I guess because my wife and daughter where inside the Manchester Arena for the terrorist attack so it was sad to see the sights we saw this weekend!

They've always had a homeless problem which doesn't bother me because they are normally sound and like a bit of banter but most of them where really drugged up and the whole atmosphere was scary tbh and felt like something out of Shaun of the Dead! ..... I don't know if it was the sun bringing them out but it's put me off going to the Manchester city centre ever again!

Every 5 seconds it was "got any spare change mate" ..... They weren't just the homeless but guys who where in some zombie like state on some kind of weird drug ....., thugs, chavs, drunks, druggies absolutely everywhere. Fighting, arguing and a munter taking her knockers out and shaking them in my face! ...... I've never seen anything like it.

We had a long walk from the restaurant to the hotel and the wife looked at me half way back to the hotel and said "I really hope we can make it back alive"

On our way from the hotel to the railway station yesterday morning there were needle's and drug addicts kits all down the side of the road and I've never seen so much rubbish on the streets in my life along with random people not just homeless sleeping but totally out of it laying everywhere including on/in, cars, benches, a fountain and even in a small tree! Then we saw 2 guys laying on top of each other on a bench covered in puke and all sorts of other shite!

I noticed on the morning after that there where nowhere near as many homeless sleeping out so I'm guessing most of them the day before where professional beggers and i'll get a lot of stick for this but i'll never understand why people keep giving them food and money. They are just feeding a monster that is out of control. I guarantee if nobody gave them food or money they would soon find somewhere to live! Most of the money given to them dose not go on food anyway and where do they get the dogs that they all seem to have now for the sympathy vote?

The amount of bin divers we saw too was unbelievable, some of them really aggressive too if you got in their way. I've never seen anything like this abroad or even in any other major city in the UK! There was quite a lot of travelers from abroad in the city who must of thought wtf and I honestly feel a bit ashamed to be British today!

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon May 21, 2018 9:14 am

more people took the blue pill than the red pill...

you're not alone in noticing this, I too think many town and city centres are becoming worse for this type of issue - I see it in many places.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 9:22 am

It's been ongoing for a while now. Last time I went with the missus it was just very sad. It was winter, below freezing and nobody out on the streets was there from choice.

I didn't feel threatened and certainly had no contempt for the poor f***ers lying around half-dead. I'm sure there's loads of people who know more about the situation and the reasons behind it but as an infrequent visitor to Manchester it's a noticeably worse problem year on year. You hear reports of similar issues in very major town and city but it's on a way bigger scale there than in Sheffield for example.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Mon May 21, 2018 9:28 am

BigChaCha wrote: I've never seen anything like this abroad or even in any other major city in the UK!

Go to Bristol, massive, massive problem there. Bath isn't good either.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Mon May 21, 2018 9:40 am

"Zombie like state", you are describing the effects of the drug 'spice'.
I assume you were in the area of Piccadilly Gardens?
Yes, I know what you mean, I tend to avoid going into town unless I can't avoid it.
Andy Burnham is onto the homeless problem, here are some my reasons for the increase

1/. People from outside the area come here when they hit rock bottom.
2/. The introduction of Universal Credit. MP's/everyone should try and survive 13 weeks without any money coming in!
3/. The increase in zero hours contracts, means no work no pay. So don't break your arm if you a waiter. You'll be told to claim UC.
13 weeks is a long time for a landlord to be without money! Shelter here used to deal with 2 or 3 eviction notices per court session.
It's now up to 30.
4/. Stopping the payment of housing benefit directly to landlords and giving it to the claimant, has increased homelessness.
5/. Is it any wonder that living outdoors leads to drink/drug problems? I think I'd drink too if I was trying to live on the streets, it's not usually this warm.
6/. Cuts to mental health services.
7/. Cuts to police budgets

I volunteer in a food bank, I am regularly reduced to tears. It is like the Victorian times all over again.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 9:43 am

Lots of people are struggling these days.

I'm not sure what we can do about it, as anyone who is doing ok appears to be very reluctant to pay for the services that are needed to minimise this problem.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:02 am

what happened?

tory austerity. manchester is one of the most deprived councils in the country and has seen its spending power per person cut around 26 times more than the wealthiest council.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:21 am

It's Spice. One thinks it is like cannabis but it is not. One thinks one can handle it but one can't. The country has been put under an enormous strain by the Internet and immigration. it's a combination punch.

I think a solution is drugs-legalization. A lot of the chemicals to make Spice come from China. They want to destroy the West. All that the OP states is the effects of Spice.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:29 am

The internet and immigration have literally nothing to do with spice.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:35 am

I visit Manchester City Centre at least once a month socially and I have noticed over the last few months less beggers on the streets. The city council are really getting to grips with the problem has the new mayor promised.

Manchester is a thriving City with World wide investment, to say it is deprived is complete socialist fantasy, you obviously don't get out much

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:36 am

Get yourself to Liverpool, I think it beats Manchester hands down these days for a day/night out.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 am

Thatcher.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:44 am

Troll on a pencil, have you ever thought of something called societal pressure?

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:46 am

Liverpool is another great City. The North West of England have two of the most thieving cities in Europe, you only have to look at the sky line to see the sky scrapers flying up. The Chinese are pumping billions of money into the property market and when we finally realese the shackles of the EU, even more outside investment will come

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:47 am

I think you need to check your spelling there Top!

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:51 am

The EU provided billions of funding to regenerate Liverpool and Manchester.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... e-10925208
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-11020085

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:53 am

Beetham Tower is owned by a European as well.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon May 21, 2018 10:57 am

Top Claret wrote:I visit Manchester City Centre at least once a month socially and I have noticed over the last few months less beggers on the streets. The city council are really getting to grips with the problem has the new mayor promised.

Manchester is a thriving City with World wide investment, to say it is deprived is complete socialist fantasy, you obviously don't get out much

well done on enjoying your monthly **** up in the big city, although as i live and work in manchester, i'd suggest its you who doesn't get out here much.

its the 5th most deprived council in england according to the current somewhat non-socialist government. you really don't have to go far out of the centre to see it for yourself.

yes the city centre is brilliant and thriving. that's where the money is and that's why the social problems such as begging and homelessness are really prominent, those people gravitate in.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:21 am

BigChaCha wrote:felt like something out of Shaun of the Dead! ..... I don't know if it was the sun bringing them out but it's put me off going to the Manchester city centre ever again!

Described it exactly as I did to the Mrs.

We go to Manchester all the time. Almost feel like we live in an extended part of it. A lot of the time we went just for something to do - walk around, maybe get a bit of food. Even just have a coffee.

Its become an absolute **** hole and its getting worse.

I walked back from Pic Station after the west ham away match to my car with my 11 year old nephew. Fair enough it was late at night but his eyes must have been well and truly opened that night. In a way I was glad he saw it. But its disgraceful.

A few weeks after I walked from same area to Deansgate with my mrs. Same. I counted how many people were completely out of it and I gave up at 25.

Its happening elsewhere. Birmingham is awful. Edinburgh was surprisingly bad everytime ive been recently. Burnley has it on a smaller scale. But it would appear nothing is being done to sort it out - certainly nothing is working if they are.

In the nicest possible way I am like the OP. Its putting me off going. I don't want to see it and I can't be arsed being hounded by people off their heads.

Council need to do two things.

1) Make sure the genuine homeless and needy have somewhere to go.
2) Police those that don't go. If I was completely off my head, hassling people, urinating in the street, taking drugs in public etc etc I would get locked up or an ASBO!

I am trying not to judge everyone as the same. But the cities are an absolute mess and we are letting it happen.

2 years ago I would have loved to live in Manchester city centre. Now I can't be arsed visiting.

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:25 am

Recently attended a talk by Andy Burnham, like most politicians (or former) he talks the talk...however I think he will walk the walk.

Incidentally I was in Manchester on Saturday afternoon evening with my wife and young niece, never felt in danger. Over the years you can not help but notice the change on the streets though. A number of things have obviously gone wrong.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:34 am

if you don't provide the councils with money to do stuff, then stuff doesn't get done.

Its not rocket science.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:37 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:The EU provided billions of funding to regenerate Liverpool and Manchester.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... e-10925208
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-11020085

When you're a NET contributor, the EU hasn't paid a thing!

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:39 am

Burnham’s main point was London/Parliament doesn’t care much for anything outside of London.

Call it what you want, pot/kettle, playing to a crowd but it’s hard to disagree that many Northern towns do not get the support we need or deserve. Add in the party political lines funding is dished out and some areas suffer further.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:45 am

Its ok, that will all change after Brexit.

I can just see the residents of some leafy Sussex suburb going "thank god our money is going to help regenerate the north*"

*other deprived areas are available, sadly there are quite a few in this country

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:49 am

It is playing to a crowd. Homelessness aside the cities are a million years ahead of where they once were. Jobs, infrastructure, architecture, social activities etc are all great.

Politics is just about blaming the other party. Boring.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:57 am

“2 of the most thieving cities”
Spot on there but Liverpool still top dog !!

Worked in Manchester all my adult life so I also have a soft spot for it.
I was there yesterday to watch the runs - the amount of new building work going on is incredible. Don’t let the city centre fool you as to the serious social problems in the area. Building half a million pound apartments for the contractors and consultants who live there during the week is not a reflection of the vast majority of people who live in the area.

How many people who spend time and money in the city centre actually live in a Manchester post code ? Very few.

These problems are however not just in Manchester. You will see them in many big cities in the U.K. and across the world. Never far from a ghetto

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon May 21, 2018 11:59 am

Same as many cities isn't it?
Budgets went to expensive homes and not towards those in need.

Chuck in budget cuts and this is the result.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon May 21, 2018 12:21 pm

TVC15 wrote:“2 of the most thieving cities”
Spot on there but Liverpool still top dog !!

Well, apart from Manchester having higher crime rates than Liverpool of course!

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon May 21, 2018 12:48 pm

I was in Manchester early a couple of years ago dropping my wife off for a hen party. I saw a minibus dropping beggars of at different spots around the footy museum and other parts of Deansgate. A lot of them are professional beggars.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon May 21, 2018 12:55 pm

A lot of 'professional beggars' are victims of modern slavery, and the minibus dropping them off is owned by the gangmasters the poor sods have to give their takings to.

In return the beggars get a 6'x2' space in a caravan to sleep in, along with 15 others.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon May 21, 2018 12:56 pm

Luxury, I used to dream of living in a 6'x2' space in a caravan!

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:02 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:"Zombie like state", you are describing the effects of the drug 'spice'.
I assume you were in the area of Piccadilly Gardens?
Yes, I know what you mean, I tend to avoid going into town unless I can't avoid it.
Andy Burnham is onto the homeless problem, here are some my reasons for the increase

1/. People from outside the area come here when they hit rock bottom.
2/. The introduction of Universal Credit. MP's/everyone should try and survive 13 weeks without any money coming in!
3/. The increase in zero hours contracts, means no work no pay. So don't break your arm if you a waiter. You'll be told to claim UC.
13 weeks is a long time for a landlord to be without money! Shelter here used to deal with 2 or 3 eviction notices per court session.
It's now up to 30.
4/. Stopping the payment of housing benefit directly to landlords and giving it to the claimant, has increased homelessness.
5/. Is it any wonder that living outdoors leads to drink/drug problems? I think I'd drink too if I was trying to live on the streets, it's not usually this warm.
6/. Cuts to mental health services.
7/. Cuts to police budgets

I volunteer in a food bank, I am regularly reduced to tears. It is like the Victorian times all over again.

Everything you say is true and it is awful but there are a couple of things I would add. Firstly the reason that there are less around in winter is that there are organised gangs who are not homeless but who are 'professional beggars' in the summer. I'm not saying this is the case mainly but it certainly is happening.
Secondly you mention the universal credit. The situation with this is a disgrace. My daughter is a part-time teacher (salaried not zero hours) and for reasons I won't bore anyone with she is temporarily alone with two young kids. The switch to universal credit has affected her very badly with regard to childcare costs, which are supposed to partly help people who want to work and is much vaunted by the government. The problem with it now is that you have to pay out for the childcare then claim it back, which has proved like pulling teeth from a toothless man for her, with several arguments and 'computer say no' situations. She was even asked one day when she called about security and she failed; the questions were her name, her postcode and her age. When she said to the brain dead idiot at the other end they must have typed it in wrong she replied that my daughter had answered the questions wrong. Age, postcode and name??? Only someone with no brain would get any of that wrong but the idiot was having none of it and said she would have to start the process all over again, it is obvious to anyone that she made a typing error but there are apparently no second chances. It took weeks of arguing to get it sorted and only a very understanding nursery owner stopped her from losing the childcare and effectively being made unemployed. If you need help with childcare who decided that you have to pay it first then take weeks of dealing with no-brainers to get it back. Surely it needs to be an up-front payment? This is just our experience of the disaster that is universal credit.

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 1:23 pm

bfcjg wrote:I was in Manchester early a couple of years ago dropping my wife off for a hen party. I saw a minibus dropping beggars of at different spots around the footy museum and other parts of Deansgate. A lot of them are professional beggars.

I know someone who lives near curry mile who regularly sees the van dropping people off.
I was truely shocked when I was informed the sand dog is a mold with a think layer of sand

CarlesTheClaretPuyol · Post by **CarlesTheClaretPuyol** » Mon May 21, 2018 3:43 pm

"Fighting, arguing and a munter taking her knockers out and shaking them in my face! ...... I've never seen anything like it."

Where was this?

Asking for a friend.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon May 21, 2018 3:44 pm

BigChaCha wrote: Fighting, arguing and a munter taking her knockers out and shaking them in my face!

Enough about your wife

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon May 21, 2018 4:12 pm

It's a very sad sight. I went to London this weekend and saw people in their sleeping bags everywhere. One older guy did ask for money and I gave him a few pound coins. Was good to see him immediately go buy a hot drink so let's not stereotype them all as alcoholics and druggies.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon May 21, 2018 4:18 pm

I was there last Thursday, from 12 'til 6pm and was perfectly happy wandering about and felt
secure and not under threat in any way. Sure, there was the occassional kn0bhead knocking about
in certain locations.

I love Manchester, except the footy teams.

I am there tomorrow from about 2pm until 11pm wandering about and attending
a Nils Lofgren gig at the Bridgewater Hall in the evening. I currently have no problem
parking at the former Boddington's Brewery car park and walking to the city centre
and from the gig at around 10.30pm.

Am I putting myself in danger, does anyone think ?

If so what is my alternative please ?

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon May 21, 2018 4:28 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:Am I putting myself in danger, does anyone think ?

not at all.

fair walk though!

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 4:35 pm

Lofgren, what an axeman.
Shine Silently is awesome.

Enjoy it, Funkydrummer.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon May 21, 2018 4:36 pm

The number of rough sleepers in London has increased hugely. All throughout the winter there were tents and sleeping bags throughout the centre with some areas with dozens of people. It's a long time since it has been this bad.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon May 21, 2018 4:43 pm

I personally don't give money to anyone on the street, but I do collect the McDonald's drink loyalty cards and hand them out. Most people are grateful, although more often than I like, I get told to "f#ck off and give me money instead".

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon May 21, 2018 6:25 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:I personally don't give money to anyone on the street, but I do collect the McDonald's drink loyalty cards and hand them out. Most people are grateful, although more often than I like, I get told to "f#ck off and give me money instead".

Had the same when I bought one some clothes and bedding and food and water.

Brother had the same when he bought some food etc too.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon May 21, 2018 6:25 pm

Tell a lie. He actually asked for the receipt

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Mon May 21, 2018 6:42 pm

Huge and visible problem in my experience in London, Manchester and Glasgow over the last 2 years. Doesn’t seem to have happened in Leeds yet to the same extent.

No doubt there are multiple causes but benefit caps, austerity, spice must be all factors.

The last Labour government had many failings but it seemed to virtually eradicate street homelessness.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon May 21, 2018 7:30 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:I was there last Thursday, from 12 'til 6pm and was perfectly happy wandering about and felt
secure and not under threat in any way. Sure, there was the occassional kn0bhead knocking about
in certain locations.

I love Manchester, except the footy teams.

I am there tomorrow from about 2pm until 11pm wandering about and attending
a Nils Lofgren gig at the Bridgewater Hall in the evening. I currently have no problem
parking at the former Boddington's Brewery car park and walking to the city centre
and from the gig at around 10.30pm.

Am I putting myself in danger, does anyone think ?

If so what is my alternative please ?

Your alternative would be a short stint on the metrolink to Victoria or Exchange square and then a short hop from there

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon May 21, 2018 7:38 pm

Ive recently been in los angeles. If you think its bad in manchester you wont comprehended what you see ober there. Its crazy. Campsites by the roads, homeless sleeping across the pavements. But they have fun with it. Numerous funny signs about. “Need money for cocaine and bad bitches” was a favourite.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon May 21, 2018 7:57 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:Lofgren, what an axeman.
Shine Silently is awesome.

Enjoy it, Funkydrummer.

Cheers Electro, really appreciate that.

Looking forward to it immensely.

Here's Shine Silently for your delectation.
Brilliant version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLzgGKWj6rs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon May 21, 2018 8:18 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:not at all.

fair walk though!

I need a decent walk at my age to sort the old legs out after sitting down
for almost two hours.

It's not that far is it ?

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Mon May 21, 2018 8:25 pm

1 word. SPICE

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Mon May 21, 2018 9:24 pm

Oh have you recently been to Los Angeles - you should have said.