World cup thread

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:10 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Greizmann had the ball. lol. He controlled it with his foot, then was tripped.

Controlled it

Maybe if he was called Andre it may be counted as control. But that certainly wasn’t controlled.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:13 pm

Spijed wrote:The problem with VAR is that:

No-one can define what handball is.
No-one can define what a foul is.
No-one can define what offside is.

That's why it can never work properly in football.

No, it won't work perfectly. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work. As long as the decisions it leads to are an overall improvement on the decisions on the pitch.

There are going to be occassions where VAR leads to a wrong decision, but as long as overall it means fewer wrong decisions on the most important of incidents then that is surely a good thing.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:14 pm

Dyched wrote:Controlled it Maybe if he was called Andre it may be counted as control. But that certainly wasn’t controlled.

That's subjective too

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:16 pm

Australia ran out of steam and France came more prominent to win the game in the end..no push over though.

Goodclaret · Post by **Goodclaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:21 pm

Not a pen in my eyes. The touch by the defender was vital to ensure Griezmann could not get to the ball after it hit his shin, something that wouldn't have happened without the touch. My main issue is the "clear and obvious" ruling in using VAR - surly this thread shows it couldn't possibly be clear and obvious as we all can't agree!? I also think the ref rushed his decision without seeing all angles - we saw what he watched and the views he looked at were very inconclusive.

Anyway, at least all those who said VAR would take away the controversial chat after a game were incorrect

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:42 pm

Seeing that we are talking about VAR at the World Cup what opinions about this:-

Players will be able to receive retrospective red cards during matches being monitored by video assistant referees under rules that come into force on June 1.

The VAR can alert the referee to an off-the-ball incident that was missed even if play has restarted. The offender can be dismissed — even at half-time — for a serious offence such as violent conduct, biting, spitting or extremely offensive gestures. The new rule was brought in for matches being controlled by video referees and will come into force for the World Cup.

Some questions:- What if the player who gets red carded has scored a goal since the original offence?! Is the goal disallowed because he shouldn't have been on the pitch?

What happens if the player in question is substituted before the officials realise? --Does the substitute then have to go off?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:51 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Some questions:- What if the player who gets red carded has scored a goal since the original offence?! Is the goal disallowed because he shouldn't have been on the pitch?

I don't see why. When players get retrospective bans are their on-field contributions removed from the result? No, of course not. But it's better to retrospectively send them off after they've scored a goal than to not send them off at all. Isn't it?

What happens if the player in question is substituted before the officials realise? --Does the substitute then have to go off?

Good question. I think a good idea would be to just return the sub to the bench. But i'd like the answer to this too.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:55 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Seeing that we are talking about VAR at the World Cup what opinions about this:-

Players will be able to receive retrospective red cards during matches being monitored by video assistant referees under rules that come into force on June 1.

The VAR can alert the referee to an off-the-ball incident that was missed even if play has restarted. The offender can be dismissed — even at half-time — for a serious offence such as violent conduct, biting, spitting or extremely offensive gestures. The new rule was brought in for matches being controlled by video referees and will come into force for the World Cup.

Some questions:- What if the player who gets red carded has scored a goal since the original offence?! Is the goal disallowed because he shouldn't have been on the pitch?

What happens if the player in question is substituted before the officials realise? --Does the substitute then have to go off?

Very interesting question, Ashington. Do the new rules say anything about it? I'd guess that the "retrospective red" is just that: player sent off after play has resumed, but VAR was able to show the ref something that allowed the ref to make the sending off decision. And, as play had resumed and the sending off was decided later, the red carded player will have remained on the field until the "retrospective" and so will still have been involved in the game, whether stopping a goal, scoring a goal or anything or nothing else - and all of that will still stand. The only way to do this differently would be to re-set the match clock to the time the red card offence occured, but that would only lead to chaos. Can you imagine asking players to add X more minutes play because one of them picked up a retrospective. Imagine if the offence was in the 1st minute - so the match becomes 134 minutes long.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:So VAR is subjective, and that's why we should go with the single-time, real-time view of the referee. Is that right?

Correct. Why replace a subjective decision and undermine the ref by implementing technology that only offers another subjective view?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:59 pm

Jbg to outshine messi?

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:11 pm

Huge chance missed for Iceland.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:13 pm

Bjarnssons fooked up twice already.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:19 pm

Exciting times, the best player in the world is facing Messi today.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:20 pm

Great goal from aguero. All the focus on messi but what a player aguero is

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:20 pm

Aguero, what a finish.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:24 pm

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Nice get in. Come on.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:24 pm

GET THE **** IN!!!!

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:26 pm

Love it!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:27 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Correct. Why replace a subjective decision and undermine the ref by implementing technology that only offers another subjective view?

Because its a better subjective view. One man's view at pitch level in real time with no replay is inferior to that same person having the benefit of multiple viewings, angles and speeds. I'd think its pretty obvious.

In the past you've sat that the controversy of poor decisions is something we should maintain as a talking point after matches, which only goes to prove that you think there are plenty of poor decisions being made that significantly affect results. I would like the number of poor decisions to reduce, and VAR does that.

You also complain about subjectivity being the reason we shouldn't have it, yet your entire argument is based on subjectivity. Where as objectively VAR reduces the number of refereeing mistakes.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Because its a better subjective view. One man's view at pitch level in real time with no replay is inferior to that same person having the benefit of multiple viewings, angles and speeds. I'd think its pretty obvious.

In the past you've sat that the controversy of poor decisions is something we should maintain as a talking point after matches, which only goes to prove that you think there are plenty of poor decisions being made that significantly affect results. I would like the number of poor decisions to reduce, and VAR does that.

You also complain about subjectivity being the reason we shouldn't have it, yet your entire argument is based on subjectivity. Where as objectively VAR reduces the number of refereeing mistakes.

Ok then

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:43 pm

Definite penalty.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:43 pm

Spijed wrote:The problem with VAR is that:

No-one can define what handball is.
No-one can define what a foul is.
No-one can define what offside is.

That's why it can never work properly in football.

All of those things are defined in the Laws of the Game.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:44 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Definite penalty.

Was the arm in an unnatural position? Was it intentional?

Barry_Chuckle · Post by **Barry_Chuckle** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Fed up of the falling over and feigning injury already

Geoff · Post by **Geoff** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Because its a better subjective view. One man's view at pitch level in real time with no replay is inferior to that same person having the benefit of multiple viewings, angles and speeds. I'd think its pretty obvious.

In the past you've sat that the controversy of poor decisions is something we should maintain as a talking point after matches, which only goes to prove that you think there are plenty of poor decisions being made that significantly affect results. I would like the number of poor decisions to reduce, and VAR does that.

You also complain about subjectivity being the reason we shouldn't have it, yet your entire argument is based on subjectivity. Where as objectively VAR reduces the number of refereeing mistakes.

ZING!

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:46 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:1-1.

Missed the second goal.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Was the arm in an unnatural position? Was it intentional?

How can anyones arm be in an unnatural position. Its attached to the body.

And apart from Maradonna or a blockon the line why would anyone intend to handball it?

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:50 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Because its a better subjective view. One man's view at pitch level in real time with no replay is inferior to that same person having the benefit of multiple viewings, angles and speeds. I'd think its pretty obvious.

In the past you've sat that the controversy of poor decisions is something we should maintain as a talking point after matches, which only goes to prove that you think there are plenty of poor decisions being made that significantly affect results. I would like the number of poor decisions to reduce, and VAR does that.

You also complain about subjectivity being the reason we shouldn't have it, yet your entire argument is based on subjectivity. Where as objectively VAR reduces the number of refereeing mistakes.

So, going off your argument for VAR --why not get rid of the onfield officials and do it all by VAR, by your reasoning this would rid the game of all wrong decisions and we would end up with a perfect scenario and there would be no poor decisions at all.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:52 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:So, going off your argument for VAR --why not get rid of the onfield officials and do it all by VAR, by your reasoning this would rid the game of all wrong decisions and we would end up with a perfect scenario and there would be no poor decisions at all.

Ah, good! A strawman to play with.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:52 pm

Just wanted to post, Imploding Turtle has got VAR just right - and note that I've posted something (independently) that pretty much agrees with IT.

What is this, old guy and young guy agreeing with something about football? What is wrong with the world?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:58 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:How can anyones arm be in an unnatural position. Its attached to the body.

And apart from Maradonna or a blockon the line why would anyone intend to handball it?

By that logic no handball would ever be a foul.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:02 pm

Magnificent effort from Iceland. Their dogged defending very much reminds us of us. I celebrated their goal as I would an England goal, haha.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:10 pm

There we go. Another handball

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:16 pm

Iceland doing a Burnley

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:17 pm

its like watching burnley, they are playing as we do, especially at the back, and doing it extremely well.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:19 pm

Gudmundsson down but think he's okay

Edit - no

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:20 pm

Hes off ffs

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:21 pm

Could have written that!

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:21 pm

Oh look a daego diving in the box... Could have written that too!

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:22 pm

Never a penalty that

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:22 pm

Yesss

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:23 pm

Goalkeeper is a hero.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:23 pm

Only one ronaldo!

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:24 pm

The Hand of Thor!

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:24 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:its like watching burnley, they are playing as we do, especially at the back, and doing it extremely well.

I said exactly that!

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:25 pm

Looking at all that strapping on JBG’s calf I’m not optimistic he will be fit for July, but great for him to play in the World Cup.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:26 pm

Messi's pen record is rubbish

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:27 pm

That Iceland assistant is even more beautiful than George Boyd!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:27 pm

starting_11 wrote:That Iceland assistant is even more beautiful than George Boyd!

Chris Eagles-esque.